Considerations for Psionics in a new campaign? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Considerations for Psionics in a new campaign? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CryoSilver
01-08-08, 05:12 PM I just started DMing a new campaign on Sunday, with two of four players present. One of the absentees is playing a psion, and someone else is considering a psywar/fighter of some sort. I have not really used psionics before in 3.5, and hated it in 3.0 (because the 3.0 Psionics Handbook is not even useful as a doorstop). I am happy to allow new material in, but I was wondering if there were any hidden considerations I might be wise to make before I get in too deep.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated, and bear in mind that I am already a bit of a powergamer, so I understand how gamebreaking works. I'm looking for specific advice. really, such as the persistent rumor that psions tend to nova, and how to deal with things like that. :)

Thanks in advance, and I have all week to hear advice.
jbsaff
01-08-08, 05:28 PM I'm looking for specific advice. really, such as the persistent rumor that psions tend to nova, and how to deal with things like that. :)

Simple. The Psion blows his wad on the first or second encounter of the day. Congratulations, he just became a sitting duck of almost no help to the rest of the party for the rest of the day. Keep within +/- 1 of the suggested 4 encounters a day and you probably won't have any issues. If you find the Psion blowing his allotment and then trying to ride on the shoulders of the rest of the party, you can bring it up with the players. Otherwise, maybe come up with some normally trivial challenge and sic it on the psion. Something he would have handled easily if he hadn't made himself a walking backpack after the 1st encounter.

I've actually faced more problems from not following wealth by level guidelines than I have from nova tactics. Of course, that was early-to-mid levels (6-12).
hovnarr
01-08-08, 07:32 PM Playing a psion in a party successfully, at least to me, means being a team player. If you blow everything on encounter one, others won't have much time to shine. And they will have a hard time in encounter 2-4 since you're basically using a light crossbow and taking aid another actions. PP management is prime. A psion can do almost anything, but not AT ONCE, so picking powers that complement the party is also important.
InkBlot
01-08-08, 07:35 PM You don't need to actually have four encounters each day. Just have the threat of further encounters. If the characters are treking through the jungle, then they should have no idea when or where some hungry animal will strike. But the players will assume that you'll only send one hungry tiger after them. Show them that they're wrong once, and they won't make that assumption again.

(edit: All spellcasters have the problem of being able to go nova, by spending all their resources in one combat. Psionics just makes it easier to see that it's possible to do this, because the point system is so intuitive. It also helps if the adventure has some sort of incentive to keep going, or a time limit. That way the players won't be tempted to rest and recover slots/points after the first encounter of the day.)

Make sure you don't forget about the transparency rules. Spells that affect other spells affect powers just as well, and vice versa. Dispel magic can dispel a power, detect psionics can sense magical auras, lesser globe of invulnerability stops low level powers, spells can't be cast in a cast in a null psionics field, and so on and so forth. Furthermore, Power Resistance and Spell Resistance are just two words for exactly the same thing.

Remember that the psion can only spend a number of power points equal to his manifester level. A 3rd level psion can only spend 3 power points on each power. He can manifest a 1st level power (1pp) and augment it with two additional power points. He can manifest a 2nd level power (3pp), but can't augment it yet. He can apply metapsionic Extend Power (+2pp) to a 1st level power (1pp), but not to 2nd level powers.

Expending psionic focus only works for one thing at a time. All metapsionic feats require focus. This makes it impossible to use two metapsionic feats on a single manifestation of a power. The Psicrystal Containment feat gets around this by letting the psion use his psicrystals psionic focus, but then it's still impossible to apply three metapsi feats at once.

Feats that require you to maintain focus work continuously, and all work at together, until you expend focus. If the psion has Speed Of Thought and Up The Walls, then he can run forty feet up a wall as a move action (but no further, that's a limit of the feat not of focus).

You can only be focused, or unfocused. You can't be quintuple focused or anything like that. Each character, essentially, has only one psionic focus. However, there is the Psicrystal Containment feat I mentioned ealier, which allows you to expend your psicrystal's focus instead of your own.
The_Mess
01-08-08, 10:41 PM The FAQ at the top of the forum includes a DM's guide to psionics.
InkBlot
01-08-08, 10:53 PM Actually, the Guide (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=486266) is in the Master Index (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=289046) (which also at the top near the FAQ).
GuardianLurker
01-08-08, 11:59 PM Since you haven't said whether this is psionics-only, or if you already have a primary healer (like the cleric), a caution about non-HP healing is in order. Adverse conditions (blindness, stun, paralysis, etc.) are much harder to deal with in a psionics-only setting as the powers are either higher level (most frequently) or even absent. In other cases, the fact that psionic healing usually involves absorbing the condition, and *then* healing it, makes certain situations very hard to deal with.

