Post/Author/DateTime	Post
goawayugh 04-24-07, 01:46 PM	One of my PC's has a +22 modifier for her Autohypnosis. Since the DC to memorize something is 20, does this mean that she effectivly has a photographic memory?!? Can she actually remember everything and recall it with out having to check? The skill desctiption says nothing about automatic failures, and skill checks are not subject to the automatic miss on a natural 1. I know as a DM I could house rule it that a natural 1 is a faliure, but I would hate someone doing that to me.
Bacris 04-24-07, 01:58 PM	Memorizing, at least from my reading it, is an active effort, not a passive effort, so I'd say the player would need to declare it. But yeah, I'd say anyone with a +19 Autohypnosis check has a photographic memory.
Bedevere 04-24-07, 02:00 PM	I thought that the dc to memorise was only 15? Either way, by the RAW, they can indeed memorise everything, automatically. Given that 90% or more of the time, they'd be able to take 10 anyway (how many people try to memorise something in the middle of a fight?), I don't see it as much of a problem. Heck, in the campaign im playing in atm, one guy has a +6 modifier, and takes 10 all the time. Nobody sees this as overpowered, since remembering something that they have actually seen is hardly overpowered.
Fafnir 04-24-07, 02:01 PM	One of my PC's has a +22 modifier for her Autohypnosis. Since the DC to memorize something is 20, does this mean that she effectivly has a photographic memory?!? Can she actually remember everything and recall it with out having to check? The skill desctiption says nothing about automatic failures, and skill checks are not subject to the automatic miss on a natural 1. I know as a DM I could house rule it that a natural 1 is a faliure, but I would hate someone doing that to me. Yes, and yes. And auto-stabilize. Not as great as automatic Use Magic Device, but still neat. It will be pretty hard to poison her, too.
goawayugh 04-24-07, 02:44 PM	It will be pretty hard to poison her, too. Yes it will, not to mention that the only other PC is a druid who has venom immunity. So much for poison.
Racinante 04-24-07, 04:51 PM	One of my PC's has a +22 modifier for her Autohypnosis. Since the DC to memorize something is 20, does this mean that she effectivly has a photographic memory?!? Can she actually remember everything and recall it with out having to check? The skill desctiption says nothing about automatic failures, and skill checks are not subject to the automatic miss on a natural 1. I know as a DM I could house rule it that a natural 1 is a faliure, but I would hate someone doing that to me. Provided that there are no circumstance modifiers that pushes the check above 23.
carnivore 04-24-07, 05:03 PM	also....notice: Time and Skill Checks Using a skill might take a round, take no time, or take several rounds or even longer. Most skill uses are standard actions, move actions, or full-round actions. Types of actions define how long activities take to perform within the framework of a combat round (6 seconds) and how movement is treated with respect to the activity. Some skill checks are instant and represent reactions to an event, or are included as part of an action. These skill checks are not actions. Other skill checks represent part of movement. you need to declare the Action...because: Memorize: You can attempt to memorize a long string of numbers, a long passage of verse, or some other particularly difficult piece of information (but you can’t memorize magical writing or similarly exotic scripts). Each successful check allows you to memorize a single page of text (up to 800 words), numbers, diagrams, or sigils (even if you don’t recognize their meaning). If a document is longer than one page, you can make additional checks for each additional page. You always retain this information; however, you can recall it only with another successful Autohypnosis check. but this doesnt include for example .... walking into a room looking around then leaving...and later describing in full detail everything in the room there are skill tricks for that sort of thing(Complete Scoundrel) :D
PhaedrusXY 04-27-07, 01:51 AM	Unless it was an absolutely insanely cluttered room, I can't imagine it would be more difficult than memorizing 800 words of text. some other particularly difficult piece of informationThe section you quoted makes it clear that it isn't only talking about memorizing numbers or text. Those are just examples of how extreme this memorization is.
