Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lycanthromancer 07-10-07, 11:13 PM	Given that a changeling's Minor Change Shape ability allows you to *actually* change your form, rather than simply giving you an illusory change, how does this stack with Metamorphic Transfer? Since you're humanoid with the Shapechanger subtype, wouldn't that mean that you could gain the Su abilities of any form you're in at any given time? I'd rule "No," but I'm wanting your opinions on this. Thanks.
Millenia 07-10-07, 11:17 PM	Well, I would let the changeling get the supernatural abilities... but they're still limited to the humanoid forms, so good luck finding one with a supernatural ability.
Lycanthromancer 07-10-07, 11:24 PM	Templates? A fiendish changeling would be horrifying.
SilentOne 07-10-07, 11:32 PM	I'd say no, you gain nothing, since it's only a cosmetic change that grants a +10 bonus on disguise checks, not an actual alter self ability. Changing to look like a troglodyte won't give you any natural armor, but it'll definitely make people not want to stand next to you when the town guard comes looking for who made trouble.
Sarlax 07-11-07, 12:05 AM	While the changeling ability is keyed off of Disguise Self, there's no type limitation to the ability. You make yourself—including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment—look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your body type. Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person. The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form. One point: "body type" is not a game term and it's certainly not "creature type." Given the rest of the text, it seems to indicate that you can't do things like appear to have extra limbs, subtract your head, etc. If you're shape is two-armed biped, you'll remain a two-armed biped. If you're a centaur, you're not going to be able to realistically appear as anything else, except maybe a wemic. That all said, the changeling ability actually causes a physical shift, which triggers the "Each time you change your form" clause in metamorphic transfer. Since there's no type restriction on Disguise Self, you could become any creature with a basically humanoid shape and get its supernatural abilities. Is this broken? Hell yes, but not because of changelings. It's because Metamorphic Transfer is broken all by itself.
ArcTan 07-11-07, 12:10 AM	Minor shapechange can't work like polymorph or metamorphosis in any way, since all it does is create a cosmetic change that's completely open-ended. (You can, for instance, invent a totally nonexistent race of green-skinned humanoids with three eyes and look like one.)
Genetic 07-11-07, 12:48 AM	Templates? A fiendish changeling would be horrifying. Shapechanging effects don't allow you to turn into templated creatures anymore unfortunately. It shattered my dreams when I found out my Elemental Plane of Water planar shepherd couldn't turn into basically anything in the game using the water element and half-water element templates... lol.
Lycanthromancer 07-11-07, 12:55 AM	Just because you can't turn into anything with a template doesn't mean that the template itself wouldn't grant you new forms. Granted, disguise self doesn't have such limits, but look at the first sentence in metamorphosis. You can turn into creatures of your type, such as...*Gasp!* Outsiders! :D