Post/Author/DateTime	Post
leomunds_assistant 05-08-07, 08:08 PM	Hey all our group had a few Dm issues, and now we have a new Dm. My last projest was bringing some respect to the Hexblade, proving to my fellow players that hexblades are good. I am proud to say that I out damaged the group rogue, and all the other casters and melee guys, with a glaive. Well, now I would like to play a psion, because I always loved psionics, and my group views it as weak. Not sure why, but once again, gotta prove his worth to the group and was wondering what discipline to choose. I am competing with a druid with a fleshraker companion, but can never decide what the best discipline really is. Thanks ahead of time, and by the way does anyone have a link to the psion handbook, if their is one?
Tempest Stormwind 05-08-07, 08:21 PM	1) How are you competing? 2) He's a druid. You're hosed no matter what you play (possible exception: Artificer).
GeminiDreams 05-08-07, 08:22 PM	I think it depends on the situation. What level would you be starting at? And what's the starting wealth like?
leomunds_assistant 05-08-07, 08:26 PM	Sorry about that, we tend to play a slight overpowered, as in if you have lower than a 15 ability score you get made fun of. We are starting at level 10, have typical wealth, and we are competing by most useful in combat, as well as other places, but mostly in combat. We tend to compete a lot, and I like to try to be the underdog, and come out top. To get a sense of our competing, last level we all kept track of highest crit, and damage. I did 3x more than the rogue, and had a higher crit than him so he was kinda mad being a rogue and all. I hope this helps and I know that I can outdo the druid. Oh yeah, forgot to mention I am being a Elan.
Tempest Stormwind 05-08-07, 08:40 PM	If all you care about is damage output, play a kineticist and go nova with Energy Missile and similar big-boom powers. Be sure to understand metapsionics (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-298304) before doing so, and read up on nova techniques. If you're trying to dispel the psionics-are-weak argument, bust out the broken powers (Synchronicity in particular, along with Bestow Power -- Synchronicity alone can enable some seriously impressive novas if you apply yourself to it) and lay some serious smack down; if you're trying to show that they're competitive, you won't need anything special beyond a brain. That said: A shaper or a telepath will prove more useful in controlling the battlefield and debilitating an opponent (shapers arguably do it better, but telepaths do it with more subtlety and can apply it easier in social circumstances), while a seer can provide more information than all but the very best diviners (spammable info-gathering powers, especially ones that can function in ways the DM cannot easily foil, are WIN IN A CAN. Read those second-level Seer powers!). An egoist can turn into a melee beast, and a nomad has several effects that aren't replicated *anywhere* else in the game, particularly where time is involved. ...However, none of these except the egoist actually deal serious damage -- and the egoist relies on Metamorphosis to do it, which is functionally similar to (and possibly superior to, I don't keep up on shapechanging) the druid's wild shape + natural spell, except that the druid comes with an animal companion, summonable friends, and incredible buff spells for his animal legion, himself, and the whole party. My preferred psion discipline is shaper, followed by seer and telepath, because all of these can support their party in ways others cannot. My shaper does not deal a lot of damage -- her most damaging effects are generally augmented energy powers (or a smite from an astral construct, if it hits). However, her true strength lies in defending the team -- be it from creating powerful constructs to tank and absorb damage, to Ectoplasmic Cocooning significant enemies, to Energy Walling areas as a deterrent, to using Ectoplasmic Strand (an update of an old Mind's Eye power, essentially it creates a rope between two targets that you have to hit with ranged touch attacks) to great and diverse effect, to providing the whole team with mild DR (Hyperconscious power of Crysalis), to fetching specialized gear via Minor Creation, I'm literally options personified. However, damage is not the strongest one of those options -- I leave that to the rest of the team.
leomunds_assistant 05-08-07, 08:45 PM	Thinking now, I could let the others get some more glory while I sit back and protect them, I will go shaper. There is this feat that allows you to meld your constructs to you and get their special abilities like fly and so on, would you reccomend this feat?
