Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JhyarelleNightwind 06-03-07, 09:50 PM	I cant believe my friend beat me to this. A moderate Batman can be made with a either PsyWarrior/PsiArtificer or PsiRogue/PsiArtificer. But I'm a lot better on gadget making than he is. And so in our current game my PsiRogue will take a few levels in Psionic Artficer. First order of bat gimicks is a belt of skins. It will look like a poke'mon trainers blet with six pheres on it with skins for the flolowing sneaking, fighting, getting away, water breathing, and two other things i haven't thought of yet. then thers's the power stones AKA batarangs, flash pelletes, smoke bombs, etc. I can't wait to take a crack at this. Symbiot just took a back seat to something a little more intresting.
InkBlot 06-04-07, 01:35 AM	I've always considered Batman's primary feature to be his ability to neutralize other character's powers. It doesn't matter if you're super strong, or can shoot lightning out of your eyes, because Batman will find your weakness and carve out your superpower gland with a rusty kryptonite spoon (without killing you). Maybe you should try Swordsage/PsiArtificier. A few less power points, but it could be a lot more fun to play. Alternatively, a pure psi-rogue or pure lurk with some item creation feats. Batman was never all about the gadgets (unless you're talking Adam West).
JhyarelleNightwind 06-04-07, 10:55 AM	True so true, but I was thinking more on the Batman from "Batman Begins". I thought that movie was about skills, the toys and knowing how to use them. I really think that version of the Bat would be a Ninja/ non Arcane/Psionic Artificer. I didn't see much neutralizing enemy weaknesses in the movie, unless the using a few thugs fears against them count. In that case Mass Fear or Mass Cloud Mind and a good intimidate check would work out fine. The only weapon Batman uses, that is unless really provked to use any (with the exection of guns [again except when Superman went nust and he shot him with a kyptonite bullet]), are the Batarangs. As for combat goes Batman goes for the hand to hand, suprise attacks, trips, entangles and disarm.
PrinceCurtis 06-04-07, 11:54 AM	frankly i don't see the point of a psionic class anyway. He's smart, has gadgets, is a good researcher and martial artist. Swordsage might nicely represent his martial arts and high agility. The PsiArtificer for his gadgets. A lurk does sound nice too... Hmm
SlanderPanic 06-04-07, 12:05 PM	A big part of what makes Batman special is the fact that he doesn't have any sort of super-powers. He's an intelligent, middle-aged man who uses the resources at his disposal to be a superhero on a level with -or even above- godlike characters like Superman and Wonder Woman. The modern Batman doesn't rely on gadgetry nearly as much as his pre-Crisis version did. Even the Batmobiles -traditionally, in the movies and cartoons, the ultimate expression of Bat-technology- over the last 20 years have been real-world cars modified with (mostly) real-world technology, most of it civilian. In D&D terms, I think he'd be a fighter/rogue, probably with a couple of levels in ranger (for Track,) the Able Learner feat, and plenty of Craft and Knowledge skills. His alignment is unquestionably Lawful Good. While he is a vigilante, he works to enforce order and he recognizes and assists legitimate authority whenever possible.
InkBlot 06-04-07, 12:15 PM	I still say Batman is at least part swordsage, and I'd love to see him with a bunch of antipsionic feats. But since you're actually going to be playing this character I think we should hold off on the conjecture and just try to build the best psionic gadgeteering Batman we can. On page 59 of Complete Psionics there are two feats that you might want for the psiBat. Dual Dorje allows you to activate two dorjes as a full-round action. Dorje Mastery automatically increases the augment, or the DC if there is no augment, of any dorje you wield.
JhyarelleNightwind 06-04-07, 03:35 PM	frankly i don't see the point of a psionic class anyway. He's smart, has gadgets, is a good researcher and martial artist. Swordsage might nicely represent his martial arts and high agility. The PsiArtificer for his gadgets. A lurk does sound nice too... Hmm Well yeah he's Bruce Wayne, of course he has the resources. But my PC is a psithief who's resources are few and far in between. I like the ability to make my own toys jsut so I don't quickly run out PP when the goin gets tough. Besides I'm only dipping levels in Psi Artificer till I get the creat arms and armor, I might just tap into levels in Lurk once I see what it can offer.
