| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| ElecTech04-13-07, 02:43 AM | Diamond Saint. Five centuries ago Reshar the Sword Saint, bound the nine disciplines of fighting. One by one he mastered, till he came to the last style......."Diamond Mind". He studied with the master's of the style deep within the Adar Mountains of Sarlona, till he came to master the style just as he had mastered the ones before it. And he left them as he had came. The Kashlatar master's still stand there to this day. The masters of the Diamond Mind have become called Diamond Saints and have perfected the blending of the sword and the mind. Requirments: Base Attack Bonus: +5 Martial Manueers:Must Know One Diamond Mind Strike and One Diamond Mind Manifester Level: 5 ML Feats: Instant Clarity, Psionic Weapon, Speed of Thought Special: Must have trained under the masters of Diamond Mind in Adar. Level BAB Fort Will Ref ML Stance Man Kn Man Red Ability 1 +1 +2 +2 0 1 1 0 Greater Psionic Weapon 2 +2 +3 +3 0 +1 ML 0 0 0 Speed of the Mind 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 +1 ML 0 1 1 Wisdom of Clarity 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 +1 ML 0 0 0 - 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 0 0 1 Speed of the Mind 6 +6 +5 +5 +2 +1ML 0 1 0 - 7 +7 +5 +5 +2 +1ML 1 0 1 Strength of the Mind 8 +8 +6 +6 +2 +1ML 0 0 0 Speed of the Mind 9 +9 +6 +6 +3 0 1 1 Force of Mind 10 +10 +7 +7 +3 +1ML 0 0 0 Master of the Saints. Special Abilities 1- Greater Psionic Weapon At level 1 you are granted the feat Greater Psionic Weapon 2-Speed of the mind At level 2, when psionicly focused you add +10 to your land speed that stacks with speed of thought. You also gain this ability at 5 and 8 3-Wisdom of Clarity You gain power points equal to the base cost of your highest level power whenever you complete a manuever. 7-Strength of the Mind You gain access to all powers on the egoist power list. 9-Force of Mind. You are able to use Ultra Blast 1/day augmented to your Base Attack Bonus 10-Master Of Saints. You are able to use your sword as if it was part of you. For One Minute 1/day you effectively make double the amount of attacks you are able to normally make. You strike not only with your sword but with your mind, the image of a ghostly second sword appears at each of your attacks. This is considered a force effect. I apologize if this class isn't as clean looking as others might be not to familiar with working with this sort of thing. |
| Nifft04-13-07, 03:56 AM | Just remember that, even if you change the font, HTML still renders multiple whitespace as one single space. Use [ code ] tags instead of [ font ] tags. -- N |
| calronmoonflower04-13-07, 03:18 PM | Diamond Saint. Five centuries ago Reshar the Sword Saint, bound the nine disciplines of fighting. One by one he mastered, till he came to the last style......."Diamond Mind". He studied with the master's of the style deep within the Adar Mountains of Sarlona, till he came to master the style just as he had mastered the ones before it. And he left them as he had came. The Kashlatar master's still stand there to this day. The masters of the Diamond Mind have become called Diamond Saints and have perfected the blending of the sword and the mind. Requirments: Base Attack Bonus: +5 Martial Manueers:Must Know One Diamond Mind Strike and One Diamond Mind Manifester Level: 5 ML Feats: Instant Clarity, Psionic Weapon, Speed of Thought Special: Must have trained under the masters of Diamond Mind in Adar. Level BAB Fort Will Ref ML Stance Man Kn Man Red Ability 1 +1 +2 +2 0 1 1 0 Greater Psionic Weapon 2 +2 +3 +3 0 +1 ML 0 0 0 Speed of the Mind 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 +1 ML 0 1 1 Wisdom of Clarity 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 +1 ML 0 0 0 - 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 0 0 1 Speed of the Mind 6 +6 +5 +5 +2 +1ML 0 1 0 - 7 +7 +5 +5 +2 +1ML 1 0 1 Strength of the Mind 8 +8 +6 +6 +2 +1ML 0 0 0 Speed of the Mind 9 +9 +6 +6 +3 0 1 1 Force of Mind 10 +10 +7 +7 +3 +1ML 0 0 0 Master of the Saints. I put code tags around the chart. Special Abilities 1- Greater Psionic Weapon At level 1 you are granted the feat Greater Psionic Weapon You should say that they get the bonus feat, even if they do not meet the prerequisites. Also what if they already have the feat? You should cover that even if they do not get to chose a new one. 2-Speed of the mind At level 2, when psionicly focused you add +10 to your land speed that stacks with speed of thought. You also gain this ability at 5 and 8 You should say that the effects of this feat increase at 2nd, 5th and 8th level. This is because the feats effect wouldn't stack with itself. 3-Wisdom of Clarity You gain power points equal to the base cost of your highest level power whenever you complete a maneuver. Overpowered as listed. You should limit it's uses per day. Maybe to 3/day. 7-Strength of the Mind You gain access to all powers on the egoist power list. Seems fine. 9-Force of Mind. You are able to use Ultra Blast 1/day augmented to your Base Attack Bonus You should say this is a psi-like ability (Ps). 10-Master Of Saints. You are able to use your sword as if it was part of you. For One Minute 1/day you effectively make double the amount of attacks you are able to normally make. You strike not only with your sword but with your mind, the image of a ghostly second sword appears at each of your attacks. This is considered a force effect. You should say that this doesn't stack with the diamond minds 9th level maneuver Time Stands Still. I apologize if this class isn't as clean looking as others might be not to familiar with working with this sort of thing.[/QUOTE] Click here to go to the page that tells you how to use v8 Code. It's the code the board uses. (http://boards1.wizards.com/misc.php?do=bbcode) |
