Changeling Egotist? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changeling Egotist? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rageheart
06-05-07, 02:24 PM I am away from my book stockpile ... are there any Substitution levels for a Changeling Egotist?

I think that would be an intresting combo, possibly aimed toward Anyform Savant.
Tempest Stormwind
06-05-07, 02:25 PM Interestingly, yes. It's a pretty strong sub-level, too. Check Races of Eberron for it.
Rageheart
06-05-07, 02:33 PM THanks Tempest.
InkBlot
06-05-07, 02:38 PM Ironicaly, in The Mind's Eye there's a variant Egoist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a) which can give Minor Change Shape to anybody in place of a the 1st level bonus feat. You might consider using it if you're only taking the Changeling race for the Minor Change Shape ability. This way you can get the juicy racial abilities of any other race, let's say Elan, and still be a Changeling of sorts.
Tempest Stormwind
06-05-07, 03:00 PM Ironicaly, in The Mind's Eye there's a variant Egoist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a) which can give Minor Change Shape to anybody in place of a the 1st level bonus feat. You might consider using it if you're only taking the Changeling race for the Minor Change Shape ability. This way you can get the juicy racial abilities of any other race, let's say Elan, and still be a Changeling of sorts.

Of course, the changeling egoist sub level provides a ML boost for psychometabolism powers, plus a few other goodies.

Hmm.... I forget the drawback on that. If it's what I think it is, Changeling Devoted Egoist / Anyform Savant would indeed be ebil, ebil, EBIL.
Rageheart
06-05-07, 03:20 PM Yes the concept I have is a person that does not know who is is, changing to fit his whims, or needs.... then learns to embrace his inner mutability.

(ebil?)
Lycanthromancer
06-05-07, 03:42 PM BBEB. Big Bad Ebil Build.
CrimsonDeath
06-05-07, 07:37 PM Of course, the changeling egoist sub level provides a ML boost for psychometabolism powers, plus a few other goodies.

Hmm.... I forget the drawback on that. If it's what I think it is, Changeling Devoted Egoist / Anyform Savant would indeed be ebil, ebil, EBIL.
"Devoted Egois"? I am intrigued. Where can this be found? And are there versions from the other five devotions?
Lycanthromancer
06-05-07, 07:39 PM Dreamscarred Press's Untapped Potential.

And yes.

The mechanics are somewhat similar to a specialist wizard. It's a specialist psion. Well, even MORE specialist.

[Edit] I didn't work on UTP, so if anybody says I'm promoting my product...

N'yar.
Rageheart
06-05-07, 08:01 PM So, would a Changeling Devoted Egoist manifest Psychometabolism at a +2 ML?

... a 1st level one could manifest a 2nd lvl power?!?!
Millenia
06-05-07, 08:21 PM So, would a Changeling Devoted Egoist manifest Psychometabolism at a +2 ML?

... a 1st level one could manifest a 2nd lvl power?!?!
Correct, for the first question. For the second question, no. You can only learn level 1 powers at level 1. However, you would manifest them with an ML of 3, leading to more augmentation, longer duration, yadda yadda yadda.
Tempest Stormwind
06-05-07, 08:34 PM Correct, for the first question. For the second question, no. You can only learn level 1 powers at level 1. However, you would manifest them with an ML of 3, leading to more augmentation, longer duration, yadda yadda yadda.

And, incidentally, faster burnout. You've got something like 3-5 power points at level 1 and can blow up to 3 on a given power (possibly even 4 if you have Overchannel -- which you probably should, since it's the only way a first-level devoted psion can manifest powers of any discipline other than his own).

This also comes with an ML hit to every other discipline and tight restrictions on how diverse your power selection can be. You also get slightly fewer bonus feats.

If you were already specializing (i.e. a constructor-type character), it's a great idea. If you weren't, it isn't. I've yet to see it cause balance problems.
NoldorForce
06-05-07, 10:34 PM BBEB. Big Bad Ebil Build.Of course, the changeling egoist sub level provides a ML boost for psychometabolism powers, plus a few other goodies.

