| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Magon05-13-07, 02:10 PM | i've been tinking of making a blind psion (it could be cool)..... specialisation (spelled?) as a seer or a telepath..... what do you think? also what do you think would be fair to balance out the hadicap? |
| Deekin05-13-07, 02:13 PM | Nothing. Being blind sucks. As a blind person, I doubt you would become an adventurer. Blind People are a bad idea. |
| Magon05-13-07, 02:15 PM | maybe i should add that i dont want unconstruktive replys, but i thought it was a no brainer |
| Tempest Stormwind05-13-07, 02:19 PM | In general, he's right. Thus, find a way around your blindness. Synesthete and Touchsight are the way to go here, although it sucks to have to constantly remanifest them. |
| Magon05-13-07, 02:23 PM | of course i'd use them but if i had them on all the time a wouldent really be blind, right? maybe a constant aura sight or read thoughts... hmm and of course a lot of skill points in listen... |
| Tempest Stormwind05-13-07, 02:33 PM | of course i'd use them but if i had them on all the time a wouldent really be blind, right? maybe a constant aura sight or read thoughts... hmm and of course a lot of skill points in listen... If you were blind all the time, what in blazes are you doing diving into treacherous ruins or exploring the wildlands? You're an adventurer; being crippled doesn't make you a better-roleplayed character, it just makes you crippled. What you're looking for, effectively, is trading vision for something far better. Something for (almost) nothing, as it were. Ask yourself this: Would your ability be too extravagantly priced (at your level) for a continuous item of it in the form of a blindfold? If the answer's yes, you're either too low a level or aiming too high with what you want. |
| JulesCARV05-13-07, 02:37 PM | Look, Magon wants to play a blind psion. That's a character concept that apparently he'd enjoy. Why is the idea of playing a character you'd enjoy so terrrible? Anyway, I'd treat blindness as a flaw, which could be traded for a bonus feat. It's more severe than most flaws, but arguably could be worth a feat if you find ways to compensate with synaesthete and similar powers. It's hard to think of a feat that would make blindness worthwhile, but if you're into the idea of a blind psion, then having an extra feat might at least keep the character viable, even if not as powerful as a similar psion who didn't have the flaw of blindness and a feat. |
| Magon05-13-07, 02:46 PM | Look, Magon wants to play a blind psion. That's a character concept that apparently he'd enjoy. Why is the idea of playing a character you'd enjoy so terrrible? Anyway, I'd treat blindness as a flaw, which could be traded for a bonus feat. It's more severe than most flaws, but arguably could be worth a feat if you find ways to compensate with synaesthete and similar powers. It's hard to think of a feat that would make blindness worthwhile, but if you're into the idea of a blind psion, then having an extra feat might at least keep the character viable, even if not as powerful as a similar psion who didn't have the flaw of blindness and a feat. yay something i can actualy use |
| awaken_D_M_golem05-13-07, 03:02 PM | Your Psicrystal can see for you under any circumstances. Send it out to do your dirty work for you. Or it can "Ride" you, and emote/talk/ then telepath what's going on. Magic Jar, Mind Switch, and True Mind Switch are interesting ideas with a psicrystal. Are there any Blind monsters with an LA that are playable ? |
| Grizzled Gryphon05-13-07, 03:02 PM | Just a thought, but in the Sword of Truth series, there is a sorceress that is blind. And yet, through her 'gift'(magic) she can percieve the world just fine. Perhaps something like that is what you are looking for? However, if you do do something like this, then you aren't really blind, are you? Being Blind is a handicap that either you overcome with magic or whatever, and thus can adventure, or you don't overcome, and can't do much of anything. People you see that are blind manage to do things in one of sevral ways. Someone helps them. They know the area intamitly. They have a seeing eye dog, which is effectively someone helping them. these all can only be done with any success in a controlled enviroment. A blind person out in the wilderness in a game world is merely something's lunch, waiting to be eaten. In the end, you will basically have a character that can see, just not with eyes. If the other form of 'sight' you have is no better than actual vision, then there is no need for a bonus feat or anything, as you are no better or worse than any other person. The Spot skill works the same for you, as well as search. both indicate if you notice something with your senses. Now, if your other sense lets you 'see' things that othr people need a spell, power, or the like to notice, then you have to give something up for it. Just ask the DM if you can have a blind person that can instead, feel his surroundings through sound, and touch. Make sure you point out to him that it isn't any better than actual sight, aside form being unaffected by darkness. That isn't a big enough dea, mechanics wise, to matter. I would allow it. |
