Challenge: Strongest level 1 Psion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Challenge: Strongest level 1 Psion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
hovnarr
05-13-07, 04:14 PM I couldn't decide if this should go on the CO boards or here, but I figured it would humor the psi community more.

What's the best build for a level 1 psion? My suggestion:

*Human Shaper 1
*Feats: Psionic Body, Psionic Talent, Psicrystal Affinity (Nimble or Single-minded)
*Powers: Matter Agitation, Vigor, Psionic Minor Creation
*Skills: Craft skills to reduce equipment costs so you can afford a good shield and armor + make poison etc. with PMC + the usual psion skills

You get:
*10 hp + CON bonus
*4 pp + INT bonus (more firepower than a sorceror!)
*Good AC from your self-made armor
*A very good defensive power
*PP economy in a versatile offensive power
*Many ways to solve non-combat problems (psicrystal, PMC etc.)

Now, you might think - yeah that's strong at level 1, but you'll be sorry later for taking Psionic Talent etc. Ah, but I give you Psychic Reformation! And you'll have plenty of bombs to take at higher levels to make sure you get there, such as Astral Construct, Ecto Cocoon, Share Pain/Vigor combo etc. Remember, primary casters have a hard time at low levels so that's where you need more power the most.
PhaedrusXY
05-13-07, 05:19 PM Make it a forest gnome, and have the psion hide while his buffed psicrystal does the fighting... from the back of a riding dog... while coated in contact poison made with PMC. At that level, the riding dog and psicrystal are alot nastier than the psion himself. :D The psion would be better off staying in a saddle bag on the back of the dog. :P
hovnarr
05-13-07, 06:44 PM Good thinking. A riding dog is too expensive at 150 gp though. Guard dogs are only 25 gp - do they use "dog" or "riding dog" stats? It seems silly that they would be weaker than riding dogs, so I'd assume riding dog stats, only they are not trained for riding. The psicrystal can't attack effectively, but it could guide the dog. Contact poison on the crystal might affect the dog, but the dog's claws could have some i.v. poison on them.

Rather than hiding, the psion could attack himself. His quite tough with 10 hp and Vigor for 15 hp total. Non-human = one feat less = 2 hp less...

Poisoned guard dog guided by the psicrystal for melee, human psion using matter agitation or light crossbow for support... that's quite nasty :)
PhaedrusXY
05-13-07, 06:49 PM I see no reason why the psicrystal couldn't deliver touch attacks. It has a -5 to attack from Str, but +3 from size. Hardness 8 at level 1 means most things can't even hurt it (unlike your squishy psion).

I think "guard dogs" probably use the "dog" stats, not riding dog.

You could also have the psion "shoot" the psicrystal (coated in contact poison) from a sling. If he misses, it gets up and tries to attack on its own. :D

I'd use Vigor on the Psicrystal instead of the psion, and have the psion hide, at least until combat is well underway between the enemy, and the dog + crystal. Then he might pop out with a crossbow if it looks relatively "safe".

I guess the contact poison on the crystal might affect the dog. If the dog had a saddle on, and the psicrystal jumped off, instead of climbing, it should be able to avoid touching the dog, but that might be a DM call.
Lokiyn
05-14-07, 12:52 PM As a shaper Remember these Formulas

Surface Area = 4(pi)r2
Volume = 4/3(pi)r3
Diameter = 2r

For example

You are a human, which places your height at around 6-7 feet

Suppose you are in trouble?

If you have the power Call item (minds eye) and the feat link power (Cpsi) you can then conjure up a shell of wood in 2 rounds

Feet Inches Cubic Inches Cubic Feet
Dia Dia Radius Volume
7.00 42.00 1.33 3.14 74,088.00 310,339.09 179.59 89.80
6.98 41.88 1.33 3.14 73,428.47 307,576.44 178.00 89.00

1.60 0.80

Number numbers numbers,

The important thing here is that the Hemisphere of wood 1/8th of an inch thick is .8 cubic feet thick which places it within the bounds of a level 1 character.

Darkwood DMG 283 5 10 50 % Wood Weight
Soarwood Eb 126 5 10 75% wood Weight
Wood PHB 266 5 10
Livewood Eb p127 6 10 150% Wood Weight
Bronzewood Eb 126 10 20 90% Iron Weight

Hemisphere of 5 1.25
Hemisphere of 5 1.25
Hemisphere of 5 1.25
Hemisphere of 6 1.25
Hemisphere of 10 2.5

There are 5 organic materials avalible to you which i listed above, then placed the stats for the sphere below.

