Blues...Do they warrent a +1 LA? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blues...Do they warrent a +1 LA? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Risingdragon145
11-15-07, 11:40 AM Ok I'm going to be making a new character and I wanted to play a blue goblin. What I don't get is the level adjustment. For a a +1 level adjustment they get a +2 int, -2 str, -2 cha, small size, +1 power point, darkvision, and +4 racial on move silently and ride.

I think that this race does not warrant a level adjustment. If I wanted to get more bang for my buck I would take the Tiefling or Asimar....

What do you all think?
Count Arioch the 28th
11-15-07, 11:43 AM It depends.

Are you okay with there being a non-elf that has a bonus to a spellcasting stat and no level adjustment?

If you say that since Grey Elves get more bonuses and are +0 LA, then this should be LA +0 too, then that's perfectly fine. (In fact, blues are LA +0 in my world.)
Lycanthromancer
11-15-07, 12:27 PM Blues are definitely not worth a +1 Level Adjustment. Also note that blues get Psionic Dodge as a bonus feat (pretty damned worthless), and a -2 Dex (as Small characters get +2 to Dex as a matter of course, which blues don't get).

Elan, ANY elves, dwarves, halflings, humans, and gnomes are all more powerful than blues, so the +1 LA is crap.
Risingdragon145
11-15-07, 12:32 PM Blues are definitely not worth a +1 Level Adjustment. Also note that blues get Psionic Dodge as a bonus feat (pretty damned worthless), and a -2 Dex (as Small characters get +2 to Dex as a matter of course, which blues don't get).

Elan, ANY elves, dwarves, halflings, humans, and gnomes are all more powerful than blues, so the +1 LA is crap.

Where are you getting your Blues information from? In the XPH the don't get a dex penalty or psionic dodge.
Lycanthromancer
11-15-07, 12:36 PM Check the Monster Manual for information on what Small characters get (ie, +2 to Dex). Blues don't get that, so there's another stat penalty for you.

As for Psionic Dodge, that's in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm). :) Check out the feats. The B denotes that it's a racial bonus feat.
Risingdragon145
11-15-07, 12:50 PM Check the Monster Manual for information on what Small characters get (ie, +2 to Dex). Blues don't get that, so there's another stat penalty for you.

As for Psionic Dodge, that's in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm). :) Check out the feats. The B denotes that it's a racial bonus feat.

Are you sure I always that that the B was for a bonus feat regardless of the source. Just because if you look at it the example is a 1st level character so it gets a feat for first level then a bonus feat for the first level of Psion.

Now what I need to do is convince my DM that the blue is not deserving of a +1 LA albeit I don't that he will listen to me... :confused:
SlanderPanic
11-15-07, 12:54 PM The +1 LA is a leftover from 3.0, when blues had a bunch of psi-like abilities, including multiple uses of charm person and ego whip. They were actually a little bit overpowered then.

3.5 blues are definitely worthy of a level adjustment, mind you, but it should be -1 rather than +1. The whole part where you're a goblin (and thus hated by everyone but goblins) and a blue (and thus hated by goblins, too) is a pretty major disadvantage.
Lycanthromancer
11-15-07, 01:00 PM Are you sure I always that that the B was for a bonus feat regardless of the source. Just because if you look at it the example is a 1st level character so it gets a feat for first level then a bonus feat for the first level of Psion.

My response:Feats
The line gives the creature’s feats. A monster gains feats just as a character does. Sometimes a creature has one or more bonus feats, marked with a superscript B (B). Creatures often do not have the prerequisites for a bonus feat. If this is so, the creature can still use the feat. If you wish to customize the creature with new feats, you can reassign its other feats, but not its bonus feats. A creature cannot have a feat that is not a bonus feat unless it has the feat’s prerequisites. If the blue in question got Psionic Dodge as a bonus feat for his class, he'd have to have the prereqs for it (which he doesn't). Problem solved. :)