PrinceCurtis 06-06-07, 06:19 PM	I still say Batman is at least part swordsage, and I'd love to see him with a bunch of antipsionic feats. But since you're actually going to be playing this character I think we should hold off on the conjecture and just try to build the best psionic gadgeteering Batman we can. On page 59 of Complete Psionics there are two feats that you might want for the psiBat. Dual Dorje allows you to activate two dorjes as a full-round action. Dorje Mastery automatically increases the augment, or the DC if there is no augment, of any dorje you wield. Well you can't really have anti-psionic feats if your psionic can you? Yt Oddly yo ucan have anti-magic and be magical.. And SlanderPanic, He might be able to do with normal non-psionic gadgets, but in a D&D campaign it might kick his butt. I still have see decent enough alchemy and crafts to represnt his bat arsenal and the stuff that does it easy to save against.
InkBlot 06-06-07, 07:19 PM	Well you can't really have anti-psionic feats if your psionic can you? That's what I was saying. If I was going to play Batman, I'd making him a nonpsionic character with some antipsionic feats (assuming the game was remotely high-psionic). Anyway, the OP wants to play a psionic gadgeteer. Whether or not that fits our idea of Batman, it fits his. You do have a point on mundane gadgetry. If nothing else, it can save money and power points. A 750gp dorje of entangling ectoplasm stops looking so good when a 20 GP net can give you the same effect and doesn't get used up. Ditto for ectoplasmic strand vs a grappling hook, stomp vs bolas, and grease vs actual grease. I once played a wizard/ranger based on Robin, and this is the route I went. It worked very well, and actually helped make up for his weak spellcasting.
Tyroki 06-06-07, 07:24 PM	Give him some two pointed Shuriken too ^^ That'll be yer Bat-a-rang.
InkBlot 06-06-07, 07:25 PM	I always thought of them more as throwing knives, but shuriken are a lot cheaper if you can swing the proficieny (e.g. a level of monk).
sicsemperjohn 06-06-07, 11:29 PM	Ideally, Batman should have one or two levels of monk. I made a Batman-ish character once, though it was mostly to **** off a friend who claimed that Batman must be Chaotic Good. I started with two levels of monk and multiclassed into paladin because Batman is lawful good, and got myself some merciful, returning shuriken. And lots of Tanglefoot bags. And, really, a lot of other ridiculous things in my inventory.
InkBlot 06-07-07, 12:33 AM	I'm sorry, but I am compelled by law to inform you that returning can not be placed on shuriken. Shuriken are treated as ammuntion for the purpose of how they are enchanted, and returning can not be placed on ammunition. Even if you could put returning on shuriken, you'd only get half your shuriken back. The other half would be destroyed. Sorry for being so pedantic.
SlanderPanic 06-07-07, 12:50 PM	Why not use boomerangs or chakrams? They're available in several different sourcebooks.
InkBlot 06-07-07, 03:52 PM	Why not use boomerangs? Because shuriken are so cheap to enchant, and some sources portray batarangs as being more like shuriken than boomerangs (notably Batman Begins, which the OP already cited as his inspiration). For reference, boomerangs are in Complete Warrior and The Eberron Campaign Setting. Eberron actualy has two types of boomerangs. The drow boomerangs are crazy point things, like giant shuriken. The Talenta (halfling) boomerangs are the traditional type, like you might have played with as a child. The Talenta boomerangs differ only slightly from the Complete Warrior ones. Both are exotic weapons; both only return on a failed attack roll; both require you to make a second attack roll against AC 10 to catch them. Eberron also has some handy boomerang related feats. Some of these may be halfing-only, but I don't recall which ones. Like many exotic weapons, boomerangs are only realy worth the trouble if you're willing to spend the resources to specialize in them. In the one Eberron game I played (incidentaly, the same game with my Robin-based character) one player did play a halfling boomerang chucker. He was devestating with them. However, we only played to 7th level before the game fell apart.
