Control Body: What exactly can you do? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Control Body: What exactly can you do? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ReaderOfPosts
02-05-08, 12:26 PM I was looking at control body, and I found the power vague. It left me with a lot of questions, which follow.
1) Do you get a full round action with the controlled body (aka does it act normally)
2) Which abilities can you use from the form: i.e. if a kineticist elocater takes control of himself, does he get benefit of oppurtunistic strike? Can he take an extra 5 ft step? If you control a rogue, do you get his sneak attack? The special abilities that are "function of just it's bodily movements" seems kind of vague
3) Does the int bonus to AC replace dex, or is it an unnamed bonus that is not effected by things such as being flatfooted, max dex on armor, etc.

4) Are there any official answers to these questions/ strongly supported by RAW answers, or is just a judgement call on the part of whoever makes the ruling.
The_Mess
02-05-08, 01:01 PM I was looking at control body, and I found the power vague. It left me with a lot of questions, which follow.
1) Do you get a full round action with the controlled body (aka does it act normally)

Since the rules don't say otherwise, yes. All you can do is concentrate, so the controlled body takes actions at your point in initiative.

2) Which abilities can you use from the form: i.e. if a kineticist elocater takes control of himself, does he get benefit of oppurtunistic strike? Can he take an extra 5 ft step? If you control a rogue, do you get his sneak attack? The special abilities that are "function of just it's bodily movements" seems kind of vague

It is a bit vague, and the answer will depend on your DM's interpretations. For me, I'd say no. For example, the rogue's sneak attack doesn't come from it's body having better movements than anyone else, but because he knows how to put the blade in just right. It's a mental ability rogues have, not a physical one.

3) Does the int bonus to AC replace dex, or is it an unnamed bonus that is not effected by things such as being flatfooted, max dex on armor, etc.

I won't pretend I have a RAW answer to this one.
Bacris
02-05-08, 01:31 PM The subject gains no benefit to Armor Class from its Dexterity, but it does gain a bonus to its AC equal to your Intelligence bonus.

It loses any appropriate Dex bonus and gains an unnamed bonus equal to your Int. There is no indication Max Dex / flat-footed apply / etc apply, so they don't.
DracoPhoenix
02-05-08, 04:01 PM Just don't forget the trick for when the powers about to expire:

Control Bladder. (This is the kid friendly version)
Slagger the Chuul
02-06-08, 02:11 AM 2) Which abilities can you use from the form: i.e. if a kineticist elocater takes control of himself, does he get benefit of oppurtunistic strike? Can he take an extra 5 ft step? If you control a rogue, do you get his sneak attack? The special abilities that are "function of just it's bodily movements" seems kind of vague

If you're controlling yourself, you would definitely have access to all your own abilities. For anyone else, I'd say it's limited by that whole "bodily movements" element.

The real question in that regard is which abilities are relevant. In this respect, I allow those actions which you could make the target perform if you were physically manipulating them.
CrimsonDeath
02-06-08, 06:10 PM Since the rules don't say otherwise, yes. All you can do is concentrate, so the controlled body takes actions at your point in initiative.

That's not quite accurate. Concentrating on a power is a standard action; if you're not controlling yourself, you still have a move action left.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple
02-06-08, 06:15 PM It is a bit vague, and the answer will depend on your DM's interpretations. For me, I'd say no. For example, the rogue's sneak attack doesn't come from it's body having better movements than anyone else, but because he knows how to put the blade in just right. It's a mental ability rogues have, not a physical one.
By this ruling it would seem that if you yourself were a Rogue, any body you control would Sneak Attack where appropriate, though. Something about taking control of the melee beatstick of the party who's already dishing out loads of damage and adding some sneak attack damage on top of that just doesn't seem quite right.

I'd be more inclined to think of it as kinda like those remote-controlled rats MIT's developed in which they've implanted electronics into their little rodent brains that give them an impulse to do something without defining the specifics in terms of each electrical impulse sent to the rest of the body. As such, a controlled Rogue would get the impulse to attack somebody, and would then do it in the manner that their body and lower brain are accustomed to doing it.
ReaderOfPosts
02-06-08, 06:27 PM I'm trying to think what of note you can do with mental move actions (regaining psionic focus with psionic meditation, and making an extra set of spot and listen checks are the only things that come to mind).