| Nakat05-13-07, 03:20 PM | Psicrystal, 40ft Sighted in any lighting conditions, with a telepathic link to you and the personality that either gives you a bonus in sense motive or Listen, as to your personality. I think the real problem is that you basically can't manifest an ability past very very close range like that. |
| Magon05-13-07, 03:37 PM | Just a thought, but in the Sword of Truth series, there is a sorceress that is blind. And yet, through her 'gift'(magic) she can percieve the world just fine. Perhaps something like that is what you are looking for? However, if you do do something like this, then you aren't really blind, are you? Being Blind is a handicap that either you overcome with magic or whatever, and thus can adventure, or you don't overcome, and can't do much of anything. People you see that are blind manage to do things in one of sevral ways. Someone helps them. They know the area intamitly. They have a seeing eye dog, which is effectively someone helping them. these all can only be done with any success in a controlled enviroment. A blind person out in the wilderness in a game world is merely something's lunch, waiting to be eaten. In the end, you will basically have a character that can see, just not with eyes. If the other form of 'sight' you have is no better than actual vision, then there is no need for a bonus feat or anything, as you are no better or worse than any other person. The Spot skill works the same for you, as well as search. both indicate if you notice something with your senses. Now, if your other sense lets you 'see' things that othr people need a spell, power, or the like to notice, then you have to give something up for it. Just ask the DM if you can have a blind person that can instead, feel his surroundings through sound, and touch. Make sure you point out to him that it isn't any better than actual sight, aside form being unaffected by darkness. That isn't a big enough dea, mechanics wise, to matter. I would allow it. no that is exatly waht i dont want. but a permanent detect thought or aura sight would be cool. and if i already have psi powers, it would only be natural that the ones i'd use for navigation in the world would be trained to the point where i dont even think about it.... |
| periscope05-13-07, 03:54 PM | I believe Synesthete can be made permanent with an incarnate power if your willing to pay for it. There are also 4 feats that can help. I believe 2 are in the Complete Adventurer book (one makes it easier to pinpoint someone with sound and one that lets you make a listen check every round as a free action), one in the PHB II that can let you identify what it is making that sound (oh thats a shadow demon above you), and blind fight. Had a player play a zatoichi copy using these. |
| Magon05-13-07, 04:02 PM | I believe Synesthete can be made permanent with an incarnate power if your willing to pay for it. There are also 4 feats that can help. I believe 2 are in the Complete Adventurer book (one makes it easier to pinpoint someone with sound and one that lets you make a listen check every round as a free action), one in the PHB II that can let you identify what it is making that sound (oh thats a shadow demon above you), and blind fight. Had a player play a zatoichi copy using these. yay usefull stuff |
| calronmoonflower05-13-07, 04:05 PM | You could possibly replace their sight with the visual abilities of a psicrystal. Also this reminds me of a ability that I came up for a psionic monster that I scaped. It could be of use here. maybe Trading it for regular sight would be a fair tradeoff. Psionic Sight (Su): A creature with psionic sight has a supernatural 6th sense. It can detect anything in a 30 foot burst that can be seen in normal light, but cannot make out colors or texture and can detect invisible and incorporeal creatures or objects. This sense allows the creature to make a save against any illusion as if they have interacted with it along with a +2 circumstance bonus. This also negates a many conventional forms of concealment and even some magical ones, DM’s option. |
| Magon05-13-07, 04:10 PM | i do not want something that simply makes me "see" without using my eyes |
| Deekin05-13-07, 04:26 PM | So you want to make a person that is blind, and cannot see at all? Isn't that like asking how to make a paraplegic wizard work? These are people that should not be adventuring. |
| Magon05-13-07, 04:30 PM | So you want to make a person that is blind, and cannot see at all? Isn't that like asking how to make a paraplegic wizard work? These are people that should not be adventuring. not "cannot see at all" but rather "can only see weary limmeted" (trugh the feats periscope mentiond, and magical effects) |
| Lycanthromancer05-13-07, 05:39 PM | Look at my 'Psicrystal o' Death' thread. That build could be a viable one for a blind character. Or, you could get a nomad, take ranks in Ride, give yourself a special harness, and have your psicrystal make Ride checks. It'd be...well, a seeing-eye crystal. If your crystal gets feats, then have it take riding-based feats. |