Also be aware that the psionic equivalents of raise/resurrection are *much* more problematic. Psionic Revivify can only be used within *rounds*, and your only other alternatives are Bend Reality and Reality Revision.
AntiDjinn
01-09-08, 12:47 AM You should have relatively few problems with the psychic warrior. The class is fairly balanced. At low levels, the PsW is behind the damage curve compared to a fighter, but soon catches up. The lower BAB means more blows miss, but feats and powers soon boost damage to make the shots that hit count for more. For low level PsW's the limiting factor is power points. At higher levels the limiting factor is actions; the character may have plenty of points and many good buffs to choose from, but simply lack the time get them all up before he is in melee.

A Psychic Warrior without any buffs up fares in combat about as well as a Cleric without spells or a Monk with only one good save. With buffs in place a PsW can actually perform above his level for brief periods. One thing that was noted in 3.0 and continues to be true now is that if you take the level of encounter that a fully pumped psychic warrior can barely handle and plan on that as your typical encounter, then you will probably kill the character. If the CR of encounters is such that the PsW needs to have all his best powers active and needs to be focused, then sooner or later one of those encounters is going to go down when he isn't ready and he will get toasted. Don't plan encounters based on the buffs you expect him to have up, basically forcing him to use his powers when you see fit. Plan on encounters appropriate for his character level and let him decide how to manage his resources.

I am playing a Psychic Warrior now (level 9, half-giant) and while I don't always have the highest damage output (two fighters in the party are optimized for pain) I have provided scouting with my psicrystal, have saved the party from an ambush with Detect Hostile Intent, and have prevented a total party wipeout with Damp Power.
DracoPhoenix
01-09-08, 07:25 AM Yeah, the FAQ's your best starting point.

Other than that, the most common mistake I've heard about is people trying to blow all their pp in one power.
As opposed to the stated limit of the maximum pp you can use on one power is equal to your Manifester level.
mato_hibiki
01-09-08, 09:12 AM Also, be leery of the awesome combo that is power attack + leap attack + deep impact. It is literally ouch time when you're on the wrong end of that.

It doesn't sound like much at first, I know, but it can result in some disgusting amounts of pain when a barb leaps past the main tank to twak your BBEG spellcaster, KOing him in round one of combat.

Add in a psi crystal, psi crystal containment, and greater psionic weapon... Well, one BBEG turned into a DEAD small harmless corpse.

Now sometimes, sometimes a BBEG caster has a contingent teleport ready incase a barb looks at him funny... Or smiles.
Vharuck
01-09-08, 01:42 PM Don't forget to check the errata.
InkBlot
01-09-08, 02:33 PM Yes, the errata is important. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a)

It's especially important for the powers hammer and expansion.
CryoSilver
01-09-08, 03:33 PM Since you haven't said whether this is psionics-only...

It's not. The party would be a cleric, rogue, psywar and psion, I think.
GuardianLurker
01-09-08, 10:35 PM Well, in that case, the healing won't be much of an issue. The only little gotcha that I can think of (because the FAQ and the Problematic Powers thread cover most of the rest) is to be cautious about Energy Resistance. More specifically, if you're used to using it to tighten a combat (say you've got a lightning-happy sorcerer, and the BBEG has ER(lightning)), and you've got experienced/aware players, you won't be able to. As a matter of fact, if you've got a MIN/MAXer, expect the Sonic type to come into play a *LOT*.
CryoSilver
01-11-08, 02:25 PM So, enforce power point expenditure limits and be cautious about depending on energy resistance.

I read the errata.

Any other helpful hints before the game on Sunday?
Lycanthromancer
01-11-08, 04:36 PM Have fun?
CryoSilver
01-11-08, 06:16 PM Good advice; I was planning on whacking my groin with a hammer before the game, and then putting tacks on my keyboard, but you got me to change my mind, and now I'm going to have fun :P
Lycanthromancer
01-12-08, 11:05 AM Glad I intervened, then.

