| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Cravin02-29-08, 02:25 AM | On page 58 of Complete Psionics the feat "Skin of the construct" at one point says "This construct once absorbed into your body, does not coutn against your limit of Astral Constructs crafted (IN MOST CASES YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE ASTRAL CONSTRUCT CRAFTED AT A TIME) " However, The Astral Construct Power on Page 77 of the Expanded Psionics Handbook says nothing about a limit of any sort. Nor am I able (I am still searching) to find anything in the book that says otherwise. Is the Cpsi Incorrect? Was this a mistake? |
| runestar02-29-08, 02:28 AM | There is a tiny blurb in the front of the book which revises astral construct so that you can only have 1 at any 1 time. And here, you had been thinking that errata had been released (it is next up, with ToB). Though I can't see how errata can redeem it, short of a complete overhaul.:P |
| AntiDjinn02-29-08, 02:30 AM | Yes, CPsi was a mistake. The errata appears in the powers section. Basically, they printed the one at a time version as a new power, replacing the old one. |
| InkBlot02-29-08, 02:30 AM | I feel kind of dirty for perpetuating the book's evil, but look on page 79 of Complete Psionics. It nerfed astral construct to one construct at a time. |
| InkBlot02-29-08, 02:31 AM | And here, you had been thinking that errata had been released (it is next up, with ToB). Though I can't see how errata can redeem it, short of a complete overhaul.:P It they're actually going to fix Complete Psionic with errata, then I can see why there hasn't been any new errata released in a while! |
| Cravin02-29-08, 02:54 AM | when you guys play, do you follow this rule? As a DM I will completley and utterly disregard it. As A matter of fact, what were we talking about again? |
| InkBlot02-29-08, 03:13 AM | I ignore the astral construct nerf. In fact, I can't recall ever hearing of anybody who has used it. |
| Tempest Stormwind02-29-08, 03:19 AM | when you guys play, do you follow this rule? As a DM I will completley and utterly disregard it. Most people ignore it. I suspect the main reason it's there is to make the Ectopic Adept a bit more interesting -- instead of, you know, actually making it interesting on its own. Bruce had said that the problems he found came from wilders calling constructs from lower levels. He addressed it by saying "only one at a time". This is a sort of mindbreaker that makes Zen koans actually appear sensical. So, either he's the Buddha incarnate, or the move really is quite stupid, and worth ignoring. This is covered, somewhat, in the FAQ at the top of the forum. |
| CrimsonDeath02-29-08, 03:36 AM | Bruce had said that the problems he found came from wilders calling constructs from lower levels. He addressed it by saying "only one at a time". This is a sort of mindbreaker that makes Zen koans actually appear sensical. So, either he's the Buddha incarnate, or the move really is quite stupid, and worth ignoring. Note that this nerf predates the Malconvoker prestiege class from Complete Scoundrel, so apparently there's no problem with spellcasters having absurd numbers of excessively powerful summoned creatures. Only manifesters. |
| Cravin02-29-08, 03:56 AM | I ignore the astral construct nerf. In fact, I can't recall ever hearing of anybody who has used it. Most people ignore it. I suspect the main reason it's there is to make the Ectopic Adept a bit more interesting -- instead of, you know, actually making it interesting on its own. Bruce had said that the problems he found came from wilders calling constructs from lower levels. He addressed it by saying "only one at a time". This is a sort of mindbreaker that makes Zen koans actually appear sensical. So, either he's the Buddha incarnate, or the move really is quite stupid, and worth ignoring. This is covered, somewhat, in the FAQ at the top of the forum. Note that this nerf predates the Malconvoker prestiege class from Complete Scoundrel, so apparently there's no problem with spellcasters having absurd numbers of excessively powerful summoned creatures. Only manifesters. I really have no idea what you guys are talking about. What nerf. The Astral construct was never limited. That would be idiotic. Besides I would have heard about this before, clearly you are all just making this up, or were lied to by some fool. Hint hint, wink wink |
| Fatalis_90202-29-08, 06:39 AM | We were LIED TO by Complete Psionic. It came to us offering official psionics support in the form of a hardback book, and what do we get? Unnecessary eratta, feats that don't work, crap-tastic new powers and PrCs, almost no support for the original classes, and less material than any other Complete ever released. Oh sure, there were some gems, like the Ardent, the Soulknife PrCs, and a couple of nice new powers, but overall, the book was crap. It LIED TO ME!!! |
| runestar02-29-08, 08:49 AM | I think the rationale given was that multiple astral constructs might bog down the game. Though personally, this is an issue I feel should be resolved individually in each game (since some people might be adept at running large parties, so multiple summons are not as much an issue for them compared to others). And ironic that a prc lets you overcome this limit...:rolleyes: |