Tempest Stormwind 05-08-07, 08:59 PM	Thinking now, I could let the others get some more glory while I sit back and protect them, I will go shaper. There is this feat that allows you to meld your constructs to you and get their special abilities like fly and so on, would you reccomend this feat? Skin of the Construct is, in general, a terrible, terrible feat. If you want to wear an astral construct despite you not being built for battle, you should look in third-party sources -- Hyperconscious has the Astral Zealot PrC, which slowly gives you advanced abilities of astral constructs (including DR, menu abilities, a higher Fort save, and so on), while Untapped Potential has the Ectoskeleton power (greater power potential, but limited in duration and relatively high power point cost) and the Astral Juggernaut power (the joke in-house title for this power during development was Summon Ectoplasmic Gundam). For more information on those books, see the FAQ at the top of the forum.
Kiklio 05-08-07, 09:00 PM	You're thinking most likely of Skin of the Construct, from Complete Psionic. Do not use Complete Psionic. In particular, Complete Psionic limits Astral Construct to 1 construct at a time. There is no reason for this. In addition, Complete Psionic provides you with suboptimal uses of your resources involving astral constructs (ectopic forms). At best, Complete Psionic is a distraction (as far as shaping is involved), at worst, a shaper's foil. Talk with your DM if he owns the book. Don't try and hide the WotC revision, but make him ask himself if there's a reason for the revision. He will say, "no", and all will be right with the world. Skin of the Construct doesn't give you much; you're better off having a construct pick you up and flying you where you need to go. I do not recommend it. So pick up Boost Construct and go into the Constructor prestige class from The Mind's Eye. Your DM should be fine with Mind's Eye is he's fine with fleshrakers or whatever the heck the druid is using. If you can, play a Devoted Shaper from Untapped Potential. You won't lose much utility, and you gain a ML to offset the loss from Constructor. Take Overchannel, too. That should balance you with the druid, even if he uses material like Greenbound Summoning.
leomunds_assistant 05-08-07, 10:28 PM	Alright, I was just looking at a list of all the feats and noticed, but wanted an opinion before I got it. Thanks for all the input though :)
Millenia 05-08-07, 10:40 PM	Ectoplasmic Strand (an update of an old Mind's Eye power, essentially it creates a rope between two targets that you have to hit with ranged touch attacks) to great and diverse effect How was it updated? :o
TheDarkLord 05-08-07, 10:46 PM	while a seer can provide more information than all but the very best diviners (spammable info-gathering powers, especially ones that can function in ways the DM cannot easily foil, are WIN IN A CAN. Read those second-level Seer powers!). The two most underrated specialists in DnD; 1. Diviner 2. Seer. As a DM I fear having these specialist moreso than a planar shepherd druid combo. At least I can deal with the druid legally, divination is a royal pain in the ass when the players do it right.
