Custom Psionic Ring [Archive] - Wizards Community

Custom Psionic Ring [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AlterFrom
02-05-08, 09:39 PM My DM has asked me to post on his behalf, because he doesn't feel like creating an account. :bored:

Anyways, we need a ring that "augments psionic powers" as he put it. It's going to be originally on an illithid we fight, then recoverable for the party (which will include at least 1 PsyWar and possibly a Psion to fight over it).

I'm thinking Practiced Manifester would be a good starting point, but would it be balanced to give that for a ring slot to a level 12ish character? Maybe just giving some free PP? I figured the Psionics board would be the best place for this. :D
AntiDjinn
02-05-08, 10:32 PM Augments as in adds points, reduces cost, or actually boosting ML?

Adding points is tricky: All points used to manifest a power must come from a single source. So an item that pays added points needs to use different mechanics.

Reducing costs is easy: Just make it a Torc of Power Preservation that takes up a ring slot instead of the throat slot. Or, since an illithid may have the ring on a tentacle, maybe it still uses the throat/amulet slot. Reducing cost also gets around the single point source rule since it is making the power cheaper to throw rather than feeding points into the manifestation.

To boost ML you could base it off Practiced Manifester, though adding up to +4 ML is quite a bit. Decide in advance if wearing the ring means you are considered to have the feat or if the feat is just required to craft the ring and it has its own defined effects. For example, could an ardent actually know more powers when wearing it than not? You could also base the item off Overchannel which is not a bad option since it forces the wearer to take some hurt to activate it. Making Wild Surge the base mechanic might also be an option, though PCs might not a appreciate getting dazed by their own item and it is doubtful an illithid would be carrying such a thing.

Also, given that it is found on an illithid, it could be as easily based off of an enhance psi-like ability feat.
calronmoonflower
02-06-08, 02:46 AM The Epic Level Handbook has rings of psionics (like rings of wizardry) that adds to your power point total.

If you figure out the progression you could make regular level versions of those.
Bacris
02-06-08, 10:43 AM Sounds akin to the Wild Surge class feature, but without the risk of enervation, yes?

If it was an "every power" sort of thing, the question then is - does it allow going over the wearer's ML? If so, I'd charge it above the cost of a Torc of Power Pres (40+k). If not, I'd charge the same as a Torc of Power Pres (36k).
AlterFrom
02-06-08, 12:26 PM I took a peek at the epic psionic rings, and the progression is +4 more PP each ring you go up.

So, starting at the ERP V, which grants +43 PP, we get:

ERP IV: 27 (16K gp)
ERP III: 13 (9K gp)
ERP II: 3 (4K gp)
ERP I: -5 (1Kgp) (:P)

We're hesitant to use the Torc of Preservation route, because even up to level 14 that's half the character's WBL. What about making it the ability to preserve points on a power X/day? Otherwise, the Ring of Psionics III looks decent, if maybe underpriced.
Bacris
02-06-08, 12:33 PM There's a charges-per-day version of the Torc of Power Preservation in the Magic Item Compendium, but I'm afraid I don't have the stats handy.
AlterFrom
02-06-08, 12:54 PM [1 Quick trip to mah buuk bukket later]

Hmm, the MIC ToPP looks good. I'll direct him to this thread and let him decide exactly what he wants the ring to do.

Thanks all! :D
AntiDjinn
02-06-08, 01:28 PM The MIC version is 5 times per day. It keeps the original version's unfortunate wording of "standard cost" which is undefined. The XPH talks about the base cost of a power, and a metapsionic cost, but doesn't define standard cost. Most here have interpreted "standard cost" to be the same as "base cost" which is the minimum to manifest a power before adding augmentation, metapsionics, or specials such as costs for Volatile Mind or Catapsi. If your DM takes this interpretation, then a Torc of Power Preservation lets you spend one extra point (though it technically still does not boost your ML by one). If your DM interprets "standard cost" to be what you would normally pay to manifest after all the math has been done, then the item only saves you a point. If the second interpretation is used, then there is definitely no reason to limit it to 5 uses per day.
RWFA
02-07-08, 10:44 PM OK, Hi Jack

I am the DM, but what i was hoping for was that the ring would have an effect like empower spell to existing powers. but if the user didn't have psionic powers, then it would allow the user to us the psionic powers of a mind flayer. My biggest problem is that i don't know enough about how psionics work, so i cant come up with a reasonable solution. :confused: I unfortunately don't know what these other things do so i realized i should come clear things up. Thanks for the help so far.
AntiDjinn
02-07-08, 11:16 PM That would be a very complex item, and hard to price if it has effect X when used by a manifester and Y when used by another being.