| carnivore04-13-07, 03:31 PM | nice......i would add: change ML req to : "Must be able to manifest 2nd level Powers" also add : " Each Class level adds to your Initiator level for your total Initiator level for Manuvers Known and Maximum level of Manuvers." :D |
| ElecTech04-13-07, 09:37 PM | First time making the class. Also all martial prc's automaticly add to the initiator level as per the rules stated in the tome of battle. Well then a few revisions. 1- Greater Psionic Weapon- Gain the feat Greater Psionic Weapon. If you already have Greater Psionic Weapon, you gain access to one Psionic Feat. 2- Speed of Thought- The effects of your speed of thought feat increase by +10 at 2nd,5th , and 8th. 3- Wisdom of Clarity- Duration is 1/round per lvl in Diamond Saint. You gain one use at lvl 3,6, and 9. 9-ultrablast is a 1/day psi-like ability you manifest at your manifester lvl. 10-Does not stack with the diamond mind manuever Time stands still. Requirments are being dropped down to ML4 and Base attack Bonus 4 I don't want to switch from Manifester levels since that would basicly kick hurt psychic warriers and wilders. I wanted this to be both a class that any psionic character could potentially access, save for soulknife. Btw thank you very much for helping me clean up how the class looks, this is the first attempt at creating PrC. It probabaly shows. |
| carnivore04-14-07, 01:21 PM | try this: Diamond Saint Five centuries ago Reshar the Sword Saint, bound the nine disciplines of fighting. One by one he mastered, till he came to the last style......."Diamond Mind". He studied with the master's of the style deep within the Adar Mountains of Sarlona, till he came to master the style just as he had mastered the ones before it. And he left them as he had came. The Kashlatar master's still stand there to this day. The masters of the Diamond Mind have become called Diamond Saints and have perfected the blending of the sword and the mind. Requirments: Base Attack Bonus: +4 Martial Manueers:Must Know One Diamond Mind Strike and One Diamond Mind Stance. Must be able to manifest 2nd level Powers Feats: Instant Clarity, Psionic Weapon, Speed of Thought Special: Must have trained under the masters of Diamond Mind in Adar. Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d10. Class Skills The Diamond Saint’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Level BAB Fort Will Ref ML Stance Man Kn Man Red Ability 1 +1 +2 +2 0 1 1 0 Greater Psionic Weapon 2 +2 +3 +3 0 +1 ML 0 0 0 Speed of the Mind(+10 Speed) 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 +1 ML 0 1 1 Wisdom of Clarity(1/day) 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 +1 ML 0 0 0 - 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 0 0 1 Speed of the Mind(+20 Speed) 6 +6 +5 +5 +2 +1ML 0 1 0 Wisdom of Clarity(2/day) 7 +7 +5 +5 +2 +1ML 1 0 1 Strength of the Mind(access to Egoist Discipline Power List) 8 +8 +6 +6 +2 +1ML 0 0 0 Speed of the Mind(+30 Speed) 9 +9 +6 +6 +3 0 1 1 Force of Mind,Wisdom of Clarity(3/day) 10 +10 +7 +7 +3 +1ML 0 0 0 Master of the Saints(1/day). Class Features All the following are class features of the Diamond Saint prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Diamond Saints gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor. Powers Known: At every level, except 1st, 5th and 9th level, a Diamond Saint gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of Diamond Saint to the level of whatever manifesting class the character has, then determines power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly. If a character had more than one manifesting class before he became a metamind, he must decide to which class he adds the new level of Diamond Saint for the purpose of determining power points per day, powers known, and manifester level. Initiator Levels:Each Diamond Saint level adds to your Initiator level for your total Initiator level for Manuvers Known and Maximum level of Manuvers. Greater Psionic Weapon:(SU) At 1st level,a Dimond Mind gains the feat Greater Psionic Weapon. If you already have Greater Psionic Weapon, you gain access to one Psionic Feat of your choice. Speed of the Mind(EX):You gain an additional +10 to your Speed. Wisdom of Clarity(PS):You gain power points equal to the base cost of your highest level power whenever you complete a maneuver. Duration for the extra Power points is 1/round per lvl in Diamond Saint. You gain one use per day at lvl 3, and gain additional uses at 6th level, and 9th level. Strength of the Mind:You gain access to all powers on the egoist power list. Force of Mind(PS):You are able to use Ultra Blast 1/day, ML is equal to yuor Character level. Master Of Saints(SU):You are able to use your sword as if it was part of you. For One Minute 1/day you effectively make double the amount of attacks you are able to normally make. You strike not only with your sword but with your mind, the image of a ghostly second sword appears at each of your attacks. This is considered a force effect.This effect does not stack with the diamond mind manuever Time Stands Still. :D |
| ElecTech04-14-07, 07:55 PM | Just wanted to say thanks for helping the poor newb with his first PrC. Hopefully, it actaully works well. Here is to getting a DM to let me run it. ((Or if getting a player to run it.)) |
| AllisterH04-15-07, 02:55 AM | Does the Diamond Saint only give access to Diamond Mind manoeuvers? Seems kind of weird given that in ToB none of the other PrC have such limited access. True, the Bloodstorm Blade doesn't have access to any disciplines but it doesn't give any new stances or manoeuvers. |