So your best bet is to create a hemisphere with slits (and a small gap for the cystal to scuttle in and out. that allow you to look out on the battle field toss your psicrystal out before it pops up to channel touch attacks.

The main problem here is that a psicrystal cannot channel touch attacks till level 3. Meaning that to do this at level one eats up three feats. Linked power/improved psicrystal x2

Or alternatively with your psicrystals help and a craft check to make little doors with a small rail for the crystal to scurry on the crystal could open little doors (one square foot in area) to provide line of sight and effect then close them. more math would be needed to determine the weight of the door flaps to see if the crystal could move them but thats the basic idea.
RobbyPants
05-14-07, 02:11 PM While you're at it, take two flaws (that will have little impact on your character) to get two more psionic feats (for another 4 HP). If you're at a loss which ones to take, take Psionic Talent twice more. Each time you take it, the number of PP you get increases by +1 (3 the 2nd and 4 the 3rd). That's 11 (+ Int bonus) PP for level 1.

Also, you could take Overchannel, allowing you to boost your manifiester level by 1 for 1d8 damage. With all of your extra HP, you could afford to do it once easily, and maybe more if you rolled low on damage. Augmenting to 2nd level at this point is pretty powerful.
Wrong
05-14-07, 03:07 PM 18 strength.
greatsword proficiency.
Vigor, skate (to "run" after the frigthened foes), precog or prescience offensive.
Psionic weapon with your bonus feat to strike as a touch attack once during the encounter.

I wouldn't play this, but it's enough to kill a normal "powerful" 1st level psion, lol
:rofl:
Artector
05-14-07, 03:32 PM 18 strength.
greatsword proficiency.
Vigor, skate (to "run" after the frigthened foes), precog or prescience offensive.
Psionic weapon with your bonus feat to strike as a touch attack once during the encounter.

I wouldn't play this, but it's enough to kill a normal "powerful" 1st level psion, lol
:rofl:

Psionic Weapon gives you an extra 2d6 damage, not a touch attack. Deep Impact lets you use make the attack a touch attack, and isn't available till 5th level, at least.

I like the wooden sphere idea, though I'd be worried about it being caught on fire and the psion inside getting royally screwed.
hovnarr
05-14-07, 03:38 PM @PhaedrusXY: The psicrystal has a "-" attack entry, but I suppose it could make touch attacks. Even so, poison is only good for one attack. Sassone leaf residue is organic and appears most appropriate, dealing 2d12 hp, which should be sufficient to take out any one foe at level 1.

@Lokiyn: 2 rounds is a bit much prep time, but the defense is very good. Wouldn't it be possible to have a container of contact poison inside the sphere? That way your psicrystal could pop in and out once the poison got wiped off and refill. Unfortunately, there's a 5% chance every time of poisoning yourself, but the DM might waiver this if strong precautions are taken (um, though standing in a sphere of wood with an open container and a psicrystal darting in and out doesn't seem extremely secure to me).

@RobbyPants: Excellent suggestion! Flaws break Psionic body at level 1 even more.

@Wrong: Yeah, the greatsword warrior owns most casters at level 1. Though he'll fall to colorspray, sleep, disable and such effects on a failed Will. Or a poisoned psicrystal ;) And our psion will have time to manifest save-or-dies with 10-14 hp + con + vigor or standing in a wooden sphere etc.
PhaedrusXY
05-14-07, 03:44 PM @PhaedrusXY: The psicrystal has a "-" attack entry, but I suppose it could make touch attacks. Even so, poison is only good for one attack. Sassone leaf residue is organic and appears most appropriate, dealing 2d12 hp, which should be sufficient to take out any one foe at level 1.I was planning on using exactly this strategy for a Core Collesium character, until they said they wouldn't let me make poison with Psionic Minor Creation.
Lokiyn
05-14-07, 03:52 PM Minor Creation is Dismissable. Also as a Hemisphere the Sphere is 7 feet tall at the top, but 14 feet in diameter at the base (thus taking up roughly a 15x15 square)

I was planning on using exactly this strategy for a Core Collesium character, until they said they wouldn't let me make poison with Psionic Minor Creation.

Then it is no longer the Core collesium now is it?
PhaedrusXY
05-14-07, 03:57 PM Then it is no longer the Core collesium now is it?No, not really. They have tons of house rules. I never bothered posting a character. Too much stuff to read.
Lokiyn
05-14-07, 04:31 PM Ah well; thier game, thier rules.

