Cerebremancer: The School & The Discipline [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cerebremancer: The School & The Discipline [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ecalsneerg
04-11-08, 11:52 AM The title is fairly self-explanatory. I want a Cerebremancer which is flexible enough to do most things; without overlapping his spells & powers too much. There are two other caveats:
1. Core-only. We can go out, but I'm begging for Practiced Caster & Manifester already, no need to push it.
2. Precocious Apprentice is allowed as a feat, yeah. Early entry; no way. I'll admit that I'd do it in a second, but it's iffy enough as a ruling that I'm not willing to push the point. not even sure if i'd allow it as a DM.

On the Wizard side; I've contemplated specialising in Conjuration. While the summon x spells are now worthless due to loss of spell levels, they're out, but it's still not a bad school. Or generalist is maybe even an option as I do have lots of spells and pp already.

Basically, the Wizard side is to be utility spells I won't use all the time, but are situational.

The psion half should be things I use all the time. I'm not sure what to go for really, but I think Kineticist or Egoist might be good ideas.

what do you guys think'd work well?
Apocalypse_Child
04-11-08, 01:23 PM Wizard-Side:
Go diviner. Clairsentience powers as a rule are less than stunning; unless you're using the precognition ones & Fate of One; and you can duplicate most of their effects through divination anyway. Plus it helps you prepare your wizard side for what you want to do in the encounter; Most importantly, you only give up one school (evocation).

Psion-Side:
Egoist. Shapechanging into a dream larva at level 20? Priceless. With your psion and wizard buffs, you can lay out a BBEG almost instantly for a mere 200 xp. It's like being a druid that can shapechange into ANYTHING. Make sure you get Metamorphic Transfer for early doom with metamorphosis.
awaken_D_M_golem
04-11-08, 02:50 PM I'll second that, but with a caveat.

Do you want 9th level powers, or 9th level spells ??
Psi- side gives flexibility.
Yes, Meta(poly-)morph with Metamorphic Transfer is good stuff but late; luckily Alter Self will work with M.T.
But Wizards can learn alot more powers um ... spells, especially at higher levels.

So Wiz(diviner) 3 / Psion(egoist) 3 / Cerebremancer 10 / Wizard 7 ... possibly Arch-Mage.
CrimsonDeath
04-11-08, 03:45 PM Whatever you do, don't ban Illusion or Necromancy. Psionics isn't so good with those.

Metamorphosis is nice, but Polymorph is just as good and Shapechange kicks the crap out of Greater Metamorphosis. Note that Metamorphic Transfer works with spells just as well as it does with powers. Which can be very nice with Alter Self and the right base race.
KyussWren
04-12-08, 04:27 AM Psions can get Shapechange as a power.
Ecalsneerg
04-12-08, 06:41 AM Wizard-Side:
Go diviner. Clairsentience powers as a rule are less than stunning; unless you're using the precognition ones & Fate of One; and you can duplicate most of their effects through divination anyway. Plus it helps you prepare your wizard side for what you want to do in the encounter; Most importantly, you only give up one school (evocation).
I never actually thought of that. Divination is a school you'd not use daily at low levels anyway, so at least specialising in it as a wizard gives you an extra spell slot you can leave empty just in case. As a psion, it'd just sap my powers known.

I'll second that, but with a caveat.

Do you want 9th level powers, or 9th level spells ??
Psi- side gives flexibility.
Yes, Meta(poly-)morph with Metamorphic Transfer is good stuff but late; luckily Alter Self will work with M.T.
But Wizards can learn alot more powers um ... spells, especially at higher levels.

So Wiz(diviner) 3 / Psion(egoist) 3 / Cerebremancer 10 / Wizard 7 ... possibly Arch-Mage.