| Hirochicken04-15-07, 04:26 AM | I like it. It's rather interesting. Carnivore did a good job helping you out with getting all cleaned up and skills added. I'd like to echo the question of what schools does a Diamond Saint have access to? Just Diamond Mind? Iron Heart, White Raven? |
| nobodez04-15-07, 09:27 AM | Shouldn't the requirements have "One Diamond Mind Strike and One Diamond Mind Stance", rather than just "One Diamond Mind Strike and One Diamond Mind"? As for the Schools, I'd say Diamond Mind (of course), as well as a school based on the ability score used for their Manifesting, Iron Heart for Wisdom (Ardents, PsiWars, and Divine Minds), White Raven for Charisma (Wilders), and Setting Sun for Intelligence (Psions, Erudites, and Lurks), or perhaps all four, which a fluff preference based on the Manifesting Ability Score. |
| carnivore04-15-07, 03:44 PM | Shouldn't the requirements have "One Diamond Mind Strike and One Diamond Mind Stance", rather than just "One Diamond Mind Strike and One Diamond Mind"? opps...typo....it should read "Stance"...corrected it;) As for the Schools, I'd say Diamond Mind (of course), as well as a school based on the ability score used for their Manifesting, Iron Heart for Wisdom (Ardents, PsiWars, and Divine Minds), White Raven for Charisma (Wilders), and Setting Sun for Intelligence (Psions, Erudites, and Lurks), or perhaps all four, which a fluff preference based on the Manifesting Ability Score. the hook for this PrC is that it only grants access to a single Martial Discipline.......it should be ok under general Adaptation guidelines, to allow it to be used for any Single Martial Discipline :D |
| ElecTech04-16-07, 01:07 AM | I posted this over at the CO forum so that I could see where any changes need to be made, slight changes need to be made to Wisdom of Clarity and Master of Saints to weaken them slightly to make it an overall more balanced class. Also needs to specify somewhere that all stances and manuevers gained from this class can be Diamond Mind only. ~ElecTech |
| TimeDaemon04-22-07, 07:38 PM | I very much like the seed of your idea here, but I have a couple of gripes that I would like to mention. First, neither of the gish classes in B9S only gets 7/10 casting. The casting of the Diamond Saint should be raised to 8/10 to balance with the others. Both gish classes in B9S get maneuvers known at every other level. Diamond Saint should be upgraded to the level of initiating of the other classes. The other gish classes have mechanics that allow a different recovery method for maneuvers. I would like to see that incorporated. I don't see the egoist discipline being the most typical of a diamond mind philosophy. I could see almost any of the other disciplines before the egoist. What about a "lose your psionic focus" mechanic? That is one of the signiture mechanics of psionics, and it would make this class different from the other gish classes. I see the consumate "brainiac" fighting styles being diamond mind, iron heart, and setting sun. these should all be accessable. |
| nobodez04-23-07, 12:24 AM | The other gish classes have mechanics that allow a different recovery method for maneuvers. I would like to see that incorporated. … What about a "lose your psionic focus" mechanic? That is one of the signiture mechanics of psionics, and it would make this class different from the other gish classes. The main problem with a focus based recovery is that there is no resource consumption, just a time consumption, though it's a good idea none the less (since unlike the Turn attempts of the Ruby Knight, it take time to regain Focus). Now that I think about it, focus is a good idea for a recovery mechanic, make it a swift action, and you must have a number of power points in reserve equal to the level of the maneuver, or perhaps equal to the level of the maneuver times 2, minus one (to closer tie it in with psionics). |
| TimeDaemon04-23-07, 02:45 AM | Since the base class recovery mechanics are not resource depleting aside from time, I think that this would not be outside of established bounds. The psychic focus is a unique aspect of psionics, and would bring this class closer to the psychic flavor and mechanic. There are many examples of this type of thing in psionics already, with things like metapsionic feats costing less than metamagic feats but using up a psionic focus, and so fits established flavor. I am a little less than fond of the Psionic Weapon requirement and Greater Psionic Weapon bonus feat. Neither of these feats is as useful as any of the diamond Mind strikes. The bonus of the Greater Psionic Weapon just upgrades a feat that is required, and so isn't even really a free feat. How about something that synergises psionics with martial adepts, like the feat that refocuses you when you use a strike? This could get ugly with a focus using recovery mechanic, but if both use a swift action, there seems to be limited area for abuse. It seems that the Master of the Saints capstone ability is not even as good as the Time Stands Still diamond mind maneuver, and doesn't stack with it. The Eternal Blades capstone ability is very similar, but better, and does stack. A capstone ability should really shine and be unique to the class. Something else would be better here. The wisdom of clarity mechanic is good, but how about changing it to give a number of PPs equal to a concentration check. This allows for some level of optimization, while not limiting the ability to an effective "you get one more use of your highest level power". I guess at low levels this may be powerful, (the first level you could get this ability is eighth, for a maximum gain of 32 PPs, with average being 22.5) it's value begins to taper at higher levels. I don't know, just brainstorming here. Maybe concentration check minus level of maneuver? This makes some lower level maneuvers still very useful. All in all, this shows great promise. |