Basically, psionics is very much like magic, except its problems are less pronounced and far less damaging to a campaign, generally speaking.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CryoSilver 01-08-08, 05:12 PM	I just started DMing a new campaign on Sunday, with two of four players present. One of the absentees is playing a psion, and someone else is considering a psywar/fighter of some sort. I have not really used psionics before in 3.5, and hated it in 3.0 (because the 3.0 Psionics Handbook is not even useful as a doorstop). I am happy to allow new material in, but I was wondering if there were any hidden considerations I might be wise to make before I get in too deep. Any and all advice is greatly appreciated, and bear in mind that I am already a bit of a powergamer, so I understand how gamebreaking works. I'm looking for specific advice. really, such as the persistent rumor that psions tend to nova, and how to deal with things like that. :) Thanks in advance, and I have all week to hear advice.
jbsaff 01-08-08, 05:28 PM	I'm looking for specific advice. really, such as the persistent rumor that psions tend to nova, and how to deal with things like that. :) Simple. The Psion blows his wad on the first or second encounter of the day. Congratulations, he just became a sitting duck of almost no help to the rest of the party for the rest of the day. Keep within +/- 1 of the suggested 4 encounters a day and you probably won't have any issues. If you find the Psion blowing his allotment and then trying to ride on the shoulders of the rest of the party, you can bring it up with the players. Otherwise, maybe come up with some normally trivial challenge and sic it on the psion. Something he would have handled easily if he hadn't made himself a walking backpack after the 1st encounter. I've actually faced more problems from not following wealth by level guidelines than I have from nova tactics. Of course, that was early-to-mid levels (6-12).
hovnarr 01-08-08, 07:32 PM	Playing a psion in a party successfully, at least to me, means being a team player. If you blow everything on encounter one, others won't have much time to shine. And they will have a hard time in encounter 2-4 since you're basically using a light crossbow and taking aid another actions. PP management is prime. A psion can do almost anything, but not AT ONCE, so picking powers that complement the party is also important.
InkBlot 01-08-08, 07:35 PM	You don't need to actually have four encounters each day. Just have the threat of further encounters. If the characters are treking through the jungle, then they should have no idea when or where some hungry animal will strike. But the players will assume that you'll only send one hungry tiger after them. Show them that they're wrong once, and they won't make that assumption again. (edit: All spellcasters have the problem of being able to go nova, by spending all their resources in one combat. Psionics just makes it easier to see that it's possible to do this, because the point system is so intuitive. It also helps if the adventure has some sort of incentive to keep going, or a time limit. That way the players won't be tempted to rest and recover slots/points after the first encounter of the day.) Make sure you don't forget about the transparency rules. Spells that affect other spells affect powers just as well, and vice versa. Dispel magic can dispel a power, detect psionics can sense magical auras, lesser globe of invulnerability stops low level powers, spells can't be cast in a cast in a null psionics field, and so on and so forth. Furthermore, Power Resistance and Spell Resistance are just two words for exactly the same thing. Remember that the psion can only spend a number of power points equal to his manifester level. A 3rd level psion can only spend 3 power points on each power. He can manifest a 1st level power (1pp) and augment it with two additional power points. He can manifest a 2nd level power (3pp), but can't augment it yet. He can apply metapsionic Extend Power (+2pp) to a 1st level power (1pp), but not to 2nd level powers. Expending psionic focus only works for one thing at a time. All metapsionic feats require focus. This makes it impossible to use two metapsionic feats on a single manifestation of a power. The Psicrystal Containment feat gets around this by letting the psion use his psicrystals psionic focus, but then it's still impossible to apply three metapsi feats at once. Feats that require you to maintain focus work continuously, and all work at together, until you expend focus. If the psion has Speed Of Thought and Up The Walls, then he can run forty feet up a wall as a move action (but no further, that's a limit of the feat not of focus). You can only be focused, or unfocused. You can't be quintuple focused or anything like that. Each character, essentially, has only one psionic focus. However, there is the Psicrystal Containment feat I mentioned ealier, which allows you to expend your psicrystal's focus instead of your own.
The_Mess 01-08-08, 10:41 PM	The FAQ at the top of the forum includes a DM's guide to psionics.
