Ardent's Power Selection Rules: Ignore? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ardent's Power Selection Rules: Ignore? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Leatherwood
04-14-07, 11:52 AM I'm seriously thinking about playing an Ardent for my next character. The only thing that concerns me is the power selection rules; they seem overly complicated and makes mantle selection difficult. I have asked my DM if I can just select powers from my assumed mantle without delving into having to keep track of which mantles are primary and how many powers I have from each mantle. He hasn't gotten back to me yet about it.

What I really want to know is if my request is reasonable and if opening up the Ardent's power selection would make the class too powerful? I would like some opinions...
FnordBear
04-14-07, 12:04 PM Really depending on what mantles you take it can effectively become a situation where you have to do just that.

Also pay very careful attention to what levels of powers you mantles give you. With poor selection you can wind up with have access to no powers at some levels.
Celsun
04-14-07, 01:35 PM A house rule in my campaign states that ardents can pick any powers they want from their mantles. The rules in CPsi are impractical.
InkBlot
04-14-07, 03:06 PM It realy seems like those convoluted power selection rules were created to reinforce the flavor of the class. Kind of like the monk multiclassing restriction. The power selection rule is there to make sure that you roleplay your ardent's philosophy, by forcing you to select powers that match that philosophy. If you would select most of your powers from your primary mantles anyway, then you probably don't need the rules.

Most of the gamers I know don't need roleplaying training wheels like that. There are some who do. I'd be tempted to relax the rules for those who don't, but if the rest found out then they would cry about favoritism and fairness. I would probably err on the side of appeasement and keep the convoluted rules.
Batshido
04-14-07, 03:33 PM Most of the gamers I know don't need roleplaying training wheels like that. There are some who do. I'd be tempted to relax the rules for those who don't, but if the rest found out then they would cry about favoritism and fairness. I would probably err on the side of appeasement and keep the convoluted rules.

When you break it down, the rules aren't really all that bad anyway. If you plan ahead, you should already know which powers you're going to want when and you can pick your primary mantles to adjust for that. You can switch them every so often, so as long as you look long game, you can pretty much always pick the powers you're going to need anyway.
Leatherwood
04-14-07, 04:13 PM When you break it down, the rules aren't really all that bad anyway. If you plan ahead, you should already know which powers you're going to want when and you can pick your primary mantles to adjust for that. You can switch them every so often, so as long as you look long game, you can pretty much always pick the powers you're going to need anyway.

Yes, I know you can. The question is, does it really affect game balance, or is it just another meaningless hoop you have to traverse just to play this character class?

[Edit: FYI, my DM agreed that I can create my character and ignore those rules.
Knight0
04-14-07, 04:29 PM I spent a few weeks a few months ago, trying to build a good ardent. It can be done. The rules are necessary to maintain the flavor of the class. The powers the ardent have access to justifies the use of this slightly draconian rule. Remember that each domain grants you an ability that is on par with a domain ability or (slightly more powerful on some of them imho), and you get alot more than a cleric does domains. Giving the ardent more all the powers on a mantle could give them more powers known than a psion. The thing with having to have at least as many powers from primary mantles is easy to overcome if you plan correctly and choose the mantles with the most powers on them.

If you do find yourself without the ability to choose any powers you might consider multiclassing at that point to fill the gap.

However I have always thought the class needs a little bit more such as a d8 HD OR Good Fort.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Leatherwood 04-14-07, 11:52 AM	I'm seriously thinking about playing an Ardent for my next character. The only thing that concerns me is the power selection rules; they seem overly complicated and makes mantle selection difficult. I have asked my DM if I can just select powers from my assumed mantle without delving into having to keep track of which mantles are primary and how many powers I have from each mantle. He hasn't gotten back to me yet about it. What I really want to know is if my request is reasonable and if opening up the Ardent's power selection would make the class too powerful? I would like some opinions...
FnordBear 04-14-07, 12:04 PM	Really depending on what mantles you take it can effectively become a situation where you have to do just that. Also pay very careful attention to what levels of powers you mantles give you. With poor selection you can wind up with have access to no powers at some levels.
Celsun 04-14-07, 01:35 PM	A house rule in my campaign states that ardents can pick any powers they want from their mantles. The rules in CPsi are impractical.
InkBlot 04-14-07, 03:06 PM	It realy seems like those convoluted power selection rules were created to reinforce the flavor of the class. Kind of like the monk multiclassing restriction. The power selection rule is there to make sure that you roleplay your ardent's philosophy, by forcing you to select powers that match that philosophy. If you would select most of your powers from your primary mantles anyway, then you probably don't need the rules. Most of the gamers I know don't need roleplaying training wheels like that. There are some who do. I'd be tempted to relax the rules for those who don't, but if the rest found out then they would cry about favoritism and fairness. I would probably err on the side of appeasement and keep the convoluted rules.
Batshido 04-14-07, 03:33 PM	Most of the gamers I know don't need roleplaying training wheels like that. There are some who do. I'd be tempted to relax the rules for those who don't, but if the rest found out then they would cry about favoritism and fairness. I would probably err on the side of appeasement and keep the convoluted rules. When you break it down, the rules aren't really all that bad anyway. If you plan ahead, you should already know which powers you're going to want when and you can pick your primary mantles to adjust for that. You can switch them every so often, so as long as you look long game, you can pretty much always pick the powers you're going to need anyway.
Leatherwood 04-14-07, 04:13 PM	When you break it down, the rules aren't really all that bad anyway. If you plan ahead, you should already know which powers you're going to want when and you can pick your primary mantles to adjust for that. You can switch them every so often, so as long as you look long game, you can pretty much always pick the powers you're going to need anyway. Yes, I know you can. The question is, does it really affect game balance, or is it just another meaningless hoop you have to traverse just to play this character class? [Edit: FYI, my DM agreed that I can create my character and ignore those rules.
Knight0 04-14-07, 04:29 PM	I spent a few weeks a few months ago, trying to build a good ardent. It can be done. The rules are necessary to maintain the flavor of the class. The powers the ardent have access to justifies the use of this slightly draconian rule. Remember that each domain grants you an ability that is on par with a domain ability or (slightly more powerful on some of them imho), and you get alot more than a cleric does domains. Giving the ardent more all the powers on a mantle could give them more powers known than a psion. The thing with having to have at least as many powers from primary mantles is easy to overcome if you plan correctly and choose the mantles with the most powers on them. If you do find yourself without the ability to choose any powers you might consider multiclassing at that point to fill the gap. However I have always thought the class needs a little bit more such as a d8 HD OR Good Fort.