Ardent/Ur-Priest/Psychic Theurge -- how doable is it? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ardent/Ur-Priest/Psychic Theurge -- how doable is it? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JulesCARV
04-02-07, 01:56 AM It seems to me that the biggest blocks are the skill points. Let's say you're going for an ardent 10/ur-priest 2/psychic theurge 8. Then you need 8 ranks in spellcraft, 8 ranks in knowledge (religion), 6 ranks in bluff, 6 ranks in knowledge (psionics), 5 ranks in knowledge (the planes), and 5 ranks in knowledge (arcana) by level 12. Over 12 levels, that's only 2.5 skill points per level (counting 12 levels as fifteen levels to get rid of the quadrupled first level), but do ardents find it easy to get skills like bluff or spellcraft?

Then, of course, there's the issue that the Ur-Priest caster level won't be boosted as with arcane/ur-priest dual casters.
PhaedrusXY
04-02-07, 11:21 AM Take a level of Human Paragon, and the Able Learner feat. You lose another manifester level, but basically get to pick your "class skill list" for your entire career. A good argument can be made to let levels 2 and 3 of Human Pargon progress Ardent manifesting, also.
JulesCARV
04-02-07, 08:03 PM Hmmm... this is getting a bit hairy. This build already needs able learner, spell focus (evil), iron will, practiced manifester (ardent), and practiced spellcaster (ur-priest). That's five feats. I suppose if you rule that human paragon advances spellcasting, and take the other human paragon levels, then you can get nine feats total. That leaves four.

I don't have complete psionic, but I'm wondering... is there any way to get knowledge skills + bluff as ardent class skills? Like, the deception and knowledge mantles or something? If so, that would allow getting rid of able learner, and just using adaptive learning for spellcraft. I don't really know, though.

I suppose four leftover feats isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things.

UPDATE: I suppose with 10 intelligence, human paragon levels get you 5 skill points, so you could probably just buy the skills necessary for Ur-Priest in class using just your three human paragon levels, with two leftover ranks. (human paragon at first level with 10 int gets 20 skill points, remaining two levels add 10 skill points, and ur-priest "needs" 32 skill points) The knowledge (psionics) needed for psychic theurge can be bought as an ardent. The remaining two skill ranks can easily be satisfied with adaptive learning. That gets rid of the need for able learner!
PhaedrusXY
04-03-07, 12:31 PM Yeah, you don't actually need Able Learner. You could take Human Paragon as your first level class, and take the vast majority of the skill ranks then (you multiply by 4, remember?). Then you should easily be able to get the rest as cross-class. Able Learner just makes it easier.
JulesCARV
04-03-07, 04:57 PM I suppose ardent/apostle of peace/psychic theurge might also work, if you're willing to put up with exalted stuff.
carnivore
04-04-07, 12:25 PM why not something fun:

Bard 1/ Ardent 2/ Cerebremancer 6/ ur priest 2/ Sublime chord 1/ Mystic theurge 8

get 9th lvl spells(both Arcane and Divine)...and with practiced Manifester and Overchannel.....8th lvl Powers(recieved by means of Psychic Chirgury)

:D
SlanderPanic
04-04-07, 01:14 PM Uh, Carni... How is a bard going to get spells above 6th level?
angellis_ater
04-04-07, 02:12 PM Sublime Chord spellcasting. Advances just like an Ur-Priest does (ie one spell level per class level).
SlanderPanic
04-04-07, 02:34 PM That's pretty insane, then. Nice.
JulesCARV
04-04-07, 04:10 PM why not something fun:

Bard 1/ Ardent 2/ Cerebremancer 6/ ur priest 2/ Sublime chord 1/ Mystic theurge 8

get 9th lvl spells(both Arcane and Divine)...and with practiced Manifester and Overchannel.....8th lvl Powers(recieved by means of Psychic Chirgury)

:D

I don't think you meet the fortitude save requirements for the ur-priest. That is, unless Skip Williams just screwed up "character class: ardent," which I admit is quite likely.
carnivore
04-05-07, 11:28 AM opps ...i didnt check the Fort save Req
...oh well :weep:

:D
JulesCARV
04-05-07, 11:36 AM Sublime Chord spellcasting. Advances just like an Ur-Priest does (ie one spell level per class level).

Untrue. It advances at one spell level per two class levels, but it starts off with 4th and 5th level spells.

Sublime chords cast 4th and 5th level spells at levels 1 and 2. They get 6th level spells at level 3, 7th level spells at level 5, 8th level spells at level 7, and 9th level spells at level 9.

