Becoming an Elan [Archive] - Wizards Community

Becoming an Elan [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
KernOfGort
12-06-07, 03:02 PM Greetings fellow adventurers,

I have a human ardent, and I was just wondering...are there specific rules for becoming an Elan? It says in Expanded Psionics handbook that they are created through a ritual. If my human underwent that ritual, what would change for him? Would he become a level 1 Elan ardent, forgetting all he knew to start a new life, or would he simply lose the bonus skill points and feat that a human gets?
Deekin
12-06-07, 03:34 PM Greetings fellow adventurers,

I have a human ardent, and I was just wondering...are there specific rules for becoming an Elan? It says in Expanded Psionics handbook that they are created through a ritual. If my human underwent that ritual, what would change for him? Would he become a level 1 Elan ardent, forgetting all he knew to start a new life, or would he simply lose the bonus skill points and feat that a human gets?

It's normaily a flavor thing, so Ask your DM. I'd treat it as a retraining quest from the PHBII.
InkBlot
12-06-07, 03:54 PM A human who undergoes the ritual loses everything. They become a totally blank slate, and effectively an entirely new character. Your character would not keep anything from his old life, but could make the same choices again in his new life if he wanted to.

The ritual isn't detailed anywhere. It's not in the XPH, it's not in CPsi, and it's not in the Mind's Eye. So whether or not you can do it, and what it entails, is entirely between you and your DM. Although maybe some other forum members will have suggestions for how the ritual proceeds.
The_Mess
12-06-07, 08:16 PM The result of the ritual is, canonicly, a completely blank character sheet, you come out a first level character.

That having been said, I, as DM, would certainly approve an advanced, riskier* version of the ritual that allows you to keep your levels and/or transform them into the psionic class of your choice.

* Where "riskier" is a flavor thing, not something you'd roll dice for.

Operator: "Don't you know, only 10% of the people who step into the advanced chamber walk out!" *Cue Dramatic Music*
AntiDjinn
12-06-07, 09:50 PM Basically, look at what a first level (any class) elan character gets. A first level elan is an example of someone who has undergone the ritual; if you undergo it, then that is what you will be.

Details appear to be entirely by each GM's decision for a particular game. In the official game worlds, the Eberron elan differs significantly in background (though not in mechanics) from what is in the XPH.
Zathress
12-08-07, 01:03 PM For a more helpful version.
Remove all your human racial traits, the bonus human feat and the bonus skill points you've gained then add the Elan racial traits.
SilentOne
12-08-07, 01:14 PM For a more helpful version.
Remove all your human racial traits, the bonus human feat and the bonus skill points you've gained then add the Elan racial traits.
As well as all of your class levels. ;)
Zathress
12-08-07, 01:36 PM As well as all of your class levels. ;)

I said helpful version. You keep you class levels otherwise it wouldn't be helpful.

Flavor text is not relevant for anything other then flavor text. If the DM decides that a 12th level human psion can become a 12th level Elan psion without losing a single level no rules have been broken only the flavor text.
AntiDjinn
12-08-07, 02:21 PM I said helpful version. You keep you class levels otherwise it wouldn't be helpful.

Flavor text is not relevant for anything other then flavor text. If the DM decides that a 12th level human psion can become a 12th level Elan psion without losing a single level no rules have been broken only the flavor text.
In other words, DM fiat can trump the book. So obvious it doesn't need to be stated, hardly helpful. Nothing published about elan (XPH, a minor note in Secrets of Sarlona, and a few feats in Comp. Psi.) say you keep your previous levels. If you are finding text that proves you keep your previous character levels then please post it, otherwise, the OP wasn't asking about your table rules.

In fact, unless you assume that every elan was formerly a 1st level human who somehow manage to impress the Cullers, then none of those starting elan characters kept levels from their previous lives. If an elan can keep levels from his previous life, then why don't all elan do so?
Zathress
12-08-07, 03:02 PM Once again your talking about flavor text not the rules.

The real reason Elan become 1st level is so its not a template race or a +1 LA race, because its a bit haphazard to add and remove racial traits from a character above 1st level.

Humans who become Elan don't lose there class levels for any reason other then smoother game play. The flavor text is just an in-game explanation.

That being said a wish/miracle empowered Reincarnate should do the trick.

You could also say that MOST people become Elan as young adults and the Council prefers to pick young humans with the potential to become great rather then stripping the power from those who have already become great. But if need be they can expend the extra energy to transform someone with out stripping all they learned.

EVERYTHING about Elan origin is flavor text not rules.
Eberron has different origins then the XPH. The rules aren't changed just the flavor text of there origin.
If it was decided that in Faerun that Elan were their own race independent of humans that bred true all 3 would use the same rules as written but use different flavor text.
AntiDjinn
12-08-07, 03:39 PM So in other words, No, you can't produce actual text that states you keep your character levels when you make the transition. None of the text in the XPH (all of which appears to be "flavor text" according to you) includes an example of someone who has keep his character levels after making the transition, yet you contend that all of them must. Just by chance, the examples given were first level.
Zathress
12-08-07, 08:06 PM Din can you actually read an entire post?
My point is that flavor text for a races backround should not be taken as actually rules.
Here's an example
PHBII the rules for changing your race. There I'm done. If it can be used to make a 12th level elf into 12th dwarf it can make a 99th level human into a 99th level Elan.

