Boosting Hit points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Boosting Hit points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lokiyn
10-31-07, 08:50 PM The thought just occured to me,

You can use metamorphosis to turn into an object.

The higher order ability of the metacube (planar handbook) allows you to increase the hit points of an item by your character level, even increasing the maximum hit points of the item.

Opinions?
Sagetim
10-31-07, 08:53 PM so...what's a metacube? and most likely the DM would rule that it would only last as long as you were an item, then the hp would go away once you were no longer that specific item. IE- the metacube's power 'perfects' items or brings them closer to perfection. Or makes them sturdier. However, it cannot affect any living thing, therefore it's effects dissipate when you stop being that specific object.
Lokiyn
10-31-07, 09:12 PM Higher-Order Ability: Once per day as a full round action, you can improve the sturdiness and durability of one building, piece of sculpture, piece of furniture, or other constructed object. To do this, you must spend the full round touching the object in question. At the end of that period, the object gains a number of hit points equal to your character level, which may make the object better than new, even more sturdy than when it was first constructed.

I guess the point is that metamorphosis doesn't change your hit points but it does change you into an object, thus valid for the effect.

::shrugs::
CrimsonDeath
11-01-07, 04:06 AM Actually, since you can perceive your surroundings and choose to take actions, I'm pretty sure you're still a creature. You just happen to be shaped like an object.
Sagetim
11-01-07, 04:33 AM Actually, since you can perceive your surroundings and choose to take actions, I'm pretty sure you're still a creature. You just happen to be shaped like an object.

not if you become a sandwich telepath! Then you're a constructed object (a sandwich is constructed).
CrimsonDeath
11-01-07, 12:10 PM not if you become a sandwich telepath! Then you're a constructed object (a sandwich is constructed).

Do you have a Wisdom score and a Charisma score?

If yes, you are a creature.

If no, you are an object.
PhaedrusXY
11-01-07, 12:44 PM Do you have a Wisdom score and a Charisma score?

If yes, you are a creature.

If no, you are an object.I'm not sure the two are as mutually exclusive as you're claiming. Intelligent items count as constructs, but they are definitely still objects, and have a hardness, etc.
Lokathor
11-01-07, 01:39 PM No, they have Wisdom and Charisma scores, which makes them not objects. That's why they're not subject to Disjunction.

Even a creature can have a hardness score.
Lycanthromancer
11-01-07, 01:43 PM Intelligent objects are still objects, despite having Int, Wis, and Cha scores. They don't get the construct type, and they aren't affected by things that affect constructs but not objects.
PhaedrusXY
11-01-07, 01:47 PM Just because they're a creature does not necessarily mean they are not also an object. I don't think the two are said to be mutually exclusive anywhere in the rules. If the rules say somewhere that something can't be both a creature and an object, please point out where.
Exposed_Wires
11-01-07, 01:56 PM Why would you need a rule for something that would seem to be common sense.
Lycanthromancer
11-01-07, 02:04 PM Well, you can use cure spells to heal constructs, even though, RAI, this shouldn't be the case.

In 3.0 you couldn't because they were necromancy spells, and constructs are immune to necromantic effects, but they changed them to conjuration, and didn't think to toss in the caveat about constructs being immune to them. They can't heal naturally, but that doesn't discount being healed through magic (except for most golems, of course).
crizh
11-01-07, 02:06 PM No, they have Wisdom and Charisma scores, which makes them not objects. That's why they're not subject to Disjunction.

Even a creature can have a hardness score.

Umm...

Does the Sage not say exactly the opposite somewhere in the FAQ?

Intelligent items are very similar to constructs but they are still Magical items and therefore Disjoinable.

(is that a word?)
PhaedrusXY
11-01-07, 02:52 PM Why would you need a rule for something that would seem to be common sense.:heehee You want to use "common sense" in a game/world where swords can talk, and mage's can make giant balls of fire by throwing bat****, you go ahead. I think I'll use the game rules. Common sense from the real world isn't that applicable in fantasy worlds. They don't have the same physical laws that we do. Besides, in my experience, common sense isn't actually all that common.
CrimsonDeath
11-01-07, 03:13 PM Actually, to be precise, an entity that lacks a Wisdom score and a Charisma score is an Object. That's from either the Monster Manual or the Player's Handbook, whichever one has the more extensive discussion of nonabilities. (It goes on to state that anything with a Wisdom score necessarily has a Charisma score, and vice versa.)

I haven't encountered any specific rules stating that an object cannot be a creature, nor any rules stating that a creature cannot be an object. However, I have provided an example of a circumstance under which an entity is necessarily an object and cannot be a creature.

Intelligent objects are still objects, despite having Int, Wis, and Cha scores. They don't get the construct type, and they aren't affected by things that affect constructs but not objects.

I beg to differ. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm) I don't actually have the books with me, but the SRD says that intelligent items can be considered creatures and should be treated as contructs. Also, nowhere does it refer to them as objects.