Another question (though I suspect that it is just flat out not clear): can you forfeit control without stopping concentration: i.e. can you let the wizard cast a spell or talk.

It's a wonderful, vague power. Unless you actively make them helpless, monks retain their wisdom bonus to AC (since that, by RAW, is only lost when immobile or helpless). Do creatures with uncanny dodge keep their dex bonus?
Slagger the Chuul
02-07-08, 12:07 AM By this ruling it would seem that if you yourself were a Rogue, any body you control would Sneak Attack where appropriate, though. Something about taking control of the melee beatstick of the party who's already dishing out loads of damage and adding some sneak attack damage on top of that just doesn't seem quite right.

You don't really have to worry about that when there're lines like this (bolding mine).

You cannot force the subject to manifest powers, cast spells, or use any special ability that is not a function of just its body movements.

By this line, any special abilities have to be a function of just the target's body movements. You can't apply abilities based on your own talents.
CrimsonDeath
02-07-08, 12:33 AM By this ruling it would seem that if you yourself were a Rogue, any body you control would Sneak Attack where appropriate, though. Something about taking control of the melee beatstick of the party who's already dishing out loads of damage and adding some sneak attack damage on top of that just doesn't seem quite right.

Note, however, that said melee beatstick will be using your BAB instead of his BAB, your Intelligence instead of his Strength, and none of his own feats. He'd probably do more damage on his own.