If the item is non-unique, then you generally start by writing up its crafting procedure: What feat is used to craft it, what specific powers, cost, level requirements, etc. Any character with the prereqs could make one of his own. If the item is unique, then things get easier: You just determine what you want it to do, and it is what it is with no need to balance the costs of how it was made. In that case, you only need to know the level of its crafter for purposes such as resisting Disjunction and such.

As a standard item, Empower to any power is going to be expensive. It has the Empower Power feat, simple enough. It also reduces the cost of manifesting the empowered power by two points (which is what makes the Empower free) so that is twice what a Torc of Power Preservation does. You don't mention a limit on uses per day, which can get pretty expensive. A Metamagic rod: Empower Spell is only usable 3 times per day, and has a limit on the level of spell affected based on the level of the rod. If this is any power, regardless of level or augmentation, and no limit on uses per day, then it is an item that only a paragon mind flayer or better is likely to have. You should probably limit it to once per round, just to avoid issues (Schism, Link Power, others).

As far as giving any non-psionic character the powers of an illithid, a normal illithid manifests as a 9th level telepath. The powers listed on p. 204 of the XPH are typical, but the DM actually gets to pick. No clue here on how to make this item, but you may be the case that the party psion will hand it off to the bard because he gets better use out of it.
Lycanthromancer
02-08-08, 12:25 AM An item like that would be far more like a psionic cohort than an actual item, even if it doesn't have mental ability scores of any kind.

My suggestion is to make it an intelligent item, and treat it as a cohort/artifact, rather than a simple magic item.
Scion of Coldshard
02-08-08, 12:36 AM It could be easier, and cheaper gp wise, to make the item intelligent and go from there.. easier in the sense of it being easier to do a writeup of, the actual in game use would likely be much more complicated to deal with ;)

If the item simply gave the character 2pp back after any manifestation of a power using the empower power feat that would be pretty simple and likely not all that costly.

If the item granted the use of the empower power feat that would be ok cost wise as well.

If it did both that would start increasing the costs by quite a bit ;)

I suppose you could go both ways with it though. Make the item intelligent but the intelligence is suppressed while the item is not worn. If the item is worn then the intelligence 'wakes up' after 1 minute of being worn by a character who is not holding psionic focus (this makes it bad to sleep with it on and it allows for only non-psionic characters to have to worry about the sleeping mind generally).

Whenever a psionic character wearing the ring manifests a power if the mind is still suppressed then they may expend their psionic focus to gain the benefits of the empower power feat, the normal pp cost must still be paid and the focus cost was paid during the use, effectively as normal.

If the mind awakens and the item is not being worn by an illithiad then the trouble begins. If the character can beat the ego score of the item then they can direct it to use its powers as the character sees fit. Every time the character tries to use a power it forces an ego check, and the amount of time of concentration it takes is one step greater than the time it would normally take to manifest the power (Swift/Immediate -> move, move -> standard, standard -> full-round, full-round -> 1 round, anything else add 1 stanard action; I would say it also provokes aoo's unless done defensively and the character takes a penalty equal to the ego check of half the damage dealt or 5 if done defensively). If the item takes over the character it will use the characters abilities and its own to the best of its power to get itself back into the hands of an illithiad.

At that point we are looking at an item which helps out manifesters in a nice little way, but not extreme, and has a darker side that other characters might try to take advantage of.. ultimately to their peril most likely.

