Clearing Up CPsi [Archive] - Wizards Community

Clearing Up CPsi [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tectorman
11-27-07, 12:20 PM I'm just trying to understand this book.

First off, Divine Minds learn their first power known at 5th level. The last sentence of that paragraph is "At each additional level, a divine mind gains one additional power (if available) from his chosen levels." But according to the table, Divine Minds learn new powers at the same progression as Wilders, just four levels later (learn one, learn one, wait a level then learn one, etc.).

The default rule is that text trumps table. Default doesn't mean "always", though, so which is it?

Second, under the Power Points/Day section, it says "A 1st- through 4th-level divine mind gains no power points for his class levels; his bonus power points (if he is entitled to any) become available when he begins to accrue the power points provided by his class at 5th level." So does this mean no Wild Talent? The first four levels that say they get 0, then 1, then 2, then 3 power points aren't supposed to be there? What then is the actual power point progression of this class? Or are there some benefits (besides being able to attain a psionic focus or an Elan's special abilities) that a psionic character can use these power points for? In other words, does this just mean that the Divine Mind can't use these power points to manifest powers (even powers from other psionic class levels), but he'd be able to use them as mentioned above (Elans and psionic focuses).

Sorry if it seems like I'm being thick.

Note: all quotations were taken from the book Complete Psionic.

Finally, I just want to be sure I'm sure of the benefits that Ardents and Divine Minds get.

An Ardent gets six granted abilities, 21 powers known (half of which must be from his primary mantles) and a class powers list consisting of the combined lists of his six psionic mantles. Is that about right?

A Divine Mind gets up to three psychic auras usable out of six auras known (the three standards: attack, defense, and perception, and three from his mantles), nine (?, see above) powers known from a list of up to three psionic mantles with no restrictions in terms of primary and secondary, and three granted abilities. Is that everything?
kyeudo
11-27-07, 04:57 PM Welcome to the cess pool of misprinting that is Comp Psi.

The typical way to decide what is correct and what is not is to ignore the table and go with the actual text, which should answer most of your questions.

However, the power points from the Divine Mind's Wild Talent feat are not included on the Divine Mind table. He gets those 2 power points in addition to what he is given in his class discription.
Fatalis_902
11-27-07, 05:05 PM There's an easier way to deal with the Divine Mind:
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee244/darksong_902/motivator9106935.jpg

Seriously, if you want to play a religious psionic character, who derives power from his god's philosophy, play an ardent. Same power mechanic and source, potentially same flavor, infinately superior crunch.
AntiDjinn
11-27-07, 07:14 PM Why are you even looking at the divine mind like it is a class actually meant to be played? What happens at level 5 is irrelevant because your character will likely die at the hands of your own party (who will merely being trying to end his suffering) by level 3.
Pitiless_Interfector
11-27-07, 08:28 PM Why are you even looking at the divine mind like it is a class actually meant to be played? What happens at level 5 is irrelevant because your character will likely die at the hands of your own party (who will merely being (shouldn't be here; future imperfect tense doesn't agree with the participle-infinitive construction) trying to end his suffering) by level 3.

Well, there is the important distinction of ardents being atheist (professional respect for like-minded divinities notwithstanding), while divine minds actually get much of their power from their devotion to a god.
(Though I will admit, a good BAB [the first ever seen in a psionic base class] would have been nice... and is probably necessary).

Personally, I'm of a mind to stop complaining about how crappy it is and actually start to do something about it, rather than just wasting bandwidth. People, we know Michelle Lyons, Ray Vallese, and their editing manager Kim Mohan are not great in my eyes. So let's all stop b!tch-slapping a dead horse and try to clean up the mess before 4e hits the shelves.
Deekin
11-27-07, 10:52 PM Well, there is the important distinction of ardents being atheist (professional respect for like-minded divinities notwithstanding), while divine minds actually get much of their power from their devotion to a god.
(Though I will admit, a good BAB [the first ever seen in a psionic base class] would have been nice... and is probably necessary).

Personally, I'm of a mind to stop complaining about how crappy it is and actually start to do something about it, rather than just wasting bandwidth. People, we know Michelle Lyons, Ray Vallese, and their editing manager Kim Mohan are not great in my eyes. So let's all stop b!tch-slapping a dead horse and try to clean up the mess before 4e hits the shelves.

And that's why Dreamscarred press was founded.
Bacris
11-27-07, 11:18 PM And that's why Dreamscarred press was founded.

:)

I love when people say the best thing about Complete Psionic was Dreamscarred Press. Makes the countless hours worth it (sure ain't for the pay! :rofl:)
AntiDjinn
11-27-07, 11:26 PM Personally, I'm of a mind to stop complaining about how crappy it is and actually start to do something about it, rather than just wasting bandwidth. People, we know Michelle Lyons, Ray Vallese, and their editing manager Kim Mohan are not great in my eyes. So let's all stop b!tch-slapping a dead horse and try to clean up the mess before 4e hits the shelves.
The board regulars are actually way ahead of you on this and have turned out more original (and published) material than you seem to suspect. But the poster of this topic was asking about interpretation of the material as published in Comp. Psi, not someone's table rule or homebrew class. And anything you might put out here on the Divine Mind is just a table rule; actually publishing anything that references the new classes in Comp. Psi is a violation of copyright until the book is added to the SRD and made OGL content. At this point, if someone has a question about Comp. Psi and is not asking for everyone else's table rules, your homebrew + 1 buck will get him a coke.
Bacris
11-27-07, 11:44 PM AntiDjinn brings up a great point.