| Lokiyn05-13-07, 05:53 PM | Congradulations, you are now blind. This is what you get Blinded The character cannot see. He takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character. Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them. Enjoy Seriously, you get nothing for being blind. Period. If you play a blind charater enjoy a short lifespan and the existance of an exp sponge. If you want to be useful you have to bypass being blind, which in effect defeats the whole purpose of being blind. You might as well start off at level 6 and be a psion "x" 5/ Crystal Master 1 and go with Sapphire: The crystal master gains touchsight as the power. Her touchsight field emanates out to 20 feet, increasing by +10 feet per additional embedded gem to a maximum of 60 feet. This ability is active as long as the crystal master maintains psionic focus. Any lower than that and you wind up a worthless drain of party resources. Besides what's with the mentality that horrible handicap A must be balanced with awsome ability B? You're blind. i've yet to hear anyone talk about how awsome being blind is compare to, you know wandering around lost in the woods hitting a tree every third step or so. |
| ShaRd200005-13-07, 06:44 PM | Blindfold of True Darkness (A&eG pg. 130) gives you blindsight out to 60 feet, and has the stipulation that you cannot use normal vision in any way. Not that you could, being blind and all. But anyways, you could have something of a lesser version of it, like, blindsight out to 20 feet. |
| JulesCARV05-13-07, 07:35 PM | Look, y'all, in real life, blindness doesn't give any benefits. However, in real life, being weak doesn't give any benefits either. Nor being stupid. Nor being clumsy. Nor being unhealthy. Yet D&D's character generation is based on some concept of balance. If someone says, "I want a kinda scrawny, weak character. What benefits do I get for that?" the benefits are already built into the system. If you're using 4d6 drop the lowest, you put a low score into strength, which means that you can put a higher score into some other ability score. If you're using point buy, you have extra points, which you use to buy higher scores in other abilities. In real life, at least as far as I can tell, there's no reason to think a weaker person is likely to be smarter, or that a healthier person is likely to be less charismatic. There are no tradeoffs. If I'm stupid, poor me. I don't get any compensation for that, although I might be lucky and be good at something else, but if I'm stupid but strong, that's because I got unlucky in intelligence and lucky with strength, not because there's any sort of "tradeoff" between them. Blindness isn't clearly incorporated into the rules like low ability scores is, but I think it's being a bit obtuse to say, "well, blindness doesn't really have any benefits in real life, so it shouldn't give you benefits in D&D either." Huh? Isn't "my character is bad at some things, but good at other things" part of the assumption of how D&D character mechanics should work? Now, what Magon seems to want -- aura sight and detect thoughts at will -- is, in my opinion, overpowered as a tradeoff for blindness, but I find it hard to comprehend the insistence that blindness should just not be compensated. |
| Millenia05-13-07, 07:44 PM | Do note that even if you do find a way to get blindsight or whatever, do note that you cannot manifest powers that specify a target (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#targetorTarget s) (such as Psionic Charm's "one humanoid") without touching them, which means that you either get your Psicrystal to do the touch, or you get yourself to do it, which are both risky propositions. As such, I do not recommend being a blind telepath. Something such as shaper or seer or kineticist, though, can be better, as shapers can just tell their constructs to lay the smack down on the person closest to the shaper, the seer can just help behind the scenes with divinations and stuff, and kineticists can just use the Hear the Unseen feat (from Complete Adventurer) (despite having listen as cross-class) to aim their area-affecting powers to blow stuff up. |
| munin05-13-07, 09:01 PM | Besides what's with the mentality that horrible handicap A must be balanced with awsome ability B? Traits from Unearthed Arcana. The blinded condition description specifically mentions that "Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.". It seems to me that a psionic character who has grown up blind might naturally develop better hearing and an ability to "sense" nearby surroundings, which I interpret as a short-range touchsight field. Blind Psychic Trait Although blind from birth, you have always known that you were destined to be a great hero and have trained your mind and body relentlessly to overcome your handicap. Drawback: You are blind. Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Listen checks and have touchsight out to 5 feet (as the power) — opponents within 5 feet do not have concealment from you because of your blindness, and you do not have a –2 penalty to AC or lose your Dexterity bonus to AC for being blind against opponents within 5 feet. You can move at your normal speed. You can target a creature with a ranged psionic power if you can pinpoint the creature’s location by hearing (you must succeed on a Listen check against the creature’s Move Silently result + 20; see the Invisibility ability description for other modifiers), but you have a 50% miss chance. I think 5 feet is enough for the touchsight. Any more than that and there's not much point to you being blind. I think having touchsight should negate the blindness penalty on some skill checks too, but it's somewhat circumstance dependent. Many creatures have no Move Silently ranks and low Dexterity, so you should be able to pinpoint their locations once you can succeed on Listen checks with DCs in the upper 20s and low 30s (and sometimes you'll get lucky before that). A failure to pinpoint a creature's location doesn't cause your manifestation to fail, you simply can't attempt it. |