| aotrscommander02-29-08, 08:54 AM | Apparently, after Champion and ToB (hurray!) Comp Psi is next on the Errata list. So maybe they'll fix it. (Of course the errata will probablt be larger than the actual book, but you never know!) |
| The_Mess02-29-08, 11:27 AM | There's a cue of books to errata? Yeesh! They need to assign more people to that job. |
| InkBlot02-29-08, 12:40 PM | Apparently, after Champion and ToB (hurray!) Comp Psi is next on the Errata list. So maybe they'll fix it. (Of course the errata will probablt be larger than the actual book, but you never know!) On the one hand, according to that schedule we won't get ComPsi errata until 4e is already out, so I wouldn't expect them to actually go through with it. On the other hand, they do seem interested in polishing off this edition before putting out the next one (evidenced by the Rules Compendium), and they're not completely evil. |
| CrimsonDeath02-29-08, 01:56 PM | I think the rationale given was that multiple astral constructs might bog down the game. Which still doesn't explain the Malconvoker, since a summoned creature has as many actions as an astral construct. |
| larry_the_titan02-29-08, 02:25 PM | I think the rationale given was that multiple astral constructs might bog down the game. Sounds a little unbalanced logic there because I have never heard of anyone not being able to just summon another monster. Astral Constructs should of only had the same limits you have when summoning monsters and there would never of been an issue. |
| Zappy02-29-08, 02:38 PM | Wow I never knew the one at a time thing was a nerf. I was thinking about it and I'm not sure how I feel. Lets set up a party of hypothetical first level crazy nova summon guys to see the maxes. Assume non psionic races and an 18 in primary stat. I'll just use Core and Psion to make it easy, but if there's a non core that fits please add it! Our first level Psion would have 4 points. Now if we eliminate the one at a time rule that's 4 constructs running around. Our first level Cleric could have Monster Summon 1 as his regular spell, but I couldn't find it on any domain list so one summoned monster running around. Our first level Druid could have two Summon Natures Ally. That's 2 animals running around. Our first level Sorcerer gets 4 1st level spells. That's 4 Summoned Monster's Running around. Our first level Wizard gets 2 first level spells. That's 2 Summoned Monster's running around. Looking at the specifics it's clear that in the extreme the Psion is ahead of everyone except the Sorcerer who ties him. Spontaneous manifesting doesn't effect this balance discussion since Sorcs have it too. Looking at the evidence though my gut tells me that the one at a time rule isn't outrageous. Perhaps if they had limited it to 1 per level of construct it would be better. |
| AntiDjinn02-29-08, 02:58 PM | Under the XPH rules a first level psion could not normally have more than 1 construct on the table at once. It takes him 1 round to manifest and the resulting construct only lasts 1 round, so by the time he gets construct #2 on the table, #1 is already dissolving back to ectoplasm. 4 power points simply means he can have 1 construct on 4 separate rounds. The only way to have two out at once at 1st level is to use Overchannel (take the damage or expend focus for Talented, if you have that). Boost your ML by 1 and your construct stays for 2 rounds (1 round per ML) allowing you time to manifest the power again and get two on the table. Since you won't be taking an action to refocus, you will simply take the d8 of damage is you Overchannel the second. |
| Ecalsneerg02-29-08, 03:04 PM | I think the rationale given was that multiple astral constructs might bog down the game. Though personally, this is an issue I feel should be resolved individually in each game (since some people might be adept at running large parties, so multiple summons are not as much an issue for them compared to others). And ironic that a prc lets you overcome this limit...:rolleyes: Even more ironic a wizard can get five with one spell |
| RadicalTaoist02-29-08, 03:28 PM | http://pics.livejournal.com/twoflower/pic/0002dy68 Seriously, salvage the Ardent and Lurk from that book, and never look back. Stupid pointless nerfs. |
| Bukowski02-29-08, 03:37 PM | Suggested CPsi Errata Can we spare synads from that errata as well? They're pretty much the only thing other than Ardents and Lurks in my CPsi that gets used. (And make them OGL while we're at it, so third parties can expand on their concept.) |
| Slagger the Chuul02-29-08, 03:40 PM | Bruce had said that the problems he found came from wilders calling constructs from lower levels. He addressed it by saying "only one at a time". This is a sort of mindbreaker that makes Zen koans actually appear sensical. So, either he's the Buddha incarnate, or the move really is quite stupid, and worth ignoring. From what I recall of this, the problem was with having multiple constructs of a level that the wilder would normally be too low to access (without wild surge). If you think that multiple higher-powered constructs might be a problem, I can see why it would be hard to find a nice, clean solution. |