Well, you can use cure spells to heal constructs, even though, RAI, this shouldn't be the case.

So, Constructs are living creatures now? Because the Cure Wounds spells only heal living creatures.
imakuni67
11-01-07, 05:49 PM I don't actually have the books with me, but the SRD says that intelligent items can be considered creatures and should be treated as contructs.

And contstucts get bonus hit points based on size, right?
CrimsonDeath
11-01-07, 05:57 PM And contstucts get bonus hit points based on size, right?

If they're at least Small. So, two-handed weapons for Small creatures and one- or two-handed weapons for Medium creatures (for instance).
Lokathor
11-01-07, 07:44 PM CrimsonDeath, the section you're thinking of is in the MM, page 298:
Some creatures lack one of more ability scores. In most cases, a nonabiliy is an advantage for the creature. Note that all creatures must have both a Wisdom score and a Charisma score. Anything that lacks Wisdom or Charisma is an object, not a creature (though it may be alive, such as a tree or a sponge).

This implies, but does not prove, that objects and creatures are disjoint categorizations.

Good thing noticing the bonus HP just for being an intelligent object.
PhaedrusXY
11-01-07, 08:26 PM CrimsonDeath, the section you're thinking of is in the MM, page 298:

This implies, but does not prove, that objects and creatures are disjoint categorizations.

Good thing noticing the bonus HP just for being an intelligent object.Hmm... yeah, after reading that, I think I'm going to have to concede. I remember seeing that before now, but had forgotten it.
Slagger the Chuul
11-02-07, 08:42 AM Intelligent items ride the line between construct and item; they're actually both at the same time. It's not really possible for them to exist purely as constructs, since they have no Hit Dice, but they aren't merely items since they have an intellect.
Lycanthromancer
11-02-07, 01:16 PM So, Constructs are living creatures now? Because the Cure Wounds spells only heal living creatures.The target line says "Creature touched." The text at the beginning of the spell doesn't override that. Sorry. :P

It can affect nonliving creatures, too. Undead, anyone?
CrimsonDeath
11-02-07, 01:23 PM The target line says "Creature touched." The text at the beginning of the spell doesn't override that. Sorry. :P
That just means you can target a Construct. You can target a Construct with Charm Person. Doesn't mean it'll do anything.