Hmm.... I forget the drawback on that. If it's what I think it is, Changeling Devoted Egoist / Anyform Savant would indeed be ebil, ebil, EBIL.Could you name the character Zorbak?
Rageheart
06-05-07, 11:43 PM Hmmm... The Substitution level from Races of Ebberon grants Metamorphesis at 5th Lvl, but If I am using the Formbound rules from UTP:
"Retroactive Removals: The following powers
from the Expanded Psionics Handbook are not
intended for use with the Shapechanging and
Formbound rules: metamorphosis, greater
metamorphosis. If you previously knew either
of these powers and have adopted these rules,
speak with your GM about replacing them with
assume form and related powers."
Do you think there are any balance issues with replacing Metamorphesis with Assume Form?
Millenia
06-06-07, 12:24 AM I don't think there are any balance issues, especially since Assume Form is meant to be weaker than Metamorphosis.
RadicalTaoist
06-06-07, 09:25 PM I'd hope so; that's kind of why we aimed to replace Metamorphosis in the first place (speaking as a UTP author). If you're using the Formbinding rules for shapechanging in place of the RAW shapechanging rules, I'd recommend replacing the change shape ability of changelings and variant egoists to a take on UTP's Everyman power.
Lycanthromancer
06-07-07, 02:35 PM I'm sorry, but I don't like UTP's shapechanging powers. Far, FAR too restrictive for a class that's designed around flexibility.

Of course, metamorphosis is so powerful it's broken.
RadicalTaoist
06-07-07, 06:24 PM Well yeah, one of our chief concerns was 'let's make shapechanging powers that don't make 10 or more other powers/spells obsolete at once'. Put some cost to the benefits, so to say.

I think the best idea, although unfortunately one that would require a revamp of every monster in the game, would be to place the benefits of emulating a creature with shapechanging in that creature's monstrous description. Say, there are three tiers of shapechanging power (superficial imitation, deep transformation, and complete embodiement). After the stat blocks and combat strategy stuff, you have descriptions of the exact benefits you gain from becoming this creature with each of the three tiers of shapechanging abilities, and what you need to meet (must be or must not be this type, the effect in question must be minimum caster level X, subject must have minimum X HD or so and so size) to adopt this creature's appearance, form, or deeper structure. The exact benefits (skill check and ability score bonuses, what abilities you do and don't gain, size changes, type changes, etc.) are all spelled out. This case-by-case approach allows you to make exceptions for common sense or balance (no you'll never gain that overpowered ability, yes you can impersonate a Warforged or an Elan with Disguise Self). Easier reading than going through your menus, and more open ended than our power costs.

