Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edea 11-01-07, 12:19 AM	Basically, the Erudite loses his ability to add powers known outside of what he'd get for leveling up as an Erudite if he ever has the same number of levels in another psionic class that he does in the Erudite class. So, an Erudite 8/Psion 8 (why the HELL you'd do that is beyond my comprehension, but just as an example) will no longer be able to use the Erudite's main class ability. That's not a big deal, there's virtually no reason to multiclass as an Erudite anyway, much less with another psionic class (just stay in Erudite :/). OK, but what about, as a different example, an Erudite 8/Slayer 8? Does the Erudite lose his ability to add new powers to his repertoire from power stones/etc. upon taking that 8th level of Slayer? In other words, do psionic prestige classes rob the Erudite of this ability if their levels ever match up? Would like to know what order to take PrCs in for my Archivist/Erudite gestalt for the next game coming up.
InkBlot 11-01-07, 01:01 AM	OK, but what about, as a different example, an Erudite 8/Slayer 8? Does the Erudite lose his ability to add new powers to his repertoire from power stones/etc. upon taking that 8th level of Slayer? In other words, do psionic prestige classes rob the Erudite of this ability if their levels ever match up? Would like to know what order to take PrCs in for my Archivist/Erudite gestalt for the next game coming up. Yes. An Erudite8/Slayer8 loses the ability to learn powers from power stones and other manifesters. However, this rule only exists to cover up a flaw in the Erudite's design. The flaw is that the cost to learn a new power is based on your Erudite level. If you gain the ability to manifest higher level powers without raising your Erudite level, then you get a major discount on the cost of learning new powers. If you fix this flaw, then you no longer need the special multiclassing rule. Common fixes are basing the XP cost on manifester level, or on power level. Using manifester level keeps the costs the same, while preventing anybody from getting an XP discount. Using power level makes lower level powers cheaper, as many think they should be, in addition to preventing XP discounts.
Edea 11-01-07, 01:20 AM	Frankly, I'm thinking about just rewriting the Erudite for myself entirely. Kinda wondering if the Psionics board would be receptive to critiquing it; if not, I still kinda have to get that houseruled with the DM (not thinking it's going to be much of a problem, but still), but if I can get a critique then it'll make it easier since I can use the comments from other users. Thanks for answering the question, Fwib said about the same thing (it's why Cerebremancer doesn't work so well for Wizard/Erudites). God, that's weird.
InkBlot 11-01-07, 08:27 AM	In my opinion, there isn't much about the Erudite which needs rewriting. It's signature ability to expand it's repertoire could use a houserule or two, and some clarification, but that's all. What were some of the changes you were planning on making?
Bacris 11-01-07, 10:04 AM	I played an erudite and the DM ruled the XP cost was based on the power level, rather than Erudite level. I don't have the book in front of me, but Slayer increases your manifester level as an erudite, rather than its own progression - what's the phrasing for that rule on adding additional powers known?
Edea 11-01-07, 10:54 AM	Pretty much going over all the copypasta errors/unusual rules (such as the aforementioned restriction to prestige classing) and getting rid of them, then seeing if there was anything else I wanted to change about it after I was finished. Well, Bacris, it says psionic classes, not necessarily manifesting classes. In fact, it seems even Soulknife would rob the character of the ability to use the Erudite's extra power-adding options. Kinda sad, tbqh.
Bacris 11-01-07, 11:02 AM	Ah, that rule. I'd blocked it out :P Yup, that'd apply to Erudite 8 / Slayer 8.
Ichor Spellka 11-01-07, 01:16 PM	If you re-wrote it, I'm sure others would give their opinions of your work, and helpful suggestions as well. I had it houseruled to be based on power level. Honestly, it being more difficult for a 20th level erudite to learn a first level power than it would be for a 1st level erudite is silly.
crizh 11-01-07, 02:01 PM	That rule is a classic example of the problem with Complete Psi. Why would gaining levels in another class make the Erudite's 'Repertoire' ability break? It isn't like you could take levels in Wilder and then use your one level of Erudite to learn a whole bunch more powers than a normal Wilder has. Any powers you learn with 'Repertoire' are Erudite powers and are manifested using your Erudite Manifester Level. You could use your Wilder PP's to fuel them but as your total number of PP's has been reduced by multi-classing in this way you gain nothing. The author appears to be assuming that 'Repertoire' is a cut price version of Psychic Chirurgy that would otherwise allow a Wilder19/Erudite1 to load himself up with every power in the book virtually for free. Firstly this is nonsense and exposes the author as someone who is merely employed to write stuff for Wizards. He/She clearly does not understand how Psionics works on a fundamental level and probably has never played one. He/She has no passion for the subject. People with a passion for the subject don't make mistakes like that or they catch them in playtesting long before they ever get printed. I refer you here to the third party material that it is difficult to avoid hearing mention of on this board. I mean it's just laughable. Imagine suggesting on the Magic board that Wizards should lose the ability to copy spells into their spell book if they have more levels in Sorceror than Wizard. After all that would let them cast all the spells in their spell book spontaneously.... :rolleyes: oh.. Secondly, what was secondly?.... Ah yes. Secondly its moronic. Even if the system did work like that you could take one level of Erudite at level 18, add every power in the book to your Wilder 'Reperoire' at minimal cost because your Erudite level is only one and then continue on your merry way into epic as the Wilder from hell.... You only lose the ability to add new powers when you 'gain' a level in another Psionic class. As the first 17 levels of Wilder were 'gained' before you acquire the 'Repertoire' ability they don't affect it until you 'gain' another one. To sum up. Shoddy. Just like the rest of Complete Psi. A fix to a problem that doesn't exist that wouldn't fix it even if it did. Nice.