Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Adamaro23 09-12-07, 02:04 AM	I'm wondering how everyone feels about Cognize Crystals. I'm considering using some. but was wondering about everyone's input.
Deekin 09-12-07, 02:39 AM	I'm wondering how everyone feels about Cognize Crystals. I'm considering using some. but was wondering about everyone's input. I don't use them, becouse the cost the same as a pearl of power, and give less of a benifit.
AntiDjinn 09-12-07, 03:25 AM	It depends on what you are asking. If you are a player and find one as loot in a dungeon you are not going to throw it on the floor and cry that the DM is being mean. You are going to use it. They are pretty common as psionic swag: Fully 25-30% of random psionic items will be cog crystals. Pointless to compare them to the cost of pearls of power if you get both by the raid dungeons, slay monsters, and take their stuff method; cost is basically $stolen in both cases. If by "use" you mean purchase or commission crafters to make them, then no way. Why buy something that is some common as treasure? If you mean take the feat to craft the item, then it is a pretty poor choice; other items crafting feats have much higher utility. Cog crystals are odd in this regard: Their high probability on the random psionic treasure table dictates that every adventuring manifester will likely have several, but the poor utility of the crafting feat indicates that no one in their right mind should be making them. So how all the cog crystals actually wind up in treasure troves is anyone's guess.
rilem 09-12-07, 12:03 PM	As a possible flavor solution for this, eliminate the craft-crystal feat and say conizance crystals are not created, but are a naturally occuring material (perhaps the calcified brains of former psionic creatures).
Scion of Coldshard 09-12-07, 12:06 PM	Buy them? not a chance. Find them and use them? Not really likely, find them and sell them is more likely. Essentially I treat them as finding gold that must be converted before it can be used. With transparency I would assume pearls of power can be used as cognizance crystals as a secondary effect. As in, they would give a caster his spell slot and be able to store an appropriate amount of pp. In that case if a caster happened to have one and I was playing a manifester I would likely try to store some pp in it for future use.. but that would be the limit of it. It also seems pretty likely that those pp would either never be used or see use so infrequently as to make the option basically negligable. When you can pop the ability on to another item and not see a noticeable shift in power you know something is wrong.
Orenmir 09-12-07, 12:45 PM	Most people seem to find Cognizance Crystals useless, so... How would you recommend a player with low PPs (like a PsyWar) boost up his reserve?
Lycanthromancer 09-12-07, 01:19 PM	Dorjes and power stones.
Scion of Coldshard 09-12-07, 01:22 PM	Most people seem to find Cognizance Crystals useless, so... How would you recommend a player with low PPs (like a PsyWar) boost up his reserve? I give psychic warriors more base pp in my game by default.. but I would recommend to such a character that they get a stat boosting item as high as they can afford and anything that continuously boosts their manifester level (orange ioun stone for example).
AntiDjinn 09-12-07, 01:27 PM	As a possible flavor solution for this, eliminate the craft-crystal feat and say cognizance crystals are not created, but are a naturally occurring material (perhaps the calcified brains of former psionic creatures). My group toyed with this idea for capacitance crystals back in 3.0, but it never took off. The idea was that in certain exotic locales rare crystals would begin to resonate with psionic energy. Just like real world minerals, these would vary in purity (point value) as well as shape, size, and degree to which they are embedded in other materials. Because they form naturally, two crystals of the same point value might not resemble each other; it would take someone who knows exactly what he is looking for to identify one in its raw state. The cost of such crystals would be based on the fact that finding them requires considerable skill, time (they don't form in nearby locations, or assume all the local ones have already been found), and probably some risk (the areas where they form tend to attract monsters that feed on psionic energy). Value would be based on two factors: Point storage capacity and portability. A three point crystal that you can hold in one hand might be worth more than a 5 point crystal that is a medium encumbrance load for Str 10, which in turn might be worth more than a 7 point crystal that is completely immobile. A 17 point crystal that is fixed in the BBEG's laboratory (maybe it actually is the chamber; the walls are crystalline and form one large cog crystal) might be invaluable to the BBEG, but worthless to the party, unless they move in, because they can't take it with them. Remember, no one crafts them, so no one is pre-determining their parameters, so for any given crystal you get what you get. To unify the system you would have to make certain assumptions that apply to all natural storage crystals, such as: 1) Normal Cog crystal rules apply: They occur in odd point values between 1 and 17 (maybe higher for completely immobile crystals). The bottleneck rule applies when using them. 2) They can't be cut, or cutting them risks ruining them. If you have a 5 point crystal that is inconveniently large or oddly-shaped, you either can't cut it, or cutting takes a skill roll that risks loosing the crystal. If you take the last option assume the final crystals must be of odd value so you loose a point when cutting one into two: cutting a 7 point crystal might give two 3 's or a 5 and 1. Cutting a crystal just to reduce its size and weight or change its shape without changing point value would also be risky: You have a 13 point crystal that weighs 100 lbs, is embedded in amorphous stone, and is shaped like the letter Z; a skilled gem-cutter might be able to cut away the extra material to make a more portable stone, but you might end up with worthless fragments. 3) They can't be fused. Gluing two 5 point natural crystals together produces an object that still acts as two separate 5 point crystals. 4) Only one person can use a given crystal at a time, regardless of size. This is important because when the party enters the BBEG's crystal throne-room they won't be able to draw on his points just because they are also in contact with the item. Or, if you like complexity, make no such assumptions and say that the rules may be different for any given crystal: You might find one for which the bottleneck rule does not apply: it acts as an extension of your personal pool. Another might be usable by mulitple manifesters simultaneously. Another might be portable, but can only be rechaged at a particular location.