The catch? Needs to be built into the game from the ground up. I for one am not interested in shapechanging abilities enough to do this kind of work, and my current d20 system project doesn't have any shapechanging magic at all.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rageheart 06-05-07, 02:24 PM	I am away from my book stockpile ... are there any Substitution levels for a Changeling Egotist? I think that would be an intresting combo, possibly aimed toward Anyform Savant.
Tempest Stormwind 06-05-07, 02:25 PM	Interestingly, yes. It's a pretty strong sub-level, too. Check Races of Eberron for it.
Rageheart 06-05-07, 02:33 PM	THanks Tempest.
InkBlot 06-05-07, 02:38 PM	Ironicaly, in The Mind's Eye there's a variant Egoist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a) which can give Minor Change Shape to anybody in place of a the 1st level bonus feat. You might consider using it if you're only taking the Changeling race for the Minor Change Shape ability. This way you can get the juicy racial abilities of any other race, let's say Elan, and still be a Changeling of sorts.
Tempest Stormwind 06-05-07, 03:00 PM	Ironicaly, in The Mind's Eye there's a variant Egoist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a) which can give Minor Change Shape to anybody in place of a the 1st level bonus feat. You might consider using it if you're only taking the Changeling race for the Minor Change Shape ability. This way you can get the juicy racial abilities of any other race, let's say Elan, and still be a Changeling of sorts. Of course, the changeling egoist sub level provides a ML boost for psychometabolism powers, plus a few other goodies. Hmm.... I forget the drawback on that. If it's what I think it is, Changeling Devoted Egoist / Anyform Savant would indeed be ebil, ebil, EBIL.
Rageheart 06-05-07, 03:20 PM	Yes the concept I have is a person that does not know who is is, changing to fit his whims, or needs.... then learns to embrace his inner mutability. (ebil?)
Lycanthromancer 06-05-07, 03:42 PM	BBEB. Big Bad Ebil Build.
CrimsonDeath 06-05-07, 07:37 PM	Of course, the changeling egoist sub level provides a ML boost for psychometabolism powers, plus a few other goodies. Hmm.... I forget the drawback on that. If it's what I think it is, Changeling Devoted Egoist / Anyform Savant would indeed be ebil, ebil, EBIL. "Devoted Egois"? I am intrigued. Where can this be found? And are there versions from the other five devotions?
Lycanthromancer 06-05-07, 07:39 PM	Dreamscarred Press's Untapped Potential. And yes. The mechanics are somewhat similar to a specialist wizard. It's a specialist psion. Well, even MORE specialist. [Edit] I didn't work on UTP, so if anybody says I'm promoting my product... N'yar.
Rageheart 06-05-07, 08:01 PM	So, would a Changeling Devoted Egoist manifest Psychometabolism at a +2 ML? ... a 1st level one could manifest a 2nd lvl power?!?!
Millenia 06-05-07, 08:21 PM	So, would a Changeling Devoted Egoist manifest Psychometabolism at a +2 ML? ... a 1st level one could manifest a 2nd lvl power?!?! Correct, for the first question. For the second question, no. You can only learn level 1 powers at level 1. However, you would manifest them with an ML of 3, leading to more augmentation, longer duration, yadda yadda yadda.
Tempest Stormwind 06-05-07, 08:34 PM	Correct, for the first question. For the second question, no. You can only learn level 1 powers at level 1. However, you would manifest them with an ML of 3, leading to more augmentation, longer duration, yadda yadda yadda. And, incidentally, faster burnout. You've got something like 3-5 power points at level 1 and can blow up to 3 on a given power (possibly even 4 if you have Overchannel -- which you probably should, since it's the only way a first-level devoted psion can manifest powers of any discipline other than his own). This also comes with an ML hit to every other discipline and tight restrictions on how diverse your power selection can be. You also get slightly fewer bonus feats. If you were already specializing (i.e. a constructor-type character), it's a great idea. If you weren't, it isn't. I've yet to see it cause balance problems.
NoldorForce 06-05-07, 10:34 PM	BBEB. Big Bad Ebil Build.Of course, the changeling egoist sub level provides a ML boost for psychometabolism powers, plus a few other goodies. Hmm.... I forget the drawback on that. If it's what I think it is, Changeling Devoted Egoist / Anyform Savant would indeed be ebil, ebil, EBIL.Could you name the character Zorbak?
Rageheart 06-05-07, 11:43 PM	Hmmm... The Substitution level from Races of Ebberon grants Metamorphesis at 5th Lvl, but If I am using the Formbound rules from UTP: "Retroactive Removals: The following powers from the Expanded Psionics Handbook are not intended for use with the Shapechanging and Formbound rules: metamorphosis, greater metamorphosis. If you previously knew either of these powers and have adopted these rules, speak with your GM about replacing them with assume form and related powers." Do you think there are any balance issues with replacing Metamorphesis with Assume Form?
Millenia 06-06-07, 12:24 AM	I don't think there are any balance issues, especially since Assume Form is meant to be weaker than Metamorphosis.
RadicalTaoist 06-06-07, 09:25 PM	I'd hope so; that's kind of why we aimed to replace Metamorphosis in the first place (speaking as a UTP author). If you're using the Formbinding rules for shapechanging in place of the RAW shapechanging rules, I'd recommend replacing the change shape ability of changelings and variant egoists to a take on UTP's Everyman power.
Lycanthromancer 06-07-07, 02:35 PM	I'm sorry, but I don't like UTP's shapechanging powers. Far, FAR too restrictive for a class that's designed around flexibility. Of course, metamorphosis is so powerful it's broken.
RadicalTaoist 06-07-07, 06:24 PM	Well yeah, one of our chief concerns was 'let's make shapechanging powers that don't make 10 or more other powers/spells obsolete at once'. Put some cost to the benefits, so to say. I think the best idea, although unfortunately one that would require a revamp of every monster in the game, would be to place the benefits of emulating a creature with shapechanging in that creature's monstrous description. Say, there are three tiers of shapechanging power (superficial imitation, deep transformation, and complete embodiement). After the stat blocks and combat strategy stuff, you have descriptions of the exact benefits you gain from becoming this creature with each of the three tiers of shapechanging abilities, and what you need to meet (must be or must not be this type, the effect in question must be minimum caster level X, subject must have minimum X HD or so and so size) to adopt this creature's appearance, form, or deeper structure. The exact benefits (skill check and ability score bonuses, what abilities you do and don't gain, size changes, type changes, etc.) are all spelled out. This case-by-case approach allows you to make exceptions for common sense or balance (no you'll never gain that overpowered ability, yes you can impersonate a Warforged or an Elan with Disguise Self). Easier reading than going through your menus, and more open ended than our power costs. The catch? Needs to be built into the game from the ground up. I for one am not interested in shapechanging abilities enough to do this kind of work, and my current d20 system project doesn't have any shapechanging magic at all.