| TimeDaemon04-23-07, 02:56 AM | How about a capstone ability that states, Temporal Acceleration- You gain the power Temporal Acceleration. This power gains the additional augmentation option outlined below. Augment- for 2 extra PPs, you may make melee attacks during the extra rounds granted by Temporal Acceleration. This seems to tame down the 1 min/day duration, but allows the Matrix like attack routines of the OP intent. This entire idea may be overpowered as writen in both the OP and this post. I'm sure that someone will tell me so. Hope this helps. |
| TimeDaemon04-23-07, 03:05 AM | How about substituting the entry requirement of being able to manifest 2nd level powers with the ability to manifest Hustle. The theme is maintained, the earliest level for entry stays the same, and it kind of sets the tone for the class better than just requiring 2nd level powers. What about skill level requirements? Concentrate seems to be the logical choice. |
| calronmoonflower04-23-07, 03:30 AM | How about a capstone ability that states, Temporal Acceleration- You gain the power Temporal Acceleration. This power gains the additional augmentation option outlined below. Augment- for 2 extra PPs, you may make melee attacks during the extra rounds granted by Temporal Acceleration. This seems to tame down the 1 min/day duration, but allows the Matrix like attack routines of the OP intent. This entire idea may be overpowered as writen in both the OP and this post. I'm sure that someone will tell me so. Hope this helps. 1. Please do not multipost. Just edit your last post if someone hasn't posted yet. 2. You cannot cause damage with attacks under Temperal Acceleration. |
| ElecTech04-23-07, 03:33 AM | How about substituting the entry requirement of being able to manifest 2nd level powers with the ability to manifest Hustle. The theme is maintained, the earliest level for entry stays the same, and it kind of sets the tone for the class better than just requiring 2nd level powers. What about skill level requirements? Concentrate seems to be the logical choice. I will take a look at your ideas some of them are good...and besides I did promise to update the class. |
| TimeDaemon04-23-07, 03:53 AM | Diamond Saint Five centuries ago Reshar the Sword Saint, bound the nine disciplines of fighting. One by one he mastered, till he came to the last style......."Diamond Mind". He studied with the master's of the style deep within the Adar Mountains of Sarlona, till he came to master the style just as he had mastered the ones before it. And he left them as he had came. The Kashlatar master's still stand there to this day. The masters of the Diamond Mind have become called Diamond Saints and have perfected the blending of the sword and the mind. Requirments: Base Attack Bonus: +4 Martial Manueers:Must Know One Diamond Mind Strike and One Diamond Mind Stance. Must be able to manifest Hustle Feats: Instant Clarity, Improved Initiative Skills: Concentrate 8 Special: Must have trained under the masters of Diamond Mind in Adar. Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d10. Class Skills The Diamond Saint’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Level BAB Fort Will Ref ML Stance Man Kn Man Red Ability 1 +1 +2 +2 0 1 1 0 Feat 2 +2 +3 +3 0 +1 ML 0 0 1 Speed of the Mind(+10 Speed) 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 +1 ML 0 1 0 Wisdom of Clarity(1/day) 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 +1 ML 0 0 1 Feat 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 0 1 0 Speed of the Mind(+20 Speed) 6 +6 +5 +5 +2 +1ML 0 0 1 Wisdom of Clarity(2/day) 7 +7 +5 +5 +2 +1ML 1 1 0 Strength of the Mind(access to Discipline Power List) 8 +8 +6 +6 +2 +1ML 0 0 1 Speed of the Mind(+30 Speed) 9 +9 +6 +6 +3 +1ML 0 1 0 Force of Mind,Wisdom of Clarity(3/day) 10 +10 +7 +7 +3 +1ML 0 0 0 Temporal Acceleration. Class Features All the following are class features of the Diamond Saint prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Diamond Saints gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor. Powers Known: At every level, except 1st and 5th level, a Diamond Saint gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, and so on). If a character had more than one manifesting class before he became a Diamond Saint, he must decide to which class he adds the new level of Diamond Saint for the purpose of determining power points per day, powers known, and manifester level. Initiator Levels: Each Diamond Saint level stacks with other Martial Adept levels for determining Initiator Level. Feat: At levels 1 and 4, you gain a bonus feat. This feat can be any psionic or fighter bonus feat. Speed of the Mind(EX): You gain a +10 enhancement bonus to your Speed. At level 5 this becomes +20, and at level 8 this becomes +30. This bonus stacks with Speed of Thought. Wisdom of Clarity(PS): Once per day when you initiate a maneuver, as a free action you may expend your psychic focus to gain temporary PPs equal to a concentration check minus the level of the maneuver initiated. Duration for the temporary Power points is 1/round per class level of the Diamond Saint. You gain one use per day at lvl 3, and gain additional uses at 6th level, and 9th level. Strength of the Mind:Choose a psion discipline. You gain access to all powers on that disciplines power list. Force of Mind(PS): You are able to use Ultra Blast 1/day, ML is equal to your Character level. Temporal Acceleration: You gain the power Temporal Acceleration. This power gains the additional augmentation option outlined below. Augment- for 2 extra PPs, you may make melee attacks during the extra rounds granted by Temporal Acceleration. |
