Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TazendrasGhost 12-20-07, 10:26 AM	My telepath took it in the nads a couple of days ago in a fight that almost got the entire party killed. As usual, we took on something a good bit more powerful than we should have, and survived only through some lucky rolls and a BBEG who didn't want to waste his valuable time destroying with us, something he could have done easily. Instead, he cast a single Baleful Polymorph spell at the person who had annoyed him most (me), as an object lesson to the rest of the party about bothering high level wizards who do not want to be bothered, then teleported out, leaving a few minions behind to deal with us. The party saw my character turn into something small and fuzzy just before the wizard's minions attacked, and were too busy trying to stay alive to pay much attention to what happened to me. While my character failed his Fort save against the spell, he made his Will save and retained his intelligence, and his Psionic abilities. The BBEG turned out to be much, much, much higher in level than us, so removing the spell is out, at least in the short term. After the fight the other players thought I must be dead and assumed I would just roll up a new character, but I really liked my old telepath character, and don't want to throw him away if I can avoid it. I have decided to attempt to keep playing him, as he can be quite functional as a Telepath in his new form (owl). I am very close to leveling up, and am thinking of taking a level in Thrallherd, and telling the other players that I have decided to play a wizard instead. Of course this wizard would actually be the Thrall of my Telepath character, who would be posing as the Wizard's familiar. While my character doesn't really like the idea of staying as a Owl indefinately, he also has numerous enemies that were actively plotting his death, so spending a year or two as an owl isn't all bad. He is a bit annoyed with the other characters, who complained that they wished the BBEG had just killed him so they could loot his corpse (can't blame them, my character was pretty annoying) and my character would love to pull one over on them, just to see the look on their faces when they realize that he's still around. The other players don't frequent the boards here, so they won't likely read this, but they are the type of people who would laugh and enjoy the surprise once they figure out he's still alive and with them in another form. Our gaming group has a tradition of in character practical jokes, and this could be one of the best. So what I'm looking for is advice. My DM is open to this possibility, and doesn't see a problem with it. My chacter is(was) a Human Telepath 8/Mindbender 1, about to be a Telepath 8/Mindbender 1/Thrallherd 1. What I'm looking for advice for is what to do next? Should I stay with levels in Thrallherd, or go back to Psion, or something else? One big problem I have is the lack of magic items, as they all melded into my body when I got Polymorphed. Any ideas on how to get around this? I can't get the items back without getting the spell removed, which is unlikely due to the level of the wizard who cast it on me. What about his Thrall? The DM says I can design him, and he'll have PC wealth for his level (9th) He needs to have at least one level of wizard or other class that has access to a familiar, but other than that he could be just about anything.
Bacris 12-20-07, 10:33 AM	Null Psionics Field? Antimagic Field? 11x60 = 660 gp cost. Wouldn't permanently remove it, but would suppress it, so you could get the equipment.
Mercurius 12-20-07, 11:02 AM	That's an excellent idea, Bacris. Once the items are free of you via the AMF, you could put the ones you still have slots for back on and sell off the others, or give 'em to your thrall... I'd say sticking with Thrallherd for several levels is worth it, unless your character has a low CHA, or you have no desire to have believers. The class gives you several handy goodies, and it'll make your thrall the best it could be for a long time to come. Something like this was actually entered in an older Hero Craftsman competition (the current one is linked in my sig) - a half-orc rogue/telepath/thrall herd polymorphed into a cat and with a wizard thrall. A very cool character. You might want to consider sorcerer over wizard, though, so that he could be good at bluffing the PCs about his relationship with your character. And I'd advise going full caster, though abuse of PrCs is always encouraged, I guess.