| JhyarelleNightwind05-13-07, 10:06 PM | There is a way to pull blind adventurer off with feats and powers. These are my sugestions. 1) Two feats that allows you manifest a power so that it would last 24 hours. Extend Power which doubles duration of a power. I forgot the other name of the feat but the prequisite is Extend Power and the affect is that a power manifested which has a duration will last for 24 hours. 2) Touchsight:This power gives the user similar ablilities like Dare Devil. A blind user does not gain visual awareness, but they do gain spatial awareness, AKA radar vision. The book says a telikinetic field maps the users current position up to a 60ft radious starting from the users position. How I precieve this is the user gets a blue print of his soroundings in his mind. That image has no color or texture, but still allows the user to move around with no penalty. There are a few advantages this power gives a blind user asuming he can defend himself, which I hope to god he can becaue he has to be at least Lv 5+ to use this combo. The power lets the user ingnore invisibiliy and concealment if his attackers have them. He also can pinpoint where all his attacker are at any given moment aslong as they are with in the boundaries of the power. Good thing you can augment the power by 10ft ever 2 PP. This also does not, I repeat does not defeat the purpouse of being blind. The user still canot see, he just knows where everything and every one is at any given monet within the power's area of effect. Now assuming the user lives (atain enough levels) long enough to pull this off I think this works well. |
| AdventChild05-13-07, 11:37 PM | I am sure you can talk to your DM to let you use incarnate to get the desired effects, there are certain powers that let you "see" and those have been mentioned above, personally i think those comments about being blind is useless are just stupid, people that want characters with certain handicap dont do it for usefulness, they do it cuz we think its cool, a good example on tv, for those who have seen the thundercats you might remember Lynx-O:Lynx-O is the eldest of the New Thundercats. Along with his age came wisdom, which is trusted by all the Thundercats. Although he is blind, Lynx-O has enhanced senses of touch and hearing. Lynx-O "sees" more clearly than any other Thundercat. I am currently playing a monk, psiwar. He isnt blind per say but he blindfolds himself whenever he is about to fight or go places, he believes that trusting your sight alone will only lead you to dismay and of course i enhanced him by making some powers permanent. |
| Magon05-14-07, 01:37 AM | that feat munin made would be something like i'm trying go get. and if it's a lvl 3+ game i can suplement with detect thoughts |
| ishpu05-14-07, 02:34 AM | what about blindsense, i'm sure there's a class or something u could take, or get it as a feat with monsterous lvls from savage species. |
| Verdande05-14-07, 03:14 AM | Ok, look. If you're blind, then take the penalties, recognize that you've crippled your character, and move on. Sure, you can use some extra abilities, but you don't deserve any sort of free benefit. Maybe you can get an extra feat out of it, if you treat it like a really severe flaw. Why don't you just have regular sight and just roleplay the fact that you're blind, and see through mystical powers/blindsense, whatever? The only problem is that you could see in the dark, which is unbalancing. The only solution I see is that you should have to pay the same cost any other character pays in the darkness- either be a race with darkvision (and so the fluff fits the crunch), use an ability to counteract it (a spell of darkvision, maybe), or just get used to the fact that you can't see in the dark, just like nobody else, can. I'd suggest the 2nd one, if you're really, really into the idea of a blind character. Especially the thing about the mystic eye, I actually kinda like that. It'd even explain what happens if you ever get cursed to be blind or whatever- it blinds your mystic eye instead of your regular one. |
| munin05-14-07, 08:21 AM | that feat munin made... Traits don't take up a feat slot. They're from Unearthed Arcana and they're Open Game Content (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm). Another possibility besides a short-range touchsight, would be the ability to retain your Dex bonus to AC and ignore the -2 penalty if you make a Listen check (DC equal to attack roll result + attacker's Move Silently ranks - attacker's armor check penalty) when attacked (ie. against each attack roll -- that would be a lot of Listen checks, but that's what your character is probably all about). That would be a very Zatoichi way to handle your blindness. That last line of the trait I wrote above... By the time you can hit those Listen DCs, there are going to be many other ways to overcome your blindness. To make it a real benefit, and help make your character playable at 1st level, I'd drop the DC modifier from +20 to +10 (due to your rigorous training) -- or maybe just say you have a +10 bonus on attempts to pinpoint a creature's location by hearing. You're still not going to be able to target everything, but you'll get some. |