Now what I need to do is convince my DM that the blue is not deserving of a +1 LA albeit I don't that he will listen to me... :confused:Have him take a look at most of the core races, dwarves and elves specifically. Now, have him take a look at grey elves, in the Monster Manual. Now, have him compare them to the blue. It should be easy enough to see that blues are NOT worth any LA. At all. Heck, have him compare to a standard goblin. REGULAR GOBLINS ARE STRONGER THAN A BLUE, AND HAVE AN LA OF 0.
Tedronai
11-15-07, 02:10 PM @Lycanthromancer

If the Blue in the SRD gets Psionic Dodge as a racial bonus feat, then it's missing either it's 1st level feat or it's Psion bonus feat. Any way you look at it, someone screwed up, but I'm going to go with the writer forgetting about Psionic Dodge's prerequisites, along with that entirely unjustified level adjustment.
TheKeyofE
11-15-07, 02:32 PM The Blue in the XPH has Psionic Body and Wild Talent for feats. That's one for first level and one bonus for being a Telepath. So no Psionic Dodge racial bonus feat.

Also, the XPH lists them as +0 LA in the stat entry, but +1 in the text description. Normal rule of thumb is that text trumps tables, but in this case it shouldn't.
CrimsonDeath
11-15-07, 03:28 PM AFB, but check out the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm) under "Blues as Characters". No mention of any racial bonus feats.
snakeman830
11-15-07, 03:37 PM Compared to regualr goblins, Blues are just as powerful (or should I sy weak?)

Compared to a normal goblin, they trade +2 Dex for +2 Intelligence and a single power point.

Now I don't know about you, but the power point definitly isn't enough for a level adjustment, and the stat changes actually end up hurting the goblin because of its other racial penalties.

