body fuel and mitigate suffering [Archive] - Wizards Community

body fuel and mitigate suffering [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Scion of Coldshard
06-05-07, 07:21 PM I havent seen anyone talking about this and a search came up empty so I thought I would post it here.

So what do people think? A little down time and fill up your pp pool with some team work sounds pretty good.

This is, of course, assuming that ability damage goes to temporary ability points first just like hp damage goes to temp hp first.
kyeudo
06-05-07, 07:37 PM You arn't dealing with ability damage, your dealing with ability burn, which may make a difference. I would double check to make sure that difference isn't important.

Otherwise, you would be correct I think. Temporary ability points would burn first.
Scion of Coldshard
06-05-07, 07:39 PM Ability Burn: This is a special form of ability damage that cannot be magically or psionically healed. It is caused by the use of certain psionic feats and powers. It returns only through natural healing.

So ability burn is ability damage, with some extra rules about what can heal it ;)

I forgot to mention, Mitigate Suffering is from Complete Champion on pg 61.
Lycanthromancer
06-05-07, 07:56 PM Why would anyone take body fuel? Massive ability damage that can't be magically healed for a boost to one score for 1 round/level? Why?!

If it were 1 hour/level, then I could see it.

Otherwise, the Mitigate Suffering feat would be the only way that would make sense (barring being an undead or a construct using metamorphosis to turn into a living creature, using the power to take ability damage, then reverting to your original form to negate the damage you took).

Seriously.
Scion of Coldshard
06-05-07, 08:00 PM Why would anyone take body fuel? Massive ability damage that can't be magically healed for a boost to one score for 1 round/level? Why?!

I believe you are thinking of:
Psychofeedback
Psychometabolism
Level: Egoist 5, psychic warrior 5
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Power Points: 9
You can readjust your body to boost one physical ability score at the expense of one or more other scores. Select one ability score you would like to boost, and increase it by the same amount that you decrease one or more other scores. All score decreases are treated as a special form of ability damage, called ability burn, which cannot be magically or psionically healed—it goes away only through natural healing.
You can boost your Strength, Dexterity or Constitution score by an amount equal to your manifester level (or any lesser amount), assuming you can afford to burn your other ability scores to such an extent.
When the duration of this power expires, your ability boost also ends, but your ability burn remains until it is healed naturally.

instead of:
BODY FUEL [PSIONIC]
You can expand your power point total at the expense of your health.
Benefit: You can recover 2 power points by taking 1 point of ability burn damage to each of your three ability scores: Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution.
You can recover additional power points for a proportional cost to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. These recovered points are added to your power point reserve as if you had gained them by resting overnight.
Special: Only living creatures can use this feat. You can take advantage of this feat only while in your own body.

Although, that would be another interesting use for the ability!
Lycanthromancer
06-05-07, 08:30 PM Different power, but the point still stands. Why would anyone want either of those, unless you just have an insane Str score (like if you were a storm giant, or something)?
Scion of Coldshard
06-05-07, 08:46 PM The feat is generally very, very bad.

However, with this combo it suddenly becomes incredibly good/overpowered.

It sucks that there is basically no middle ground between the two ;)

The power is situationally decent, but at least it can be built around in a single character build. Super high str, dex, or con for a period of time at the cost of some of your other stats. If you have the persistant power ability you can make this bonus last all day though, which makes for some really interesting options!
Tempest Stormwind
06-05-07, 08:47 PM Body Fuel works surprisingly well on NPC mooks -- throwaways who need just a tiny touch more power.

There's a chance that a pact with Naberius (Tome of Magic) can also mitigate it somewhat. Under that, you heal ability damage at one point every round (and ability drain at one point per minute) instead of their normal rates. I'm AFB and can't confirm if it is one point TOTAL or one point to every ability score (I suspect it's the latter). Since it speeds up natural healing, Body Fuel can be used with it to recharge power points no symptoms except minor exhaustion as you "catch your breath" or "regain your center".

Naberius comes with some pretty good other abilities as well, especially relating to the spoken word. To get these abilities, including Faster Ability Healing, you need an actual binder level, though. This means it's not the best option for full manifesters... but it can show up with partial manifesters or others who draw on power points without MLs. I found that out myself while working on a pyrokineticist, trying to find a way to use Firewalk at will, for instance (which, assuming Naberius works, is in fact accomplishable now).
kyeudo
06-05-07, 09:24 PM Naberius doesn't specify it can heal ability burn or that it speeds up natural healing. Ability burn specifies that it can't be healed magicaly or psionicly, so I think I'm on solid ground saying that it doesn't work.