I'd be more inclined to think of it as kinda like those remote-controlled rats MIT's developed in which they've implanted electronics into their little rodent brains that give them an impulse to do something without defining the specifics in terms of each electrical impulse sent to the rest of the body. As such, a controlled Rogue would get the impulse to attack somebody, and would then do it in the manner that their body and lower brain are accustomed to doing it.
That's how Dominate works. Control Body is more like a marionette.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ReaderOfPosts 02-05-08, 12:26 PM	I was looking at control body, and I found the power vague. It left me with a lot of questions, which follow. 1) Do you get a full round action with the controlled body (aka does it act normally) 2) Which abilities can you use from the form: i.e. if a kineticist elocater takes control of himself, does he get benefit of oppurtunistic strike? Can he take an extra 5 ft step? If you control a rogue, do you get his sneak attack? The special abilities that are "function of just it's bodily movements" seems kind of vague 3) Does the int bonus to AC replace dex, or is it an unnamed bonus that is not effected by things such as being flatfooted, max dex on armor, etc. 4) Are there any official answers to these questions/ strongly supported by RAW answers, or is just a judgement call on the part of whoever makes the ruling.
The_Mess 02-05-08, 01:01 PM	I was looking at control body, and I found the power vague. It left me with a lot of questions, which follow. 1) Do you get a full round action with the controlled body (aka does it act normally) Since the rules don't say otherwise, yes. All you can do is concentrate, so the controlled body takes actions at your point in initiative. 2) Which abilities can you use from the form: i.e. if a kineticist elocater takes control of himself, does he get benefit of oppurtunistic strike? Can he take an extra 5 ft step? If you control a rogue, do you get his sneak attack? The special abilities that are "function of just it's bodily movements" seems kind of vague It is a bit vague, and the answer will depend on your DM's interpretations. For me, I'd say no. For example, the rogue's sneak attack doesn't come from it's body having better movements than anyone else, but because he knows how to put the blade in just right. It's a mental ability rogues have, not a physical one. 3) Does the int bonus to AC replace dex, or is it an unnamed bonus that is not effected by things such as being flatfooted, max dex on armor, etc. I won't pretend I have a RAW answer to this one.
Bacris 02-05-08, 01:31 PM	The subject gains no benefit to Armor Class from its Dexterity, but it does gain a bonus to its AC equal to your Intelligence bonus. It loses any appropriate Dex bonus and gains an unnamed bonus equal to your Int. There is no indication Max Dex / flat-footed apply / etc apply, so they don't.
DracoPhoenix 02-05-08, 04:01 PM	Just don't forget the trick for when the powers about to expire: Control Bladder. (This is the kid friendly version)
Slagger the Chuul 02-06-08, 02:11 AM	2) Which abilities can you use from the form: i.e. if a kineticist elocater takes control of himself, does he get benefit of oppurtunistic strike? Can he take an extra 5 ft step? If you control a rogue, do you get his sneak attack? The special abilities that are "function of just it's bodily movements" seems kind of vague If you're controlling yourself, you would definitely have access to all your own abilities. For anyone else, I'd say it's limited by that whole "bodily movements" element. The real question in that regard is which abilities are relevant. In this respect, I allow those actions which you could make the target perform if you were physically manipulating them.
CrimsonDeath 02-06-08, 06:10 PM	Since the rules don't say otherwise, yes. All you can do is concentrate, so the controlled body takes actions at your point in initiative. That's not quite accurate. Concentrating on a power is a standard action; if you're not controlling yourself, you still have a move action left.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 02-06-08, 06:15 PM	It is a bit vague, and the answer will depend on your DM's interpretations. For me, I'd say no. For example, the rogue's sneak attack doesn't come from it's body having better movements than anyone else, but because he knows how to put the blade in just right. It's a mental ability rogues have, not a physical one. By this ruling it would seem that if you yourself were a Rogue, any body you control would Sneak Attack where appropriate, though. Something about taking control of the melee beatstick of the party who's already dishing out loads of damage and adding some sneak attack damage on top of that just doesn't seem quite right. I'd be more inclined to think of it as kinda like those remote-controlled rats MIT's developed in which they've implanted electronics into their little rodent brains that give them an impulse to do something without defining the specifics in terms of each electrical impulse sent to the rest of the body. As such, a controlled Rogue would get the impulse to attack somebody, and would then do it in the manner that their body and lower brain are accustomed to doing it.
ReaderOfPosts 02-06-08, 06:27 PM	I'm trying to think what of note you can do with mental move actions (regaining psionic focus with psionic meditation, and making an extra set of spot and listen checks are the only things that come to mind). Another question (though I suspect that it is just flat out not clear): can you forfeit control without stopping concentration: i.e. can you let the wizard cast a spell or talk. It's a wonderful, vague power. Unless you actively make them helpless, monks retain their wisdom bonus to AC (since that, by RAW, is only lost when immobile or helpless). Do creatures with uncanny dodge keep their dex bonus?
Slagger the Chuul 02-07-08, 12:07 AM	By this ruling it would seem that if you yourself were a Rogue, any body you control would Sneak Attack where appropriate, though. Something about taking control of the melee beatstick of the party who's already dishing out loads of damage and adding some sneak attack damage on top of that just doesn't seem quite right. You don't really have to worry about that when there're lines like this (bolding mine). You cannot force the subject to manifest powers, cast spells, or use any special ability that is not a function of just its body movements. By this line, any special abilities have to be a function of just the target's body movements. You can't apply abilities based on your own talents.
CrimsonDeath 02-07-08, 12:33 AM	By this ruling it would seem that if you yourself were a Rogue, any body you control would Sneak Attack where appropriate, though. Something about taking control of the melee beatstick of the party who's already dishing out loads of damage and adding some sneak attack damage on top of that just doesn't seem quite right. Note, however, that said melee beatstick will be using your BAB instead of his BAB, your Intelligence instead of his Strength, and none of his own feats. He'd probably do more damage on his own. I'd be more inclined to think of it as kinda like those remote-controlled rats MIT's developed in which they've implanted electronics into their little rodent brains that give them an impulse to do something without defining the specifics in terms of each electrical impulse sent to the rest of the body. As such, a controlled Rogue would get the impulse to attack somebody, and would then do it in the manner that their body and lower brain are accustomed to doing it. That's how Dominate works. Control Body is more like a marionette.