It can affect nonliving creatures, too. Undead, anyone?
Never said it couldn't affect undead. Just said it couldn't heal them.
Lycanthromancer
11-02-07, 01:25 PM Except for baelnorn, and they aren't living. Oh, well. No sense arguing, since I agree that RAI, it shouldn't be the case.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lokiyn 10-31-07, 08:50 PM	The thought just occured to me, You can use metamorphosis to turn into an object. The higher order ability of the metacube (planar handbook) allows you to increase the hit points of an item by your character level, even increasing the maximum hit points of the item. Opinions?
Sagetim 10-31-07, 08:53 PM	so...what's a metacube? and most likely the DM would rule that it would only last as long as you were an item, then the hp would go away once you were no longer that specific item. IE- the metacube's power 'perfects' items or brings them closer to perfection. Or makes them sturdier. However, it cannot affect any living thing, therefore it's effects dissipate when you stop being that specific object.
Lokiyn 10-31-07, 09:12 PM	Higher-Order Ability: Once per day as a full round action, you can improve the sturdiness and durability of one building, piece of sculpture, piece of furniture, or other constructed object. To do this, you must spend the full round touching the object in question. At the end of that period, the object gains a number of hit points equal to your character level, which may make the object better than new, even more sturdy than when it was first constructed. I guess the point is that metamorphosis doesn't change your hit points but it does change you into an object, thus valid for the effect. ::shrugs::
CrimsonDeath 11-01-07, 04:06 AM	Actually, since you can perceive your surroundings and choose to take actions, I'm pretty sure you're still a creature. You just happen to be shaped like an object.
Sagetim 11-01-07, 04:33 AM	Actually, since you can perceive your surroundings and choose to take actions, I'm pretty sure you're still a creature. You just happen to be shaped like an object. not if you become a sandwich telepath! Then you're a constructed object (a sandwich is constructed).
CrimsonDeath 11-01-07, 12:10 PM	not if you become a sandwich telepath! Then you're a constructed object (a sandwich is constructed). Do you have a Wisdom score and a Charisma score? If yes, you are a creature. If no, you are an object.
PhaedrusXY 11-01-07, 12:44 PM	Do you have a Wisdom score and a Charisma score? If yes, you are a creature. If no, you are an object.I'm not sure the two are as mutually exclusive as you're claiming. Intelligent items count as constructs, but they are definitely still objects, and have a hardness, etc.
Lokathor 11-01-07, 01:39 PM	No, they have Wisdom and Charisma scores, which makes them not objects. That's why they're not subject to Disjunction. Even a creature can have a hardness score.
Lycanthromancer 11-01-07, 01:43 PM	Intelligent objects are still objects, despite having Int, Wis, and Cha scores. They don't get the construct type, and they aren't affected by things that affect constructs but not objects.
PhaedrusXY 11-01-07, 01:47 PM	Just because they're a creature does not necessarily mean they are not also an object. I don't think the two are said to be mutually exclusive anywhere in the rules. If the rules say somewhere that something can't be both a creature and an object, please point out where.
Exposed_Wires 11-01-07, 01:56 PM	Why would you need a rule for something that would seem to be common sense.
Lycanthromancer 11-01-07, 02:04 PM	Well, you can use cure spells to heal constructs, even though, RAI, this shouldn't be the case. In 3.0 you couldn't because they were necromancy spells, and constructs are immune to necromantic effects, but they changed them to conjuration, and didn't think to toss in the caveat about constructs being immune to them. They can't heal naturally, but that doesn't discount being healed through magic (except for most golems, of course).
crizh 11-01-07, 02:06 PM	No, they have Wisdom and Charisma scores, which makes them not objects. That's why they're not subject to Disjunction. Even a creature can have a hardness score. Umm... Does the Sage not say exactly the opposite somewhere in the FAQ? Intelligent items are very similar to constructs but they are still Magical items and therefore Disjoinable. (is that a word?)
PhaedrusXY 11-01-07, 02:52 PM	Why would you need a rule for something that would seem to be common sense.:heehee You want to use "common sense" in a game/world where swords can talk, and mage's can make giant balls of fire by throwing bat****, you go ahead. I think I'll use the game rules. Common sense from the real world isn't that applicable in fantasy worlds. They don't have the same physical laws that we do. Besides, in my experience, common sense isn't actually all that common.
CrimsonDeath 11-01-07, 03:13 PM	Actually, to be precise, an entity that lacks a Wisdom score and a Charisma score is an Object. That's from either the Monster Manual or the Player's Handbook, whichever one has the more extensive discussion of nonabilities. (It goes on to state that anything with a Wisdom score necessarily has a Charisma score, and vice versa.) I haven't encountered any specific rules stating that an object cannot be a creature, nor any rules stating that a creature cannot be an object. However, I have provided an example of a circumstance under which an entity is necessarily an object and cannot be a creature. Intelligent objects are still objects, despite having Int, Wis, and Cha scores. They don't get the construct type, and they aren't affected by things that affect constructs but not objects. I beg to differ. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm) I don't actually have the books with me, but the SRD says that intelligent items can be considered creatures and should be treated as contructs. Also, nowhere does it refer to them as objects. Well, you can use cure spells to heal constructs, even though, RAI, this shouldn't be the case. So, Constructs are living creatures now? Because the Cure Wounds spells only heal living creatures.
imakuni67 11-01-07, 05:49 PM	I don't actually have the books with me, but the SRD says that intelligent items can be considered creatures and should be treated as contructs. And contstucts get bonus hit points based on size, right?
CrimsonDeath 11-01-07, 05:57 PM	And contstucts get bonus hit points based on size, right? If they're at least Small. So, two-handed weapons for Small creatures and one- or two-handed weapons for Medium creatures (for instance).
Lokathor 11-01-07, 07:44 PM	CrimsonDeath, the section you're thinking of is in the MM, page 298: Some creatures lack one of more ability scores. In most cases, a nonabiliy is an advantage for the creature. Note that all creatures must have both a Wisdom score and a Charisma score. Anything that lacks Wisdom or Charisma is an object, not a creature (though it may be alive, such as a tree or a sponge). This implies, but does not prove, that objects and creatures are disjoint categorizations. Good thing noticing the bonus HP just for being an intelligent object.
PhaedrusXY 11-01-07, 08:26 PM	CrimsonDeath, the section you're thinking of is in the MM, page 298: This implies, but does not prove, that objects and creatures are disjoint categorizations. Good thing noticing the bonus HP just for being an intelligent object.Hmm... yeah, after reading that, I think I'm going to have to concede. I remember seeing that before now, but had forgotten it.
Slagger the Chuul 11-02-07, 08:42 AM	Intelligent items ride the line between construct and item; they're actually both at the same time. It's not really possible for them to exist purely as constructs, since they have no Hit Dice, but they aren't merely items since they have an intellect.
Lycanthromancer 11-02-07, 01:16 PM	So, Constructs are living creatures now? Because the Cure Wounds spells only heal living creatures.The target line says "Creature touched." The text at the beginning of the spell doesn't override that. Sorry. :P It can affect nonliving creatures, too. Undead, anyone?
CrimsonDeath 11-02-07, 01:23 PM	The target line says "Creature touched." The text at the beginning of the spell doesn't override that. Sorry. :P That just means you can target a Construct. You can target a Construct with Charm Person. Doesn't mean it'll do anything. It can affect nonliving creatures, too. Undead, anyone? Never said it couldn't affect undead. Just said it couldn't heal them.
Lycanthromancer 11-02-07, 01:25 PM	Except for baelnorn, and they aren't living. Oh, well. No sense arguing, since I agree that RAI, it shouldn't be the case.