Character Help: xeph psychic warrior/elocator [Archive] - Wizards Community

Character Help: xeph psychic warrior/elocator [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gray Scholar
11-08-07, 05:47 PM I'm not sure this is the proper forum for this question, but it does involve a psionic character, so hopefully I will be forgiven.

I want some help in creating an effective high-level character. It does not have to be an optimal character by any means, but I'm afraid that if I go with what seems fun, I'll end up with a character that can't really do much. (See below for a possible example.)

I intend to run a 13th-level xeph psychic warrior/elocator. The idea is to have a 'hit and run' character: move in, attack, and move out of harm's way before they can hit back. What sort of stats (attack bonus, damage, saves, AC, etc.) would I want for such a character, so that he can hold his own in a fight?

I don't have a lot of experience with 3rd edition D&D, and I have no experience with high-level 3rd edition D&D. Hence, my call for help.

My first idea was to use claws of the beast and inertial armor (and extend power) every day, instead of using a weapon and armor. Then, I discovered that I could replace 3-4 powers, 2 feats, and a daily use of 40% of my power points by purchasing two items totaling about 25K in gold, and still have about the same level of effectiveness. That seemed like I was being too 'inefficient' for my own good; I didn't think I could do as well as I should in a fight by handicapping myself like that.

Any hints?
Nibbler
11-09-07, 11:37 PM If you're wanting to do lots of damage with Spring Attack, you might want to look at the Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz feats from PHB2. The BAB prerequisites are high but they allow you to make a 2nd and 3rd attack when spring attacking. You'll want to maximize your speed to get you out of harms way (a level of barbarian, boots of springing and striding, etc). Weapon Finesse and 2 levels of Swordsage for Shadow Blade (ToB) will let you put less emphasis on strength. Then you can focus on Con, Dex, and Wis.
CrimsonDeath
11-10-07, 11:55 AM Oh, and thanks to the errata, Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz are Fighter bonus feats now, which places Rapid Blitz within the reach of characters without perfect BAB.
Mesiolan
11-13-07, 02:40 AM Quote: Oh, and thanks to the errata, Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz are Fighter bonus feats now, which places Rapid Blitz within the reach of characters without perfect BAB.

I think, a fighter still needs to qualify for the feat to pick it. >shrug<
Too lazy to look up the SRD.

I played a xeph scout/PsyWar/Elocater some time ago. My experience was, that a tumbled/spring attacked charge was not worth a second attack (with bounding assault or psionic lions charge), 'cause I put everything I had into the first attack.

I used a +2 impaling keen helberd at higher levels.

* impaling: 3/day I had a touch attack roll with the weapon instead of the normal attack roll (for piercing melee wp only, MIC).

* I dumped everything into power attack, prepared a greater psionic weapon, dissolving weapon power (each +4d6 damage), and charged the target. Leap attack added loads of damage (power attack x3 instead of x2 after a charge). At lv. 12, I had, like Str 20, and did some 70 HP on a charge. If it was not enough to down the foe, I moved out via hustle, or stayed to provide flanking for the rogue. Thanks to power attack, the BAB was zero after the charge, and a second attack at -5 was not worth the pp for psionic lion's charge.

* telling blow and keen weapon added the skirmish damage on a crit. Might be more useful for a scimitar or a rapier, but I wanted the reach and the impaling nastyness of the helberd - combined with expansion, of course.

* linked power allowed for 2 buffs with a single standard action - i.e. force screen and expansion, and the second one manifests at the beginning of your next turn "for free". So, I used a linked power as a standard action, used the move action to refocus, and had two more buffs at the beginning of round two.
CrimsonDeath
11-13-07, 11:27 AM I think, a fighter still needs to qualify for the feat to pick it. >shrug<

Yeah, I know a Fighter still needs to qualify for any feat he gains. But have you seen the prerequisites for Rapid Blitz? +18 BAB. When does a character get his last feat that isn't a bonus feat? Level 18. So, before the errata, the only way to get Rapid Blitz was to get to level 18 without losing a point of BAB. Now, you can lose up to two points of BAB and pick it up as late ast level 20 with a Fighter bonus feat.

(Maybe I just need to start being this specific in the first place all the time...)
Gray Scholar
11-13-07, 03:39 PM Thanks for the ideas! There are some good thoughts here. About some specifics:

Bounding assault and boots of go-faster are certainly on my list of things to get.

Can you charge and spring attack at the same time? I thought you had to go past your target with spring attack, and that you couldn't go past your target on a charge. I also didn't think halberds had reach. Maybe a ranseur instead? Or maybe reach from Expansion?

My DM doesn't have the Book of 9 Swords, so no swordsage for me. If he did have it, I might have gone with straight swordsage in the first place. He doesn't have the Magic Item Compendium, either, so no impaling, unless it's also in another book.

I'd take a level of barbarian, but I think the XP penalty would hurt too much.