| calronmoonflower04-23-07, 06:17 AM | Temporal Acceleration: You gain the power Temporal Acceleration. This power gains the additional augmentation option outlined below. Augment- for 2 extra PPs, you may make melee attacks during the extra rounds granted by Temporal Acceleration. You cannot cause damage with attacks under Temperal Acceleration. from the SRD, i highlighter the critical text. Temporal Acceleration Psychoportation Level: Psion/wilder 6 Display: None Manifesting Time: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 round (in apparent time); see text Power Points: 11 You enter another time frame, speeding up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at normal speed. You are free to act for 1 round of apparent time. You can manifest powers, cast spells, move, or perform other types of actions, subject to the restrictions outlined below. While your temporal acceleration is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and powers. This means you cannot target a creature with any attack or power. However, a power you manifest that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of your temporal acceleration has its normal effect on creatures in the area once this power ends. You can affect an unattended object but not an object held, carried, or worn by another creature. You are undetectable by any means while your temporal acceleration lasts. While under the effect of this power, you cannot enter an area protected by a null psionics field or by a power or spell that neutralizes high-level powers or spells. Normal and magical fire, cold, acid, and the like can still harm you. When your temporal acceleration expires, you resume acting during your current turn in the standard time frame. You are shaken for 1 round upon your return to the standard time frame. Splintered or partitioned minds within your own mind, such as might be in effect through the use of powers such as schism, are not temporally speeded up, even if your second mind manifested this power (your primary mind gains the benefit, while your second mind remains stuck in the standard time frame). Manifesting this power is a swift action, like manifesting a quickened power, and it counts toward the normal limit of one quickened power per round. You cannot manifest this power when it isn’t your turn. Augment: For every 4 additional power points you spend, this power’s duration (in apparent time) increases by 1 round. |
| TimeDaemon04-23-07, 06:46 AM | While the highlighted text may be relevant to most manifesters, it is not when designing new classes. As you may note, my previous post states that the temporal acceleration power is added to your reptoir with the addition of a new, never before seen augmentation that allows melee attacks that cause damage. This may seem to be overpowered, but when compared to the OPs capstone ability to double the characters attacks per round for a whole minute, once per day, this extra round or two of attacks will not add up to as much damage potential. This is combined with a PP cost not present in the OP ability, or the diamond mind maneuver Time Stands Still, makes it at first glance to be close to balanced. The fact that it does allow an accelerated damage outlay may be a balance issue, but this has nothing to do with whether a power can be modified with the addition of extra abilities as a capstone to a home brewed PrC. The capstone ability of the Eternal Blade does almost this exactly, once per day, and does not require an expenditure of PPs, so I do not think that, for a brainstorming excercise, this is too out of bounds. Sure, you are right. The usual Temporal Acceleration does not allow this. But I was not refering to the usual Temporal Acceleration. Thank you for the help. |
| calronmoonflower04-23-07, 06:55 AM | Huh... Sorry for misinterpreting it. You should spell out that the attack cause damage and are not normally available. It would keep people like me from misreading it. |
| TimeDaemon04-23-07, 07:05 AM | No problem, it is late, and I guess that my post didn't exactly spell it out clearly. |
| Archangel_Arcanis04-23-07, 02:46 PM | Wisdom of Clarity(PS): Once per day when you initiate a maneuver, as a free action you may expend your psychic focus to regain PPs equal to a concentration check minus the level of the maneuver initiated. Duration for the extra Power points is 1/round per class level of the Diamond Saint. You gain one use per day at lvl 3, and gain additional uses at 6th level, and 9th level. are the PP gained treated as temp or does it just refill the pool. Bold line is what is causing the confusion for me. Also does it have to be used while initiating a manuver or can it be done out of combat as well. I like the class over all since i love psi and ToB. Also what is the intended entry for it since the requirements as written seem to suggest odd progression maybe its just me. edit to add my entries Psi 4/ WB 3 later entry Psi 3/ WB 4 same Wdr 4/WB1 MAD somewhat Wdr 4/SS2 MAD and Slight delay PW 4/SS2 wis to ac and PP PW 4/WB1 good entry lacks PP though. |
| TimeDaemon04-23-07, 03:12 PM | It was meant to be temporary PPs. I will fix it. ElecTech: Sorry about hijacking your thread. I have been thinking about this exact thing for quite some time. My ideas would have been a little different, but you started it, so I just ran with what you gave me. If you would rather, I can start my own thread;) |