Particle_Man 04-27-07, 01:22 PM	I suppose memorizing a room would allow them to "redo" a spot check on that room (as of the time they memorized it) at a later time? "Wait a second, there was someone hiding under the bed last night!"
Lycanthromancer 04-27-07, 01:28 PM	I see this as being like Brutha in Terry Pratchett's Small Gods. He could see a room for 3 seconds before being blinded, and tell that across the room, on a shelf were 3 coins, one with a scratch on the face (in addition to all of the other facets of the room, including chairs, bookshelves, and so on).
Grizzled Gryphon 04-27-07, 04:52 PM	I would say they would have to declare that they are memorizing something. With the room example, I would say they can use there memory of the room to notice moved things, or things missing, without a spot check. "what happened to the book that was on this shelf between these two? The title was..." you get the idea. This would, of course, require a Autohypnosis Check. So, with a success, they could notice even small things, like a bookshelf that is not quite where it was last time. Or even smaller things, like something in the room having been relplaced with another object. For example, a fight in a room broke a chair, and the perpatrator replaced the chair so that no one would know. Except, the new chair doesn't have that scrape on the arm, or the shade of the material isn't quite right. The guy that memorized the room would notice this.
hogarth 04-28-07, 10:36 AM	It will be pretty hard to poison her, too. Of course Autohypnosis has no effect on the initial save against a poison, but it would help against secondary damage.
carnivore 04-28-07, 11:43 AM	first of all....with the room example...this would be how it works: 1) enter room 2) make Autohypnosis to memorize a single facing in the room(north, south, east, or west) 3)continue for the other facings as for how long it would take....notice: Action: None. Making an Autohypnosis check doesn’t require an action; it is either a free action (when attempted reactively) or part of another action (when attempted actively) .concious memorization is an deliberate activity, thus it is part of another action....so seeing as how you are trying to take everything in with each Viewing...it would require 1 minute per facing...similar to a Spot check for reading lips: Action: Varies. Every time you have a chance to spot something in a reactive manner you can make a Spot check without using an action. Trying to spot something you failed to see previously is a move action. To read lips, you must concentrate for a full minute before making a Spot check, and you can’t perform any other action (other than moving at up to half speed) during this minute. or a Full round action per 5x5 square similar to a Search check also trying to memorize random Visual information is FAR, Far more difficult than simple Text or Numbers...... if they were the same, we would already have robots driving all our cars using Visual recognition. :D
Mystyc 04-28-07, 11:58 AM	With the room example, I would say they can use there memory of the room to notice moved things, or things missing, without a spot check. "what happened to the book that was on this shelf between these two? The title was..." you get the idea. I think this is viable, but I definitely think a Spot check is required. Consider your own bedroom -- it's something you've seen many, many times, enough to have it effectively memorized, Autohypnosis or no. If something changed about it, you would still need a Spot check to notice the difference. Autohypnosis lets you skip the 10 years of passive memorization, but you still have to connect the dots. If you are suspicious, you can take 20 on your Spot, effectively comparing the current room with the image in your mind step by step, but that takes more time. And there's no way you could cite a book's title from across the room without a Spot check. If you had memorized the entire bookshelf while standing right in front of it, then yes, but reading a book's spine from 30 feet away is mucho difficult.
PhaedrusXY 04-28-07, 01:16 PM	Carnivore, I think your interpretation is waaaay too harsh. I think the other suggestions in this thread are pretty reasonable. Here is how I'd do it: 1) They make an Autohypnosis check to memorize a room. I'd do this as part of a passive Spot check. They might not notice anything particularly difficult. 2) Later, they come back to the room, and something is different. 3) They can make a Spot check to notice what is different, unless they failed the first Spot check to even notice that particular item when they first memorized the room. With a very high bonus to both Spot and Autohypnosis, they could be extremely good at this, and it would take almost no time. With only good Autohypnosis but poor Spot, they'd just fail to notice alot of things. I'd say they could do the same thing with Search, but it would take longer (more like Carnivore's suggestion). To me, Spot is just looking over a whole area quickly. Searching is methodically going over each and every inch of that area, including moving things around to see under them, etc. There are some things that obviously can't be found with just Spot, also (hidden doors, etc).