| Ilikan Holyaxe05-14-07, 10:54 AM | How about asking your DM if he/she would allow you to have an Incarnated version of Sense Link: Sight with your pet monkey/whatever. I think that would be an interesting idea, have good RP flavor, and still has the potential to leave you disabled if ever your "seeing eye dog" wandered into a null psionics field, got kidnapped, killed, whatever. |
| forsaken111105-14-07, 10:58 AM | Okay, I think I have an answer for you. If you use the alternate class feature for a 5th level Psion (Telepath) you gain telepathy at a range of 5ft per class level. Combine that with the Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness page 126 and you gain a blindsense-like ability to mentally percieve any thinking being within range. This at least lets you pinpoint the square each being is in without constantly manifesting powers as well as observe some other information about them. Alternate Telepath features are here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a |
| Magon05-14-07, 12:34 PM | Okay, I think I have an answer for you. If you use the alternate class feature for a 5th level Psion (Telepath) you gain telepathy at a range of 5ft per class level. Combine that with the Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness page 126 and you gain a blindsense-like ability to mentally percieve any thinking being within range. This at least lets you pinpoint the square each being is in without constantly manifesting powers as well as observe some other information about them. Alternate Telepath features are here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a :devil: :devil: :love: :love: |
| Rageheart05-15-07, 12:52 AM | What is it with people who equate crippled characters with good roleplaying? I mean a google search on the WOTC boards alone returns 67 matches for "Blind Character" here. (http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&client=opera&rls=en&as_qdr=all&q=%22blind+character%22+site%3Aboards1.w izards.com&btnG=Search) ...Were that many people truely impressed by Rutger Hauer in Blind Fury (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096945/)? http://ia.ec.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/00/74/68m.jpg ( ... and so that no one can say I'm not being constructive in my criticisims, follow the link to google and I'm sure you will find MANY ways to make your blind hero.) |
| Tempest Stormwind05-15-07, 01:19 AM | Ok, look. If you're blind, then take the penalties, recognize that you've crippled your character, and move on. Sure, you can use some extra abilities, but you don't deserve any sort of free benefit. Maybe you can get an extra feat out of it, if you treat it like a really severe flaw. Why don't you just have regular sight and just roleplay the fact that you're blind, and see through mystical powers/blindsense, whatever? The only problem is that you could see in the dark, which is unbalancing. The only solution I see is that you should have to pay the same cost any other character pays in the darkness- either be a race with darkvision (and so the fluff fits the crunch), use an ability to counteract it (a spell of darkvision, maybe), or just get used to the fact that you can't see in the dark, just like nobody else, can. I'd suggest the 2nd one, if you're really, really into the idea of a blind character. Especially the thing about the mystic eye, I actually kinda like that. It'd even explain what happens if you ever get cursed to be blind or whatever- it blinds your mystic eye instead of your regular one.:clap: What is it with people who equate crippled characters with good roleplaying?I believe it stems from the same false belief that forced me to formalize the Stormwind Fallacy, actually. These people believe you can either roleplay or min/max. Therefore, logically, to improve your roleplay, you must avoid min/maxing. The polar opposite of min/maxing -- in other words, its ultimate avoidance -- is, naturally, max/minning. Therefore, the most crippled characters are naturally the best roleplayed, QED. The people who believe this are, naturally, not only poor logicians, but also sadly, sadly narrow-minded. Regretfully, they are also legion, which is why I had to write it up as a corollary to the SWF. See the link in my sig. |
| Magon05-15-07, 02:12 AM | :clap: I believe it stems from the same false belief that forced me to formalize the Stormwind Fallacy, actually. These people believe you can either roleplay or min/max. Therefore, logically, to improve your roleplay, you must avoid min/maxing. The polar opposite of min/maxing -- in other words, its ultimate avoidance -- is, naturally, max/minning. Therefore, the most crippled characters are naturally the best roleplayed, QED. The people who believe this are, naturally, not only poor logicians, but also sadly, sadly narrow-minded. Regretfully, they are also legion, which is why I had to write it up as a corollary to the SWF. See the link in my sig. if this was true (for me) i would not ask for ways to balance the blindness, would i? also you are right that the fact that he is blind wont make my RP better. but i will have more fun, wich might indirectly affect my RP. |