| CrimsonDeath04-24-07, 02:56 AM | Hmm... Temporal Acceleration with the ability to attack may be kind of nasty if the DM sticks to the flavor of the power. It does say that you're moving so quickly that everyone else appears to be standing still. Since you normally can't affect anyone, it doesn't really matter, but would people get Dexterity and Dodge bonuses to AC against these attacks? Would they get Reflex saves? Would they even be considered to have a Dexterity score during the Temporal Acceleration's virtual rounds? This could get nasty if a Warblade/Diamond Saint knows Raging Mongoose or Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip. And what happens if a Psychic Warrior takes the class? He winds up with a half dozen powers he can't manifest because they're too high a level. Does it just suck to be him? |
| calronmoonflower04-24-07, 04:46 AM | No problem, it is late, and I guess that my post didn't exactly spell it out clearly. After I reread it I think it does. I can be quite oblivious and dunderheaded from time to time. |
| TimeDaemon04-24-07, 10:54 AM | You know, with a little more thought on the matter, I am not sure how well Temporal Acceleration would work. I was just trying to suggest something that fits the Matrix like feel of the OP without the 1 minute duration. Probably something better out there. |
| Batshido04-24-07, 11:51 AM | You know, with a little more thought on the matter, I am not sure how well Temporal Acceleration would work. I was just trying to suggest something that fits the Matrix like feel of the OP without the 1 minute duration. Probably something better out there. What if you just write up a new power and make it be basically a class ability. Something with a swift manifesting time that allows a free standard action during which all opponents are denied their Dex bonus to AC. Possibly with an augment that allows for more attacks at ever increasing penalties. |
| Archangel_Arcanis04-24-07, 11:52 AM | Well as to the PsiWar powers known issue i think they would be able to use them if they had the points to do so. The table in the XPH is just for their ability to learn them normally and if you learn them a different way what is to stop you from using them if you have the PP to do so. Perhaps give them Time stands Still as a bonus maneuver for lvl 10 since it would only be 2 levels early to a strait initiator and 4 lvls early for the Diamond mind. |
| CrimsonDeath04-24-07, 03:15 PM | Well as to the PsiWar powers known issue i think they would be able to use them if they had the points to do so. The table in the XPH is just for their ability to learn them normally and if you learn them a different way what is to stop you from using them if you have the PP to do so. The reason I ask is because several classes grant powers known (such as the Elocator) and specifically describe what happens if the character does not have a sufficient manifester level to manifest such powers-- typically, they are unavailable until the character's manifester level is high enough; in fact, I haven't seen an exception. Either way, it's probably best if the Diamond Soul specifically describes what happens in such a situation. |
| Archangel_Arcanis04-24-07, 03:31 PM | agreed on that point they should state exactly what would happen if they are unable to manifest them. and the levels I'm assuming will be the same as they are in the class so that they won't have to be rehashed for resilient spheres ect. |
| Archangel_Arcanis05-03-07, 12:33 PM | :bump: wanted discussion on this to continue and hopefully it will be finished before my next game starts. |
| ElecTech08-20-07, 03:00 AM | Hopefully some people found this interesting, have a horrible tendency to walk away from unfinished product. Anyways it would seem in this case that the cost would remain the same ((It would limit issues arousing from multi use since Psychic Warrier's have such little PP to begin with and keep ind mind that the highest you could ever go manifester wise using this class would be 17 ((not counting practiced manifester)))) |
| Archangel_Arcanis08-20-07, 12:03 PM | I am actually using a modified version of this in a game right now. I had chnaged some of it since it is a high powered war game. so far our characters at lvl 4 killed 2 cr11's and at lvl6 killed 2 war trolls with ac's so high we couldn't hit them with weapons. I like it so far and i think its original version would balance with standard but it had to be changed for our game. |
| Katash08-25-07, 03:52 PM | Guys Here’s a slightly different version of Diamond Saint re-jigged to focus a little more on manifesting rather than fighting, but still with combat power, I think it’s flavour suits a Psi-Initiator concept. When creating the class abilities I used the JPM as a Guide who gets free uses of empower and quicken spell feats, Along with the True Necromancer- who gets Necromantic Prowess (see Diamond Endowment). Yes I know Necromantic Prowess only applies to one spell school but the trus Necromancer doesn’t need to use an action to use it. Like the JPM the Diamond Saint must cast after an attack. (obviously the JPM version was for DD spells where I figured here it would be better for Save or Die powers.) Five centuries ago Reshar the Sword Saint, bound the nine disciplines of fighting. One by one he mastered, till he came to the last style......."Diamond Mind". He studied with the master's of the style deep within the Adar Mountains of Sarlona, till he came to master the style just as he had mastered the ones before it. And he