The combo would be broken anyway, so why worry about it?
InkBlot
06-05-07, 09:54 PM Body Fuel is okay at very low levels, where a handful of power points can make a big difference. At higher levels, the problem is that you either don't have the physical stats to burn, or you do but you rely on them as much as on power points.

Interestingly enough, psychofeedback can be used in conjunction with Body Fuel as a nova enabler. Psychofeedback doesn't give you a bonus to your score, it actualy makes the score higher. This gives you more points to burn for Body Fuel. Of course, at the end of the duration you're going to be comatose and paralyzed (if not dead).
CrimsonDeath
06-05-07, 10:25 PM Naberius doesn't specify it can heal ability burn or that it speeds up natural healing. Ability burn specifies that it can't be healed magicaly or psionicly, so I think I'm on solid ground saying that it doesn't work.

The combo would be broken anyway, so why worry about it?
Since all Pact abilities are Supernatural in nature, I think you're right.

Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest, on the other hand, ought to work just fine, so long as you only regain 2 PP per turn.
Tempest Stormwind
06-05-07, 10:53 PM Since all Pact abilities are Supernatural in nature, I think you're right.Just having checked the rules again, it doesn't say it works as natural healing. Damn!Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest, on the other hand, ought to work just fine, so long as you only regain 2 PP per turn.No, you'll be paralyzed before that -- Body Fuel burns all three physical scores while Strongheart Vest only protects Constitution. And this assumes you're actually letting it protect against Body Fuel in the first place -- since you don't take the damage, it's arguable that you don't gain the power points!
Wizard Random
06-05-07, 11:38 PM Just having checked the rules again, it doesn't say it works as natural healing. Damn!No, you'll be paralyzed before that -- Body Fuel burns all three physical scores while Strongheart Vest only protects Constitution. And this assumes you're actually letting it protect against Body Fuel in the first place -- since you don't take the damage, it's arguable that you don't gain the power points!

Strongheart Vest stops damage to any of you're scores. I tried this last time and you guys shot me down over it.
kyeudo
06-05-07, 11:44 PM Strongheart Vest does protect against ability damage, and if chakra bound, against ability drain. However, it never says it protects against ability burn.