Kelmourne 12-20-07, 12:08 PM	Your gonna need a story for your thrall. Does he know your character at all? Needless to say, this seems really funny and fun. I wish I was you just so I could see the look on your friends faces :)
InkBlot 12-20-07, 12:32 PM	A story for a thrall? Thralls are fanatic lapdogs drawn by their own psychological weaknesses and the Thrallherd's magnetic personality. The only story he needs is: "I saw [PC] talking to a vendor in the market two months ago. It was obvious then, from his manner of speech and the shape of his eyebrows, that [PC] was the chosen one, and that it were my destiny to follow him as loyal servant to the ends of the world." Really. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T1LIrzsgqA&feature=related) edit: OK, that and "I grew up in the small boring town of Podunkburg, and apprenticed under Xyz the somnambulist mage for 15 years, before setting up my own laboratory 7 months ago. Then I met [PC]."
CrimsonDeath 12-20-07, 02:47 PM	I'd say sticking with Thrallherd for several levels is worth it, unless your character has a low CHA, or you have no desire to have believers. I'd say the lower your Charisma, the better Thrallherd levels are. Remember that each Thrallherd level counts as two levels for calculating your Leadership score.
jbsaff 12-20-07, 03:42 PM	All items worn or carried by the subject fall to the ground at its feet, even if they could be worn or carried by the new form. Did your DM houserule this? Might help with the "Psion is dead, long live the Psion" prank if the other PCs really do get to loot your stuff. You might want to figure out your story for what all those believers are doing showing up. Crazy Cult of the Owl? Your Thrall as the Mouthpiece of the Chosen One? And yeah, more Thrallherd levels are usually better since they count for extra on your score. You actually don't even need a good CHA to be a decent Thrallherd at all.
InkBlot 12-20-07, 04:11 PM	Have you thought about getting a psicrystal? Your wizard could wear it as an amulet, and wield it in his hand when you channel touch powers through it. Later on you can even send all your powers through your psicrystal, so if you want to smack a horde of enemies with an energy wave the wizard can hold high "his Amulet Of Dirom'tir" while you manifest the power, and the 120-foot cone of flames will shoot forth from the crystal. Ideally, you'll be flying in circles several dozen feet (at least) over the battlefield.
TheKeyofE 12-20-07, 05:13 PM	You might want to figure out your story for what all those believers are doing showing up. Crazy Cult of the Owl? Your Thrall as the Mouthpiece of the Chosen One? Pretend that the wizard has Leadership, even though he doesn't actually. Just don't let the other players see the character sheet (it doesn't matter if the DM sees it, since he's in on the joke).
jbsaff 12-20-07, 05:37 PM	My groups have tended toward a group-think situation, with everyone in on everyone else's ideas and stuff. So I tend to forget that you can just dupe the poor, unenlightened fools, er... party members.
ToastedAmphibian 12-20-07, 08:23 PM	Have you thought about getting a psicrystal? Your wizard could wear it as an amulet, and wield it in his hand when you channel touch powers through it. Later on you can even send all your powers through your psicrystal, so if you want to smack a horde of enemies with an energy wave the wizard can hold high "his Amulet Of Dirom'tir" while you manifest the power, and the 120-foot cone of flames will shoot forth from the crystal. Ideally, you'll be flying in circles several dozen feet (at least) over the battlefield. Just make sure you tell the other players that he is a cerebromancer (Dont actually make him a cerebromancer, ick, just tell them that you did)
TazendrasGhost 12-21-07, 08:42 AM	Thanks for all the ideas! Bacris: That's an excellent idea to get back his melded equipment. Getting a Scroll for my Thrall to read will be a very early priority. The Psicrystal idea is a nice one too. I may go that route, and I particularly like having my Thrall pretend to be a Cerebromancer. Mercurius: I went back and checked out that Hero Craftsman entry. Pretty cool. jbsaf: I went back and looked and it seems the Polymorph line of spells has been errated yet again, and show the line that you quoted. I checked the latest WOTC and by the latest errata my whole idea won't work as I'd lose my class abilities too. I wish WOTC would pick an interpretation on Polymorph and stick to it. Fortunately for me, I called my DM last night to let him know the spell changed, and my DM is being nice enough to not use the new version of the spell so I'm OK as the version we have refers back to Polymorph and Alter Self which says that all equipment melds into the body. I don't need to worry about someone else seeing my character sheets. Our group is a stickler on that. I don't even know the actuall classes taken by some of the other PCs. It makes rogues much more fun to play, they can attempt to siphon off treasure before the rest of the party sees it.