Since I would basically consider the sleeping mind to be a curse on the object rather than a boon I would probably call it about 5k and then see just how crazy the players are feeling... and watch carefully to see if any psionic wearer goes without being psionically focused for more than a minute.. waking up the mind and forcing an ego check could be very interesting ;)
RWFA
02-08-08, 06:33 PM i like that last suggestion. it fits with what i want to do and adds a nice spin on it. i think it will start with a lower ego and then as it gets used more that increases. i dont want it to be wanting to be with an illithid, but i think that it will try to get in the hands of a more powerful being. Thanks for the help, i've been thinking about this scince new year began.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AlterFrom 02-05-08, 09:39 PM	My DM has asked me to post on his behalf, because he doesn't feel like creating an account. :bored: Anyways, we need a ring that "augments psionic powers" as he put it. It's going to be originally on an illithid we fight, then recoverable for the party (which will include at least 1 PsyWar and possibly a Psion to fight over it). I'm thinking Practiced Manifester would be a good starting point, but would it be balanced to give that for a ring slot to a level 12ish character? Maybe just giving some free PP? I figured the Psionics board would be the best place for this. :D
AntiDjinn 02-05-08, 10:32 PM	Augments as in adds points, reduces cost, or actually boosting ML? Adding points is tricky: All points used to manifest a power must come from a single source. So an item that pays added points needs to use different mechanics. Reducing costs is easy: Just make it a Torc of Power Preservation that takes up a ring slot instead of the throat slot. Or, since an illithid may have the ring on a tentacle, maybe it still uses the throat/amulet slot. Reducing cost also gets around the single point source rule since it is making the power cheaper to throw rather than feeding points into the manifestation. To boost ML you could base it off Practiced Manifester, though adding up to +4 ML is quite a bit. Decide in advance if wearing the ring means you are considered to have the feat or if the feat is just required to craft the ring and it has its own defined effects. For example, could an ardent actually know more powers when wearing it than not? You could also base the item off Overchannel which is not a bad option since it forces the wearer to take some hurt to activate it. Making Wild Surge the base mechanic might also be an option, though PCs might not a appreciate getting dazed by their own item and it is doubtful an illithid would be carrying such a thing. Also, given that it is found on an illithid, it could be as easily based off of an enhance psi-like ability feat.
calronmoonflower 02-06-08, 02:46 AM	The Epic Level Handbook has rings of psionics (like rings of wizardry) that adds to your power point total. If you figure out the progression you could make regular level versions of those.
Bacris 02-06-08, 10:43 AM	Sounds akin to the Wild Surge class feature, but without the risk of enervation, yes? If it was an "every power" sort of thing, the question then is - does it allow going over the wearer's ML? If so, I'd charge it above the cost of a Torc of Power Pres (40+k). If not, I'd charge the same as a Torc of Power Pres (36k).
AlterFrom 02-06-08, 12:26 PM	I took a peek at the epic psionic rings, and the progression is +4 more PP each ring you go up. So, starting at the ERP V, which grants +43 PP, we get: ERP IV: 27 (16K gp) ERP III: 13 (9K gp) ERP II: 3 (4K gp) ERP I: -5 (1Kgp) (:P) We're hesitant to use the Torc of Preservation route, because even up to level 14 that's half the character's WBL. What about making it the ability to preserve points on a power X/day? Otherwise, the Ring of Psionics III looks decent, if maybe underpriced.
Bacris 02-06-08, 12:33 PM	There's a charges-per-day version of the Torc of Power Preservation in the Magic Item Compendium, but I'm afraid I don't have the stats handy.
AlterFrom 02-06-08, 12:54 PM	[1 Quick trip to mah buuk bukket later] Hmm, the MIC ToPP looks good. I'll direct him to this thread and let him decide exactly what he wants the ring to do. Thanks all! :D
AntiDjinn 02-06-08, 01:28 PM	The MIC version is 5 times per day. It keeps the original version's unfortunate wording of "standard cost" which is undefined. The XPH talks about the base cost of a power, and a metapsionic cost, but doesn't define standard cost. Most here have interpreted "standard cost" to be the same as "base cost" which is the minimum to manifest a power before adding augmentation, metapsionics, or specials such as costs for Volatile Mind or Catapsi. If your DM takes this interpretation, then a Torc of Power Preservation lets you spend one extra point (though it technically still does not boost your ML by one). If your DM interprets "standard cost" to be what you would normally pay to manifest after all the math has been done, then the item only saves you a point. If the second interpretation is used, then there is definitely no reason to limit it to 5 uses per day.
RWFA 02-07-08, 10:44 PM	OK, Hi Jack I am the DM, but what i was hoping for was that the ring would have an effect like empower spell to existing powers. but if the user didn't have psionic powers, then it would allow the user to us the psionic powers of a mind flayer. My biggest problem is that i don't know enough about how psionics work, so i cant come up with a reasonable solution. :confused: I unfortunately don't know what these other things do so i realized i should come clear things up. Thanks for the help so far.
