blasphemy: psionic X Spells to psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

blasphemy: psionic X Spells to psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ElyasRavenwood
02-24-07, 01:26 PM Psionic X Spells to psionics

I have been devouring my Secrets of Sarlona book happily.
At first I immediately turned to the new powers section. I was irritated when I saw Dream lock Psionic, Dream Lock psionic, mass and Dream spirit psionic---- see spell description.
I then thought, “Why can’t they do it the other way around…. Dream lock Arcane, See psionic power description. And then I saw the side bar on page 133 “ common powers of Sarlona. They listed a conversion table for quite a few spells. I felt let down. New psionics materiel and this is the best they can do? I understand it is a source book with lots of fluff, which I am happily devouring, but I wanted a little crunch good crunch, not arcane warmed over crunch. I am not a fan of Psionic X. However I will admit after reading the list some of the spells I saw some spells such as Tenesr's Floating Disc and I though this makes perfect sense as a psionic power.
II have a hankering for more psionic materiel, I have two psionic characters one who is a 15 level erudite and another 4 level erudite. I want more powers to choose from. I have Hyper consciousness, Untapped Potential, If thoughts could kill, and a bunch of other stuff. I still want more. (I know I am being greedy)

After reading that list, my grumblings aside, I had to admit, converting spells both arcane and divine, might be a good idea for more powers. After all a wizard has a vast array of published WOTC books to choose from and an erudite has much, much fewer powers to choose from.

I am going to suggest what some people might consider blasphemy. Perhaps there are quite a few spells that can be converted with little difficulty to psionic powers. The trick will be to try and maintain the psionic feel of the power and avoid the Psionic x appearance.
I suppose I have two questions. First what are the general themes that psionic powers cover and what are the design tendencies that separate a psionic power from an arcane/ divine spell?
And my next question would be can anyone suggest some spells that could be converted, and would make a ready addition to the psionic power list without looking like a cut and paste job?
(I know it seemed the complete psionic book seemed to be full of lazy cut and paste examples transposing something form the arcane to the psionic)

I will be interested to hear peoples thoughts comments, and I will try to duck the tomatoes thrown in my direction.
Sines
02-24-07, 07:10 PM Most spells under Conjuration could be done, just change it to making ectoplasm and shaping it. Only Cold, Electric, Fire and Sonic for energy however, and the power should probably allow choice of energy.

Anything related to the mind (Probably most Mind-Affecting effects) is justifieable. Just keep more of the nicer onces Telepath only.

I'm not a huge fan of large amounts of Psionic X myself, but its an easy and quick way to expand the somewhat small power list.
RavinRay
02-24-07, 09:56 PM Well, what I've done is to convert the aboleth's (the arcane one in MM, not the psionic one in XPH) psionic spell-like abilities into powers, since they are after all considered psionic. As they are all light-manipulating effects, they're all in the psychokinesis discipline (most in the erudite/psion/wilder list) with the Light descriptor. I think that's fair enough. Only, I've given them somewhat sci-fi names like hologram, for lack of a better word.
ElyasRavenwood
02-24-07, 11:33 PM Thanks for the ideas.
I was expecting to get shredded.
Bacris
02-24-07, 11:39 PM IMO, any spell that manipulates the four energy types (i.e. not acid), force-based effects, mind-affecting effects, knowledge-based effects, self-augmenting effects, creation effects, and teleportation effects are all open to psionic conversion. Acid I could see as a metacreativity or psychometabolism effect (wasn't that how it worked in 3.0? You secreted acid from your pores?)

Yes, that's a lot of stuff :D But heck, that's what the 6 disciplines can do.
AntiDjinn
02-25-07, 01:24 AM They do ports because they are basically free. Making a new power or spell means paying someone to develop the material. Simply making a power of the same name as an existing spell and asking the reader to see the text of that spell increases the number of powers for next to no effort. For some things it makes perfect sense for the same effect to exist nearly identically under multiple realms of magic; detecting your own craft is pretty basic, so it is not surprising that detect magic and detect psionics exist, duplicate each other, and the effect is available to virtually all casters. There are other effects that are classic effects for multiple caster types such as Charm for bards, mages, and telepaths. But at least Psionic Charm is different from the spell; someone took the time to tweak the concept to make it more than just another "see the spell."