Tyroki 06-07-07, 06:33 PM	Ideally, Batman should have one or two levels of monk. I made a Batman-ish character once, though it was mostly to **** off a friend who claimed that Batman must be Chaotic Good. I started with two levels of monk and multiclassed into paladin because Batman is lawful good, and got myself some merciful, returning shuriken. And lots of Tanglefoot bags. And, really, a lot of other ridiculous things in my inventory. I'm sorry, but no. Only some sources portrey the Bat like that. Originally, he was a dark SOB, and was more of an Anti-Hero in the way that he was heroic, but not like a hero. He had no issues with killing the criminals. Over the years, they lightened him up a little for comic readers, but some artists still show him in a very dark manner. Go read "Batman: Hush" volumes one and two. They're quite dark, and Bats gets to the point where he's got Joker on the ground and pummelling the living crap into his face. The only reason he doesn't kill him, is because Jim Gorden comes up behind him with a gun and tells him he isn't like this, and if he kills the Joker, it'll be Jim who leads the hunt. See? I'd say Chaotic Good is a decent stand point, though he's a little more emotionally detached than that >.> But Chaotic Good is the most suitable rating.
InkBlot 06-07-07, 07:07 PM	No. No single alignment can be pinned on Batman. Too many writers have written about him over the years, and each one interpretted Batman in their own way. No one who has written for DC, is any more official than anybody else who has written a Batman story for DC. Now if you want to debate it further, read this thread first (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=841602&highlight=batman+alignment). Then either bump it or make a new one in D&D General. But lets keep this thread on topic, with ideas for how Mr. JhyarelleNightwind can play a psionic gadgeteer Batman-esque character.
Tyroki 06-07-07, 07:26 PM	He's definately going to need a rope and grappling hook in the shape of a bat. Hmmm... O.o But what kind of armor would fit the batsuit? I mean, that thing has resistance to elements and all kinds of stuff O.o
InkBlot 06-07-07, 07:43 PM	Either leather, or a chain shirt, depending on the Dex of JN's character (remember he's updating an existing character). Batman's armor is designed to be as light as possible while still protecting the vitals, which would indicate leather. However, the materials it's made of provide roughly the level of protection that a good chainshirt would. I'd say an ectoplasmic skin is in order, but this ain't Batman Beyond. edit: By the way, Nomex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomex). I'd say, a cloak of Fire Resistance and Electricity Resistance.
JhyarelleNightwind 06-07-07, 08:41 PM	He's definately going to need a rope and grappling hook in the shape of a bat. Hmmm... O.o But what kind of armor would fit the batsuit? I mean, that thing has resistance to elements and all kinds of stuff O.o Grapling gun check = Craft Arms and Armor folding handcrossbow with Entangling Ectoplasm. Bat suit type check = Craft Arms and Armor And Craft universal Items and several skins. One for sneaking (Control Sound and Chameleon power), one for underwater recon or escape (adapt body), and one for fighting (precog offense and defense). Batarangs check= Craft Arms and Armor bracers with Rapid Shot, Point Blank Shot and many Shot feat, with Bolt and TK Thrust powers. (Just like in Batman: Revenge of the Joker in the Super Nintendo or Sega Genises days) Utilitybelt check = Craft Universal Items belt with dimensional pockets Bat cowl = Craft Universal Items hood or third eye with detect hostile intent and detect traps power. Cloak check = Craft Universal Item cloak fire/elec/acid rez 10 anything else beside skills I'm missing please let me know.
Tyroki 06-07-07, 08:59 PM	Grapling gun check = Craft Arms and Armor folding handcrossbow with Entangling Ectoplasm. Bat suit type check = Craft Arms and Armor And Craft universal Items and several skins. One for sneaking (Control Sound and Chameleon power), one for underwater recon or escape (adapt body), and one for fighting (precog offense and defense). Batarangs check= Craft Arms and Armor bracers with Rapid Shot, Point Blank Shot and many Shot feat, with Bolt and TK Thrust powers. (Just like in Batman: Revenge of the Joker in the Super Nintendo or Sega Genises days) Utilitybelt check = Craft Universal Items belt with dimensional pockets Bat cowl = Craft Universal Items hood or third eye with detect hostile intent and detect traps power. Cloak check = Craft Universal Item cloak fire/elec/acid rez 10 anything else beside skills I'm missing please let me know. Yee gads O.o You're making ME want to play him xD
PrinceCurtis 06-08-07, 11:26 AM	hmm you also could do a spring loaded gaunlet for a grappling hook alternative.