| Bernat05-15-07, 04:18 AM | What is with people that need to tell others how to enjoy their gaming? Don't make me formalize the Bernat's Fallacy: A character that is not min/maxed can still be roleplayed. |
| forsaken111105-15-07, 04:23 AM | Simply being blind or crippled (missing a limb, etc) won't necessarily enhance your roleplaying. Its more of "This is the character's storyline. This happened in his past and the result was blindness." He's playing a character with an obvious and crippling flaw because it fits the character's backstory. He's not necessarily better or worse than anyone else at roleplay, its just a choice. |
| AdventChild05-15-07, 04:53 AM | Magon doesnt want a blind character because he thinks it will enhance his role playing, he simply wants to make a blind character because he likes that concept and finds it cool. period. And he is aware of the pros and cons of being blinded and is asking for help on how to halve this drawbacks. There is no need to turn this thread into an other "what enhances role playing or not" thread. |
| Rageheart05-15-07, 10:12 AM | that's why I provided the link to the google results... I was trying to be helpful while unrepentently voicing my point of view. |
| MnemonicSV05-15-07, 02:02 PM | I have actually played a blind Psion, way back in 2E. He was actually quite effective, though all his powers were pretty much clairsentience/support abilities. He had a trained hawk he kept at his side that was permanently sight-linked. Or course, psionics have come a long way since 2E... and it's not as easy anymore in that regard. Playing a character with a natural disablity poses challenges, but not ones that cannot be overcome. As stated above, there are many powers/feats that can overcome blindness or substitute for sight. The problem is that in a world where blindness can be cured by powers and spells, is it fair to allow such a player to gain a bonus feat, power, or some other effect to compensate? Allowing a bonus feat seems all well and good, but would that feat disappear if the character reality revisions his sight back at a later time? Tough call. I once played a psionic character who's left hand had been turned permanently to stone (long story). The character spent one of his precious power slots to create the power "animate hand," allowing him to function normally without penalties. Imagine my disappointment when an NPC hit my character with a stone to flesh spell later. I now had a power with absolutely no use to me... after all, I couldn't very well turn it back to stone... physically or logically. So, just beware playing a blind character. It can be done, but it's a lot like playing a halfling grappler (another old character): Sure you've got style, originality, and all the good feats and stuff... but in the end, you're just nerfing yourself. |
| CrimsonDeath05-15-07, 04:17 PM | The problem is that in a world where blindness can be cured by powers and spells, is it fair to allow such a player to gain a bonus feat, power, or some other effect to compensate? Allowing a bonus feat seems all well and good, but would that feat disappear if the character reality revisions his sight back at a later time? Tough call. It wouldn't even take Reality Revision. Remove Blindness/Deafness will do it at level 5, if his eyes are still there (even if they're severely damaged). Or, if it's a curse, Remove Curse can fix that at the same level. Even if his eyes are completely gone, Regenerate can fix that at level 15. And none of those spells even has a material component, so there's pretty much no reason for the party cleric not to cast them as soon as he can. As for help... The Mindbender (Complete Arcane), in the "adaptation" section, mentions that the DM can allow a character with the Psionic Charm power or psi-like ability to enter the class. At first level, it grants Telepathy out to 100 feet, which is particularly good with the Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness. True, the Telepath variant gets you the Telepathy sooner, but you can't get Mindsight before level 6 either way, so Mindbender lets you "see" farther if your DM will let you use the psionic variant. Of course, you're starting at level 3, so that won't help for a while. Until then, you can use the psicrystal as a sort of scout, or you can use the Earth Sense feat from Races of Stone. Beware that Earth Sense requires a move action to use, though, and does not even pinpoint a creature, only tell you the direction toward it. Someone mentioned that, without sight, you or your psicrystal would need to touch a target in order to manifest a power with a "Target" entry in the description. I don't think that's accurate. The description of the psicrystal states that it and the master share connections to items and places, providing the example that a psion can Teleport to a place his psicrystal has seen as though the psion himself had seen it. I don't think a DM would be wrong to state that this effect extends to creatures, and that a psion can target a creature that his psicrystal can see as though the psion himself could see it. (The psicrystal would still have to describe the creature and its location, but that shouldn't be a problem with their telepathic link.) |