Scout does seem to fit my character pretty well. I suppose I could go with scout 3/psywarrior 3/elocator 7, or even barbarian 3/psywar 2/elocator 8 (or even barbarian 2/scout 3/psywar 2/elocator 6, I suppose), but I'm worried that I'd lose too many power points and powers known by multiclassing away from psywarrior. Or does the fact that I'll lose 3 manifester levels from elocator anyway mean I shouldn't worry about that?

I had been avoiding taking feats that require me to lose psionic focus, because I didn't want to lose focus, thanks to the speed of thought feat (and, to a lesser extent, psionic dodge). I somehow never thought of using hustle to regain focus. Thanks for the idea! It does, however, mean there is Yet Another Feat (psionic meditation) that I need to take.

@Mesiolan: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Psionic Weapon, Greater Psionic Weapon, Telling Blow, Linked Power, and Psionic Meditation, all by 12th level? Were you using flaws, or something?
CrimsonDeath
11-13-07, 04:10 PM Can you charge and spring attack at the same time? I thought you had to go past your target with spring attack, and that you couldn't go past your target on a charge.

You can't charge and Spring Attack at the same time, but that's not why. With Spring Attack, you're allowed to move in any direction you're capable of moving, up to your speed, and make an attack action somewhere along the way. You can run past your opponent if you want to, but you don't have to; you can turn around and go back to where you started. A charge, on the other hand, is a specific full-round action, which takes up your entire round so that you don't have a standard action plus a move action that would be necessary to Spring Attack. (Then, of course, if you're Slowed or something and only have a Standard or Move action each round, you can use a Standard action to perform a Partial Charge, but since you don't have both a Standard action and a Move action, you can't Spring Attack anyway.)
Mesiolan
11-14-07, 01:41 AM Quote: @Mesiolan: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Psionic Weapon, Greater Psionic Weapon, Telling Blow, Linked Power, and Psionic Meditation, all by 12th level? Were you using flaws, or something?

No, the PC had all of the feats at the end of his career (lv. 19, Shackled City campaign), not at lv. 12. Sorry, at lv. 12 he had 8 feats (1 bonus from scout 4, 2 bonus from psywar 3). IIRC the build was like

1) Dodge
P1) Mobility
3) Power Attack
P2) Linked Power
6) Telling Blow
S4) Spring Attack
9) Psionic Wp
12) Psionic Meditate
15) Gr. Ps. Wp
18) Leap Attack
P5) Practiced Manifester