left them as he had came. The Kalashtar master's still stand there to this day. The masters of the Diamond Mind have become called Diamond Saints and have perfected the blending of the sword and the mind. Requirements: Base Attack Bonus: +4 Martial Manuvers: Must Know One Diamond Mind Strike and One Diamond Mind Stance. Must be able to manifest 2nd level powers Feats: Instant Clarity, Improved Initiative, Psionic Endowment Skills: Concentrate 8 Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d10. Class Skills The Diamond Saint’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Level BAB Fort Ref Will Man. Known Man. Readied Stances Known Special Manifesting 1 +1 +2 0 +2 1 0 1 Diamond Endowment 2 +2 +3 0 +3 0 0 0 Speed of the mind (+10 ft) +1level manifester class 3 +3 +3 +1 +3 1 1 0 Wisdom of Clarity (1/day) +1level manifester class 4 +4 +4 +1 +4 0 0 0 Gtr Diamond Endowment +1level manifester class 5 +5 +4 +1 +4 1 0 0 Unconditional Power, Speed of the mind (+20ft) 6 +6 +5 +2 +5 0 1 1 Wisdom of Clarity (2/day) +1level manifester class 7 +7 +5 +2 +5 1 0 0 Open Pathway +1level manifester class 8 +8 +6 +2 +6 0 0 0 Force of Mind, Speed of the mind (+30 ft) +1level manifester class 9 +9 +6 +3 +6 1 1 0 Wisdom of Clarity (3/day) +1level manifester class 10 +10 +7 +3 +7 0 0 0 Temporal Acceleration +1level manifester class Class Features All the following are class features of the Diamond Saint prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Diamond Saints gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor. Powers Known: At every level, except 1st and 5th level, a Diamond Saint gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, and so on). If a character had more than one manifesting class before he became a Diamond Saint, he must decide to which class he adds the new level of Diamond Saint for the purpose of determining power points per day, powers known, and manifester level. Initiator Levels: Each Diamond Saint level stacks with other Martial Adept levels for determining Initiator Level. A dimond mind gains new manuveres as noted in the table, he may pick from the Diamond Mind or iron Heart Disciplines. At level 6 you mind has become so strong that almost nothing can shut down your will. You gain unconditional power feat. Diamond Endowment: The supreme concentration and force of Will a Diamond Saint achieves means his powers are incredibly hard to resist. At first level if you manifest a power following the use of a martial manuvere, that power is manifested with a +1 to the save DC. This bonus inceases to +2 at level 4. This ability stacks with the Psionic and Gtr Psionic Endowment feats. You may use this ability once per encounter at level one a twice per encounter at level 4. Wisdom of Clarity(PS): Once per day when you initiate a maneuver, as a free action you may expend your psychic focus to gain temporary PPs equal to a concentration check minus the level of the maneuver initiated. Duration for the temporary Power points is 1/round per class level of the Diamond Saint. You gain one use per day at lvl 3, and gain additional uses at 6th level, and 9th level. Open Pathway: Your strict training and dedication to understanding movement in space and the art insight allows you to open your mind to previously undiscovered powers. Choose a between the Psychportation or Telepathy disciplines. You gain access to all powers on that disciplines power list and may take any of them as a known power when you gain manifester levels from now on. Force of Mind: You can use the Ultrtablast power as a Psi-like ability 1/day ML Equal to your BAB. Temporal Acceleration: You learn the Temporal Acceleration Power with the following augmentation. +2 pp you can make attacks against your foes while under the effect of this power. Enemies are denied their Dexterity bonus. Any good? |
| Katash09-05-07, 05:00 PM | Guys, I know it changed the flavor a bit but is the above version of the Diamond Saint Overpowerd? Cheers. |
| Archangel_Arcanis09-06-07, 12:09 PM | could you clean up the table some to make it more readable i'm getting a headache just trying to understand it. And also you might want to explicitely state what lvl power ultrablast is when you get it for free as it will have an effect on when PsiWar could use it and its cost. |
| Katash09-06-07, 04:54 PM | Bolded the Headings but sorry I suck at tables:D |
| Katash09-18-07, 08:37 AM | Kay, sorry to take so long but i finally got it to look readable: also had to power the class down a little because the few responses I got on the char op boards said it was broken, ESPECIALLY the temporal acceleration ability. I think it scales better against the JPM Whadaya reckon? Diamond Saint Five centuries ago Reshar the Sword Saint, bound the nine disciplines of fighting. One by one he mastered, till he came to the last style......."Diamond Mind". He studied with the master's of the style deep within the Adar Mountains of Sarlona, till he came to master the style just as he had mastered the ones before it. And he left them as he had came. The Kalashtar master's still stand there to this day. The masters of the Diamond Mind have become called Diamond Saints and have perfected the blending of the sword and the mind. Requirements: Base Attack Bonus: +4 Martial Manuvers: Must Know One Diamond Mind Strike and One Diamond Mind Stance. Must be able to manifest 2nd level powers Feats: Instant Clarity, Improved Initiative, Psionic Endowment Skills: Concentrate 8 Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d10. Class Skills The Diamond Saint’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Level BAB Fort Ref Will Man.Kwn Man.Red StancesKnown Special 1.....