Tectorman - your best bet is to send in a request to WotC Cust Serv... the reason being is the majority folks on this board either dislike or loathe the Divine Mind. If you look at it from the perspective that the Ardent and Divine Mind were once one class split in two, it makes it a bit more obvious why the Divine Mind has so many mechanical questions.

Also, something to remember about Ardents - it isn't that half their powers have to be from their primary mantles, just that no secondary mantle can exceed the number of powers of a primary mantle. With the Tap Mantle feat, you can easily have 3+ secondary mantles, so only 40% of your powers might be from your primary mantles. My ardent, in fact, has Tap Mantle and most of his powers are from his secondary mantles, I'm just very careful about not choosing more powers in any secondary mantle than my primary mantles.
AntiDjinn
11-28-07, 01:23 AM The OGL situation for Comp. Psi. is actually worse for material that they got right (ardent, lurk, erudite) than for what they got wrong (most of the rest). There is more to be gained by expanding on good material than by trying to redeem complete dross. Many powers in UTP could be on mantles or other lists (doesn't Everyman obviously belong on the lurk list?). DSP and other 3rd party developers could be hard at work making new mantles, complete with original granted abilities. Unfortunately, WotC has made no noises about making Comp. Psi. content OGL, and if they wait long enough, no 3rd party developers are going to care when they should instead be devoting resources to developing for 4.0.
awaken_D_M_golem
11-30-07, 04:08 PM :eek: Divine Mind at level 3 can do:

2 3ML Astral Constructs with Ectopic Form
Consumption Mantle Aura + Ardent's Substitute Power = 1 power more or less at will
because of your Psionic Artificer buddy with 2 flaws, Mercantile, Craft CC, the 2 feats from MoI

oh and act like a lesser version of Aristocrat

Can't Horses take Hidden Talent ?!
{ ... and consequentially benefit from the DivM's Consumption Aura ... }

Hey (hay), My horse just manifested Entangling Ectoplasm
How he do dat ?!

The secret power of the Divine Mind is in it's ability to take Leadership at level 6, and get a strong character than itself. ;)
Enchanter_Tom
11-30-07, 05:23 PM Rather than trying to do anything with the divine mind, just go here:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=919580