Bacris 12-21-07, 09:04 AM	Something to keep in mind about a scroll - the cost is 1,650 gp. The price I quoted is if you hire someone to do it.
archerpwr 12-21-07, 06:58 PM	This has got to be one of the most brilliant ideas I've seen in a while. Props. I'd almost play a telepath for this(or just use EK and enter thrallherd).
CrimsonDeath 12-21-07, 11:32 PM	I particularly like having my Thrall pretend to be a Cerebromancer. I just realized that it won't even be all that unbelievable, since an early-entry Cerebremancer will have powers on par with a Thrallherd of his level and spells about a spell level behind.
Zathress 12-24-07, 02:32 PM	I don't actually think you have a problem, Baleful Polymorph isn't immune to dispel magic like say flesh to stone is. And you don't have to be a higher level then the caster either. Say it was a 17th level wizard. The DC to dispel that would be 28. For you to dispel that you'd need to roll a 19 to get beat the DC of 28. If he's a 18th level wizard it be a 20. Any higher and you'll have to wait a level or so. And if you fail a dispel check NOTHING stops you from trying again and again until you succeed or learn even a natural 20 won't do it for you. Though technically the augmentation on dispel psionics says it increases the bonus to the check not the Manifester level cap. So a 10th level psion can spend an extra 5 PP to add a total of +20 to his dispel checks. (most GM's rule it increases the cap). And if you consider the number of dispels the typical adventure encounters over the course of the year. Your baleful polymorph might be accidentally dispelled the next encounter.
Nabuchadnezzar 12-24-07, 02:36 PM	dispel psionics is a must have for psions, and with overchannel you should be able to manifest dispel psionics as if you had 2 more levels (you should have overchannel too), so you eventually will be able to dispel that polymorf...
TazendrasGhost 12-29-07, 02:38 PM	Thanks to everyone who posted for suggestions. I thought I'd post a report on how the first gaming session went with my character posing as the familiar of my "replacement character" I met with my DM for a couple of hours over the holidays to work up my Thrall with him and roleplay my meeting the Thrall (as an owl) and got him to the point where he was ready to meet the party in the next gaming session. I showed him the Wizard character I had created using some advice from TreantMonks most excellent God thread on how to make an effective wizard and I could see that my DM was getting a little nervous about the Thrall's power level. One player in our group tends to make characters that are very complicated, but weak, his current character is a Mystic Theurge that is totally ineffective. Another player has some sort of Soulknife/Soulbow combo who is also very weak in or out of combat. Yet another is a single class Fighter with some unfortunate feat choices. The party rogue is probably the only character that actually is combat effective for his actual level, with the party Favored Soul not too far behind. Our DM is pretty good at keeping all the characters challenged no matter what their power level, and our game has a huge social and political aspect, so having some characters with limited combat effectiveness is not necessarily that bad a thing, but I could see that, due to most of the rest of the party's self inflicted ineptness, a well optimized wizard character could really make the DMs job harder, even though he was a level behind the other characters. He would have been more effective in and out of combat than most of the other PCs on his own, let alone as the Thrall of my character. I joked that maybe I should come up with something a bit less optimal, and could see that he was a bit relieved. He tries very hard to work with the players to play whatever character type they want to play, an attitude that I respect and try not to take advantage of. We joked for a while about what arcane spell casting class combo was least effective, and he wondered out loud what caster