Anyway a Dome looks something like this
http://lokiyn.pbwiki.com/f/Dome.bmp

ALthough as long as you keep the overall size 6 inches in diameter or less. you could instead of a solid dome, make a latticework with 6 inch or less radius holes to see out of.

Line of effect is limited to gaps of 1 foot square or more (see line of effect)

6^2 * Pi() = 113 square inches or .78 square feet.

Although i have no way of mapping/calculating it you could in theory make the latice work an inch thick using the volume saved with the holes. thus allowing you full line of sight and blocking line of effect except for hinged sections of latice than could be opened and closed with the crystal.

A rough guess is that you take the area of the gap
(144-113)= 31
(114/31)=4.65
.125*4.65= .5806

= Hemisphere of Bronzewood, Hardness 10, 10 Hp

As well as preventing nearly all melee combatants from reaching you.
hovnarr
05-14-07, 06:04 PM I was planning on using exactly this strategy for a Core Collesium character, until they said they wouldn't let me make poison with Psionic Minor Creation.

I think that's ridiculous. Poison is a small extra benefit for a psion to make up for a glaring weakness at low levels in stamina. As Wrong hinted at, you could have a greatsword wielder with 18 Str deal 2d6+6 each time at a huge attack bonus. What does it matter if a psicrystal can deal 2d12 damage ONCE with a -2 attack bonus AND a save at that?

Poison is just a cute trick used that way, nothing game breaking. It only becomes "broken" when you use it to take out whole armies by spicing up the soop a bit etc.

@Lokiyn: So how do we go about dealing damage once in the perforated wooden sphere? Is it practical to use a psicrystal as a poison delivery system considering the necessary moving back and forth + risk of self poisoning? Matter agitation is an option of course.
Lokiyn
05-14-07, 06:16 PM You aren't at risk of poisoning, The crystal would be since the crystal is using the poison Damage is either You don't but your crystal does You Summon Constructs through small hatches to the outer rim of the latticework and let the constructs deal damage. You have your psicrystal open and close hatches while you manifest through the hatches then close them to regain lack of line of effect

In theory as your levels get higher you and the entier casting portion of the party could retreat into siege mode during combat while the fighters prowl the rims, this loses effect once spreads come into play, so then you have to revert to solid spheres (easier at level 5)

For example,

(7 feet tall, 14 feet diameter as above)
A Solid Hemisphere 1/32 an inch thick Made of Bronzewood is .80 cubic feet
A Solid Hemisphere 6/32 an inch thick Made of Bronzewood is 4.79 Cubic Feet.

(10 Feet Tall, 20 Feet in Diameter)
A Solid Hemisphere 1/32 an inch thick made of bronzewood is 1.63 cubic feet
A Solid Hemisphere 2/32 an inch thick made of bronzewood is 3.27 cubic feet
A Solid Hemisphere 3/32 an inch thick made of bronzewood is 4.90 cubic feet
A Solid Hemisphere 4/32 an inch thick made of bronzewood is 6.53 cubic feet
A Solid Hemisphere 5/32 an inch thick made of bronzewood is 8.17 cubic feet
A Solid Hemisphere 6/32 an inch thick made of bronzewood is 9.80 cubic feet
hovnarr
05-15-07, 04:43 AM In theory as your levels get higher you and the entier casting portion of the party could retreat into siege mode during combat while the fighters prowl the rims, this loses effect once spreads come into play, so then you have to revert to solid spheres (easier at level 5)

I use a similar strategy with TK Sphere at higher levels + burrowing power to get through.

One thing though: Can you use Link Power at level 1? I don't have Complete Psychotics, but I thought it added +2 pp to casting, meaning ML 3 minimum.
Wrong
05-15-07, 10:46 AM Linked power just requires psionic focus and the PP cost of the linked power, so it's not an available option before 2nd level (unless you use overchannel).
CrimsonDeath
05-15-07, 04:39 PM Also note that the psicrystal, being Diminutive, enters the target's square and provokes an AOO every time it attacks.
Peregrine_Wolf
05-15-07, 05:04 PM lol....i was planning on playing a psion some time, but this seems a bit, much. I don't like powergaming, but this certainly works as far as i know.
hovnarr
05-15-07, 06:29 PM OK, I'd like to sum up what we have so far in terms of "building blocks" to create strong level 1 psions. Then, people can pick and choose from these blocks as they see fit.