Also, TS is right in his logic. If you dont take the damage, you don't get the points.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Scion of Coldshard 06-05-07, 07:21 PM	I havent seen anyone talking about this and a search came up empty so I thought I would post it here. So what do people think? A little down time and fill up your pp pool with some team work sounds pretty good. This is, of course, assuming that ability damage goes to temporary ability points first just like hp damage goes to temp hp first.
kyeudo 06-05-07, 07:37 PM	You arn't dealing with ability damage, your dealing with ability burn, which may make a difference. I would double check to make sure that difference isn't important. Otherwise, you would be correct I think. Temporary ability points would burn first.
Scion of Coldshard 06-05-07, 07:39 PM	Ability Burn: This is a special form of ability damage that cannot be magically or psionically healed. It is caused by the use of certain psionic feats and powers. It returns only through natural healing. So ability burn is ability damage, with some extra rules about what can heal it ;) I forgot to mention, Mitigate Suffering is from Complete Champion on pg 61.
Lycanthromancer 06-05-07, 07:56 PM	Why would anyone take body fuel? Massive ability damage that can't be magically healed for a boost to one score for 1 round/level? Why?! If it were 1 hour/level, then I could see it. Otherwise, the Mitigate Suffering feat would be the only way that would make sense (barring being an undead or a construct using metamorphosis to turn into a living creature, using the power to take ability damage, then reverting to your original form to negate the damage you took). Seriously.
Scion of Coldshard 06-05-07, 08:00 PM	Why would anyone take body fuel? Massive ability damage that can't be magically healed for a boost to one score for 1 round/level? Why?! I believe you are thinking of: Psychofeedback Psychometabolism Level: Egoist 5, psychic warrior 5 Display: Visual Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 round/level (D) Power Points: 9 You can readjust your body to boost one physical ability score at the expense of one or more other scores. Select one ability score you would like to boost, and increase it by the same amount that you decrease one or more other scores. All score decreases are treated as a special form of ability damage, called ability burn, which cannot be magically or psionically healed—it goes away only through natural healing. You can boost your Strength, Dexterity or Constitution score by an amount equal to your manifester level (or any lesser amount), assuming you can afford to burn your other ability scores to such an extent. When the duration of this power expires, your ability boost also ends, but your ability burn remains until it is healed naturally. instead of: BODY FUEL [PSIONIC] You can expand your power point total at the expense of your health. Benefit: You can recover 2 power points by taking 1 point of ability burn damage to each of your three ability scores: Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. You can recover additional power points for a proportional cost to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. These recovered points are added to your power point reserve as if you had gained them by resting overnight. Special: Only living creatures can use this feat. You can take advantage of this feat only while in your own body. Although, that would be another interesting use for the ability!
Lycanthromancer 06-05-07, 08:30 PM	Different power, but the point still stands. Why would anyone want either of those, unless you just have an insane Str score (like if you were a storm giant, or something)?
Scion of Coldshard 06-05-07, 08:46 PM	The feat is generally very, very bad. However, with this combo it suddenly becomes incredibly good/overpowered. It sucks that there is basically no middle ground between the two ;) The power is situationally decent, but at least it can be built around in a single character build. Super high str, dex, or con for a period of time at the cost of some of your other stats. If you have the persistant power ability you can make this bonus last all day though, which makes for some really interesting options!
Tempest Stormwind 06-05-07, 08:47 PM	Body Fuel works surprisingly well on NPC mooks -- throwaways who need just a tiny touch more power. There's a chance that a pact with Naberius (Tome of Magic) can also mitigate it somewhat. Under that, you heal ability damage at one point every round (and ability drain at one point per minute) instead of their normal rates. I'm AFB and can't confirm if it is one point TOTAL or one point to every ability score (I suspect it's the latter). Since it speeds up natural healing, Body Fuel can be used with it to recharge power points no symptoms except minor exhaustion as you "catch your breath" or "regain your center". Naberius comes with some pretty good other abilities as well, especially relating to the spoken word. To get these abilities, including Faster Ability Healing, you need an actual binder level, though. This means it's not the best option for full manifesters... but it can show up with partial manifesters or others who draw on power points without MLs. I found that out myself while working on a pyrokineticist, trying to find a way to use Firewalk at will, for instance (which, assuming Naberius works, is in fact accomplishable now).
kyeudo 06-05-07, 09:24 PM	Naberius doesn't specify it can heal ability burn or that it speeds up natural healing. Ability burn specifies that it can't be healed magicaly or psionicly, so I think I'm on solid ground saying that it doesn't work. The combo would be broken anyway, so why worry about it?
InkBlot 06-05-07, 09:54 PM	Body Fuel is okay at very low levels, where a handful of power points can make a big difference. At higher levels, the problem is that you either don't have the physical stats to burn, or you do but you rely on them as much as on power points. Interestingly enough, psychofeedback can be used in conjunction with Body Fuel as a nova enabler. Psychofeedback doesn't give you a bonus to your score, it actualy makes the score higher. This gives you more points to burn for Body Fuel. Of course, at the end of the duration you're going to be comatose and paralyzed (if not dead).
CrimsonDeath 06-05-07, 10:25 PM	Naberius doesn't specify it can heal ability burn or that it speeds up natural healing. Ability burn specifies that it can't be healed magicaly or psionicly, so I think I'm on solid ground saying that it doesn't work. The combo would be broken anyway, so why worry about it? Since all Pact abilities are Supernatural in nature, I think you're right. Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest, on the other hand, ought to work just fine, so long as you only regain 2 PP per turn.
Tempest Stormwind 06-05-07, 10:53 PM	Since all Pact abilities are Supernatural in nature, I think you're right.Just having checked the rules again, it doesn't say it works as natural healing. Damn!Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest, on the other hand, ought to work just fine, so long as you only regain 2 PP per turn.No, you'll be paralyzed before that -- Body Fuel burns all three physical scores while Strongheart Vest only protects Constitution. And this assumes you're actually letting it protect against Body Fuel in the first place -- since you don't take the damage, it's arguable that you don't gain the power points!
Wizard Random 06-05-07, 11:38 PM	Just having checked the rules again, it doesn't say it works as natural healing. Damn!No, you'll be paralyzed before that -- Body Fuel burns all three physical scores while Strongheart Vest only protects Constitution. And this assumes you're actually letting it protect against Body Fuel in the first place -- since you don't take the damage, it's arguable that you don't gain the power points! Strongheart Vest stops damage to any of you're scores. I tried this last time and you guys shot me down over it.
kyeudo 06-05-07, 11:44 PM	Strongheart Vest does protect against ability damage, and if chakra bound, against ability drain. However, it never says it protects against ability burn. Also, TS is right in his logic. If you dont take the damage, you don't get the points.