Whatever you do, don't ban Illusion or Necromancy. Psionics isn't so good with those.
I was going to ban Enchantment and Evocation. Should I need to blow stuff up, the psion is a bit better in this regard. Enchantment is a DC-based school. Bad idea if I'll be a spell level or two behind, since I can't devote feats or PrCs to upping the DCs. But now, if Divination looks a good idea, maybe I should take enchantment anyway, if only because it may come in handy as compared to blowin' stuff up.
moebius00
04-12-08, 08:39 AM I find that the powers I use the most, even at high levels, come in the 2nd-4th range, so I'd probably go with Psionics as my "weaker" discipline.

One problem you're going to have is you're screwed for feats. You have to take both Practiced feats and don't get any of the bonus feats.

I'd probably go Wizard 5/Psion 3/Cereb 10/Wizard 6, so you can get that extra feat earlier.

Good Psion Powers: Look for powers that you'd use multiple times each day or are significantly better than their Arcane counterparts.

-Dispel Psionics: +20 Dispel with a 10 point power. This is probably the most advantageous power a Psion has over other kinds of magic.
-Ego Whip: Feeblemind + 1d4 Ego Whip = win.
-Schism: Get one power and one spell, or two powers, off each round. 3.0 Haste.
-Reddopsi: Spell Turning, with no maximum on spell levels turned, 10 min/lvl.
CrimsonDeath
04-12-08, 11:56 AM I was going to ban Enchantment and Evocation. Should I need to blow stuff up, the psion is a bit better in this regard. Enchantment is a DC-based school. Bad idea if I'll be a spell level or two behind, since I can't devote feats or PrCs to upping the DCs. But now, if Divination looks a good idea, maybe I should take enchantment anyway, if only because it may come in handy as compared to blowin' stuff up.

Enchantment isn't a bad school for a Cerebremancer to ban. A lot of the good powers have Psionic X equivalents (Charm, Dominate, Suggestion). Psions may be more versatile in blowing things up with Psychokinesis, but Wizards are actually more efficient at it with Evocation, thanks to free scaling of spell damage. That free scaling is particularly evident for a Cerebremancer, who has limited PP.
necrosnoop110
04-12-08, 04:25 PM What you need to check out is

Fred the Cerebremancer
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=624041

<scroll down http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=8968111&postcount=12 >

Cheers,
Neckiopolis
Ecalsneerg
04-12-08, 04:55 PM What you need to check out is

Fred the Cerebremancer
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=624041

<scroll down http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=8968111&postcount=12 >

Cheers,
Neckiopolis

I looked at that, but didn't find it very useful in any way. The build is focussed on buffing your stats with Metamorphosis, then blowing stuff up. Not to mention it also uses Flaws, the Precocious Apprentice trick, and has a level 1 80-year old. The other Cerebremancer build adopts the same approach in that it is melee focussed, and i haven't found a 'utility/battlefield control' build anywhere really.

I've plumped for Diviner 1/Egoist 2 (starts at level 3), the diviner pretty much filling up his spellbook and stocking up on buffs like Enlarge Person. I plan to use the diviner half as a swiss army knife, with the 'non-essential' spells like Teleport, Plane Shift and Identify I'll rarely need at short notice.

The Egoist half will contain the essentials like Grease, Dispel and Inertial Armour (scales better than Mage Armour), which I will use all the time, or need at short notice (dimension door, anyone?)
castlemike
04-20-08, 01:42 PM Two spells you should consider are Dweomer Transfer (Evoc) and Mental Pinnacle (Trans) at higher levels:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/mentalPinnacle.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/dweomerOfTransference.htm