We can make choices in the following areas:
>>Primary choices
*Attributes
*Race
*Discipline
>>Secondary choices
*Feats
*Powers
*Skill Points
*Equipment

The most important weakness for the level 1 Psion is lack of hp, which probably makes Psionic Body the most important building block. This means we want quantity and quality in psionic feats.

Psionic Feat Quantity
*Race: Human or Strongheart Halfling
*Weaknesses if you can take them: Murky-eyed and Feeble

Psionic Feat Quality
*Psionic Talent: If you take this once, you can essentially manifest 2 extra powers per day. Take it twice and gain an additional 3 level 1 powers per day.
*Psicrystal Affinity: The crystal is a scout, poison delivery device, movable light source (wrap it in oiled cloth and set it on fire) and more. Hardness 8 + construct traits reads "Immune to everything" at level 1. It also comes with a personality trait (essentially skill focus) and Alertness for 3 feats in one!
*Overchannel + Talented: Only worth it if you have 2 flaws and plenty of Psionic Talent points to spend. But if you do, you're essentially beginning play as level 2 rather than level 1 with all the HP, PP and the ML of 2.
*Link Power: If you can somehow fit this in too, you can summon a wooden shell sphere in 2 rounds for almost complete immunity as detailed by Lokiyn above.
*Enlarge Power: If you have feats to spend, you can increase the effectiveness with your ranged powers for no extra PP cost with this.
*Other feats: Inquisitor, Up the Walls and Speed of Thought all offer extra benefits for a first level character.

We need good powers for a first level character to make the most of the PP. Let's start with the powers that are NOT good for a 1st level character and why:
Entangling Ectoplasm, Energy Ray, Crystal Shard: Requires a touch attack. At level 1, your BAB is low and touch AC are only a few points below normal AC. At higher levels, the difference is huge and you have better BAB too. Then these powers get good.
Astral Construct, Grease: Also great powers at higher levels, but right now the duration is too small. You could make a case for them as level 2 choices though, if you want to use them before level 7 when you can use Psychic Reformation. Rather than AC, use animals (see below).

Now for powers that are good at level 1:
*Matter Agitation: This is essentially a weapon that costs 1 pp to draw and ignores your poor attack roll and strength score. It deals little damage compared to a greatsword, but it never misses. It's also a "weapon" that affects swarms and it can set things on fire from a distance.
*Disable: This is just like Sleep or Color Spray - a mass save-or-die that is [mind-affecting] and based on a will save. It even augments to stay useful until you reform, but that's beside the point for this discussion.
*Vigor: 5 extra hp should soak up most attacks at this level. Maybe even two attacks.
*Psionic Minor Creation: Make poison, flammables, utility items like ropes and ladders, wall segments, reinforce doors, build bridges, produce food etc.
*Call Item: For Lokyin's wooden sphere trick and more.
*Call to Mind: If your DM uses lots of Knowledge checks, getting to roll twice and taking an additional +4 bonus is pretty big.
*Various social powers: Psionic Charm, Mindlink, Attraction, Telempathic Projection etc. are all powerful and useful at this level.

You're most likely a high int human, which means you have plenty skill points to spend. Your priorities are:
*Concentration: Always. Remember you can expend focus to take 15 at a concentration check if necessary.
*Trained only INT-skills: Put your high INT-modifier to use and spend 1 rank to unlock any skill that is even remotely interesting such as Knowledge skills, Craft skills, Psicraft and Decipher Script. Craft is even more important if you have Psionic Minor Creation and intend to make complex items. Craft also enables you to manufacture your own equpment at 1/3 the price. Knowledge is more important if you have Call to Mind.
*Class skills: Max out any that seem useful given your choice of discipline (Diplomacy, Autohypnosis, Heal, Spot and Listen are good things to know at level 1).
*Other trained only skills: Who knows when a rank in Autohypnosis or Tumble could be useful?
*CC skills: Listen and Spot are always useful if you don't have them already.

Finally, there's equipment. You get 75 gp average or 120 gp max as a psion. To make the most of this gold, spend a few skill points on the necessary craft skills so you can effectively buy stuff at 1/3 the price. Buy the following expendable animals:
*One donkey: 8 gp. You can lug everything around (it even goes into dungeons) despite your low strength. It also has lots of hp and can deal 1d2 damage.
*One guard dog: 25 gp. A weak Astral Construct that lasts until destroyed.
Replace both of these with a war trained Riding Dog at level 2, to fill both functions, only better.