With too much porting and not enough original design, material eventually runs the risk of becoming homogenized fill-in-the-blank pabulum. When you see monster books that advertise hundreds of new monsters (red dragon, green dragon, gold dragon, purple dragon, plaid dragon,....) or that purport to have dozens of new playable races (high elf, grey elf, half-elf, moon elf, sun elf, spirit elf, river elf, sea elf, snow elf, desert elf, dark elf, fire elf, blah, blah, blah....) You are seeing the effect of someone who thinks filling in a grid is being creative. When unimaginative people want to feel creative they generally foster symmetry. Sitting down and making psionics symmetrical with magic by making exact copies of existing spells only serves to make psionics less unique and makes fans pay for a copy of material they already own.
RavinRay
02-25-07, 01:52 AM Fair enough, AntiDjinn. By what you've said, I'm guilty of that in my aboleth conversions, with just a few augmentations IIRC to match two related spells that scale in effect (which psionic charm does with the way it affects more monster types with more power points, compared to the various charm spells).

AFAIK, however, there is one case of a power that appeared first, and then the same name was applied to a spell with a similar effect: ectoplasmic armor, which appeared in the 3.0 Psionics Handbook, precedes the arcane ectoplasmic armor in Libris Mortis and Spell Compendium, and then was not updated in the 3.5 XPH.
AntiDjinn
02-25-07, 02:27 AM Conversions that actually take diferences in mechanics into account and do more than simply paste the ",Psionic" onto an effect are (generally) acceptable. Even better is filling the same niche without duplicating the effect: Disable instead of Sleep,Psionic.