I've done the work for you.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tectorman 11-27-07, 12:20 PM	I'm just trying to understand this book. First off, Divine Minds learn their first power known at 5th level. The last sentence of that paragraph is "At each additional level, a divine mind gains one additional power (if available) from his chosen levels." But according to the table, Divine Minds learn new powers at the same progression as Wilders, just four levels later (learn one, learn one, wait a level then learn one, etc.). The default rule is that text trumps table. Default doesn't mean "always", though, so which is it? Second, under the Power Points/Day section, it says "A 1st- through 4th-level divine mind gains no power points for his class levels; his bonus power points (if he is entitled to any) become available when he begins to accrue the power points provided by his class at 5th level." So does this mean no Wild Talent? The first four levels that say they get 0, then 1, then 2, then 3 power points aren't supposed to be there? What then is the actual power point progression of this class? Or are there some benefits (besides being able to attain a psionic focus or an Elan's special abilities) that a psionic character can use these power points for? In other words, does this just mean that the Divine Mind can't use these power points to manifest powers (even powers from other psionic class levels), but he'd be able to use them as mentioned above (Elans and psionic focuses). Sorry if it seems like I'm being thick. Note: all quotations were taken from the book Complete Psionic. Finally, I just want to be sure I'm sure of the benefits that Ardents and Divine Minds get. An Ardent gets six granted abilities, 21 powers known (half of which must be from his primary mantles) and a class powers list consisting of the combined lists of his six psionic mantles. Is that about right? A Divine Mind gets up to three psychic auras usable out of six auras known (the three standards: attack, defense, and perception, and three from his mantles), nine (?, see above) powers known from a list of up to three psionic mantles with no restrictions in terms of primary and secondary, and three granted abilities. Is that everything?
kyeudo 11-27-07, 04:57 PM	Welcome to the cess pool of misprinting that is Comp Psi. The typical way to decide what is correct and what is not is to ignore the table and go with the actual text, which should answer most of your questions. However, the power points from the Divine Mind's Wild Talent feat are not included on the Divine Mind table. He gets those 2 power points in addition to what he is given in his class discription.
Fatalis_902 11-27-07, 05:05 PM	There's an easier way to deal with the Divine Mind: http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee244/darksong_902/motivator9106935.jpg Seriously, if you want to play a religious psionic character, who derives power from his god's philosophy, play an ardent. Same power mechanic and source, potentially same flavor, infinately superior crunch.
AntiDjinn 11-27-07, 07:14 PM	Why are you even looking at the divine mind like it is a class actually meant to be played? What happens at level 5 is irrelevant because your character will likely die at the hands of your own party (who will merely being trying to end his suffering) by level 3.
Pitiless_Interfector 11-27-07, 08:28 PM	Why are you even looking at the divine mind like it is a class actually meant to be played? What happens at level 5 is irrelevant because your character will likely die at the hands of your own party (who will merely being (shouldn't be here; future imperfect tense doesn't agree with the participle-infinitive construction) trying to end his suffering) by level 3. Well, there is the important distinction of ardents being atheist (professional respect for like-minded divinities notwithstanding), while divine minds actually get much of their power from their devotion to a god. (Though I will admit, a good BAB [the first ever seen in a psionic base class] would have been nice... and is probably necessary). Personally, I'm of a mind to stop complaining about how crappy it is and actually start to do something about it, rather than just wasting bandwidth. People, we know Michelle Lyons, Ray Vallese, and their editing manager Kim Mohan are not great in my eyes. So let's all stop b!tch-slapping a dead horse and try to clean up the mess before 4e hits the shelves.
Deekin 11-27-07, 10:52 PM	Well, there is the important distinction of ardents being atheist (professional respect for like-minded divinities notwithstanding), while divine minds actually get much of their power from their devotion to a god. (Though I will admit, a good BAB [the first ever seen in a psionic base class] would have been nice... and is probably necessary). Personally, I'm of a mind to stop complaining about how crappy it is and actually start to do something about it, rather than just wasting bandwidth. People, we know Michelle Lyons, Ray Vallese, and their editing manager Kim Mohan are not great in my eyes. So let's all stop b!tch-slapping a dead horse and try to clean up the mess before 4e hits the shelves. And that's why Dreamscarred press was founded.
Bacris 11-27-07, 11:18 PM	And that's why Dreamscarred press was founded. :) I love when people say the best thing about Complete Psionic was Dreamscarred Press. Makes the countless hours worth it (sure ain't for the pay! :rofl:)
AntiDjinn 11-27-07, 11:26 PM	Personally, I'm of a mind to stop complaining about how crappy it is and actually start to do something about it, rather than just wasting bandwidth. People, we know Michelle Lyons, Ray Vallese, and their editing manager Kim Mohan are not great in my eyes. So let's all stop b!tch-slapping a dead horse and try to clean up the mess before 4e hits the shelves. The board regulars are actually way ahead of you on this and have turned out more original (and published) material than you seem to suspect. But the poster of this topic was asking about interpretation of the material as published in Comp. Psi, not someone's table rule or homebrew class. And anything you might put out here on the Divine Mind is just a table rule; actually publishing anything that references the new classes in Comp. Psi is a violation of copyright until the book is added to the SRD and made OGL content. At this point, if someone has a question about Comp. Psi and is not asking for everyone else's table rules, your homebrew + 1 buck will get him a coke.
Bacris 11-27-07, 11:44 PM	AntiDjinn brings up a great point. Tectorman - your best bet is to send in a request to WotC Cust Serv... the reason being is the majority folks on this board either dislike or loathe the Divine Mind. If you look at it from the perspective that the Ardent and Divine Mind were once one class split in two, it makes it a bit more obvious why the Divine Mind has so many mechanical questions. Also, something to remember about Ardents - it isn't that half their powers have to be from their primary mantles, just that no secondary mantle can exceed the number of powers of a primary mantle. With the Tap Mantle feat, you can easily have 3+ secondary mantles, so only 40% of your powers might be from your primary mantles. My ardent, in fact, has Tap Mantle and most of his powers are from his secondary mantles, I'm just very careful about not choosing more powers in any secondary mantle than my primary mantles.
AntiDjinn 11-28-07, 01:23 AM	The OGL situation for Comp. Psi. is actually worse for material that they got right (ardent, lurk, erudite) than for what they got wrong (most of the rest). There is more to be gained by expanding on good material than by trying to redeem complete dross. Many powers in UTP could be on mantles or other lists (doesn't Everyman obviously belong on the lurk list?). DSP and other 3rd party developers could be hard at work making new mantles, complete with original granted abilities. Unfortunately, WotC has made no noises about making Comp. Psi. content OGL, and if they wait long enough, no 3rd party developers are going to care when they should instead be devoting resources to developing for 4.0.
awaken_D_M_golem 11-30-07, 04:08 PM	:eek: Divine Mind at level 3 can do: 2 3ML Astral Constructs with Ectopic Form Consumption Mantle Aura + Ardent's Substitute Power = 1 power more or less at will because of your Psionic Artificer buddy with 2 flaws, Mercantile, Craft CC, the 2 feats from MoI oh and act like a lesser version of Aristocrat Can't Horses take Hidden Talent ?! { ... and consequentially benefit from the DivM's Consumption Aura ... } Hey (hay), My horse just manifested Entangling Ectoplasm How he do dat ?! The secret power of the Divine Mind is in it's ability to take Leadership at level 6, and get a strong character than itself. ;)
Enchanter_Tom 11-30-07, 05:23 PM	Rather than trying to do anything with the divine mind, just go here: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=919580 I've done the work for you.