Post/Author/DateTime	Post
celestialkin 05-21-07, 10:24 PM	Hey guys. I'm looking for a Psionic class which would allow me to create and control undead. Does such a class exist. If so, in which book can I find it? Thanks in advance.
kyeudo 05-21-07, 10:33 PM	There is no psionic form of necromancy. The closest you can come to it is either Astral Constructs, for mindless minions, or a bunch of dominated mind slaves.
Lokiyn 05-21-07, 10:56 PM	Closest you'll get is Hyperconcious with Psi-animate Dead. I had a character once that did the Faux Character Concept. Take an Eternal Wand of Animate Dead (or a nightcaller whistle or something similar) Use Cpsi's power Stygian Domination to transfer your mind into an undead body, take control. Then carry your real body in a casket on your back while you manifest from your undead proxie. A Riverine Casket with lock on the inside will do nicely. Depending on how thin you make the casket it can be cheap or very expensive
celestialkin 05-21-07, 11:08 PM	Closest you'll get is Hyperconcious with Psi-animate Dead. I had a character once that did the Faux Character Concept. Take an Eternal Wand of Animate Dead (or a nightcaller whistle or something similar) Use Cpsi's power Stygian Domination to transfer your mind into an undead body, take control. Then carry your real body in a casket on your back while you manifest from your undead proxie. A Riverine Casket with lock on the inside will do nicely. Depending on how thin you make the casket it can be cheap or very expensive What exactly are the benefits of fighting while in an undead host? And by manifest do you mean use my powers? Also, where can I read more about these Faux Character Concepts?
Lokiyn 05-21-07, 11:45 PM	Well basically the idea was to keep your body safe, while using expendable proxies to deal with combat or dangerous situations. The main problem is that its a 5th level power, on the other hand its a long duration, Hours upon hours. The advantages are as follows The undead body Retains Strength Constitution (-) Dexterity Hit points Natural abilities Special Abilities You add Intelligence Wisdom Charisma Level Class Bab Saves Mental abilities (such as psionic manifestation) The advantage is that you can get into a stronger more resiliant body with possibly some nifty special abilities. The best is if you party with a necromancer who can supply you with bodies to inhabit. Another Advantage is that if your host body dies with you in range you are effectivly unharmed (as your hit points are unaffected). You climb out of your casket (be dramatic about it ;) ) and continue the fight Faux Character Concepts is basically the idea of combat by proxy. Through misdirection and other similar tactics you remove your character from the line of fire. Sometimes its as simple as pretending to be the hireling in simple robes while the hireling is in expensive silks while you feed him lines.
Phalo 05-21-07, 11:58 PM	in LOM there is a procedure that creates a void mind its a mind flair thing. not really undead but is a meat shield. side note LOM is a really good book
celestialkin 05-22-07, 03:08 AM	in LOM there is a procedure that creates a void mind its a mind flair thing. not really undead but is a meat shield. side note LOM is a really good book Can you please tell me where I can find this procedure in the Lords of Madness book? I've read the whole Mind Flayers section looking for it, but I can't find it. I can't seem to find it in the New Monsters section either. A page number would be very appreciated.
angellis_ater 05-22-07, 09:49 AM	I believe the Voidmind Template is in one of the Forgotten Realms books, perhaps "Monsters of Faerūn"?
thasis 05-22-07, 10:07 AM	Psionics and Undeath, never really connected with eachother, but for an intresting concept, what about a new set of powers that go along this sort of vein: Abilities that allow you to transfer small amounts of your essence (albeit VERY small, don't want to be shattering yourself up to much ;)) into corpse hosts, allowing them to become animate (not undead per say, as it has nothing to do with negative energy, just animated corpses) with some minor ability for control under yourself. The twist is, as you spread more and more minions out, it takes a toll on your life force and if you don't have the appropiate level it begins to damage your wisdom (or constitution?). Would go with my Undeath and Her Beauties project.