InkBlot 06-08-07, 01:12 PM	Grapling gun check = Craft Arms and Armor folding handcrossbow with Entangling Ectoplasm. You can't exactly scale buildings and swing around the towers of Sharn with entangling ectoplasm. You need to either carry around an actual grappling hook + rope, use call item (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827e) to get a grappling hook + rope, or use ectoplasmic strand (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12552468&postcount=6) instead. Cloak check = Craft Universal Item cloak fire/elec/acid rez 10 What? No gliding ability? You should at least put catfall on it, if not featherfall.
Tyroki 06-08-07, 06:19 PM	You can't exactly scale buildings and swing around the towers of Sharn with entangling ectoplasm. You need to either carry around an actual grappling hook + rope, use call item (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827e) to get a grappling hook + rope, or use ectoplasmic strand (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12552468&postcount=6) instead. What? No gliding ability? You should at least put catfall on it, if not featherfall. Wouldn't ectoplasmic strand be better for a Spiderman based character instead? It already functions like the web strands he shoots from his canisters to swing around xD
InkBlot 06-08-07, 07:49 PM	It works for both. Spiderman and Batman both have devices which instantly fire off a strong thin line, which can attach to many surfaces. Batman has his grapple-guns, and Spiderman has his webshooters. Both webshooters and grapple-guns allow their respective users to rappel, climb, and swing between tall buildings. Spiderman's webshooters can have more functions than that, and these other functions can't be duplicated with ectoplasmic strand alone.
Tyroki 06-08-07, 08:10 PM	Blimey. You can duplicate superheroes quite easily with psionics O.o Thats just plain awesome xD Now, someone get to work on a thread for recreating Superheroes and Supervillains xD
InkBlot 06-08-07, 08:12 PM	If you go wikiing, you might be suprised at how many superheros have "the psionic ability to x" or "the ability to psionically control y." Most of the XMen are psionic, IIRC. For example; Iceman's power can be defined as a psionic ability to manipulate thermal energy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Drake#Powers_and_abilities)
Tyroki 06-08-07, 08:31 PM	And thus, in my mind, Psionics just has so much more flavour than Magic ^^ Not to mention you can still throw balls of fire (Energy Ball: Fire xD)
JhyarelleNightwind 06-08-07, 09:31 PM	hmm you also could do a spring loaded gaunlet for a grappling hook alternative. That would work to, but it gets in the way of my batarang lanunching bracers. I could make one of each though. You can't exactly scale buildings and swing around the towers of Sharn with entangling ectoplasm. You need to either carry around an actual grappling hook + rope, use call item (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827e) to get a grappling hook + rope, or use ectoplasmic strand (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12552468&postcount=6) instead. Opps my bad I was suppose to use Ectoplasmic Strand instead of Entangling Ectoplasm. Thanks for catching that. Still you do have a point in areas where there is a Null Psionics field up I'm screwed. But just like the bat, always have a back up plan, or some damn good saves on my toys. What? No gliding ability? You should at least put catfall on it, if not featherfall. Again thanks. How the hell did I miss that one. Blimey. You can duplicate superheroes quite easily with psionics O.o Thats just plain awesome xD Now, someone get to work on a thread for recreating Superheroes and Supervillains xD Like I said on the Symbiot skin thread I'm currently making Psionic toys that mimic various Comic, moive, Videogame character abilities. Here's one finnished toy that is currently being play tested. All will posted as I make and test them. Then you guys can PEACH it. Skin of Con-El Source: Superboy/ Con-El/ Conner Kent. A clone with both Superman's and Lex Luthers DNA. See Death of Superman/ Reign of the Supermen/ Superboy/ Young Justice/ Teen Titans Description: When the skin is on a humanoid the upper torso from waist to head is blue, waist to legs are black, and on the chest would appear to be a a red kite shield (no "S" or any letter). Abilities: Psionic Over Land Flight 6thLvp (Emulate flight) [limited 8 hours/day] Tk Thrust 3rdLvp nonaugmented (there are scenes that depicted Superboy using TK to throw things around, this emulates it) at will Bend Reality 8thLvp used for +10 strength (anystronger than this is broken in game so I'll stick to this) at will as long as the skin is on Damage Reduction 5/fire (Superboy can take a beating but fire does afect him in earlier issues, and since the is no kryptonite in D&D this'll do) at will as long as the skin os on Somehow I don't see how to emulate his ability to take apart inanimate things like clockwork mehcanisms or armor worn with TK. If anyone knows how to mimic this please give me a shout. Craft Universal Item/ Crafter Lv8+ Pricing is still being worked on, and from the look of thing we're thingking Legacy Item or Minor Artifact.