kyeudo 09-12-07, 01:56 PM	AntiDjinn, you have a very awesome idea there. Personaly, I'd still let psions make their own cog crystals, should they choose to, but I'd fold craft cog crystal into craft universal item and also make sure that 'natural' cog crystals are more useful on average.
Racinante 09-12-07, 04:11 PM	Most people seem to find Cognizance Crystals useless, so... How would you recommend a player with low PPs (like a PsyWar) boost up his reserve? Rainbow ioun stones....
Lokiyn 09-12-07, 05:10 PM	AZURE TALENT [INCARNUM, PSIONIC] (MoI) + PSYCARNUM INFUSION [PSIONIC] (MoI) + Cognizance Crystal (XPH) = Win Or better put, if you can spare the feats, combining the Azure Talent Feat and the Psycarnum Infusion feat allows you to temporrarily gain bonus power points for a single round. Before those disappear, rather than spend them, you could instead place them in a power point storage device for later use. This allows Psions, or rather the Power point fighter Psywar to stretch out thier endurance far beyond the normal limits of a character, of course that is as long as you use the low pp powers to maximum potential.
Orenmir 09-12-07, 05:11 PM	Rainbow ioun stones.... Ah yes, that's a good option. Athough, I think you meant to say "Rainbow Ioun Stone" (singular) since you can't use more than one of the same type/color. Although, I guess you could store one after use and then pull out a fresh one. Nevermind. :D
Scion of Coldshard 09-12-07, 06:07 PM	AZURE TALENT [INCARNUM, PSIONIC] (MoI) + PSYCARNUM INFUSION [PSIONIC] (MoI) + Cognizance Crystal (XPH) = Win Since the ability gives you bonus pp instead of temporary pp it looks to me like you have basically no net gain here. Current pp total = X Activate azure talent and expend focus, current pp total = X + Y Spend Y pp during the round After the round your pp total = X - Y (min 0?) Once you hit 0 pp you can no longer gain focus which means you cannot keep doing this for bursts of pp's. It looks like about the best you can do is when you are at 1 pp gain a few from the combo, spend them, and then be down to zero.. effectively netting a few pp for the day.
kyeudo 09-12-07, 07:00 PM	Scion's math looks to be the one that makes the most sense of any argument I've ever seen that included this combo, yet everyone keeps claiming that this works.
MnemonicSV 09-13-07, 05:59 AM	Personaly, I'd still let psions make their own cog crystals, should they choose to, but I'd fold craft cog crystal into craft universal item and also make sure that 'natural' cog crystals are more useful on average. This is where I cast my vote. Craft Cognizanze Crystal really is a poor feat choice on it's own; Folding it into Craft Universal Item is the best route. The only other thing I can think of that would make Craft Cognizance Crystal a little more attractive is to drop the prerequisite manifester level right down to 1. At least you could rationalize that a few neophyte NPC psions might take the feat (as a bonus feat) at first level, well before they have the forethought to actually realize how impractical it is in the long run. If you are willing to allow creatures/characters with psi-like abilities to take psionic item creation feats (a la Complete Arcane's rationale of SLAs qualifying for item creation feats) then it is possible for non-manifesting characters to create CogCrystals too (even though they couldn't use them). The concept seems thematically flawed to me, but some might let it fly.
