Craft psionic construct [Archive] - Wizards Community

Craft psionic construct [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RedRory
06-10-07, 06:39 PM Hello all, I was just wondering if anyone has any ideas how I should handle this:

One of my players is a 6th level psion shaper that has just taken the Craft Psionic Construct feat. Is it not possible to use that feat to craft a permanent astral construct? If so should the cost simply be Spell level x Caster level x 2000 x4? (as given by the DMG for continuos items). So if the psion wished to create a permanent 1st level construct it would 1x1x2000x4 (so 8000). Or if it was a 3rd level construct 1x5x2000x4 (40,000)? Now this approach doesn't really make sense given a Flesh Golem only costs 10,500 + 780 xp and is far more potent.

Are there any guidelines on construct creation? I can't seem to find any beyond the descriptions given in monster entries and the feat description itself? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Jaid
06-10-07, 08:53 PM i would offer to let him trade in the feat, if you're sticking purely with RAW. the only thing RAW lets you do with that feat, iirc, is to make psion-killers.

that being said, if you were going to allow the permanent creation of astral constructs, i would suggest you look at the effigy rules for some guidelines on costs.
Racinante
06-10-07, 09:37 PM Hello all, I was just wondering if anyone has any ideas how I should handle this:

One of my players is a 6th level psion shaper that has just taken the Craft Psionic Construct feat. Is it not possible to use that feat to craft a permanent astral construct? If so should the cost simply be Spell level x Caster level x 2000 x4? (as given by the DMG for continuos items). So if the psion wished to create a permanent 1st level construct it would 1x1x2000x4 (so 8000). Or if it was a 3rd level construct 1x5x2000x4 (40,000)? Now this approach doesn't really make sense given a Flesh Golem only costs 10,500 + 780 xp and is far more potent.

Are there any guidelines on construct creation? I can't seem to find any beyond the descriptions given in monster entries and the feat description itself? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Actually, he needs Craft Universal Item because he is creating a permanent item based on a spell.

Use the characteristics of the golems to determine how to price an appropriate psionic construct. The effigies tend to be priced very low compared to the golems, so be careful in using those guidelines.
InkBlot
06-11-07, 03:35 AM Craft Construct works just fine. He's crafting a construct. That's what the feat is for. The term Astral Construct refers to two very different things -- a psionic power and a creature. He's not making a permanent Astral Construct the first level power, he's creating an Astral Construct the creature.

The rules from the DMG for pricing items are rubbish for anything that doesn't give a simple numerical bonus. If it isn't a +X item of Y, then don't use those guidelines.

There are two good ways to price items. One is to compare it to similar items which are already in the game. Obviously this has the drawback of only working if there actualy already is a similar item in the game. The other is to figure out at what level a character should be able to get this item. This works rather well, but depends much more on your personal judgement.

First, figure out what level a character should be before being able to buy a permanent Astral Construct. Then look up that level on the Character Wealth By Level chart on page 135 of your Dungeon Master's Guide. Take the GP amount listed for that level, and divide it by 2. The result is your GP cost for creating a permanent Astral Construct.

For example, if you thought a 6th level character would not be overpowered with a 1st level all-day Astral Construct, then you would price the all-day Astral Construct at 650gp. Crafting the construct would take 325gp worth of raw materials, cost 26xp, and take 1 day.

You could also go through a similar process, but using the level a character should be before being able to make the construct, instead of the level she should be before being able to buy it. In this case, you don't divide the wealth for that level at all. Using the above example again (6th level), the base cost of the construct would be 1300gp, and would take 650gp worth of material to craft. A 6th level psion could afford to craft it if she doesn't buy any other gear that level, or if she sells some of her old gear.

By the way, Tulpa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa#Tulpa) is another word for an astral construct. Calling these constructs Tulpas may be a way to infuse them with a little more flavor.
Racinante
06-11-07, 05:49 PM For ease of design, you may be better off going with the creation of Figures of Wondrous Power (Astral Construct). The advantages are that when the construct is killed, it reverts to a statue which can be retrieved and reused, usually after a set amount of time.

A golem/construct is destroyed permanently once it is reduced to 0 hit points, so investing all that time, money, and energy into creating a one shot pony probably is not the best use of your resources.