InkBlot 06-08-07, 11:34 PM	You don't need to specify that the wearer can use bend reality to get a +10 bonus to strength. Just say that the wearer "gains a +10 enhancement bonus to strength," and maybe put bend reality in the line at the bottom that says how to make the skin (although any power related to strength would work, even animal affinity which can't give a +10 bonus, because items don't necessarily function by emulation spells/powers directly). Damage Reduction 5/fire doesn't make any sense. All Damage Reduction is bypassed by fire. Even if you have DR 1,000,000,000,000/-- you'll still get burnt if you somebody pokes you with a mundane lit torch.
JhyarelleNightwind 06-09-07, 01:12 AM	You don't need to specify that the wearer can use bend reality to get a +10 bonus to strength. Just say that the wearer "gains a +10 enhancement bonus to strength," and maybe put bend reality in the line at the bottom that says how to make the skin (although any power related to strength would work, even animal affinity which can't give a +10 bonus, because items don't necessarily function by emulation spells/powers directly). Damage Reduction 5/fire doesn't make any sense. All Damage Reduction is bypassed by fire. Even if you have DR 1,000,000,000,000/-- you'll still get burnt if you somebody pokes you with a mundane lit torch. Both valid points and I thank you. I didn't use animal affinity because the description mentioned something having some physical trait of the animal whose ability you are mimicking and I did not see any augmentation other than "apply +4 to anothe stat" that would give the use a +10 to Str. As for the DR 5/fire, I was trying to mimic the minor invincibility of Superboy. He's super reziliant and the only other thing that really hurt him in the comics, besides kryptonite was fire (laser, fire ball and the lot). I could change it to +5 AC and DR 5/Arcane,Divine,Psionic. Question when something has DR mod/-, does the dash mean that the DR is suseptable to all nonconvenetional damage like Arcane, Divine, Psionic item or spell? If not does it mean that the DR mod is impervious the previously stated means of attack? From What I gathered DR in 3.5 meant that damage taken is negated or regenerated equal to the DR mod. DR mod may be bipassed by any means by design, such as DR 5/silver, which means that silver based damage does not reduce/regn (what ever) damage taken by 5; also elimanating the guessing game of "Is my +1 sword good for the baddy ahead." Confused yet? So how you you suggest to handle this skins DR? Here's what I want it to have resistance to, blugeoning, slashing, piercing, natural weapon etc...etc. The only thing I want to bypass the skins DR is by any means Arcane, Divine, Psionic; in either power, spell, or being. RSVP
InkBlot 06-09-07, 03:17 PM	Damage Reduction has nothing to do with energy. DR 10/-- means that you ignore 10 points of damage from any physical attack. Damage from any energy attacks, like most spells and powers, is not reduced. DR 10/silver means that you ignore 10 points of damage from any physical attack, except for silver weapons. Damage from any energy attacks, like most spells and powers, is not reduced. DR 10/magic means that you ignore 10 points of damage from any physical attack, except for magic weapons. Damage from any energy attacks, like most spells and powers, is not reduced. DR 10/good means that you ignore 10 points of damage from any physical attack, except for good weapons. Damage from any energy attacks, like most spells and powers, is not reduced. DR 10/good or silver means that you ignore 10 points of damage from any physical attack, except for good weapons or silver weapons. Damage from any energy attacks, like most spells and powers, is not reduced. DR 10/good and silver means that you ignore 10 points of damage from any physical attack, except for weapons which are both good and silver at the same time. Damage from any energy attacks, like most spells and powers, is not reduced. Energy Resistance, ER, is exactly the opposite. ER 10 fire means you ignore 10 points of energy damage from any fire attack, but take full damage from any other energy attack. Damage from any physical weapon, like a sword or club, is not reduced. Do you understand it now? If you have any more questions, you should start a new thread about it in the Combat And Equipment board. To mimic Kon-El's vulnerability to energy attacks, such as fire, you don't have to do anything.
JhyarelleNightwind 06-10-07, 01:08 AM	Damn that was helpful.:eek: