Chaotic Surge w/Metapsionic Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chaotic Surge w/Metapsionic Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pud
05-24-07, 11:21 PM Just to make sure,

1) A 10d6 Energy Missile with Empower Power does 10d6x1.5, right?

2) A 10d6 Energy Missile with Maximize Power does 60, right?

3) A 10d6 Energy Missile with Empower Power and Maximize Power does 60+10d6x.5, right?

Now add in Chaotic Surge effects.

4) A 10d6 Energy Missile w/Empower Power and Chaotic Surge (plus 50%) deals 10d6x2, 10d6x1.5 or is it treated as if Maximized for a flat 60?

5) A 10d6 Energy Missile w/Empower Power and Chaotic Surge (double) deals 60+10d6x.5?

6) A 10d6 Energy Missile w/Maximize Power and Chaotic Surge (plus 50%) deals 60+10d6x.5?

7) A 10d6 Energy Missile w/Maximize Power and Chaotic Surge (double) deals only 60 since they are duplicate effects?

8) A 10d6 Energy Missile w/Empower Power, Maximize Power and Chaotic Surge (plus 50%) deals how much?

9) A 10d6 Energy Missile w/Empower Power, Maximize Power and Chaotic Surge (double) deals how much?
Fleem
05-25-07, 10:00 AM From Empower Power in the SRD:
All variable, numeric effects of an empowered power are increased by one-half. An empowered power deals half again as much damage as normal, cures half again as many hit points, affects half again as many targets, and so forth, as appropriate. Augmented powers can also be empowered (multiply 1-1/2 times the damage total of the augmented power). Saving throws and opposed checks (such as the one you make when you manifest dispel psionics) are not affected, nor are powers without random variables.

So empower doesn't increase the number of dice; it multiplies the total by 1.5. Thus, 10d6 maximized and empowered is 60 * 1.5 = 90. I don't know about that chaotic surge thing, since I don't see it in the SRD.
Fafnir
05-25-07, 11:04 AM From Empower Power in the SRD:
All variable, numeric effects of an empowered power are increased by one-half. An empowered power deals half again as much damage as normal, cures half again as many hit points, affects half again as many targets, and so forth, as appropriate. Augmented powers can also be empowered (multiply 1-1/2 times the damage total of the augmented power). Saving throws and opposed checks (such as the one you make when you manifest dispel psionics) are not affected, nor are powers without random variables.

So empower doesn't increase the number of dice; it multiplies the total by 1.5. Thus, 10d6 maximized and empowered is 60 * 1.5 = 90. I don't know about that chaotic surge thing, since I don't see it in the SRD.

Wrong. The rules explicitly state that Empower and Mazimize are kept track of separately:
An empowered and maximized power gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus one-half the normally rolled result. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#maximizePower)

Thus 10d6, maximized, empowered: 60+5d6.
Despana
05-25-07, 05:09 PM Well, technically it would be 60+(10d6*.5).

Alot of people just prefer to roll 5d6, but it isn't technically correct. :P

Also, as far as I know, chaotic surge just gives you the benefit of the appropriate metapsionic feat to the power (without the drawback of course). Meaning that if you got the empower result on one that was already empowered the benefit of the chaotic surge would be lost (doesn't stack with itself).
pud
05-25-07, 06:06 PM Also, as far as I know, chaotic surge just gives you the benefit of the appropriate metapsionic feat to the power (without the drawback of course). Meaning that if you got the empower result on one that was already empowered the benefit of the chaotic surge would be lost (doesn't stack with itself).
If that's true I'll be really ******. Do they want damage powers to suck forever?

Would anyone care to take a shot at answering these? I didn't expect this to be that difficult. Doesn't anyone play Anarchic Initiates these days? I edited all instances of 5d6 to 10d6x.5.
pud
05-27-07, 11:21 AM Somebody help so I don't have to email customer service. Noooooo!
Fleem
05-27-07, 06:22 PM If that's true I'll be really ******. Do they want damage powers to suck forever?

Would anyone care to take a shot at answering these? I didn't expect this to be that difficult. Doesn't anyone play Anarchic Initiates these days? I edited all instances of 5d6 to 10d6x.5.

Um, 60 + 10d6*.5 isn't exactly bad. If you want more, there are other routes available, like twinned power and various nova cheese.
Lycanthromancer
05-28-07, 10:58 AM Um...I would think you would end up with 10d6 + (10d6*.5) + (10d6 + (10d6*.5))*.5...

If that's a bit too much math for you, I'd suggest 10d6 + 5d6 + (15d6/2).
pud
05-29-07, 09:37 PM Which question are you answering, Lycanthromancer?
AntiDjinn
05-30-07, 10:27 PM The benefit of your wild surge (or overchannel) is unchanged, so figure out how many dice you are going to get after adjusting ML. This is the variable numeric of the manifested power. Chaotic Surge modifies (or fails to modify) this variable. It does not modify non-variables nor does it modify variables that are not variable effects of the power.

If you maximize then you remove a variable and replace it with a single possible value. This has been beaten to a pulp in the Damp Power thread. To apply maximize power is to remove all uncertainty from the result and thus you would be defeating your own effort to introduce chaos into the power's effect.

If you empower the added damage is not variable (exactly 1.5 X base effect), nor is it an effect of the power (it does not write itself into the power's descriptive text). So the added damage does not meet the requirements as written for chaotic surge.
Lycanthromancer
05-31-07, 02:01 PM Which question are you answering, Lycanthromancer?
Sorry, that was what happens when you get a +50% surge on an empowered power.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pud 05-24-07, 11:21 PM	Just to make sure, 1) A 10d6 Energy Missile with Empower Power does 10d6x1.5, right? 2) A 10d6 Energy Missile with Maximize Power does 60, right? 3) A 10d6 Energy Missile with Empower Power and Maximize Power does 60+10d6x.5, right? Now add in Chaotic Surge effects. 4) A 10d6 Energy Missile w/Empower Power and Chaotic Surge (plus 50%) deals 10d6x2, 10d6x1.5 or is it treated as if Maximized for a flat 60? 5) A 10d6 Energy Missile w/Empower Power and Chaotic Surge (double) deals 60+10d6x.5? 6) A 10d6 Energy Missile w/Maximize Power and Chaotic Surge (plus 50%) deals 60+10d6x.5? 7) A 10d6 Energy Missile w/Maximize Power and Chaotic Surge (double) deals only 60 since they are duplicate effects? 8) A 10d6 Energy Missile w/Empower Power, Maximize Power and Chaotic Surge (plus 50%) deals how much? 9) A 10d6 Energy Missile w/Empower Power, Maximize Power and Chaotic Surge (double) deals how much?
Fleem 05-25-07, 10:00 AM	From Empower Power in the SRD: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered power are increased by one-half. An empowered power deals half again as much damage as normal, cures half again as many hit points, affects half again as many targets, and so forth, as appropriate. Augmented powers can also be empowered (multiply 1-1/2 times the damage total of the augmented power). Saving throws and opposed checks (such as the one you make when you manifest dispel psionics) are not affected, nor are powers without random variables. So empower doesn't increase the number of dice; it multiplies the total by 1.5. Thus, 10d6 maximized and empowered is 60 * 1.5 = 90. I don't know about that chaotic surge thing, since I don't see it in the SRD.
Fafnir 05-25-07, 11:04 AM	From Empower Power in the SRD: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered power are increased by one-half. An empowered power deals half again as much damage as normal, cures half again as many hit points, affects half again as many targets, and so forth, as appropriate. Augmented powers can also be empowered (multiply 1-1/2 times the damage total of the augmented power). Saving throws and opposed checks (such as the one you make when you manifest dispel psionics) are not affected, nor are powers without random variables. So empower doesn't increase the number of dice; it multiplies the total by 1.5. Thus, 10d6 maximized and empowered is 60 * 1.5 = 90. I don't know about that chaotic surge thing, since I don't see it in the SRD. Wrong. The rules explicitly state that Empower and Mazimize are kept track of separately: An empowered and maximized power gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus one-half the normally rolled result. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#maximizePower) Thus 10d6, maximized, empowered: 60+5d6.
Despana 05-25-07, 05:09 PM	Well, technically it would be 60+(10d6*.5). Alot of people just prefer to roll 5d6, but it isn't technically correct. :P Also, as far as I know, chaotic surge just gives you the benefit of the appropriate metapsionic feat to the power (without the drawback of course). Meaning that if you got the empower result on one that was already empowered the benefit of the chaotic surge would be lost (doesn't stack with itself).
pud 05-25-07, 06:06 PM	Also, as far as I know, chaotic surge just gives you the benefit of the appropriate metapsionic feat to the power (without the drawback of course). Meaning that if you got the empower result on one that was already empowered the benefit of the chaotic surge would be lost (doesn't stack with itself). If that's true I'll be really ******. Do they want damage powers to suck forever? Would anyone care to take a shot at answering these? I didn't expect this to be that difficult. Doesn't anyone play Anarchic Initiates these days? I edited all instances of 5d6 to 10d6x.5.
pud 05-27-07, 11:21 AM	Somebody help so I don't have to email customer service. Noooooo!
Fleem 05-27-07, 06:22 PM	If that's true I'll be really *****. Do they want damage powers to suck forever? Would anyone care to take a shot at answering these? I didn't expect this to be that difficult. Doesn't anyone play Anarchic Initiates these days? I edited all instances of 5d6 to 10d6x.5. Um, 60 + 10d6.5 isn't exactly bad. If you want more, there are other routes available, like twinned power and various nova cheese.
Lycanthromancer 05-28-07, 10:58 AM	Um...I would think you would end up with 10d6 + (10d6.5) + (10d6 + (10d6.5))*.5... If that's a bit too much math for you, I'd suggest 10d6 + 5d6 + (15d6/2).
pud 05-29-07, 09:37 PM	Which question are you answering, Lycanthromancer?
AntiDjinn 05-30-07, 10:27 PM	The benefit of your wild surge (or overchannel) is unchanged, so figure out how many dice you are going to get after adjusting ML. This is the variable numeric of the manifested power. Chaotic Surge modifies (or fails to modify) this variable. It does not modify non-variables nor does it modify variables that are not variable effects of the power. If you maximize then you remove a variable and replace it with a single possible value. This has been beaten to a pulp in the Damp Power thread. To apply maximize power is to remove all uncertainty from the result and thus you would be defeating your own effort to introduce chaos into the power's effect. If you empower the added damage is not variable (exactly 1.5 X base effect), nor is it an effect of the power (it does not write itself into the power's descriptive text). So the added damage does not meet the requirements as written for chaotic surge.
Lycanthromancer 05-31-07, 02:01 PM	Which question are you answering, Lycanthromancer? Sorry, that was what happens when you get a +50% surge on an empowered power.