Sublime chords have no spells at all of levels 0-3, interestingly, although 3rd level arcane spellcasting is one of the requirements for getting into the class.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 04-02-07, 01:56 AM	It seems to me that the biggest blocks are the skill points. Let's say you're going for an ardent 10/ur-priest 2/psychic theurge 8. Then you need 8 ranks in spellcraft, 8 ranks in knowledge (religion), 6 ranks in bluff, 6 ranks in knowledge (psionics), 5 ranks in knowledge (the planes), and 5 ranks in knowledge (arcana) by level 12. Over 12 levels, that's only 2.5 skill points per level (counting 12 levels as fifteen levels to get rid of the quadrupled first level), but do ardents find it easy to get skills like bluff or spellcraft? Then, of course, there's the issue that the Ur-Priest caster level won't be boosted as with arcane/ur-priest dual casters.
PhaedrusXY 04-02-07, 11:21 AM	Take a level of Human Paragon, and the Able Learner feat. You lose another manifester level, but basically get to pick your "class skill list" for your entire career. A good argument can be made to let levels 2 and 3 of Human Pargon progress Ardent manifesting, also.
JulesCARV 04-02-07, 08:03 PM	Hmmm... this is getting a bit hairy. This build already needs able learner, spell focus (evil), iron will, practiced manifester (ardent), and practiced spellcaster (ur-priest). That's five feats. I suppose if you rule that human paragon advances spellcasting, and take the other human paragon levels, then you can get nine feats total. That leaves four. I don't have complete psionic, but I'm wondering... is there any way to get knowledge skills + bluff as ardent class skills? Like, the deception and knowledge mantles or something? If so, that would allow getting rid of able learner, and just using adaptive learning for spellcraft. I don't really know, though. I suppose four leftover feats isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things. UPDATE: I suppose with 10 intelligence, human paragon levels get you 5 skill points, so you could probably just buy the skills necessary for Ur-Priest in class using just your three human paragon levels, with two leftover ranks. (human paragon at first level with 10 int gets 20 skill points, remaining two levels add 10 skill points, and ur-priest "needs" 32 skill points) The knowledge (psionics) needed for psychic theurge can be bought as an ardent. The remaining two skill ranks can easily be satisfied with adaptive learning. That gets rid of the need for able learner!
PhaedrusXY 04-03-07, 12:31 PM	Yeah, you don't actually need Able Learner. You could take Human Paragon as your first level class, and take the vast majority of the skill ranks then (you multiply by 4, remember?). Then you should easily be able to get the rest as cross-class. Able Learner just makes it easier.
JulesCARV 04-03-07, 04:57 PM	I suppose ardent/apostle of peace/psychic theurge might also work, if you're willing to put up with exalted stuff.
carnivore 04-04-07, 12:25 PM	why not something fun: Bard 1/ Ardent 2/ Cerebremancer 6/ ur priest 2/ Sublime chord 1/ Mystic theurge 8 get 9th lvl spells(both Arcane and Divine)...and with practiced Manifester and Overchannel.....8th lvl Powers(recieved by means of Psychic Chirgury) :D
SlanderPanic 04-04-07, 01:14 PM	Uh, Carni... How is a bard going to get spells above 6th level?
angellis_ater 04-04-07, 02:12 PM	Sublime Chord spellcasting. Advances just like an Ur-Priest does (ie one spell level per class level).
SlanderPanic 04-04-07, 02:34 PM	That's pretty insane, then. Nice.
JulesCARV 04-04-07, 04:10 PM	why not something fun: Bard 1/ Ardent 2/ Cerebremancer 6/ ur priest 2/ Sublime chord 1/ Mystic theurge 8 get 9th lvl spells(both Arcane and Divine)...and with practiced Manifester and Overchannel.....8th lvl Powers(recieved by means of Psychic Chirgury) :D I don't think you meet the fortitude save requirements for the ur-priest. That is, unless Skip Williams just screwed up "character class: ardent," which I admit is quite likely.
carnivore 04-05-07, 11:28 AM	opps ...i didnt check the Fort save Req ...oh well :weep: :D
JulesCARV 04-05-07, 11:36 AM	Sublime Chord spellcasting. Advances just like an Ur-Priest does (ie one spell level per class level). Untrue. It advances at one spell level per two class levels, but it starts off with 4th and 5th level spells. Sublime chords cast 4th and 5th level spells at levels 1 and 2. They get 6th level spells at level 3, 7th level spells at level 5, 8th level spells at level 7, and 9th level spells at level 9. Sublime chords have no spells at all of levels 0-3, interestingly, although 3rd level arcane spellcasting is one of the requirements for getting into the class.