Tempest Stormwind 05-08-07, 11:29 PM	How was it updated? :o Houserule. My shaper has a few houseruled effects: Astral Worker (an augment to Astral Construct that functions somewhat like the old astral taskers), Ectoplasmic Strand (described above, it's a first-level effect now with a better augment; text will follow), Astral Drone (the old Astral Spider power with a few minor changes), Sudden Creation (augment to Minor, and later Major, creation to speed up the creation time), Restore Object (augment to Repair Damage, functions like Make Whole, augments to reverse disintegration, burning, warping etc. but if pieces are missing (ash blown away, for instance) the final product is incomplete), and a potential augment for Energy Wall, currently unfinished. All except the strand and the drone were paid for with XP as if researching a new power. Ectoplasmic Strand functions as it did before, almost identically: the break DC is slightly higher to begin with. The power augments, extending the range (multiples of the base range) or the hardness/break DC of the rope. Of all my powers, it's probably the one that has caused the most interesting results -- in one encounter, I had a construct bull rush the BBEG back until she tripped over one statue's plinth, then ectostranded the statue's twin to the construct and had it charge away from the BBEG, pulling the statue off its plinth and down onto her prone form, for instance. She made the reflex save, but it made for a damn cool effect. In another, I'd tightly stranded a prone enemy's weapon arm to the ground on the other side of her body (go go action points on making those rolls), forcing her to move in a particular pattern if she wanted to stand -- a pattern that provoked AoOs from multiple allies. I'm considering researching an augment that adds it to the list of astral construct menu abilities (possibly as an alternative slam attack, provided one end of the strand is stuck to the construct and as long as the strand is extended that arm is unusable for attacks), but I haven't written it down or given it to the DM yet. (In case you're curious, I got the idea from a combination of the Zelekhut inevitable and a God of War kill (http://youtube.com/watch?v=kKFOxSNAFAk) (the Hades Minotaur in particular; 1:48. Bad quality, but only vid I could find). Besides, we have a Judge Dredd type in our party -- the thought of him mounted on a construct that rides into battle and ties up the guy he's trying to manacle would be one hell of an image.) If you're interested I can send the precise rule text to you. (My DM for this game is DisposableHero; we both stand by the rules implemented.)
Doublecross 05-08-07, 11:54 PM	Tempest, I've seen you note your houserule augment to Astral Construct a number of times on the board; would you be willing to share the specifics? My own DM is curious as well.
Millenia 05-09-07, 12:01 AM	I see... I'd love to see the house rules, actually. :o ... Though I should probably stop derailing this thread. ^^;;a
Tempest Stormwind 05-09-07, 12:10 AM	Tempest, I've seen you note your houserule augment to Astral Construct a number of times on the board; would you be willing to share the specifics? My own DM is curious as well. It's actually based on an option I saw on these boards earlier (I forget the original author) and still somewhat in development in terms of menu options; the general idea is that Astral Construct's manifesting time is increased to 1 minute in exchange for its duration going up to an hour per level. The construct created has no natural armor, half the hit points of a normal construct, "mental safeguards" that prevent it from attacking (anything that'd break an Invisibility spell), and a special list of menu abilities designed for long-duration workers: Fly is a B option, for instance, and A has Overland Movement and Quadrupedal, while no level has anything offensive (Muscle is still on the list, but without attacks it has no damage to alter). The most interesting is a chain of choices called Awareness, which grant the construct an Intelligence score (but no free will) and the ability to understand a language specified by the creator; this is mostly used to let other party members give the worker orders without going through its creator, to let it signal back on complicated stimuli ('if you see an orc, light the torch and throw it into their formation') and to give it the ability to accept more complex tasks without hand-holding (remember how Unseen Servants have to be told to put down what they're holding, open doors, then pick it back up? Yeah, not the case with Awareness. Even Int 3, what the level A Awareness grants, is enough to handle that). Higher level Awareness options provide it with a higher Intelligence and either Craft or Profession skills. I haven't yet come up with Advanced Construction options for it if a Constructor wants it (given how it's pretty much a better implementation of Utility Construct, but available earlier, I can't see why a constructor wouldn't want it. We've had to come up with a better level 7 ability for the class as a result.) We've used it to create teamsters to tow a wagon an extended period of time (not quite as fast as horses, but constructs need no rest for persistent overland movement; call it an Eberron Model A), make porters for heavy loads, create temporary staff at an inn (well, that happened off-camera), and most commonly create what we call The Rogue. (When we started, we didn't have a character with Trapfinding, so we sent an Awareness/Celerity worker in first. He was our 10' pole -- "The Rogue will search for traps" = the worker running down the hall and triggering anything. We liked the little guy so much that he still shows up from time to time as a fall guy or general do-all, even though we've got a trapscout now.) At higher levels I could theoretically use AC4s to create crew for an airship or sailing ship (Menu B grants one skill, which could be Profession) or craftsman on a similar idea. But enough derailment; I apologize.