In the end he was Scout 4/Psywar 5/Eloc 10. Manifester level 12/16. If we had hit Lv. 20, he'd take Scout 5 for +1d6 skirmish and a phletora of skillpoints.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gray Scholar 11-08-07, 05:47 PM	I'm not sure this is the proper forum for this question, but it does involve a psionic character, so hopefully I will be forgiven. I want some help in creating an effective high-level character. It does not have to be an optimal character by any means, but I'm afraid that if I go with what seems fun, I'll end up with a character that can't really do much. (See below for a possible example.) I intend to run a 13th-level xeph psychic warrior/elocator. The idea is to have a 'hit and run' character: move in, attack, and move out of harm's way before they can hit back. What sort of stats (attack bonus, damage, saves, AC, etc.) would I want for such a character, so that he can hold his own in a fight? I don't have a lot of experience with 3rd edition D&D, and I have no experience with high-level 3rd edition D&D. Hence, my call for help. My first idea was to use claws of the beast and inertial armor (and extend power) every day, instead of using a weapon and armor. Then, I discovered that I could replace 3-4 powers, 2 feats, and a daily use of 40% of my power points by purchasing two items totaling about 25K in gold, and still have about the same level of effectiveness. That seemed like I was being too 'inefficient' for my own good; I didn't think I could do as well as I should in a fight by handicapping myself like that. Any hints?
Nibbler 11-09-07, 11:37 PM	If you're wanting to do lots of damage with Spring Attack, you might want to look at the Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz feats from PHB2. The BAB prerequisites are high but they allow you to make a 2nd and 3rd attack when spring attacking. You'll want to maximize your speed to get you out of harms way (a level of barbarian, boots of springing and striding, etc). Weapon Finesse and 2 levels of Swordsage for Shadow Blade (ToB) will let you put less emphasis on strength. Then you can focus on Con, Dex, and Wis.
CrimsonDeath 11-10-07, 11:55 AM	Oh, and thanks to the errata, Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz are Fighter bonus feats now, which places Rapid Blitz within the reach of characters without perfect BAB.
Mesiolan 11-13-07, 02:40 AM	Quote: Oh, and thanks to the errata, Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz are Fighter bonus feats now, which places Rapid Blitz within the reach of characters without perfect BAB. I think, a fighter still needs to qualify for the feat to pick it. >shrug< Too lazy to look up the SRD. I played a xeph scout/PsyWar/Elocater some time ago. My experience was, that a tumbled/spring attacked charge was not worth a second attack (with bounding assault or psionic lions charge), 'cause I put everything I had into the first attack. I used a +2 impaling keen helberd at higher levels. * impaling: 3/day I had a touch attack roll with the weapon instead of the normal attack roll (for piercing melee wp only, MIC). * I dumped everything into power attack, prepared a greater psionic weapon, dissolving weapon power (each +4d6 damage), and charged the target. Leap attack added loads of damage (power attack x3 instead of x2 after a charge). At lv. 12, I had, like Str 20, and did some 70 HP on a charge. If it was not enough to down the foe, I moved out via hustle, or stayed to provide flanking for the rogue. Thanks to power attack, the BAB was zero after the charge, and a second attack at -5 was not worth the pp for psionic lion's charge. * telling blow and keen weapon added the skirmish damage on a crit. Might be more useful for a scimitar or a rapier, but I wanted the reach and the impaling nastyness of the helberd - combined with expansion, of course. * linked power allowed for 2 buffs with a single standard action - i.e. force screen and expansion, and the second one manifests at the beginning of your next turn "for free". So, I used a linked power as a standard action, used the move action to refocus, and had two more buffs at the beginning of round two.
CrimsonDeath 11-13-07, 11:27 AM	I think, a fighter still needs to qualify for the feat to pick it. >shrug< Yeah, I know a Fighter still needs to qualify for any feat he gains. But have you seen the prerequisites for Rapid Blitz? +18 BAB. When does a character get his last feat that isn't a bonus feat? Level 18. So, before the errata, the only way to get Rapid Blitz was to get to level 18 without losing a point of BAB. Now, you can lose up to two points of BAB and pick it up as late ast level 20 with a Fighter bonus feat. (Maybe I just need to start being this specific in the first place all the time...)
Gray Scholar 11-13-07, 03:39 PM	Thanks for the ideas! There are some good thoughts here. About some specifics: Bounding assault and boots of go-faster are certainly on my list of things to get. Can you charge and spring attack at the same time? I thought you had to go past your target with spring attack, and that you couldn't go past your target on a charge. I also didn't think halberds had reach. Maybe a ranseur instead? Or maybe reach from Expansion? My DM doesn't have the Book of 9 Swords, so no swordsage for me. If he did have it, I might have gone with straight swordsage in the first place. He doesn't have the Magic Item Compendium, either, so no impaling, unless it's also in another book. I'd take a level of barbarian, but I think the XP penalty would hurt too much. Scout does seem to fit my character pretty well. I suppose I could go with scout 3/psywarrior 3/elocator 7, or even barbarian 3/psywar 2/elocator 8 (or even barbarian 2/scout 3/psywar 2/elocator 6, I suppose), but I'm worried that I'd lose too many power points and powers known by multiclassing away from psywarrior. Or does the fact that I'll lose 3 manifester levels from elocator anyway mean I shouldn't worry about that? I had been avoiding taking feats that require me to lose psionic focus, because I didn't want to lose focus, thanks to the speed of thought feat (and, to a lesser extent, psionic dodge). I somehow never thought of using hustle to regain focus. Thanks for the idea! It does, however, mean there is Yet Another Feat (psionic meditation) that I need to take. @Mesiolan: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Psionic Weapon, Greater Psionic Weapon, Telling Blow, Linked Power, and Psionic Meditation, all by 12th level? Were you using flaws, or something?
CrimsonDeath 11-13-07, 04:10 PM	Can you charge and spring attack at the same time? I thought you had to go past your target with spring attack, and that you couldn't go past your target on a charge. You can't charge and Spring Attack at the same time, but that's not why. With Spring Attack, you're allowed to move in any direction you're capable of moving, up to your speed, and make an attack action somewhere along the way. You can run past your opponent if you want to, but you don't have to; you can turn around and go back to where you started. A charge, on the other hand, is a specific full-round action, which takes up your entire round so that you don't have a standard action plus a move action that would be necessary to Spring Attack. (Then, of course, if you're Slowed or something and only have a Standard or Move action each round, you can use a Standard action to perform a Partial Charge, but since you don't have both a Standard action and a Move action, you can't Spring Attack anyway.)
Mesiolan 11-14-07, 01:41 AM	Quote: @Mesiolan: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Psionic Weapon, Greater Psionic Weapon, Telling Blow, Linked Power, and Psionic Meditation, all by 12th level? Were you using flaws, or something? No, the PC had all of the feats at the end of his career (lv. 19, Shackled City campaign), not at lv. 12. Sorry, at lv. 12 he had 8 feats (1 bonus from scout 4, 2 bonus from psywar 3). IIRC the build was like 1) Dodge P1) Mobility 3) Power Attack P2) Linked Power 6) Telling Blow S4) Spring Attack 9) Psionic Wp 12) Psionic Meditate 15) Gr. Ps. Wp 18) Leap Attack P5) Practiced Manifester In the end he was Scout 4/Psywar 5/Eloc 10. Manifester level 12/16. If we had hit Lv. 20, he'd take Scout 5 for +1d6 skirmish and a phletora of skillpoints.