| Magon05-15-07, 04:50 PM | Magon doesnt want a blind character because he thinks it will enhance his role playing, he simply wants to make a blind character because he likes that concept and finds it cool. period. And he is aware of the pros and cons of being blinded and is asking for help on how to halve this drawbacks. There is no need to turn this thread into an other "what enhances role playing or not" thread. a-freaking-men |
| Magon05-15-07, 04:53 PM | I have actually played a blind Psion, way back in 2E. He was actually quite effective, though all his powers were pretty much clairsentience/support abilities. He had a trained hawk he kept at his side that was permanently sight-linked. Or course, psionics have come a long way since 2E... and it's not as easy anymore in that regard. Playing a character with a natural disablity poses challenges, but not ones that cannot be overcome. As stated above, there are many powers/feats that can overcome blindness or substitute for sight. The problem is that in a world where blindness can be cured by powers and spells, is it fair to allow such a player to gain a bonus feat, power, or some other effect to compensate? Allowing a bonus feat seems all well and good, but would that feat disappear if the character reality revisions his sight back at a later time? Tough call. I once played a psionic character who's left hand had been turned permanently to stone (long story). The character spent one of his precious power slots to create the power "animate hand," allowing him to function normally without penalties. Imagine my disappointment when an NPC hit my character with a stone to flesh spell later. I now had a power with absolutely no use to me... after all, I couldn't very well turn it back to stone... physically or logically. So, just beware playing a blind character. It can be done, but it's a lot like playing a halfling grappler (another old character): Sure you've got style, originality, and all the good feats and stuff... but in the end, you're just nerfing yourself. why would he cripple himself? thats more or less wgat he would say.... at least at the levels he could be healed |
| forsaken111105-15-07, 05:05 PM | why would he cripple himself? thats more or less wgat he would say.... at least at the levels he could be healed Are you asking why a person would refuse magical restoration of his sight? I can think of several reasons. 1. No money... he could be broke. 2. Healing magic isn't available. 3. The wound is kept as a reminder to be wiser about future encounters 4. The character can function almost as well as a sighted character anyway, and feels magical restoration would be a waste. (Especially true if you're a psion telepath with mindsight, you likely see better than most sighted people) 5. Maybe he just doesn't care. |
| ShaRd200005-15-07, 06:37 PM | Are you asking why a person would refuse magical restoration of his sight? I can think of several reasons. 1. No money... he could be broke. 2. Healing magic isn't available. 3. The wound is kept as a reminder to be wiser about future encounters 4. The character can function almost as well as a sighted character anyway, and feels magical restoration would be a waste. (Especially true if you're a psion telepath with mindsight, you likely see better than most sighted people) 5. Maybe he just doesn't care. 6. He was born that way? Therefore not having eyes at all, or what not. |
| Harbin_Dunewalker05-16-07, 12:07 AM | Regenerate would still fix that. It actually grows NEW eyes for you, instead of just restoring sight to your current ones. |
| Magon05-16-07, 01:35 AM | 6. He was born that way? Therefore not having eyes at all, or what not. dont you normaly keep your eyes when you are born blind? |
| sorvikcorsair05-16-07, 01:50 AM | All these negative people :( I played a blind an Aasimar Monk. She was blinded magically when she was young during a rape. I had a nice history made out and the campaign lasted until level 28. She had taken a vow of poverty and gave everything to her monestary to save other children before they were crippled like she was. I had a set of feats to take that eventually gave blindsense, but she didn't get that till epic levels. Basically she honed her senses to make up for her disability. If I can find those feats I'll PM you with them. |
| Magon05-16-07, 07:13 AM | Thx sorvikcorsair. hope you find them |
| ShaRd200005-16-07, 08:01 AM | dont you normaly keep your eyes when you are born blind? Again, born physiologically, without eyes, period. Anything goes. It's definitely a DM ruling on the regen though, if you never existed with eyes ever, why would you regen them? Or does it just go off your species type? IE: A human has eyes, therefore regen will grow them. That just seems too smart for a spell. |
| Magon05-18-07, 05:05 AM | i hereby bump this theard |