The rest is raw material for armor, weapons and a few utility items. Go for a self made chain shirt and heavy wooden shield. You can even make leather barding for your dog at a small extra cost, to make it last longer. If you have gp left to spend, use it on raw material for alchemical items and make some of those too.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hovnarr 05-13-07, 04:14 PM	I couldn't decide if this should go on the CO boards or here, but I figured it would humor the psi community more. What's the best build for a level 1 psion? My suggestion: Human Shaper 1 Feats: Psionic Body, Psionic Talent, Psicrystal Affinity (Nimble or Single-minded) Powers: Matter Agitation, Vigor, Psionic Minor Creation Skills: Craft skills to reduce equipment costs so you can afford a good shield and armor + make poison etc. with PMC + the usual psion skills You get: 10 hp + CON bonus 4 pp + INT bonus (more firepower than a sorceror!) Good AC from your self-made armor A very good defensive power PP economy in a versatile offensive power Many ways to solve non-combat problems (psicrystal, PMC etc.) Now, you might think - yeah that's strong at level 1, but you'll be sorry later for taking Psionic Talent etc. Ah, but I give you Psychic Reformation! And you'll have plenty of bombs to take at higher levels to make sure you get there, such as Astral Construct, Ecto Cocoon, Share Pain/Vigor combo etc. Remember, primary casters have a hard time at low levels so that's where you need more power the most.
PhaedrusXY 05-13-07, 05:19 PM	Make it a forest gnome, and have the psion hide while his buffed psicrystal does the fighting... from the back of a riding dog... while coated in contact poison made with PMC. At that level, the riding dog and psicrystal are alot nastier than the psion himself. :D The psion would be better off staying in a saddle bag on the back of the dog. :P
hovnarr 05-13-07, 06:44 PM	Good thinking. A riding dog is too expensive at 150 gp though. Guard dogs are only 25 gp - do they use "dog" or "riding dog" stats? It seems silly that they would be weaker than riding dogs, so I'd assume riding dog stats, only they are not trained for riding. The psicrystal can't attack effectively, but it could guide the dog. Contact poison on the crystal might affect the dog, but the dog's claws could have some i.v. poison on them. Rather than hiding, the psion could attack himself. His quite tough with 10 hp and Vigor for 15 hp total. Non-human = one feat less = 2 hp less... Poisoned guard dog guided by the psicrystal for melee, human psion using matter agitation or light crossbow for support... that's quite nasty :)
PhaedrusXY 05-13-07, 06:49 PM	I see no reason why the psicrystal couldn't deliver touch attacks. It has a -5 to attack from Str, but +3 from size. Hardness 8 at level 1 means most things can't even hurt it (unlike your squishy psion). I think "guard dogs" probably use the "dog" stats, not riding dog. You could also have the psion "shoot" the psicrystal (coated in contact poison) from a sling. If he misses, it gets up and tries to attack on its own. :D I'd use Vigor on the Psicrystal instead of the psion, and have the psion hide, at least until combat is well underway between the enemy, and the dog + crystal. Then he might pop out with a crossbow if it looks relatively "safe". I guess the contact poison on the crystal might affect the dog. If the dog had a saddle on, and the psicrystal jumped off, instead of climbing, it should be able to avoid touching the dog, but that might be a DM call.
Lokiyn 05-14-07, 12:52 PM	As a shaper Remember these Formulas Surface Area = 4(pi)r2 Volume = 4/3(pi)r3 Diameter = 2r For example You are a human, which places your height at around 6-7 feet Suppose you are in trouble? If you have the power Call item (minds eye) and the feat link power (Cpsi) you can then conjure up a shell of wood in 2 rounds Feet Inches Cubic Inches Cubic Feet Dia Dia Radius Volume 7.00 42.00 1.33 3.14 74,088.00 310,339.09 179.59 89.80 6.98 41.88 1.33 3.14 73,428.47 307,576.44 178.00 89.00 1.60 0.80 Number numbers numbers, The important thing here is that the Hemisphere of wood 1/8th of an inch thick is .8 cubic feet thick which places it within the bounds of a level 1 character. Darkwood DMG 283 5 10 50 % Wood Weight Soarwood Eb 126 5 10 75% wood Weight Wood PHB 266 5 10 Livewood Eb p127 6 10 150% Wood Weight Bronzewood Eb 126 10 20 90% Iron Weight Hemisphere of 5 1.25 Hemisphere of 5 1.25 Hemisphere of 5 1.25 Hemisphere of 6 1.25 Hemisphere of 10 2.5 There are 5 organic materials avalible to you which i listed above, then placed the stats for the sphere below. So your best bet is to create a hemisphere with slits (and a small gap for the cystal to scuttle in and out. that allow you to look out on the battle field toss your psicrystal out before it pops up to channel touch attacks. The main problem here is that a psicrystal cannot channel touch attacks till level 3. Meaning that to do this at level one eats up three feats. Linked power/improved psicrystal x2 Or alternatively with your psicrystals help and a craft check to make little doors with a small rail for the crystal to scurry on the crystal could open little doors (one square foot in area) to provide line of sight and effect then close them. more math would be needed to determine the weight of the door flaps to see if the crystal could move them but thats the basic idea.