What I find funny, though, is that goblins make better wizards than elves do. (More HP, higher AC, nice bonuses to stealth skills so they can survive, Darkvision, etc.)
Risingdragon145
11-15-07, 06:14 PM Well I talked to my DM and he surprising ok'ed the reduction in the Blues LA. Score on for the fat guy! But anyway thanks for your input everyone.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Risingdragon145 11-15-07, 11:40 AM	Ok I'm going to be making a new character and I wanted to play a blue goblin. What I don't get is the level adjustment. For a a +1 level adjustment they get a +2 int, -2 str, -2 cha, small size, +1 power point, darkvision, and +4 racial on move silently and ride. I think that this race does not warrant a level adjustment. If I wanted to get more bang for my buck I would take the Tiefling or Asimar.... What do you all think?
Count Arioch the 28th 11-15-07, 11:43 AM	It depends. Are you okay with there being a non-elf that has a bonus to a spellcasting stat and no level adjustment? If you say that since Grey Elves get more bonuses and are +0 LA, then this should be LA +0 too, then that's perfectly fine. (In fact, blues are LA +0 in my world.)
Lycanthromancer 11-15-07, 12:27 PM	Blues are definitely not worth a +1 Level Adjustment. Also note that blues get Psionic Dodge as a bonus feat (pretty damned worthless), and a -2 Dex (as Small characters get +2 to Dex as a matter of course, which blues don't get). Elan, ANY elves, dwarves, halflings, humans, and gnomes are all more powerful than blues, so the +1 LA is crap.
Risingdragon145 11-15-07, 12:32 PM	Blues are definitely not worth a +1 Level Adjustment. Also note that blues get Psionic Dodge as a bonus feat (pretty damned worthless), and a -2 Dex (as Small characters get +2 to Dex as a matter of course, which blues don't get). Elan, ANY elves, dwarves, halflings, humans, and gnomes are all more powerful than blues, so the +1 LA is crap. Where are you getting your Blues information from? In the XPH the don't get a dex penalty or psionic dodge.
Lycanthromancer 11-15-07, 12:36 PM	Check the Monster Manual for information on what Small characters get (ie, +2 to Dex). Blues don't get that, so there's another stat penalty for you. As for Psionic Dodge, that's in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm). :) Check out the feats. The B denotes that it's a racial bonus feat.
Risingdragon145 11-15-07, 12:50 PM	Check the Monster Manual for information on what Small characters get (ie, +2 to Dex). Blues don't get that, so there's another stat penalty for you. As for Psionic Dodge, that's in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm). :) Check out the feats. The B denotes that it's a racial bonus feat. Are you sure I always that that the B was for a bonus feat regardless of the source. Just because if you look at it the example is a 1st level character so it gets a feat for first level then a bonus feat for the first level of Psion. Now what I need to do is convince my DM that the blue is not deserving of a +1 LA albeit I don't that he will listen to me... :confused:
SlanderPanic 11-15-07, 12:54 PM	The +1 LA is a leftover from 3.0, when blues had a bunch of psi-like abilities, including multiple uses of charm person and ego whip. They were actually a little bit overpowered then. 3.5 blues are definitely worthy of a level adjustment, mind you, but it should be -1 rather than +1. The whole part where you're a goblin (and thus hated by everyone but goblins) and a blue (and thus hated by goblins, too) is a pretty major disadvantage.
Lycanthromancer 11-15-07, 01:00 PM	Are you sure I always that that the B was for a bonus feat regardless of the source. Just because if you look at it the example is a 1st level character so it gets a feat for first level then a bonus feat for the first level of Psion. My response:Feats The line gives the creature’s feats. A monster gains feats just as a character does. Sometimes a creature has one or more bonus feats, marked with a superscript B (B). Creatures often do not have the prerequisites for a bonus feat. If this is so, the creature can still use the feat. If you wish to customize the creature with new feats, you can reassign its other feats, but not its bonus feats. A creature cannot have a feat that is not a bonus feat unless it has the feat’s prerequisites. If the blue in question got Psionic Dodge as a bonus feat for his class, he'd have to have the prereqs for it (which he doesn't). Problem solved. :) Now what I need to do is convince my DM that the blue is not deserving of a +1 LA albeit I don't that he will listen to me... :confused:Have him take a look at most of the core races, dwarves and elves specifically. Now, have him take a look at grey elves, in the Monster Manual. Now, have him compare them to the blue. It should be easy enough to see that blues are NOT worth any LA. At all. Heck, have him compare to a standard goblin. REGULAR GOBLINS ARE STRONGER THAN A BLUE, AND HAVE AN LA OF 0.
Tedronai 11-15-07, 02:10 PM	@Lycanthromancer If the Blue in the SRD gets Psionic Dodge as a racial bonus feat, then it's missing either it's 1st level feat or it's Psion bonus feat. Any way you look at it, someone screwed up, but I'm going to go with the writer forgetting about Psionic Dodge's prerequisites, along with that entirely unjustified level adjustment.
TheKeyofE 11-15-07, 02:32 PM	The Blue in the XPH has Psionic Body and Wild Talent for feats. That's one for first level and one bonus for being a Telepath. So no Psionic Dodge racial bonus feat. Also, the XPH lists them as +0 LA in the stat entry, but +1 in the text description. Normal rule of thumb is that text trumps tables, but in this case it shouldn't.
CrimsonDeath 11-15-07, 03:28 PM	AFB, but check out the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm) under "Blues as Characters". No mention of any racial bonus feats.
snakeman830 11-15-07, 03:37 PM	Compared to regualr goblins, Blues are just as powerful (or should I sy weak?) Compared to a normal goblin, they trade +2 Dex for +2 Intelligence and a single power point. Now I don't know about you, but the power point definitly isn't enough for a level adjustment, and the stat changes actually end up hurting the goblin because of its other racial penalties. What I find funny, though, is that goblins make better wizards than elves do. (More HP, higher AC, nice bonuses to stealth skills so they can survive, Darkvision, etc.)
Risingdragon145 11-15-07, 06:14 PM	Well I talked to my DM and he surprising ok'ed the reduction in the Blues LA. Score on for the fat guy! But anyway thanks for your input everyone.