kyeudo 05-22-07, 05:17 PM	Voidmind Creatures are illithid creations and are found in the Fiend Folio, along with the half-illithid. It may be mentioned in Lords of Madness, but the Voidmind template is not included in the book.
celestialkin 05-22-07, 06:39 PM	Voidmind Creatures are illithid creations and are found in the Fiend Folio, along with the half-illithid. It may be mentioned in Lords of Madness, but the Voidmind template is not included in the book. Thanks for the info. The Voidmind is actually in the MM3 (pg. 187), but it really does not matter, since the ritual needed to make them requires 3 Illithid and someone with tentacles to suck out about 95% of the victims' brain. I don't think my Psion could do this, and sadly their entry does not give any information on how much it would cost to make one, or how many Voidminds I/a Illithid could control at one time. Closest you'll get is Hyperconcious with Psi-animate Dead. Thanks for the telling me about that power. I own a copy of Hyperconcious and I love it to death, but sadly my DM is against using 3rd party books in his campaign. I will keep it in mind for any future campaigns.
Saedar 06-30-07, 04:06 AM	Actually, with WotC newest Expanded Class article for psionics, there is a way to become a necromancer of sorts using the alternate class feature called "Spell to Power" for an Erudite. It allows you to add arcane spells to powers known, albeit at an exp penalty. You could just add a bunch of the necro classics to your list of powers! Cheers!:) The page is at http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a
InkBlot 06-30-07, 02:09 PM	Psionics and Undeath, never really connected with eachother I was always disappointed that psychics, in D&D, don't have anything to do with ghosts and other spirits from beyond the veil.
kyeudo 06-30-07, 02:20 PM	Thats a different kind of psychic. The psionics handbook is geared towards the "Mind over Matter" idea of mental powers, rather than the "I'm receptive to the psychic vibrations of others" model.
InkBlot 06-30-07, 02:51 PM	How can you say that when the seer has sensitivity to psychic impressions as a second level power? The XPH is supposed to cover all kinds of psychics, from Jean Grey to Edgar Cayce to Charlie McGee to John Edwards. I was glad to see stygian discernment and speak with dead in Complete Psionic, even if most of the other necromancy-like powers were rubbish.
Fafnir 06-30-07, 03:01 PM	How can you say that when the seer has sensitivity to psychic impressions as a second level power? The XPH is supposed to cover all kinds of psychics, from Jean Grey to Edgar Cayce to Charlie McGee to John Edwards. I was glad to see stygian perception and speak with dead in Complete Psionic, even if most of the other necromancy-like powers were rubbish. QFT. Telepathy should have at least a few spirit-related powers, and clairsentience should have tons of them.
InkBlot 06-30-07, 03:14 PM	I've tried to write spirit-related power before, but they're kind of tricky. I was never satisfied with any of them. For seers I wrote ether sight, a low level power which lets you see the ethereal plane. For the general list I wrote ghost sense, which was a special detect undead that simultaneously worked on both the material and ethereal planes. On no particular list (I hadn't decided yet) there was spirit talk, which voiced your thoughts on the ethereal plane; force manifestation, which forced ghosts in the area to manifest on the material plane; and compel spirits, which was like control undead for incorporeal undead only. One power I was never able to even decide what it should do was channeling. Thematically, it forces a ghost to enter your body. Mechanically, I had no idea what the benefit of that would be. Being possessed is normally a bad thing. edit: Back on topic, the closest thing to a "psionic necromancer class" would be an Ardent with the Death mantle. Other fitting mantles could be Darkness, Consumption, and Life. An Ardent gets many mantles, must pick two primary mantles that he gets most of his powers from, and has a class skeleton (BAB, HD, etc.) like a cleric. A mantle is like a domain. It has a special ability and a list of powers. Unlike domains, there aren't always at least 9 powers on the list. Unlike a cleric, there is no general "ardent power list". However, ardents get many more mantles than a cleric does domains (about 8 mantles, IIRC). Complete Psionic added a lot of powers that have to deal with death, evil, negative energy, and undead. Most, if not all, of these are available to ardents. Many of these powers are copy/pasted from the PHB. A lot of them stink. Almost all of them are off-flavor for psionics. But they're there.