would be mentally weak enough to be under my total control. That gave me an idea to try out a concept I always wanted to play but never did due to the class's lousy mechanics: a Rage Mage. This was the perfect opportunity, and fit well thematically, a somewhat mentally unstable Sorcerer that had limited control over his powers. So we worked on it for a while, and before long my new character was ready to go. In my DM's game world, Half Orcs have +2 STR and either -2 INT OR -2 CHA, so I took the -2 to INT and made a Half Orc Sorcerer/Barbarian/Rage Mage. My Thrall has a bit of a chip on his shoulder because he feels that no one takes Half Orcs seriously, and no one takes Sorcerers seriously. He comes from a semi primitive society that worships totem animals, and found me after participating in a ritual that consisted of sitting in his tribe's medicine lodge smoking and drinking until he hallucinated. While stoned out of his mind he had a vision to come find me. He did not know who I was, only that he would know me when he found me, and immediately left his tribe. A few weeks later he found me and was awed that I was a telepathic Owl, the totem animal that he venerates. Owl in their culture is a night hunter and somewhat of a trickster and he feels that he should follow me to gain power. He took it as a great omen. I have not lied to him, he knows I was not always an owl, and knows exactly what happened to me, but is playing along with me as he believes that is destined by his gods that he help me. So a few days later the group got together for another gaming session, and the rest of the party ran into my shiny new Half Orc Barbarian/Sorcerer/Rage Mage as he was busy teaching some bandits the error of their ways (by killing them) after they had attacked a convoy of religious pilgrims. The pilgrims all venerated the same diety of our party's Mystic Theurge, who was quite grateful for my help as the party had not arrived until most of the bandits were dead. After getting the pilgrims to safety, the party decided to invite my Thrall to join them, for they were about to continue their search for a relic that The Theurge had been tasked with retrieving. As we traveled into the mountains I endured many jokes from the other characters to my Thrall about how glad they were to have him in the group, and how much of an improvement over the old character he was. As I represent a trickster spirit, my Thrall feels entirely comfortable playing along and not reacting when the party mentions me as he knows that I am traveling incognito. It also makes him feel superior to the others as he has been chosen to help me and the party "book wizard" (Mystic Theurge) does not understand anything. My Thrall mentioned that he had a familiar, but I stayed tucked away in a pouch under his cloak for the entire game session. So far, so good. I don't think anyone suspects yet. :-) My Thrallherd's only concern so far is that he realized that my new Thrall started looking for me two weeks before I was Polymorphed into an Owl. I suspect my DM has something in mind for me and I'm looking forward to finding out what. We'll play again next weekend, so I'll have another update to post then if anyone is interested.
archerpwr 12-29-07, 02:50 PM	Very entertaining. I used this for inspiration for a PC. A bit more optimized, but not quite as powerful as the wizard applying for the same game. Here is the PC you inspired me to create. Thank's for sharing the entertaining story.
Bacris 12-29-07, 02:53 PM	That's a very cool gaming situation :) Gives me ideas for a character, too!
TazendrasGhost 12-30-07, 12:40 PM	Glad you liked it. I'm having a lot of fun with it. :) Archerpwr: Like the character, looking forward to seeing how your game goes.
archerpwr 12-30-07, 12:53 PM	Glad you liked it. I'm having a lot of fun with it. :) Archerpwr: Like the character, looking forward to seeing how your game goes. As am I. All I've got left is cleaning up the sheet, picking spells prepared, and accounting for start of the day buffs.