And the psionic aboleth is fine in a game where it is supposed to be the aboleth. DM's who prefer psionic versions of aboleths, illithid, and gith generally use them in place of arcane versions. You wouldn't generally have a bunch of standard (magic-using) aboleth in the same game with psionic aboleth, divine aboleth, shadow aboleth, incarnum aboleth, etc. If your version replaces the standard version then it is an alternate, not a Psionic X.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ElyasRavenwood 02-24-07, 01:26 PM	Psionic X Spells to psionics I have been devouring my Secrets of Sarlona book happily. At first I immediately turned to the new powers section. I was irritated when I saw Dream lock Psionic, Dream Lock psionic, mass and Dream spirit psionic---- see spell description. I then thought, “Why can’t they do it the other way around…. Dream lock Arcane, See psionic power description. And then I saw the side bar on page 133 “ common powers of Sarlona. They listed a conversion table for quite a few spells. I felt let down. New psionics materiel and this is the best they can do? I understand it is a source book with lots of fluff, which I am happily devouring, but I wanted a little crunch good crunch, not arcane warmed over crunch. I am not a fan of Psionic X. However I will admit after reading the list some of the spells I saw some spells such as Tenesr's Floating Disc and I though this makes perfect sense as a psionic power. II have a hankering for more psionic materiel, I have two psionic characters one who is a 15 level erudite and another 4 level erudite. I want more powers to choose from. I have Hyper consciousness, Untapped Potential, If thoughts could kill, and a bunch of other stuff. I still want more. (I know I am being greedy) After reading that list, my grumblings aside, I had to admit, converting spells both arcane and divine, might be a good idea for more powers. After all a wizard has a vast array of published WOTC books to choose from and an erudite has much, much fewer powers to choose from. I am going to suggest what some people might consider blasphemy. Perhaps there are quite a few spells that can be converted with little difficulty to psionic powers. The trick will be to try and maintain the psionic feel of the power and avoid the Psionic x appearance. I suppose I have two questions. First what are the general themes that psionic powers cover and what are the design tendencies that separate a psionic power from an arcane/ divine spell? And my next question would be can anyone suggest some spells that could be converted, and would make a ready addition to the psionic power list without looking like a cut and paste job? (I know it seemed the complete psionic book seemed to be full of lazy cut and paste examples transposing something form the arcane to the psionic) I will be interested to hear peoples thoughts comments, and I will try to duck the tomatoes thrown in my direction.
Sines 02-24-07, 07:10 PM	Most spells under Conjuration could be done, just change it to making ectoplasm and shaping it. Only Cold, Electric, Fire and Sonic for energy however, and the power should probably allow choice of energy. Anything related to the mind (Probably most Mind-Affecting effects) is justifieable. Just keep more of the nicer onces Telepath only. I'm not a huge fan of large amounts of Psionic X myself, but its an easy and quick way to expand the somewhat small power list.
RavinRay 02-24-07, 09:56 PM	Well, what I've done is to convert the aboleth's (the arcane one in MM, not the psionic one in XPH) psionic spell-like abilities into powers, since they are after all considered psionic. As they are all light-manipulating effects, they're all in the psychokinesis discipline (most in the erudite/psion/wilder list) with the Light descriptor. I think that's fair enough. Only, I've given them somewhat sci-fi names like hologram, for lack of a better word.
ElyasRavenwood 02-24-07, 11:33 PM	Thanks for the ideas. I was expecting to get shredded.
Bacris 02-24-07, 11:39 PM	IMO, any spell that manipulates the four energy types (i.e. not acid), force-based effects, mind-affecting effects, knowledge-based effects, self-augmenting effects, creation effects, and teleportation effects are all open to psionic conversion. Acid I could see as a metacreativity or psychometabolism effect (wasn't that how it worked in 3.0? You secreted acid from your pores?) Yes, that's a lot of stuff :D But heck, that's what the 6 disciplines can do.
AntiDjinn 02-25-07, 01:24 AM	They do ports because they are basically free. Making a new power or spell means paying someone to develop the material. Simply making a power of the same name as an existing spell and asking the reader to see the text of that spell increases the number of powers for next to no effort. For some things it makes perfect sense for the same effect to exist nearly identically under multiple realms of magic; detecting your own craft is pretty basic, so it is not surprising that detect magic and detect psionics exist, duplicate each other, and the effect is available to virtually all casters. There are other effects that are classic effects for multiple caster types such as Charm for bards, mages, and telepaths. But at least Psionic Charm is different from the spell; someone took the time to tweak the concept to make it more than just another "see the spell." With too much porting and not enough original design, material eventually runs the risk of becoming homogenized fill-in-the-blank pabulum. When you see monster books that advertise hundreds of new monsters (red dragon, green dragon, gold dragon, purple dragon, plaid dragon,....) or that purport to have dozens of new playable races (high elf, grey elf, half-elf, moon elf, sun elf, spirit elf, river elf, sea elf, snow elf, desert elf, dark elf, fire elf, blah, blah, blah....) You are seeing the effect of someone who thinks filling in a grid is being creative. When unimaginative people want to feel creative they generally foster symmetry. Sitting down and making psionics symmetrical with magic by making exact copies of existing spells only serves to make psionics less unique and makes fans pay for a copy of material they already own.
RavinRay 02-25-07, 01:52 AM	Fair enough, AntiDjinn. By what you've said, I'm guilty of that in my aboleth conversions, with just a few augmentations IIRC to match two related spells that scale in effect (which psionic charm does with the way it affects more monster types with more power points, compared to the various charm spells). AFAIK, however, there is one case of a power that appeared first, and then the same name was applied to a spell with a similar effect: ectoplasmic armor, which appeared in the 3.0 Psionics Handbook, precedes the arcane ectoplasmic armor in Libris Mortis and Spell Compendium, and then was not updated in the 3.5 XPH.
AntiDjinn 02-25-07, 02:27 AM	Conversions that actually take diferences in mechanics into account and do more than simply paste the ",Psionic" onto an effect are (generally) acceptable. Even better is filling the same niche without duplicating the effect: Disable instead of Sleep,Psionic. And the psionic aboleth is fine in a game where it is supposed to be the aboleth. DM's who prefer psionic versions of aboleths, illithid, and gith generally use them in place of arcane versions. You wouldn't generally have a bunch of standard (magic-using) aboleth in the same game with psionic aboleth, divine aboleth, shadow aboleth, incarnum aboleth, etc. If your version replaces the standard version then it is an alternate, not a Psionic X.