InkBlot 01-08-08, 10:53 PM	Actually, the Guide (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=486266) is in the Master Index (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=289046) (which also at the top near the FAQ).
GuardianLurker 01-08-08, 11:59 PM	Since you haven't said whether this is psionics-only, or if you already have a primary healer (like the cleric), a caution about non-HP healing is in order. Adverse conditions (blindness, stun, paralysis, etc.) are much harder to deal with in a psionics-only setting as the powers are either higher level (most frequently) or even absent. In other cases, the fact that psionic healing usually involves absorbing the condition, and then healing it, makes certain situations very hard to deal with. Also be aware that the psionic equivalents of raise/resurrection are much more problematic. Psionic Revivify can only be used within rounds, and your only other alternatives are Bend Reality and Reality Revision.
AntiDjinn 01-09-08, 12:47 AM	You should have relatively few problems with the psychic warrior. The class is fairly balanced. At low levels, the PsW is behind the damage curve compared to a fighter, but soon catches up. The lower BAB means more blows miss, but feats and powers soon boost damage to make the shots that hit count for more. For low level PsW's the limiting factor is power points. At higher levels the limiting factor is actions; the character may have plenty of points and many good buffs to choose from, but simply lack the time get them all up before he is in melee. A Psychic Warrior without any buffs up fares in combat about as well as a Cleric without spells or a Monk with only one good save. With buffs in place a PsW can actually perform above his level for brief periods. One thing that was noted in 3.0 and continues to be true now is that if you take the level of encounter that a fully pumped psychic warrior can barely handle and plan on that as your typical encounter, then you will probably kill the character. If the CR of encounters is such that the PsW needs to have all his best powers active and needs to be focused, then sooner or later one of those encounters is going to go down when he isn't ready and he will get toasted. Don't plan encounters based on the buffs you expect him to have up, basically forcing him to use his powers when you see fit. Plan on encounters appropriate for his character level and let him decide how to manage his resources. I am playing a Psychic Warrior now (level 9, half-giant) and while I don't always have the highest damage output (two fighters in the party are optimized for pain) I have provided scouting with my psicrystal, have saved the party from an ambush with Detect Hostile Intent, and have prevented a total party wipeout with Damp Power.
DracoPhoenix 01-09-08, 07:25 AM	Yeah, the FAQ's your best starting point. Other than that, the most common mistake I've heard about is people trying to blow all their pp in one power. As opposed to the stated limit of the maximum pp you can use on one power is equal to your Manifester level.
mato_hibiki 01-09-08, 09:12 AM	Also, be leery of the awesome combo that is power attack + leap attack + deep impact. It is literally ouch time when you're on the wrong end of that. It doesn't sound like much at first, I know, but it can result in some disgusting amounts of pain when a barb leaps past the main tank to twak your BBEG spellcaster, KOing him in round one of combat. Add in a psi crystal, psi crystal containment, and greater psionic weapon... Well, one BBEG turned into a DEAD small harmless corpse. Now sometimes, sometimes a BBEG caster has a contingent teleport ready incase a barb looks at him funny... Or smiles.
Vharuck 01-09-08, 01:42 PM	Don't forget to check the errata.
InkBlot 01-09-08, 02:33 PM	Yes, the errata is important. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) It's especially important for the powers hammer and expansion.
CryoSilver 01-09-08, 03:33 PM	Since you haven't said whether this is psionics-only... It's not. The party would be a cleric, rogue, psywar and psion, I think.
GuardianLurker 01-09-08, 10:35 PM	Well, in that case, the healing won't be much of an issue. The only little gotcha that I can think of (because the FAQ and the Problematic Powers thread cover most of the rest) is to be cautious about Energy Resistance. More specifically, if you're used to using it to tighten a combat (say you've got a lightning-happy sorcerer, and the BBEG has ER(lightning)), and you've got experienced/aware players, you won't be able to. As a matter of fact, if you've got a MIN/MAXer, expect the Sonic type to come into play a LOT.
CryoSilver 01-11-08, 02:25 PM	So, enforce power point expenditure limits and be cautious about depending on energy resistance. I read the errata. Any other helpful hints before the game on Sunday?
Lycanthromancer 01-11-08, 04:36 PM	Have fun?
CryoSilver 01-11-08, 06:16 PM	Good advice; I was planning on whacking my groin with a hammer before the game, and then putting tacks on my keyboard, but you got me to change my mind, and now I'm going to have fun :P
Lycanthromancer 01-12-08, 11:05 AM	Glad I intervened, then. Basically, psionics is very much like magic, except its problems are less pronounced and far less damaging to a campaign, generally speaking.