Now tell me oh Din man tell me where it says in the SRD that becoming an Elan means you have to start over at 1st level. It doesn't say it. The Elan racial traits don't include you start over at first level.
It doesn't because the SRD removes all flavor text which isn't relevant to actual rules this includes being an Elan.

Changing your race during gameplay is tricky venture. Thus for the Elan which are supposed to be former humans they come up with the flavor text of they start over at 1st. So they can avoid templates loss of feats and skill points.

Elan SHOULD have been handled like dragonborn from races of the dragon. There race actually changes but the retain there old level.

All you have to back up your claim is flavor text that changes from campaign to campaign world. In Eberron there is no council and under how Elan come into being there is no mention of them being reduced to level 1, just that they are a prison.

So in conclusion the starting again at level 1 when becoming an Elan is not a rule. Its a matter of convenience and simplifying things. There are no rules for becoming an Elan only the result.

Stat wise the Drow of Faerun are exactly the same as the Drow of the Greyhawk and the Drow of Eberron. However when it comes to origin, culture and such you have some major differences. Especially with Eberron compared to Faerun and Greyhawk. The rules are the same the flavor text is different.

How an Elan comes into being is flavor text until an actual ritual and how its done is lined out. If one changes the origin of Elan to being there own race apart from humans the rules have not been changed the setting has been changed.

And to repeat myself the PHBII rules for changing your race will let you go from human to elan with out losing any levels.
Fafnir
12-10-07, 10:56 AM You are talking about what should have been. The fact is, Elans do restart at level 1, as stated in the XPH. You need DM fiat, possibly using an eldritch machine, to change that. Not that it matters, since you need DM fiat to become an Elan in the first place (as opposed to starting as one).
DracoPhoenix
12-11-07, 04:06 AM Always wondered if a thought bottle could be used to restore the xp & thus allow "accelerated learning" to your pre-Elan level (less the 500xp cost)?

If he wont allow the ritual mid character life span, there's always reincarnate with wish to get an Elan body.
heavenisme
12-11-07, 09:44 AM How about polymorph? Would that work?
DracoPhoenix
12-11-07, 01:59 PM How about polymorph? Would that work?