RobbyPants 05-14-07, 02:11 PM	While you're at it, take two flaws (that will have little impact on your character) to get two more psionic feats (for another 4 HP). If you're at a loss which ones to take, take Psionic Talent twice more. Each time you take it, the number of PP you get increases by +1 (3 the 2nd and 4 the 3rd). That's 11 (+ Int bonus) PP for level 1. Also, you could take Overchannel, allowing you to boost your manifiester level by 1 for 1d8 damage. With all of your extra HP, you could afford to do it once easily, and maybe more if you rolled low on damage. Augmenting to 2nd level at this point is pretty powerful.
Wrong 05-14-07, 03:07 PM	18 strength. greatsword proficiency. Vigor, skate (to "run" after the frigthened foes), precog or prescience offensive. Psionic weapon with your bonus feat to strike as a touch attack once during the encounter. I wouldn't play this, but it's enough to kill a normal "powerful" 1st level psion, lol :rofl:
Artector 05-14-07, 03:32 PM	18 strength. greatsword proficiency. Vigor, skate (to "run" after the frigthened foes), precog or prescience offensive. Psionic weapon with your bonus feat to strike as a touch attack once during the encounter. I wouldn't play this, but it's enough to kill a normal "powerful" 1st level psion, lol :rofl: Psionic Weapon gives you an extra 2d6 damage, not a touch attack. Deep Impact lets you use make the attack a touch attack, and isn't available till 5th level, at least. I like the wooden sphere idea, though I'd be worried about it being caught on fire and the psion inside getting royally screwed.
hovnarr 05-14-07, 03:38 PM	@PhaedrusXY: The psicrystal has a "-" attack entry, but I suppose it could make touch attacks. Even so, poison is only good for one attack. Sassone leaf residue is organic and appears most appropriate, dealing 2d12 hp, which should be sufficient to take out any one foe at level 1. @Lokiyn: 2 rounds is a bit much prep time, but the defense is very good. Wouldn't it be possible to have a container of contact poison inside the sphere? That way your psicrystal could pop in and out once the poison got wiped off and refill. Unfortunately, there's a 5% chance every time of poisoning yourself, but the DM might waiver this if strong precautions are taken (um, though standing in a sphere of wood with an open container and a psicrystal darting in and out doesn't seem extremely secure to me). @RobbyPants: Excellent suggestion! Flaws break Psionic body at level 1 even more. @Wrong: Yeah, the greatsword warrior owns most casters at level 1. Though he'll fall to colorspray, sleep, disable and such effects on a failed Will. Or a poisoned psicrystal ;) And our psion will have time to manifest save-or-dies with 10-14 hp + con + vigor or standing in a wooden sphere etc.
PhaedrusXY 05-14-07, 03:44 PM	@PhaedrusXY: The psicrystal has a "-" attack entry, but I suppose it could make touch attacks. Even so, poison is only good for one attack. Sassone leaf residue is organic and appears most appropriate, dealing 2d12 hp, which should be sufficient to take out any one foe at level 1.I was planning on using exactly this strategy for a Core Collesium character, until they said they wouldn't let me make poison with Psionic Minor Creation.
Lokiyn 05-14-07, 03:52 PM	Minor Creation is Dismissable. Also as a Hemisphere the Sphere is 7 feet tall at the top, but 14 feet in diameter at the base (thus taking up roughly a 15x15 square) I was planning on using exactly this strategy for a Core Collesium character, until they said they wouldn't let me make poison with Psionic Minor Creation. Then it is no longer the Core collesium now is it?
PhaedrusXY 05-14-07, 03:57 PM	Then it is no longer the Core collesium now is it?No, not really. They have tons of house rules. I never bothered posting a character. Too much stuff to read.