Racinante 09-13-07, 10:07 AM	Ah yes, that's a good option. Athough, I think you meant to say "Rainbow Ioun Stone" (singular) since you can't use more than one of the same type/color. Although, I guess you could store one after use and then pull out a fresh one. Nevermind. :D Sure you can, nothing prevents having more than one. Most provide a bonus that does not stack with copies (like a +1 insight bonus to AC), but the rainbow provides 5 power points, just like a cognizance crystal. The only difference is that it is costed like a CC one level higher and it regenerates its points each day. Based on the costing, you could have variants that provide more or less PP for an appropriate cost. PP Cost 1 4,000 gp 3 9,000 gp 5 16,000 gp 7 25,000 gp 9 36,000 gp 11 49,000 gp 13 64,000 gp 15 81,000 gp 17 100,000 gp
Varl 09-13-07, 12:50 PM	Or, if you like complexity, make no such assumptions and say that the rules may be different for any given crystal: You might find one for which the bottleneck rule does not apply: it acts as an extension of your personal pool. Another might be usable by mulitple manifesters simultaneously. Another might be portable, but can only be rechaged at a particular location. Excellent ideas you have here. It's amazing that they never took off with your group. I think the idea of psionic Ioun Stones and psionic storage crystals as boosters to your available PSP totals are a great idea. I don't think one has to make them clunky or unwieldy as some kind of offset to the PSPs they give you. As an example, the Intellect Devourer. It's a brain on legs, but what if those claws were minor PSP receptacles? A fetish of Intellect Devourer claws around one's neck could be a cool status symbol for your character to display, depending on the character, of course.
ck2001wendt 09-13-07, 01:59 PM	Right now my party has a Psion [me] and a Soulknife with Hidden Talent [Enlarge]. The Psion has asked me to charge 3 1st level Cog Crystals each night before I sleep with extra PP. This is absolutely worth it...3 times a day, I essentially increase his damage from 1d10 + 2xStr to 2d8 +2xStr+2...effectively I am doing 1d6 + 2 or (average 5.5) extra damage with the 1 PP I spent (which doesn't count toward my daily total), multipled by the number of attacks successfully made while he's enlarged. That is the most efficient use of PP I can think of. Otherwise, I think 1st-4th Cog crystals might be worth it as "eject buttons"...keep one around for D-Door, etc. But I would much rather just buy multiple Torcs of Power Preservation.
Lycanthromancer 09-13-07, 02:27 PM	Excellent ideas you have here. It's amazing that they never took off with your group. I think the idea of psionic Ioun Stones and psionic storage crystals as boosters to your available PSP totals are a great idea. I don't think one has to make them clunky or unwieldy as some kind of offset to the PSPs they give you. As an example, the Intellect Devourer. It's a brain on legs, but what if those claws were minor PSP receptacles? A fetish of Intellect Devourer claws around one's neck could be a cool status symbol for your character to display, depending on the character, of course.PPs, not PSPs. We're no longer in 2nd edition, Varl (even if you're stuck in retro-mode).
Orenmir 09-13-07, 02:29 PM	I would much rather just buy multiple Torcs of Power Preservation. You can only wear one. Why buy multiples?
Scion of Coldshard 09-13-07, 02:36 PM	You can only wear one. Why buy multiples? The version in MIC has limited uses per day. This is absolutely worth it I would argue that if regular pearls of power are worth the cost that they are given then the crystals are overcosted by a significant amount. Sure, they can be used for certain purposes.. but being able to be used doesnt really reflect on the price, how much they are 'worth' to the adventurers should be reflected in price. If they cost half as much as they currently do you could get the same use out of them but not be as heavily penalized by the gold cost ;)
Bacris 09-13-07, 02:49 PM	Wouldn't an easy fix be to make them auto-recharge, ala pearls of power? Rainbow Iouns Stone does it, and uses the same cost, to boot.
CrimsonDeath 09-13-07, 02:57 PM	Wouldn't an easy fix be to make them auto-recharge, ala pearls of power? Rainbow Iouns Stone does it, and uses the same cost, to boot. A compromise might be to have some that auto-recharge, but price them like the Memento Magica (the spontaneous caster's answer to the Pearl of Power).