TazendrasGhost 03-08-08, 10:58 AM	Update: So far I have been able to pull off posing as my new characters familiar for 5 levels now. We have played together for at least 5 sessions now, and so far none of the other players seems to have suspected, even though I and the DM have given out more than a few hints. I used Bacris's suggestion, and was able to get my magic items back a while back. I had my Thrall sell the ones I couldn't use anymore when we finally reached a town, and he was able to get some equipment for himself. My biggest fear has been getting hit with a Dispel, particularly as we gain levels. I recently hit 15th level, and spent XP to research the Kineticist Power Dispelling Buffer, and I have been very careful to stay out of the way most of the time. Its amazing how no one pays attention to familiars. I spend most of my time either tucked under my Thrall's Cloak, or out scouting for the party far from view. I've been in combat a few times by myself. The party has twice stumbled across corpses that I took out, and now think that there is another major threat that is shadowing them. My Thrall has been around for a while, and has been accepted into the party quite well. We have run into 10 of his fellow tribesmen on a regular occasion (my believers, one of the DM's hints to the rest of the group about what is going on ) and I have been hard pressed to maneuver things to keep my secret. At the last gaming session, I had my chance to start fresh. We teleported 300 miles away to a new city (the tribesmen were left behind helping out a small village we had rescued) which got the immediate pressure off. Later we tangled with a long standing group of enemies that we had tracked to this city, and during a major battle, my Thrall died. We were getting our asses handed to us (as usual) and in the middle of a battle he failed his save against a Death Urge as he was charging the enemy Psion, who was standing on a small suspension bridge over a huge pool of bubbling lava. As he was already charging the Psion, he kept on running and threw himself over the edge into the lava pit, knocking the enemy Psion over with him. The rest of the group was sorry to see him go (unlike my original character), and after the battle, we talked about what I would play next, as the body wasn't recoverable. The rogue died too, and wanted to play something different, so I offered to play a skill monkey type character. The rogue's players is going to play a Warblade instead. I am now working up a Factotum/Incarnate/Chameleon to fill the skill monkey party role as my new Thrall. She'll play a lot like a wizard/Rogue Multi-class, which will help explain the familiar. I joked at the end of the last game that I really liked the familiar I had as a party scout, and that the new character would have something similar. My first action in the next game, will be my new character pretending to summon a familiar, and I will show up as the new familiar. I'll be interested to see if I can pull it off.
Xaxor 03-08-08, 08:31 PM	Two words: PURE GENIUS.
Nirid 03-08-08, 08:49 PM	Since you are going to have a new character and in theory a new familiar you should change forms. While you could say that both characters smmoned the same animal, it is a bit of a stretch and may blow your cover. There is no reason you couldn't baleful polymorph yourself into another form. There are so many options.
celestialkin 03-08-08, 09:13 PM	This reminds me of my awakened psion cat Ghost (his name, not a real ghost). Oh the fun memories. He also took levels in Thrallherd. Trust me this can bring up a lot of fun role-playing potential if you have the right group with the right (aka fun oriented) mindset, which you seem to have. I never enjoyed a character more than I did Ghost. Heck, I am currently experimenting with DMing, and Ghost is actually the guy hiring the party (although they do not suspect it yet). Sorry for the rant, but yeah, it can be a very fun idea to keep this character going.
kyeudo 03-08-08, 09:27 PM	You, sir, win at life. Good luck.
kyeudo 03-08-08, 09:30 PM	You, sir, win at life. Good luck with keeping your cover. When do you plan your triumphant return as your origional character?
SquibThePirate 03-09-08, 12:45 AM	It wouldn't be too much of a stretch if he just says that he is fond of owls. The other players won't think much of it, and I too am inspired by this thread.
X0_Lt_0X 03-09-08, 01:20 AM	... Awesome.
Nirid 03-09-08, 02:58 PM	It wouldn't be too much of a stretch if he just says that he is fond of owls. The other players won't think much of it, and I too am inspired by this thread. I would just be careful if someone noticed it was the same owl. If any of the players have a high spot/know:nat the DM may let them roll to notice. I'm just erring on the side of caution. You can always pick owl again if you want. Side note... Look to the eberron book for the cloak of kyber spell. Otherwise the first thing you encounter that has true sight may blow your cover.
TazendrasGhost 03-09-08, 03:12 PM	True seeing is a big concern, and one of the main reasons I tend to keep out of sight. Its the most likely way for me to blow my cover. I am also very fortunate that most of the other players seem to view spending ranks on ANY skill as a waste of time. I've gotten away with manifesting powers a few times while my Thrall gestured and chanted. I don't have any control over my form, I was hit with a Baleful Polymorph spell, its not like I can change to something else on my own. I'm hoping to have the party come across my new thrall as she is summoning her familiar. My old Thrall's familiar will just happen to be the closest critter, so got transfered. If it doesn't work out and the party catches on, it won't be the end of the world. This has been going on for long enough now to be a good joke. The Ex-rogue's player seems to have been working on his own agenda as well, its not just me. His body was nonrecoverable in the same fight, but we got his pack, and it was full of magic items, money and gems. Assuming that the rogue was wearing most of his wealth, from what we found just in his pack he must have been skimming from the rest of us for a long time now. :-)
McPoyo 03-11-08, 08:59 AM	I've got a very strong urge to combine this with the "Psion Sandwhich" Idea now. Rage mage with a pet sandwich... Keep us updated on how it works out, I'm loving it.