| larry_the_titan02-29-08, 03:49 PM | Under the XPH rules a first level psion could not normally have more than 1 construct on the table at once. It takes him 1 round to manifest and the resulting construct only lasts 1 round, so by the time he gets construct #2 on the table, #1 is already dissolving back to ectoplasm. 4 power points simply means he can have 1 construct on 4 separate rounds. Most summons are like that at first level. Maybe he should of checked 4th level. He also for got the extra points you get from a high casting stat and bonus spells and Domain slots. The only way to have two out at once at 1st level is to use Overchannel (take the damage or expend focus for Talented, if you have that). Boost your ML by 1 and your construct stays for 2 rounds (1 round per ML) allowing you time to manifest the power again and get two on the table. Since you won't be taking an action to refocus, you will simply take the d8 of damage is you Overchannel the second. When I get home I will check but I don't think Overchannel actually raises your manifester limit which is what determines how long they last. But I may be wrong one way or another. |
| Zappy02-29-08, 03:54 PM | Under the XPH rules a first level psion could not normally have more than 1 construct on the table at once. It takes him 1 round to manifest and the resulting construct only lasts 1 round, so by the time he gets construct #2 on the table, #1 is already dissolving back to ectoplasm. 4 power points simply means he can have 1 construct on 4 separate rounds. D'oh! Didn't check the duration! That blows my whole thought process away. I guess it really wouldn't be a problem till later, When things would get heinous for the other classes anyway. Looks like my mind just got changed and I agree that the 1 at a time rule is stupid. |
| RadicalTaoist02-29-08, 05:51 PM | Can we spare synads from that errata as well? They're pretty much the only thing other than Ardents and Lurks in my CPsi that gets used. (And make them OGL while we're at it, so third parties can expand on their concept.) ...Permitted. |
| calronmoonflower02-29-08, 06:25 PM | http://pics.livejournal.com/twoflower/pic/0002dy68 Seriously, salvage the Ardent and Lurk from that book, and never look back. Stupid pointless nerfs. Hey now, what about the Soulknife improvements. |
| Master_Vega02-29-08, 06:38 PM | http://pics.livejournal.com/twoflower/pic/0002dy68 Seriously, salvage the Ardent and Lurk from that book, and never look back. Stupid pointless nerfs. Agreed. Complete Psionic is probably the worst Complete book in the line... In fact, they should make a new line for CPsi: the Incomplete series... Hmm, that'd actually be an interesting forums project. :P |
| jbsaff02-29-08, 07:22 PM | Do you mean a "Here's What's Incomplete" series or a "Completing the Incomplete" series? Because I think that Dreamscarred Press is doing the latter. ;) |
| Slagger the Chuul02-29-08, 11:05 PM | In fact, they should make a new line for CPsi: the Incomplete series... Hmm, that'd actually be an interesting forums project. :P You could save money by releasing it with only half a cover. :) |
| Cravin02-29-08, 11:44 PM | This is realy off topic, but I was playing my game a little while ago, and I rolled a craft roll of 33 to make a perfect looking Mudkips. The party wizard then Prestidigitationed it to be the proper colors. It was the best Astral Mudkips ever. http://www.mudkips.nl/mudkip1.jpg |
| RadicalTaoist03-01-08, 10:23 AM | I'm sorry, but ambassadors from /b/ should go to the Motivators thread (the local Anonymous embassy). |
| Master_Vega03-01-08, 11:40 AM | Do you mean a "Here's What's Incomplete" series or a "Completing the Incomplete" series? Because I think that Dreamscarred Press is doing the latter. ;) I was more focusing on "Here's what's incomplete and why", and possibly having solutions or whatever from participants. Of course, the problem with this is that there will be several decent books petitioned by posters as incomplete, and some fairly bad ones defended by the few who have managed to use one whole page out of the book. :P We could also top it off with wonderful titles like: "The Complete Crap" and "The Complete Waste of Time." :D [/offtopic] PM me if you want to talk about this more. |
| InkBlot03-01-08, 06:28 PM | This is realy off topic, but I was playing my game a little while ago, and I rolled a craft roll of 33 to make a perfect looking Mudkips. The party wizard then Prestidigitationed it to be the proper colors. You shouldn't need the Wizard to color it for you. With a high enough check the construct is identical except for a "distinctive astral glimmer." It wouldn't be identical if it wasn't the same color. The astral glimmer just means that it's shiny. Also, prestidigitation can only affect objects. glim·mer (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/glimmer) Pronunciation: \ˈgli-mər\ Function: intransitive verb Inflected Form(s): glim·mered; glim·mer·ing \ˈglim-riŋ, ˈgli-mə-\ Etymology: Middle English glimeren; akin to Old English glǣm gleam Date: 15th century 1 a: to shine faintly or unsteadily b: to give off a subdued unsteady reflection 2: to appear indistinctly with a faintly luminous quality |