Lokiyn 05-14-07, 04:31 PM	Ah well; thier game, thier rules. Anyway a Dome looks something like this http://lokiyn.pbwiki.com/f/Dome.bmp ALthough as long as you keep the overall size 6 inches in diameter or less. you could instead of a solid dome, make a latticework with 6 inch or less radius holes to see out of. Line of effect is limited to gaps of 1 foot square or more (see line of effect) 6^2 * Pi() = 113 square inches or .78 square feet. Although i have no way of mapping/calculating it you could in theory make the latice work an inch thick using the volume saved with the holes. thus allowing you full line of sight and blocking line of effect except for hinged sections of latice than could be opened and closed with the crystal. A rough guess is that you take the area of the gap (144-113)= 31 (114/31)=4.65 .125*4.65= .5806 = Hemisphere of Bronzewood, Hardness 10, 10 Hp As well as preventing nearly all melee combatants from reaching you.
hovnarr 05-14-07, 06:04 PM	I was planning on using exactly this strategy for a Core Collesium character, until they said they wouldn't let me make poison with Psionic Minor Creation. I think that's ridiculous. Poison is a small extra benefit for a psion to make up for a glaring weakness at low levels in stamina. As Wrong hinted at, you could have a greatsword wielder with 18 Str deal 2d6+6 each time at a huge attack bonus. What does it matter if a psicrystal can deal 2d12 damage ONCE with a -2 attack bonus AND a save at that? Poison is just a cute trick used that way, nothing game breaking. It only becomes "broken" when you use it to take out whole armies by spicing up the soop a bit etc. @Lokiyn: So how do we go about dealing damage once in the perforated wooden sphere? Is it practical to use a psicrystal as a poison delivery system considering the necessary moving back and forth + risk of self poisoning? Matter agitation is an option of course.
Lokiyn 05-14-07, 06:16 PM	You aren't at risk of poisoning, The crystal would be since the crystal is using the poison Damage is either You don't but your crystal does You Summon Constructs through small hatches to the outer rim of the latticework and let the constructs deal damage. You have your psicrystal open and close hatches while you manifest through the hatches then close them to regain lack of line of effect In theory as your levels get higher you and the entier casting portion of the party could retreat into siege mode during combat while the fighters prowl the rims, this loses effect once spreads come into play, so then you have to revert to solid spheres (easier at level 5) For example, (7 feet tall, 14 feet diameter as above) A Solid Hemisphere 1/32 an inch thick Made of Bronzewood is .80 cubic feet A Solid Hemisphere 6/32 an inch thick Made of Bronzewood is 4.79 Cubic Feet. (10 Feet Tall, 20 Feet in Diameter) A Solid Hemisphere 1/32 an inch thick made of bronzewood is 1.63 cubic feet A Solid Hemisphere 2/32 an inch thick made of bronzewood is 3.27 cubic feet A Solid Hemisphere 3/32 an inch thick made of bronzewood is 4.90 cubic feet A Solid Hemisphere 4/32 an inch thick made of bronzewood is 6.53 cubic feet A Solid Hemisphere 5/32 an inch thick made of bronzewood is 8.17 cubic feet A Solid Hemisphere 6/32 an inch thick made of bronzewood is 9.80 cubic feet
hovnarr 05-15-07, 04:43 AM	In theory as your levels get higher you and the entier casting portion of the party could retreat into siege mode during combat while the fighters prowl the rims, this loses effect once spreads come into play, so then you have to revert to solid spheres (easier at level 5) I use a similar strategy with TK Sphere at higher levels + burrowing power to get through. One thing though: Can you use Link Power at level 1? I don't have Complete Psychotics, but I thought it added +2 pp to casting, meaning ML 3 minimum.
Wrong 05-15-07, 10:46 AM	Linked power just requires psionic focus and the PP cost of the linked power, so it's not an available option before 2nd level (unless you use overchannel).
CrimsonDeath 05-15-07, 04:39 PM	Also note that the psicrystal, being Diminutive, enters the target's square and provokes an AOO every time it attacks.
Peregrine_Wolf 05-15-07, 05:04 PM	lol....i was planning on playing a psion some time, but this seems a bit, much. I don't like powergaming, but this certainly works as far as i know.