carnivore 04-28-07, 03:50 PM	it might be a little harsh...... but how many characters see in 360 degree vision....if you want to adjust the time factor, fine(say move action for each facing.....but they must spend the actions to LOOK in each difection and Memorize the scene)...but work with the skill guidelines that already exist :D
Lycanthromancer 04-28-07, 04:14 PM	it might be a little harsh...... but how many characters see in 360 degree vision....<snip>A surprising number, given Synesthete and Ubiquitous Vision...
carnivore 04-28-07, 04:34 PM	for those ...i would allow a single check...otherwise, a check for each direction a person looks(N,W,S,E) :D
Lycanthromancer 04-28-07, 04:37 PM	Sorry, you are eaten by a Grue.
carnivore 04-28-07, 04:39 PM	:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Nathreet 04-28-07, 05:15 PM	Rather than making the PC declare every little thing he's memorized, I'd have him write it down on the sheet as he hears it. Anything on the sheet is memorized (and easy for him to reference), anything not on the sheet probably isn't. Kinda like what every PC might do already, except he could write down "contents of X" if X is long, and then ask the DM about it later if needed.
carnivore 04-28-07, 05:33 PM	the Player does not have to declare everything he memorizes....simply declare that he is taking the Action to Memorize something(roll for Skill check)...then later..roll the Skill check to see if he recalls it(the DM keeps track of what is important and informs the player if he has recalled it with a successful check......the DM would keep track if the player took the time to memorize the thing so that later he could give the Info back :D
Grizzled Gryphon 04-28-07, 05:49 PM	How about this: The character has to declare that they intend ot memorize the room (or whatever). Then, they make a search check for each square, which will include any wall adjacent to that square. Now, hard to spot things in that square will either be seen or not. Then, when they come back to that room, and want to see if anything is different, they have to make a Autohypnosis Check to see how well they recall that information. Any changes will have a DC for the player to beat, and that DC will be up to the DM as to how difficult the difference is to notice. I would say that obvious changes have a 0 DC (chair is missing, or the like), DC 15 for a small change (book moved, drawer not quite shut,), and so on for more and more dfficult things to notice. What do you all think? And, is this at least remotely related to the OP? I sure hope so, as I don't remember...
Drachasor 04-28-07, 06:17 PM	there are skill tricks for that sort of thing(Complete Scoundrel) :D There's one for listening to things. Based on that, I'd say: Photographic Memory Prerequisite: Autohypnosis 5 ranks, Decipher Script 5 ranks, and Spot 5 ranks or Search 5 ranks (the "or" only applies to the last two) Benefit: You can make a mental picture of a room, any other location, or even a visual image by making a DC 20 Autohypnosis check. Later you may remember perfectly, even making spot and search checks on the visual as if you were back at the point and time you memorized the image. Special: Because you store the visual information by grouping items and details together and giving them a context (much like a language), you may substitute a decipher script check for your spot or search check. A single check done in this matter takes 10 times longer than normal. So a normal spot check would require 1 minute, while a search check would require 10 minutes to make. How does that look? (Like any skill trick, btw, this requires 2 skill points to master). Personally I like my decipher script idea, and I think it fits how this would work in "reality". I made it take longer to use decipher script so that this skill trick wouldn't make two skills obsolete. You could also change it into two skill tricks, drop decipher script, and make one for spot checks and one for search checks (and if you have both, add a special line so that you only need one auto-hypnosis check). Personally I'd keep the 5 ranks in decipher script prerequisite, but that's just me. -Drachasor
Grizzled Gryphon 04-28-07, 06:22 PM	That looks pretty good, Drachasor. Nicely done.