The hidden talent feat for Astral Construct or Charm psionic.
AntiDjinn
04-20-08, 11:11 PM On the Wizard side: Don't specialize. It keeps your options open. Since psions are forced to specialize (sort of) don't impose this restriction on your arcane class. All you really get out of specialization is one extra spell per spell level per day. That is only up to 10 extra spells per day when you have access to 9th level spells, and you are delaying your access to higher level spells by multiclassing. Between your powers and spells you will have plenty of things to do all day, the few added spells is not worth the loss of two entire schools of magic.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ecalsneerg 04-11-08, 11:52 AM	The title is fairly self-explanatory. I want a Cerebremancer which is flexible enough to do most things; without overlapping his spells & powers too much. There are two other caveats: 1. Core-only. We can go out, but I'm begging for Practiced Caster & Manifester already, no need to push it. 2. Precocious Apprentice is allowed as a feat, yeah. Early entry; no way. I'll admit that I'd do it in a second, but it's iffy enough as a ruling that I'm not willing to push the point. not even sure if i'd allow it as a DM. On the Wizard side; I've contemplated specialising in Conjuration. While the summon x spells are now worthless due to loss of spell levels, they're out, but it's still not a bad school. Or generalist is maybe even an option as I do have lots of spells and pp already. Basically, the Wizard side is to be utility spells I won't use all the time, but are situational. The psion half should be things I use all the time. I'm not sure what to go for really, but I think Kineticist or Egoist might be good ideas. what do you guys think'd work well?
Apocalypse_Child 04-11-08, 01:23 PM	Wizard-Side: Go diviner. Clairsentience powers as a rule are less than stunning; unless you're using the precognition ones & Fate of One; and you can duplicate most of their effects through divination anyway. Plus it helps you prepare your wizard side for what you want to do in the encounter; Most importantly, you only give up one school (evocation). Psion-Side: Egoist. Shapechanging into a dream larva at level 20? Priceless. With your psion and wizard buffs, you can lay out a BBEG almost instantly for a mere 200 xp. It's like being a druid that can shapechange into ANYTHING. Make sure you get Metamorphic Transfer for early doom with metamorphosis.
awaken_D_M_golem 04-11-08, 02:50 PM	I'll second that, but with a caveat. Do you want 9th level powers, or 9th level spells ?? Psi- side gives flexibility. Yes, Meta(poly-)morph with Metamorphic Transfer is good stuff but late; luckily Alter Self will work with M.T. But Wizards can learn alot more powers um ... spells, especially at higher levels. So Wiz(diviner) 3 / Psion(egoist) 3 / Cerebremancer 10 / Wizard 7 ... possibly Arch-Mage.
CrimsonDeath 04-11-08, 03:45 PM	Whatever you do, don't ban Illusion or Necromancy. Psionics isn't so good with those. Metamorphosis is nice, but Polymorph is just as good and Shapechange kicks the crap out of Greater Metamorphosis. Note that Metamorphic Transfer works with spells just as well as it does with powers. Which can be very nice with Alter Self and the right base race.
KyussWren 04-12-08, 04:27 AM	Psions can get Shapechange as a power.
Ecalsneerg 04-12-08, 06:41 AM	Wizard-Side: Go diviner. Clairsentience powers as a rule are less than stunning; unless you're using the precognition ones & Fate of One; and you can duplicate most of their effects through divination anyway. Plus it helps you prepare your wizard side for what you want to do in the encounter; Most importantly, you only give up one school (evocation). I never actually thought of that. Divination is a school you'd not use daily at low levels anyway, so at least specialising in it as a wizard gives you an extra spell slot you can leave empty just in case. As a psion, it'd just sap my powers known. I'll second that, but with a caveat. Do you want 9th level powers, or 9th level spells ?? Psi- side gives flexibility. Yes, Meta(poly-)morph with Metamorphic Transfer is good stuff but late; luckily Alter Self will work with M.T. But Wizards can learn alot more powers um ... spells, especially at higher levels. So Wiz(diviner) 3 / Psion(egoist) 3 / Cerebremancer 10 / Wizard 7 ... possibly Arch-Mage. Whatever you do, don't ban Illusion or Necromancy. Psionics isn't so good with those. I was going to ban Enchantment and Evocation. Should I need to blow stuff up, the psion is a bit better in this regard. Enchantment is a DC-based school. Bad idea if I'll be a spell level or two behind, since I can't devote feats or PrCs to upping the DCs. But now, if Divination looks a good idea, maybe I should take enchantment anyway, if only because it may come in handy as compared to blowin' stuff up.