hovnarr 05-15-07, 06:29 PM	OK, I'd like to sum up what we have so far in terms of "building blocks" to create strong level 1 psions. Then, people can pick and choose from these blocks as they see fit. We can make choices in the following areas: >>Primary choices Attributes Race Discipline >>Secondary choices Feats Powers Skill Points Equipment The most important weakness for the level 1 Psion is lack of hp, which probably makes Psionic Body the most important building block. This means we want quantity and quality in psionic feats. Psionic Feat Quantity Race: Human or Strongheart Halfling Weaknesses if you can take them: Murky-eyed and Feeble Psionic Feat Quality Psionic Talent: If you take this once, you can essentially manifest 2 extra powers per day. Take it twice and gain an additional 3 level 1 powers per day. Psicrystal Affinity: The crystal is a scout, poison delivery device, movable light source (wrap it in oiled cloth and set it on fire) and more. Hardness 8 + construct traits reads "Immune to everything" at level 1. It also comes with a personality trait (essentially skill focus) and Alertness for 3 feats in one! Overchannel + Talented: Only worth it if you have 2 flaws and plenty of Psionic Talent points to spend. But if you do, you're essentially beginning play as level 2 rather than level 1 with all the HP, PP and the ML of 2. Link Power: If you can somehow fit this in too, you can summon a wooden shell sphere in 2 rounds for almost complete immunity as detailed by Lokiyn above. Enlarge Power: If you have feats to spend, you can increase the effectiveness with your ranged powers for no extra PP cost with this. Other feats: Inquisitor, Up the Walls and Speed of Thought all offer extra benefits for a first level character. We need good powers for a first level character to make the most of the PP. Let's start with the powers that are NOT good for a 1st level character and why: Entangling Ectoplasm, Energy Ray, Crystal Shard: Requires a touch attack. At level 1, your BAB is low and touch AC are only a few points below normal AC. At higher levels, the difference is huge and you have better BAB too. Then these powers get good. Astral Construct, Grease: Also great powers at higher levels, but right now the duration is too small. You could make a case for them as level 2 choices though, if you want to use them before level 7 when you can use Psychic Reformation. Rather than AC, use animals (see below). Now for powers that are good at level 1: Matter Agitation: This is essentially a weapon that costs 1 pp to draw and ignores your poor attack roll and strength score. It deals little damage compared to a greatsword, but it never misses. It's also a "weapon" that affects swarms and it can set things on fire from a distance. Disable: This is just like Sleep or Color Spray - a mass save-or-die that is [mind-affecting] and based on a will save. It even augments to stay useful until you reform, but that's beside the point for this discussion. Vigor: 5 extra hp should soak up most attacks at this level. Maybe even two attacks. Psionic Minor Creation: Make poison, flammables, utility items like ropes and ladders, wall segments, reinforce doors, build bridges, produce food etc. Call Item: For Lokyin's wooden sphere trick and more. Call to Mind: If your DM uses lots of Knowledge checks, getting to roll twice and taking an additional +4 bonus is pretty big. Various social powers: Psionic Charm, Mindlink, Attraction, Telempathic Projection etc. are all powerful and useful at this level. You're most likely a high int human, which means you have plenty skill points to spend. Your priorities are: Concentration: Always. Remember you can expend focus to take 15 at a concentration check if necessary. Trained only INT-skills: Put your high INT-modifier to use and spend 1 rank to unlock any skill that is even remotely interesting such as Knowledge skills, Craft skills, Psicraft and Decipher Script. Craft is even more important if you have Psionic Minor Creation and intend to make complex items. Craft also enables you to manufacture your own equpment at 1/3 the price. Knowledge is more important if you have Call to Mind. Class skills: Max out any that seem useful given your choice of discipline (Diplomacy, Autohypnosis, Heal, Spot and Listen are good things to know at level 1). Other trained only skills: Who knows when a rank in Autohypnosis or Tumble could be useful? CC skills: Listen and Spot are always useful if you don't have them already. Finally, there's equipment. You get 75 gp average or 120 gp max as a psion. To make the most of this gold, spend a few skill points on the necessary craft skills so you can effectively buy stuff at 1/3 the price. Buy the following expendable animals: One donkey: 8 gp. You can lug everything around (it even goes into dungeons) despite your low strength. It also has lots of hp and can deal 1d2 damage. *One guard dog: 25 gp. A weak Astral Construct that lasts until destroyed. Replace both of these with a war trained Riding Dog at level 2, to fill both functions, only better. The rest is raw material for armor, weapons and a few utility items. Go for a self made chain shirt and heavy wooden shield. You can even make leather barding for your dog at a small extra cost, to make it last longer. If you have gp left to spend, use it on raw material for alchemical items and make some of those too.