TazendrasGhost 03-15-08, 11:43 AM	Well it had to end sometime, and last night was the night. In the last gaming session two of the party members had died, my Thrall, and the party Rogue. This session started with the remaining party members (Fighter, Cleric/Wiz/Mystic Theurge, Soulknife/Soulbow, and Favored Soul) getting ready to make their way back out of the underground complex that we had been in for the last few days. We had succeeded in our mission of tracking down and eliminating one of the group's major enemies, although it had cost us heavily. I was looking forward towards having the party meet up with my new Thrall. The dead rogue's player had made a new character as well, a Warblade, and the two of us had gotten together before the game last night, and worked out how the Warblade and my new Thrall knew each other. Anyway, the group headed back across the suspension bridge over the lava pit that led back towards the surface. We would have liked to just teleport out, but in the last battle, our Mystic Theurge had taken two enervation spells, and run out of fifth level wizard spells, so the group decided to walk out. We reached the end of the bridge and were back on solid ground when we were ambushed. A small emaciated halfling stepped out from the shadows and reached up, and threw the 6'4" mithril full plate armor wearing Favored Soul over the edge, into the pit. The 300 pound armored projectile slammed into the Mystic Theurge along the way.The Soulknife managed to dodge him, and the Fighter wasn't in line so he wasn't targeted. The halfling turned towards the Soulknife as the Fighter charged. The fighter swung his sword..........and the halfling reached up, and redirected the blow so that it hit the Soulknife. The fighter got a critical hit, and the Soulknife looked like she was about to go down hard. She stepped back and drew out a potion and drank it while the Mystic Theurge cast an Acid Orb at the halfling, who dodged it. I decided I couldn't wait. In one round, this halfling had taken out one party member, damaged another, and caused the party fighter to almost one shot the Soulknife. I was looking at a TPK here. I gave the DM a dirty look and resolved never again to talk to him about what characters I wanted to play sometime as I had just mentioned how much I'd like to try out a Swordsage who used the Setting Sun discipline a few weeks ago, and now one was beating the crap out of us. The players jaw's dropped when I announced that a ray of energy shot from the little Owl's eyes, striking the halfling in the chest. Hi guys, I'm back....Did you miss me? I added telepathically to the other characters. The halfling made his save against my Disintigrate, but I had augmented as much as I could, so he took some damage. The DM announced that we could hear sounds of fighting coming from the room just past the bridge, and seconds later, the Warblade, and my new Thrall appeared. The halfling didn't wait, and disappeared from view, just as the Favored Soul levitated back up from the pit. I had forgotten that he had winged boots. So the fight was over, and I had a lot of explaining to do. :-) The other characters were pretty ****** at my character, but the players couldn't stop laughing, particularly the guy who played the rogue who had been skimming from the group and was bragging last time on pulling one over on the rest of us. The Warblade and my Thrall told the party that they had been exploring the cavern complex, and had run into the halfling's partners, who must have been watching his back while he took on the rest of the party. We all went back to the city. After discussing it with the group, I decided not to have my new Thrall adventure with us full time. The party decided to stay in the city, and my Thrall would work on his/my plan to infiltrate, and eventually take over the city's criminal underground. I would use my Thrall for information gathering purposes, which would make him more of a party resource, albeit one where any information came through me. I dispelled the Baleful Polymoprh, and I regained my original form. My Thrall's first task will be to find out who the hell that halfling was.