Scion of Coldshard 09-13-07, 03:38 PM	Wouldn't an easy fix be to make them auto-recharge, ala pearls of power? Rainbow Iouns Stone does it, and uses the same cost, to boot. I am not sure what you mean. The rainbow ioun stone has 5 pp which recharge and costs 16,000 gp, a normal 5 point cognizance crystal costs 9,000 gp and a level 3 pearl of power costs 9,000 gp. The self recharging one looks to be counted as 2 pp (1 spell level) higher than the non recharging variety. An easy fix would be to make all cognizance crystals recharge on their own though ;)
Scion of Coldshard 09-13-07, 03:39 PM	A compromise might be to have some that auto-recharge, but price them like the Memento Magica (the spontaneous caster's answer to the Pearl of Power). I dont know the costs of the momento magica items but it could be important to note that powers do not freely scale and so a pearl of power of a specific level could have a lot more power behind it than an equivalent level power.
CrimsonDeath 09-13-07, 05:22 PM	I dont know the costs of the momento magica items but it could be important to note that powers do not freely scale and so a pearl of power of a specific level could have a lot more power behind it than an equivalent level power. Memento Magica costs 50% more than a Pearl of Power of the same level.
forsaken1111 09-13-07, 06:03 PM	Scion's math looks to be the one that makes the most sense of any argument I've ever seen that included this combo, yet everyone keeps claiming that this works. Temporary power points, just like temporary hitpoints, are used first. They aren't added to or subtracted from your power points, in fact they never touch or involve your power point pool at all. If you gain 10 temporary hitpoints that last 1 round and then take 12 damage, you don't lose another 10 hitpoints next round when the effect granting temp HP wears off.
kyeudo 09-13-07, 06:09 PM	The power points from Azure Talent arn't temporary power points, they're bonus power points, and so go right in your pool. When psycarnum infusion's effects wear off, the bonus pp goes with it.
forsaken1111 09-13-07, 06:11 PM	The power points from Azure Talent arn't temporary power points, their bonus power points, and so go right in your pool. When psycarnum infusion's effects wear off, the bonus pp goes with it. Ah, my mistake then. I'm AFB right now so couldn't check. :)
Moosh Nailo 09-13-07, 06:47 PM	How about the Psiforged Body feat in MoI? Worth it? With what I'm hearing here, I'm gonna guess not so much.
kyeudo 09-13-07, 06:52 PM	If I remember correctly, that feat turns your warforged into his own cog crystal. I think it ends up being a free 15 point cog crystal. I'd take it, except that Adamantine Body is much more useful and you can't have both.
Scion of Coldshard 09-13-07, 07:05 PM	I wouldnt take it in most cases. Some other body feat is more likely to have a higher impact. Or, if allowed, I'd take hidden talent. 2 pp all of the time plus a power known vs 1 pp and a storage capacity up to 11 pp at level 20 seems better to me.
AntiDjinn 09-13-07, 09:19 PM	The two sample characters that illustrate the Psiforged Body feat serve as perfect examples of the utility of the feat; they both declined to take it. They were written up to show you how the feat works, and took Adamantine Body instead, what more needs to be said?
sijigs 09-13-07, 09:57 PM	If I remember correctly, that feat turns your warforged into his own cog crystal. I think it ends up being a free 15 point cog crystal. I'd take it, except that Adamantine Body is much more useful and you can't have both. I read somewhere that you can get adamantine plating anyway - if you have the gp's.
Hassia 09-14-07, 11:06 AM	Search for a Power Link (Quori Embedded Shard, Magic of Eberron p. 115) if you are a Kalashtar. This item is aweful. For 3000 gp you get 3x2 power points per day (only for augmentation, but who cares) AND the maximum number of points you can spend on a power is manifester level + 2 (3/day)!!!
kyeudo 09-14-07, 11:36 AM	Just one more reason why Eberron is awesome.
Scion of Coldshard 09-14-07, 11:54 AM	Search for a Power Link (Quori Embedded Shard, Magic of Eberron p. 115) if you are a Kalashtar. This item is awful. For 3000 gp you get 3x2 power points per day (only for augmentation, but who cares) AND the maximum number of points you can spend on a power is manifester level + 2 (3/day)!!! It is considered to be a broken item by quite a few people ;) I believe that there is 'intended' errata someday to make them not be able to go above the maximum.. until then though, assuming that the errata hasnt happened yet, they go above the maximum and stack.. as such, I dont allow them as written personally..
Hassia 09-16-07, 06:41 PM	Yes, 3x2 PPs for augmentation is enough. No higher manifester level....