I won't get into the details of calculation*, but permanent astral constructs without the boost construct feat should have a gp market price of approximately:

I: 250-1,000
II: 1,000-3,000
III: 15,000-17,000
IV: 61,000-93,000
V: 148,000-180,000
VI: 270,000-302,000
VII: 342,000-398,000
VIII: 512,000-568,000
IX: 755,000-867,000

Figurines of 1 use per day:
Astral Construct 9 - 17 rounds per day, once per day. 55,080 gp.
Astral Construct 8 - 15 rounds per day, once per day. 43,200 gp.
Astral Construct 7 - 13 rounds per day, once per day. 32,760 gp.
Astral Construct 6 - 11 rounds per day, once per day. 23,760 gp.
Astral Construct 5 - 10 rounds per day, once per day. 18,000 gp (due to ML 10).
Astral Construct 4 - 10 rounds per day, once per day. 14,400 gp (due to ML 10).
Astral Construct 3 - 10 rounds per day, once per day. 10,800 gp (due to ML 10).
Astral Construct 2 - 10 rounds per day, once per day. 7,200 gp (due to ML 10).
Astral Construct 1 - 10 rounds per day, once per day. 3,600 gp (due to ML 10).

Figurines usable any number of times per day (I would require that once a figurine is used, it must remain inactive a number of rounds equal to its max duration in rounds):
Astral Construct 9 - 17 rounds each activation 275,400 gp.
Astral Construct 8 - 15 rounds each activation 216,000 gp.
Astral Construct 7 - 13 rounds each activation 163,800 gp.
Astral Construct 6 - 11 rounds each activation 118,800 gp.
Astral Construct 5 - 10 rounds each activation 90,000 gp (due to ML 10).
Astral Construct 4 - 10 rounds each activation 72,400 gp (due to ML 10).
Astral Construct 3 - 10 rounds each activation 54,000 gp (due to ML 10).
Astral Construct 2 - 10 rounds each activation 36,000 gp (due to ML 10).
Astral Construct 1 - 10 rounds each activation 18,000 gp (due to ML 10).

* My calculation process gives exact results for the Stone Golem, Greater Stone Golem, Psion Killer (with one caveat), Shield Guardian, and Homonculus. My method missed the Iron Golem by 7,000 gp (5%), the Flesh Golem by 3,500gp (18%), and was exactly twice the listed cost of the Clay Golem. (all excluding the additional costs for materials) The Colossi were also costed with average variances of approximately 10%. I'm still working to try to better refine the calculations, but I'm not sure consistent methodologies were used to create all of the craftable golems.