Lokiyn 05-09-07, 12:54 AM	Shapers shine with a history major and a minor in alchemy. Or to save time take a gander (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D747757)
leomunds_assistant 05-09-07, 06:03 PM	Very nice, who new that minor creation was so useful?
leomunds_assistant 05-09-07, 07:00 PM	Sorry for the double post, but this what I have so far. Elan Psion/10 Feats: Enhanced Elan Resilience Imprint stone Boost Construct Extend power Scribe Tatoo Psionic Body Quicken Power 24int for a total of 121pp Powers: Lv1 crystal shard, inertial armor, skate, bolt, control flame Lv2 Body equilibrium, Detect hostile intent, psionic lock, biofeedback Lv3 Body adjustment, energy bolt, touch sight, energy wall Lv4 Dimension door psionic, Freedom of movement, psychic reformation, wall of ectoplasm Lv5 True seeing, incarnate, psychic crush, adapt body Any Comments? Any suggestions? Once again thnx :)
CrimsonDeath 05-09-07, 07:13 PM	Be careful not to go crazy with Elan Resilience. You have HP for a reason; don't be afraid to take a little damage once in a while. Granted, you can't manifest powers if you're dead, but having full HP won't help much if you're out of PP.
leomunds_assistant 05-09-07, 07:17 PM	Be careful not to go crazy with Elan Resilience. You have HP for a reason; don't be afraid to take a little damage once in a while. Granted, you can't manifest powers if you're dead, but having full HP won't help much if you're out of PP. Yeah I know, but we play a very battle oriented game, so I got it as a last resort, like when the crit me, or sneak attack etc.
carnivore 05-09-07, 07:34 PM	try looking here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=624041 as for your Build: Feats: Enhanced Elan Resilience Imprint stone Boost Construct Extend power Scribe Tatoo Psionic Body Quicken Power Enhanced Elan Resilience..... is not great(the effect is... but you could choose a better feat) Boost Construct....not needed if you dont take Astral Construct the creation feats are more campaign relative....... is it a Low Magic/Psionic campaign...if so, make your own stuff...otherwise...there are other feats that are better: try these: Psionic Body.....................bonus Psicrystal Affinity Extend Power Psicrystal Containment.......bonus Psionic Meditation Quicken Power Burrowing Power................Bonus 24int for a total of 121pp Powers: Lv1 crystal shard, inertial armor, skate, bolt, control flame Lv2 Body equilibrium, Detect hostile intent, psionic lock, biofeedback Lv3 Body adjustment, energy bolt, touch sight, energy wall Lv4 Dimension door psionic, Freedom of movement, psychic reformation, wall of ectoplasm Lv5 True seeing, incarnate, psychic crush, adapt body try these(it assumes XPH only): 1st Astral Construct Minor Creation Inertial Armor Control Flames Vigor 2nd Share Pain Detect Hostile intent Ego Whip Concussion Blast 3rd Dispel Psionics Time Hop Touchsight Energy wall 4th Fabricate Wall of Ectoplasm Psionic Divination Correspond 5th Hail of Crystals Plane Shift Adapt Body Ectoplasmic Shambler :D
leomunds_assistant 05-09-07, 07:58 PM	I am using srd, and am a shaper so automatically have the shaper list ( I think, otherwise do I need to actually choose those spells, as they are available not you get them for free?), and don't really want a psycrystal for flavor purposes. Otherwise thanks for the power list, I will modify what I can to my liking :)
The_Ditto 05-09-07, 08:15 PM	My suggestion? Psion 5 / Constructor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b) 5 (and check my sig out for a spreadsheet to help you out with those astral constructs .. :tiphat: ) At 10th level .. using Constructor ... you'll have 2x Boost Construct feats, and constructs that last 10 min ... ;) (just don't expend your focus ... ) you get the shaper list to pick powers from .. you don't get them automagically ... er, autopsionically .. :uh-huh:
leomunds_assistant 05-09-07, 08:43 PM	Very nice.. I will definately pick up Constructor. Thnx a lot.