AntiDjinn 02-07-08, 11:16 PM	That would be a very complex item, and hard to price if it has effect X when used by a manifester and Y when used by another being. If the item is non-unique, then you generally start by writing up its crafting procedure: What feat is used to craft it, what specific powers, cost, level requirements, etc. Any character with the prereqs could make one of his own. If the item is unique, then things get easier: You just determine what you want it to do, and it is what it is with no need to balance the costs of how it was made. In that case, you only need to know the level of its crafter for purposes such as resisting Disjunction and such. As a standard item, Empower to any power is going to be expensive. It has the Empower Power feat, simple enough. It also reduces the cost of manifesting the empowered power by two points (which is what makes the Empower free) so that is twice what a Torc of Power Preservation does. You don't mention a limit on uses per day, which can get pretty expensive. A Metamagic rod: Empower Spell is only usable 3 times per day, and has a limit on the level of spell affected based on the level of the rod. If this is any power, regardless of level or augmentation, and no limit on uses per day, then it is an item that only a paragon mind flayer or better is likely to have. You should probably limit it to once per round, just to avoid issues (Schism, Link Power, others). As far as giving any non-psionic character the powers of an illithid, a normal illithid manifests as a 9th level telepath. The powers listed on p. 204 of the XPH are typical, but the DM actually gets to pick. No clue here on how to make this item, but you may be the case that the party psion will hand it off to the bard because he gets better use out of it.
Lycanthromancer 02-08-08, 12:25 AM	An item like that would be far more like a psionic cohort than an actual item, even if it doesn't have mental ability scores of any kind. My suggestion is to make it an intelligent item, and treat it as a cohort/artifact, rather than a simple magic item.
Scion of Coldshard 02-08-08, 12:36 AM	It could be easier, and cheaper gp wise, to make the item intelligent and go from there.. easier in the sense of it being easier to do a writeup of, the actual in game use would likely be much more complicated to deal with ;) If the item simply gave the character 2pp back after any manifestation of a power using the empower power feat that would be pretty simple and likely not all that costly. If the item granted the use of the empower power feat that would be ok cost wise as well. If it did both that would start increasing the costs by quite a bit ;) I suppose you could go both ways with it though. Make the item intelligent but the intelligence is suppressed while the item is not worn. If the item is worn then the intelligence 'wakes up' after 1 minute of being worn by a character who is not holding psionic focus (this makes it bad to sleep with it on and it allows for only non-psionic characters to have to worry about the sleeping mind generally). Whenever a psionic character wearing the ring manifests a power if the mind is still suppressed then they may expend their psionic focus to gain the benefits of the empower power feat, the normal pp cost must still be paid and the focus cost was paid during the use, effectively as normal. If the mind awakens and the item is not being worn by an illithiad then the trouble begins. If the character can beat the ego score of the item then they can direct it to use its powers as the character sees fit. Every time the character tries to use a power it forces an ego check, and the amount of time of concentration it takes is one step greater than the time it would normally take to manifest the power (Swift/Immediate -> move, move -> standard, standard -> full-round, full-round -> 1 round, anything else add 1 stanard action; I would say it also provokes aoo's unless done defensively and the character takes a penalty equal to the ego check of half the damage dealt or 5 if done defensively). If the item takes over the character it will use the characters abilities and its own to the best of its power to get itself back into the hands of an illithiad. At that point we are looking at an item which helps out manifesters in a nice little way, but not extreme, and has a darker side that other characters might try to take advantage of.. ultimately to their peril most likely. Since I would basically consider the sleeping mind to be a curse on the object rather than a boon I would probably call it about 5k and then see just how crazy the players are feeling... and watch carefully to see if any psionic wearer goes without being psionically focused for more than a minute.. waking up the mind and forcing an ego check could be very interesting ;)
RWFA 02-08-08, 06:33 PM	i like that last suggestion. it fits with what i want to do and adds a nice spin on it. i think it will start with a lower ego and then as it gets used more that increases. i dont want it to be wanting to be with an illithid, but i think that it will try to get in the hands of a more powerful being. Thanks for the help, i've been thinking about this scince new year began.