It may appear that the golems are overcosted compared to comparable figurines, but then again, a figurine cannot animate on its own. Also, a golem can be set a task that lasts pretty much forever. Who knows, maybe they were originally created to rough out a dungeon or cave system, mine ore, or make a mountain pass, then set as guardians once their usefulness is complete.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RedRory 06-10-07, 06:39 PM	Hello all, I was just wondering if anyone has any ideas how I should handle this: One of my players is a 6th level psion shaper that has just taken the Craft Psionic Construct feat. Is it not possible to use that feat to craft a permanent astral construct? If so should the cost simply be Spell level x Caster level x 2000 x4? (as given by the DMG for continuos items). So if the psion wished to create a permanent 1st level construct it would 1x1x2000x4 (so 8000). Or if it was a 3rd level construct 1x5x2000x4 (40,000)? Now this approach doesn't really make sense given a Flesh Golem only costs 10,500 + 780 xp and is far more potent. Are there any guidelines on construct creation? I can't seem to find any beyond the descriptions given in monster entries and the feat description itself? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Jaid 06-10-07, 08:53 PM	i would offer to let him trade in the feat, if you're sticking purely with RAW. the only thing RAW lets you do with that feat, iirc, is to make psion-killers. that being said, if you were going to allow the permanent creation of astral constructs, i would suggest you look at the effigy rules for some guidelines on costs.
Racinante 06-10-07, 09:37 PM	Hello all, I was just wondering if anyone has any ideas how I should handle this: One of my players is a 6th level psion shaper that has just taken the Craft Psionic Construct feat. Is it not possible to use that feat to craft a permanent astral construct? If so should the cost simply be Spell level x Caster level x 2000 x4? (as given by the DMG for continuos items). So if the psion wished to create a permanent 1st level construct it would 1x1x2000x4 (so 8000). Or if it was a 3rd level construct 1x5x2000x4 (40,000)? Now this approach doesn't really make sense given a Flesh Golem only costs 10,500 + 780 xp and is far more potent. Are there any guidelines on construct creation? I can't seem to find any beyond the descriptions given in monster entries and the feat description itself? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! Actually, he needs Craft Universal Item because he is creating a permanent item based on a spell. Use the characteristics of the golems to determine how to price an appropriate psionic construct. The effigies tend to be priced very low compared to the golems, so be careful in using those guidelines.
InkBlot 06-11-07, 03:35 AM	Craft Construct works just fine. He's crafting a construct. That's what the feat is for. The term Astral Construct refers to two very different things -- a psionic power and a creature. He's not making a permanent Astral Construct the first level power, he's creating an Astral Construct the creature. The rules from the DMG for pricing items are rubbish for anything that doesn't give a simple numerical bonus. If it isn't a +X item of Y, then don't use those guidelines. There are two good ways to price items. One is to compare it to similar items which are already in the game. Obviously this has the drawback of only working if there actualy already is a similar item in the game. The other is to figure out at what level a character should be able to get this item. This works rather well, but depends much more on your personal judgement. First, figure out what level a character should be before being able to buy a permanent Astral Construct. Then look up that level on the Character Wealth By Level chart on page 135 of your Dungeon Master's Guide. Take the GP amount listed for that level, and divide it by 2. The result is your GP cost for creating a permanent Astral Construct. For example, if you thought a 6th level character would not be overpowered with a 1st level all-day Astral Construct, then you would price the all-day Astral Construct at 650gp. Crafting the construct would take 325gp worth of raw materials, cost 26xp, and take 1 day. You could also go through a similar process, but using the level a character should be before being able to make the construct, instead of the level she should be before being able to buy it. In this case, you don't divide the wealth for that level at all. Using the above example again (6th level), the base cost of the construct would be 1300gp, and would take 650gp worth of material to craft. A 6th level psion could afford to craft it if she doesn't buy any other gear that level, or if she sells some of her old gear. By the way, Tulpa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa#Tulpa) is another word for an astral construct. Calling these constructs Tulpas may be a way to infuse them with a little more flavor.
Racinante 06-11-07, 05:49 PM	For ease of design, you may be better off going with the creation of Figures of Wondrous Power (Astral Construct). The advantages are that when the construct is killed, it reverts to a statue which can be retrieved and reused, usually after a set amount of time. A golem/construct is destroyed permanently once it is reduced to 0 hit points, so investing all that time, money, and energy into creating a one shot pony probably is not the best use of your resources. I won't get into the details of calculation, but permanent astral constructs without the boost construct feat should have a gp market price of approximately: I: 250-1,000 II: 1,000-3,000 III: 15,000-17,000 IV: 61,000-93,000 V: 148,000-180,000 VI: 270,000-302,000 VII: 342,000-398,000 VIII: 512,000-568,000 IX: 755,000-867,000 Figurines of 1 use per day: Astral Construct 9 - 17 rounds per day, once per day. 55,080 gp. Astral Construct 8 - 15 rounds per day, once per day. 43,200 gp. Astral Construct 7 - 13 rounds per day, once per day. 32,760 gp. Astral Construct 6 - 11 rounds per day, once per day. 23,760 gp. Astral Construct 5 - 10 rounds per day, once per day. 18,000 gp (due to ML 10). Astral Construct 4 - 10 rounds per day, once per day. 14,400 gp (due to ML 10). Astral Construct 3 - 10 rounds per day, once per day. 10,800 gp (due to ML 10). Astral Construct 2 - 10 rounds per day, once per day. 7,200 gp (due to ML 10). Astral Construct 1 - 10 rounds per day, once per day. 3,600 gp (due to ML 10). Figurines usable any number of times per day (I would require that once a figurine is used, it must remain inactive a number of rounds equal to its max duration in rounds): Astral Construct 9 - 17 rounds each activation 275,400 gp. Astral Construct 8 - 15 rounds each activation 216,000 gp. Astral Construct 7 - 13 rounds each activation 163,800 gp. Astral Construct 6 - 11 rounds each activation 118,800 gp. Astral Construct 5 - 10 rounds each activation 90,000 gp (due to ML 10). Astral Construct 4 - 10 rounds each activation 72,400 gp (due to ML 10). Astral Construct 3 - 10 rounds each activation 54,000 gp (due to ML 10). Astral Construct 2 - 10 rounds each activation 36,000 gp (due to ML 10). Astral Construct 1 - 10 rounds each activation 18,000 gp (due to ML 10). My calculation process gives exact results for the Stone Golem, Greater Stone Golem, Psion Killer (with one caveat), Shield Guardian, and Homonculus. My method missed the Iron Golem by 7,000 gp (5%), the Flesh Golem by 3,500gp (18%), and was exactly twice the listed cost of the Clay Golem. (all excluding the additional costs for materials) The Colossi were also costed with average variances of approximately 10%. I'm still working to try to better refine the calculations, but I'm not sure consistent methodologies were used to create all of the craftable golems. It may appear that the golems are overcosted compared to comparable figurines, but then again, a figurine cannot animate on its own. Also, a golem can be set a task that lasts pretty much forever. Who knows, maybe they were originally created to rough out a dungeon or cave system, mine ore, or make a mountain pass, then set as guardians once their usefulness is complete.