AntiDjinn 06-30-07, 07:25 PM	The are plenty of accounts in psychic phenomenon lore of mediums communicating with spirits, or seeing visions of how a person was murdered, but I don't know of any detailing psychics making skeletons. When a telepath sees a zombie all he wants to do is Time Hop it out of the way, not chat with it, and certainly not call up more of the same. Necromancers and evil clerics are welcome to the walking dead, there is no reason to create yet another "Class X, Psionic." Most DM's would probably allow Object Reading to work on a body part (or else someone can port up a 3.5 version of the 2E Bone Reading power) and Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions should be able to pick up on spirit presences. Most other attempts at necropsionics have been devoid of psionic flavor, or just ill conceived: Stygian Discernment is pathetic. In round 1 it can detect the presence of undead in its area. As in, you can tell if there are undead in a 60 foot cone right in front of you. That might be useful if you are fighting invisible undead, or a type that can pass themselves off as living, but if zombies are milling within 60 feet of me, I would hope to notice without using a power. No, it doesn't work through walls; it is an emanation. It also does not turn corners. No, it doesn't work transdimensionally unless you apply the feat. Round 2 (you are concentrating to maintain, remember, hope the undead you are finding are not actually attacking you or anything) you find out how many undead are in the area. Like you couldn't just count them since they are right in front of you. You also get the chance to stun yourself with your own power, which is always such a good idea when there are undead in your face. Round 3 (still concentrating): You learn the location and relative strength of each undead or negative aura in this 60 foot cone you have been staring at for the last 18 seconds. At this point you can actually detect undead in the area who are out of your line of sight. Now you get a +2 insight bonus to apply to one attack roll, saving throw, or power DC vs. undead you have managed to detect in the area. Wow! Only 3 rounds of concentration on a fixed area and a possible risk of being stunned to get a +2 mod on one attack, save, or power manifestation that only applies vs. undead who are in the area. It might as well say: It detects what should already be obvious and helps you hit them, but only with their permission and only if they are patient enough to wait for it.
kyeudo 06-30-07, 07:47 PM	I concede the point to you, InkBlot. Yet even seers rarely spend too many powers known on any of the powers you mentioned. Seers more often spend their powers known on the present and future than on "Someone was murdered here" powers. However, that said, I like the powers you suggested. For the right game those would be cool. As for the Channeling power, I think that the power would target a willing incorporeal undead and then you would be possesed by it, using the possession rules from whatever source of your choice (The ones that spring to mind first are the ones from the ECS). AntiDjinn, you are one of those demigods of sarcastic humour and irony.
InkBlot 06-30-07, 11:21 PM	The problem is that willing ghosts could possess you without your help, and unwilling ghosts are going to mess you up once they get control of your body. Anyway, that's a problem for another thread. The seer, the telepath, and the nomad are all characters that can thrive or fall depending on the kind of game you're in. Seers thrive in games full of espionage, mysteries, and riddles. Telepaths fall in games themed around undead and other mind-affecting-immune creatures. Nomads thrive in adventures which require a lot of travel, plane hopping, and terrain obstacles. All three have their niches, even though they can do OK in most games. Seers in most games will focus on the future and present. Seers in their niche-games will focus on the past as well. Or maybe my love of psychic detectives is giving me a bias.
Greatbear 06-30-07, 11:49 PM	Thats a different kind of psychic. The psionics handbook is geared towards the "Mind over Matter" idea of mental powers, rather than the "I'm receptive to the psychic vibrations of others" model. Makes you wonder why this so obvious angle has never been exploited by D&D psionics before. Instead, most of the "stygian" powers in Complete Psionic focus on how many different ways there are to deal negative levels. :rolleyes:
AdventChild 07-01-07, 02:09 AM	I was always disappointed that psychics, in D&D, don't have anything to do with ghosts and other spirits from beyond the veil. Me too, however ghosts and spirits are not equal to summoning zombies and skeletons... however a base class could be worked around "animating" dead corpses by controlling such corpse or skeleton with your mind (not actually using or summoning an undead creature) i might work on something once i find the right fluff to back me up on this...