PaO would probably be more appropriate - you're basically changing subtype

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KernOfGort 12-06-07, 03:02 PM	Greetings fellow adventurers, I have a human ardent, and I was just wondering...are there specific rules for becoming an Elan? It says in Expanded Psionics handbook that they are created through a ritual. If my human underwent that ritual, what would change for him? Would he become a level 1 Elan ardent, forgetting all he knew to start a new life, or would he simply lose the bonus skill points and feat that a human gets?
Deekin 12-06-07, 03:34 PM	Greetings fellow adventurers, I have a human ardent, and I was just wondering...are there specific rules for becoming an Elan? It says in Expanded Psionics handbook that they are created through a ritual. If my human underwent that ritual, what would change for him? Would he become a level 1 Elan ardent, forgetting all he knew to start a new life, or would he simply lose the bonus skill points and feat that a human gets? It's normaily a flavor thing, so Ask your DM. I'd treat it as a retraining quest from the PHBII.
InkBlot 12-06-07, 03:54 PM	A human who undergoes the ritual loses everything. They become a totally blank slate, and effectively an entirely new character. Your character would not keep anything from his old life, but could make the same choices again in his new life if he wanted to. The ritual isn't detailed anywhere. It's not in the XPH, it's not in CPsi, and it's not in the Mind's Eye. So whether or not you can do it, and what it entails, is entirely between you and your DM. Although maybe some other forum members will have suggestions for how the ritual proceeds.
The_Mess 12-06-07, 08:16 PM	The result of the ritual is, canonicly, a completely blank character sheet, you come out a first level character. That having been said, I, as DM, would certainly approve an advanced, riskier* version of the ritual that allows you to keep your levels and/or transform them into the psionic class of your choice. * Where "riskier" is a flavor thing, not something you'd roll dice for. Operator: "Don't you know, only 10% of the people who step into the advanced chamber walk out!" Cue Dramatic Music
AntiDjinn 12-06-07, 09:50 PM	Basically, look at what a first level (any class) elan character gets. A first level elan is an example of someone who has undergone the ritual; if you undergo it, then that is what you will be. Details appear to be entirely by each GM's decision for a particular game. In the official game worlds, the Eberron elan differs significantly in background (though not in mechanics) from what is in the XPH.
Zathress 12-08-07, 01:03 PM	For a more helpful version. Remove all your human racial traits, the bonus human feat and the bonus skill points you've gained then add the Elan racial traits.
SilentOne 12-08-07, 01:14 PM	For a more helpful version. Remove all your human racial traits, the bonus human feat and the bonus skill points you've gained then add the Elan racial traits. As well as all of your class levels. ;)
Zathress 12-08-07, 01:36 PM	As well as all of your class levels. ;) I said helpful version. You keep you class levels otherwise it wouldn't be helpful. Flavor text is not relevant for anything other then flavor text. If the DM decides that a 12th level human psion can become a 12th level Elan psion without losing a single level no rules have been broken only the flavor text.
AntiDjinn 12-08-07, 02:21 PM	I said helpful version. You keep you class levels otherwise it wouldn't be helpful. Flavor text is not relevant for anything other then flavor text. If the DM decides that a 12th level human psion can become a 12th level Elan psion without losing a single level no rules have been broken only the flavor text. In other words, DM fiat can trump the book. So obvious it doesn't need to be stated, hardly helpful. Nothing published about elan (XPH, a minor note in Secrets of Sarlona, and a few feats in Comp. Psi.) say you keep your previous levels. If you are finding text that proves you keep your previous character levels then please post it, otherwise, the OP wasn't asking about your table rules. In fact, unless you assume that every elan was formerly a 1st level human who somehow manage to impress the Cullers, then none of those starting elan characters kept levels from their previous lives. If an elan can keep levels from his previous life, then why don't all elan do so?
Zathress 12-08-07, 03:02 PM	Once again your talking about flavor text not the rules. The real reason Elan become 1st level is so its not a template race or a +1 LA race, because its a bit haphazard to add and remove racial traits from a character above 1st level. Humans who become Elan don't lose there class levels for any reason other then smoother game play. The flavor text is just an in-game explanation. That being said a wish/miracle empowered Reincarnate should do the trick. You could also say that MOST people become Elan as young adults and the Council prefers to pick young humans with the potential to become great rather then stripping the power from those who have already become great. But if need be they can expend the extra energy to transform someone with out stripping all they learned. EVERYTHING about Elan origin is flavor text not rules. Eberron has different origins then the XPH. The rules aren't changed just the flavor text of there origin. If it was decided that in Faerun that Elan were their own race independent of humans that bred true all 3 would use the same rules as written but use different flavor text.
AntiDjinn 12-08-07, 03:39 PM	So in other words, No, you can't produce actual text that states you keep your character levels when you make the transition. None of the text in the XPH (all of which appears to be "flavor text" according to you) includes an example of someone who has keep his character levels after making the transition, yet you contend that all of them must. Just by chance, the examples given were first level.
Zathress 12-08-07, 08:06 PM	Din can you actually read an entire post? My point is that flavor text for a races backround should not be taken as actually rules. Here's an example PHBII the rules for changing your race. There I'm done. If it can be used to make a 12th level elf into 12th dwarf it can make a 99th level human into a 99th level Elan. Now tell me oh Din man tell me where it says in the SRD that becoming an Elan means you have to start over at 1st level. It doesn't say it. The Elan racial traits don't include you start over at first level. It doesn't because the SRD removes all flavor text which isn't relevant to actual rules this includes being an Elan. Changing your race during gameplay is tricky venture. Thus for the Elan which are supposed to be former humans they come up with the flavor text of they start over at 1st. So they can avoid templates loss of feats and skill points. Elan SHOULD have been handled like dragonborn from races of the dragon. There race actually changes but the retain there old level. All you have to back up your claim is flavor text that changes from campaign to campaign world. In Eberron there is no council and under how Elan come into being there is no mention of them being reduced to level 1, just that they are a prison. So in conclusion the starting again at level 1 when becoming an Elan is not a rule. Its a matter of convenience and simplifying things. There are no rules for becoming an Elan only the result. Stat wise the Drow of Faerun are exactly the same as the Drow of the Greyhawk and the Drow of Eberron. However when it comes to origin, culture and such you have some major differences. Especially with Eberron compared to Faerun and Greyhawk. The rules are the same the flavor text is different. How an Elan comes into being is flavor text until an actual ritual and how its done is lined out. If one changes the origin of Elan to being there own race apart from humans the rules have not been changed the setting has been changed. And to repeat myself the PHBII rules for changing your race will let you go from human to elan with out losing any levels.
Fafnir 12-10-07, 10:56 AM	You are talking about what should have been. The fact is, Elans do restart at level 1, as stated in the XPH. You need DM fiat, possibly using an eldritch machine, to change that. Not that it matters, since you need DM fiat to become an Elan in the first place (as opposed to starting as one).
DracoPhoenix 12-11-07, 04:06 AM	Always wondered if a thought bottle could be used to restore the xp & thus allow "accelerated learning" to your pre-Elan level (less the 500xp cost)? If he wont allow the ritual mid character life span, there's always reincarnate with wish to get an Elan body.
heavenisme 12-11-07, 09:44 AM	How about polymorph? Would that work?
DracoPhoenix 12-11-07, 01:59 PM	How about polymorph? Would that work? PaO would probably be more appropriate - you're basically changing subtype