moebius00 04-12-08, 08:39 AM	I find that the powers I use the most, even at high levels, come in the 2nd-4th range, so I'd probably go with Psionics as my "weaker" discipline. One problem you're going to have is you're screwed for feats. You have to take both Practiced feats and don't get any of the bonus feats. I'd probably go Wizard 5/Psion 3/Cereb 10/Wizard 6, so you can get that extra feat earlier. Good Psion Powers: Look for powers that you'd use multiple times each day or are significantly better than their Arcane counterparts. -Dispel Psionics: +20 Dispel with a 10 point power. This is probably the most advantageous power a Psion has over other kinds of magic. -Ego Whip: Feeblemind + 1d4 Ego Whip = win. -Schism: Get one power and one spell, or two powers, off each round. 3.0 Haste. -Reddopsi: Spell Turning, with no maximum on spell levels turned, 10 min/lvl.
CrimsonDeath 04-12-08, 11:56 AM	I was going to ban Enchantment and Evocation. Should I need to blow stuff up, the psion is a bit better in this regard. Enchantment is a DC-based school. Bad idea if I'll be a spell level or two behind, since I can't devote feats or PrCs to upping the DCs. But now, if Divination looks a good idea, maybe I should take enchantment anyway, if only because it may come in handy as compared to blowin' stuff up. Enchantment isn't a bad school for a Cerebremancer to ban. A lot of the good powers have Psionic X equivalents (Charm, Dominate, Suggestion). Psions may be more versatile in blowing things up with Psychokinesis, but Wizards are actually more efficient at it with Evocation, thanks to free scaling of spell damage. That free scaling is particularly evident for a Cerebremancer, who has limited PP.
necrosnoop110 04-12-08, 04:25 PM	What you need to check out is Fred the Cerebremancer http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=624041 <scroll down http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=8968111&postcount=12 > Cheers, Neckiopolis
Ecalsneerg 04-12-08, 04:55 PM	What you need to check out is Fred the Cerebremancer http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=624041 <scroll down http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=8968111&postcount=12 > Cheers, Neckiopolis I looked at that, but didn't find it very useful in any way. The build is focussed on buffing your stats with Metamorphosis, then blowing stuff up. Not to mention it also uses Flaws, the Precocious Apprentice trick, and has a level 1 80-year old. The other Cerebremancer build adopts the same approach in that it is melee focussed, and i haven't found a 'utility/battlefield control' build anywhere really. I've plumped for Diviner 1/Egoist 2 (starts at level 3), the diviner pretty much filling up his spellbook and stocking up on buffs like Enlarge Person. I plan to use the diviner half as a swiss army knife, with the 'non-essential' spells like Teleport, Plane Shift and Identify I'll rarely need at short notice. The Egoist half will contain the essentials like Grease, Dispel and Inertial Armour (scales better than Mage Armour), which I will use all the time, or need at short notice (dimension door, anyone?)
castlemike 04-20-08, 01:42 PM	Two spells you should consider are Dweomer Transfer (Evoc) and Mental Pinnacle (Trans) at higher levels: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/mentalPinnacle.htm http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/dweomerOfTransference.htm The hidden talent feat for Astral Construct or Charm psionic.
AntiDjinn 04-20-08, 11:11 PM	On the Wizard side: Don't specialize. It keeps your options open. Since psions are forced to specialize (sort of) don't impose this restriction on your arcane class. All you really get out of specialization is one extra spell per spell level per day. That is only up to 10 extra spells per day when you have access to 9th level spells, and you are delaying your access to higher level spells by multiclassing. Between your powers and spells you will have plenty of things to do all day, the few added spells is not worth the loss of two entire schools of magic.