Lokiyn 07-01-07, 03:02 AM	Try something like this "The Haunted is a psionic class for those rare individuals who are extremely open to the resonating minds of the formarly living. These Lost souls delay in thier travel to the afterlife by latching on to the Haunted's unnaturally strong energies. As a result the haunted usually suffers an unusual childhood, often bypassing the childish innocence completely as the souls of the lost use the Haunted as a mouthpiece to try an accomplish their goals (this often fails, as the astral planes unique existance means that the distances from a fallen and the Haunted can be anywhere from the next room to another plane entirely.) While most of these haunted are driven mad while young, a few manage to hold their sanity by mentaly forcing the lost into a nearby host object, These can be anything from a doll to a corpse, but all have a symbolic link to the spirit they host (the spirit of a forsworn bride, for example would by necessity be in a female doll wearing the cultures bridal equivalent or a corpse of the appropriate race and gender (actual bodies have a greater symbolic connection to the spirits and can be more general.) What the Haunted is doing is using his mental energies to deliberatly channel a host spirit, while channelling the spirit it acts as a barrier to further incursions. The main problem for the Haunted is that as the Haunted grows in strength he is also required to channel more or more powerful spirits as the overall void grows." ~~Random class information, probably drop pp some, grant them something like "undead companion" Hmm a rough stab at some mechanics would be something like Undead Companion (su): A Haunted may channel the souls that normally use the charcter as an anchor, In doing so the Haunted binds them to a host and sustains thier existance. The Companion has two variants. Object or Servitor. As an object the Haunter uses an inanimate object in the form of a medium sized member of his or her race. (medium sized). The Haunter may have a number of Objects equal to his or her hit dice. (all in one, or multiples). These Objects use the statistics for a medium sized animated object and are about 120 pounds each. Take the stats for a medium animated object and adjust for the new hit dice. Because these items are merely animated it takes a standard action to direct an object to preform a new task. These objects cannot travel more than 60 feet from the Haunted without losing thier animated status. An object takes 1 day per hit dice to craft and simply cost the same as an equivalent weight of materials. Servitors If the Haunter chooses instead to bind the spirit to a corpse the corpse is reanimated and repaired with ectoplasm drawn from the astral. The servitor is friendly but not controled by the haunter. The Haunter may have a total hit dice of servitors equal to thier character level (broken up in multiple hosts or all in one.) The animated body does not look decayed but is easily spotted as abnormal (dc 15 spot) The personality is different from the original, the servitor has the same hit dice as the original and acess to the abilities of the original (including class levels) but is treated as being having two negative levels (aside from the hit dice) that cannot be removed. While bodies can handle energies better than objects, the Servitor still must remain within a mile of the haunter and must return to within 60 feet for at least an hour each day. The servitor is friendly to the Haunter, however it does not matter if its attitude is changed through diplomacy or other means it will not take actions that would endanger its life, It is willing to take damage if doing so would prevent the haunter from dying (preserving its link) but will not willingly participate in risky actions (you can't send it to look for traps) The Servitors constantly try to wheedle aid from the Haunter in fullfilling thier goals (but often can't remember them!) every day the servitor is appease with a token guesture (up to the dm) its attitude drops one step toward the Haunted, occasionally Haunters have been known to be kiddnapped and held hostage by their servitors! ~~~ meh, its not that good, I may tinker with it later when it isn't 3AM and i can think. (at the very least i'll spell check the sucker and probably laugh at what seemed perfectly reasonable at the time.)
AdventChild 07-01-07, 03:07 AM	a class around spirits... hmmm doesnt really call me much
Lokiyn 07-01-07, 03:56 AM	but its not about spirits, Spirits trying to use the open mind as an anchor, and getting the tables turnned and shoved into a body and used to block more from showing up is the flavor for the mechanics, Animated corpses