| Rageheart05-18-07, 10:25 AM | why? ...did you not get enough ideas? let me guess you never followed the link I put up. |
| CrimsonDeath05-18-07, 06:12 PM | You could play a Morlock. They're blind. |
| Jaime_Wolf05-19-07, 03:02 AM | As for a reason why, if you can, come up with some reason why you'd lose an ability if you were not blind. For instance, if you play a Seer you might be afraid that gaining your sight once again would elminate your character's abilities (it doesn't matter if it's true or not, the character is too afraid to find out). I had a blind telepath once that wore a veil of synesthete. He was albino (I've had a few albino characters, no stat differences, just roleplaying) and, as is common with albino organisms in reality, had vision problems that eventually deteriorated into blindness. Thus he used the veil to feel the light filtering onto his face for sight. It was a very fun character. I'd also like to second (or third, or fourth, or whatever) the idea that saying "blind characters suck, accept that you're going to suck" is idiotic. Honestly, if a player said "I want to play a fighter" in a high-level game and the rest of the group were wizards would you try to find a way to bring him up to par or would you say "Well, too bad, you shouldn't have made the character you wanted to make"? Anyone who would go with the latter should be shot with the hammer crossbow and shouldNEVER be allowed to play a roleplaying game again. Frankly, it has nothing to do with roleplaying vs. rollplaying. It seems that since Tempest_Stormwind got that article written all anyone can think about is how an argument can be made to come down to roleplaying vs. rollplaying. No one is saying that a weaker character makes for better roleplaying (though it does often create opportunities for good roleplaying). As mentioned D&D is a game of balance, it's designed so that if you have a flaw of some sort you have a benefit to make up for it. There aren't rules like "well, sorry, wizards get bad saves, bad BAB, no special abilities, and d2 hit-points because they're just not as good as the other classes, you shouldn't choose them". That would be idiotic. The same goes for blindness, you don't simply say "you can choose it but you won't be as good, you shouldn't choose it". And don't EVEN give me anything about how blind characters would fail at it in reality. D&D is not reality, D&D is a GAME, a game that attempts balance rather than realism. |
| Magon05-19-07, 03:54 PM | Frankly, it has nothing to do with roleplaying vs. rollplaying. It seems that since Tempest_Stormwind got that article written all anyone can think about is how an argument can be made to come down to roleplaying vs. rollplaying. wich is kinnda stupid as temest said that roll and role is more or less independent |
| Doomed_Penguin05-19-07, 09:23 PM | You could possibly replace their sight with the visual abilities of a psicrystal. Also this reminds me of a ability that I came up for a psionic monster that I scaped. It could be of use here. maybe Trading it for regular sight would be a fair tradeoff. Psionic Sight (Su): A creature with psionic sight has a supernatural 6th sense. It can detect anything in a 30 foot burst that can be seen in normal light, but cannot make out colors or texture and can detect invisible and incorporeal creatures or objects. This sense allows the creature to make a save against any illusion as if they have interacted with it along with a +2 circumstance bonus. This also negates a many conventional forms of concealment and even some magical ones, DM’s option. AKA Blindsight out to 30 ft. I played a forest gnome scout with the feats from comp. adv. and phbII. She was actually really fun to play, though my DM gave me blind fight and one of the other feats for free since I was blind. P.S. Get a magic item that lets you cast darkness a couple of times per day. You won't regret it :D |
| calronmoonflower05-20-07, 01:17 AM | AKA Blindsight out to 30 ft. Not quite. You could describe a creature that comes into your psionic sight even if you do not see it. Also being supernatural can cause you to be blinded in areas where psionics do not work. |
| Magon05-20-07, 05:07 AM | and if the blind psion was a cat? |
| Teron Gorefiend05-21-07, 06:07 PM | You could play a Morlock. They're blind. Grimlock. They've got a base ECL of 4 or so, though. I always thought it'd be fun to make grimlock wizard NPC's who use huge piles of engraved stone tablets as spellbooks. |
| nights_sorrow05-21-07, 11:43 PM | Or you could do this in an entirely flavor point of view. For instance, Sandking the half-giant psion is blind, but he has learned to extend his psionic powers to allow him to see the world differently. Instead of seeing colors and textures you see patterns of colors flowing or something. In the end you don't gain any bonus form it your character just recognizes different patterns and associates different things with names. In the end he can't tell you if something is blue or green but he gains no benefit only flavor and role playing application. Possibly keep a blindfold over your milky white eyes, then carry around a walking stick to make it look like you are actually unable to sense. Makes nice for the role playing. Actually I'm half tempted to do something like that with a Psychic Warrior. |