+1......+2.......0......+2........ 1........0........1 Diamond Endowment 2.....+2......+3.......0......+3........ 0........0........0 Speed of the mind (+10 ft) +1level manifester class 3.....+3......+3......+1......+3........ 1........1........0 Wisdom of Clarity (1/day) +1level manifester class 4.....+4......+4......+1......+4........ 0........0........0 Gtr Diamond Endowment +1level manifester class 5.....+5......+4......+1......+4........ 1........0........0 6.....+6......+5......+2......+5........ 0........1........1 Wisdom of Clarity (2/day) +1level manifester class 7.....+7......+5......+2......+5........ 1........0........0 +1level manifester class 8.....+8......+6......+2......+6........ 0........0........0 Speed of the mind (+20 ft) +1level manifester class 9.....+9......+6......+3......+6........ 1........1........ 0 Wisdom of Clarity (3/day) +1level manifester class 10...+10.....+7......+3......+7........0 ........0........0 Island in Time +1level manifester class Class Features All the following are class features of the Diamond Saint prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Diamond Saints gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor. Powers Known: At every level, except 1st and 5th level, a Diamond Saint gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, and so on). If a character had more than one manifesting class before he became a Diamond Saint, he must decide to which class he adds the new level of Diamond Saint for the purpose of determining power points per day, powers known, and manifester level. Initiator Levels: Each Diamond Saint level stacks with other Martial Adept levels for determining Initiator Level. A dimond mind gains new manuveres as noted in the table, he may pick from the Diamond Mind or iron Heart Disciplines. Diamond Endowment: The supreme concentration and force of Will a Diamond Saint achieves means his powers are incredibly hard to resist. At first level if you manifest a power following the use of a martial manuvere, that power is manifested with a +1 to the save DC. This bonus inceases to +2 at level 4. This ability stacks with the Psionic and Gtr Psionic Endowment feats. You may use this ability once per encounter at level one a twice per encounter at level 4. Wisdom of Clarity: Once per day when you initiate a maneuver, as a free action you may expend your psychic focus to gain temporary PPs equal to a concentration check minus the level of the maneuver initiated. Duration for the temporary Power points is 1/round per class level of the Diamond Saint. You gain one use per day at lvl 3, and gain additional uses at 6th level, and 9th level. Island in Time When you reach tenth level in this class your extrordinary reflexes allow you to react while others stand dumfounded at your speed. Once per encounter while you are psionically focused, you can take your turn as an immediate action. Using this ability does not change your initiative count, and you can use all your actions as normal. For example, if your initiative count is 15, you could act normally, use this ability to act again on initiative count 14, then act normally on the following round on initiative count 15. I know Island in time ain't really origonal but it fits an I got nothin better:confused: Thoughts? Cheers. |
| sir_argenon02-18-08, 04:27 AM | sorry for the necromancy.. i just really would like a final consensus on this prc! i like island in time. it is a lot less powerful than the other 10th level abilites, and it feels more balanced. maybe you can call the ability "Saint's Time" to make it unique. you also forgot the writeup for the ability "speed of the mind" in the class features section. maybe knock the hd down to a d8.. i dont think there are any psy prc's with a d10. finally, the "wisdom of clarity" ability seems like it could get very overpowered to me.. people could max out their concentration, and end up with a +30 modifier pretty easily. why not just make it a permanent recovery of PP euqal to diamond saint level, usable at the same intervals as was suggested above, but only usable if you are in a diamond mind stance, and you blow your focus to make a dc 20 concentration check to get the recovery??? how does those suggestions sound? |
| Scion of Coldshard02-18-08, 03:27 PM | Fun thread ;) Not sure how I missed it as it looks to have been around a long while and bounced from the grave multiple times.. hmm.. I think that I would modify the original as follows: Diamond Saint Five centuries ago Reshar the Sword Saint, bound the nine disciplines of fighting. One by one he mastered, till he came to the last style......."Diamond Mind". He studied with the master's of the style deep within the Adar Mountains of Sarlona, till he came to master the style just as he had mastered the ones before it. And he left them as he had came. The Kashlatar master's still stand there to this day. The masters of the Diamond Mind have become called Diamond Saints and have perfected the blending of the physical and the mind. Requirments: Base Attack Bonus: +3 Martial Maneuvers: Must know at least 2 Diamond Mind maneuvers and one Diamond Mind stance. Must have a manifester level of at least 4. Feats: Instant Clarity, Speed of Thought, and one of the following: Psionic Fist, Psionic Shot, or Psionic Weapon Skills: Autohypnosis 5 ranks, Concentration 5 ranks, Knowledge (Psionics) 5 ranks, Martial Lore 5 ranks Special: Must have trained under the masters of Diamond Mind in Adar. Must have a weapon made of Deep Crystal to use with this class (Melee weapon if you are using the Psionic Weapon entry, ranged weapon if you are using the Psionic Shot entry, or a Deep Crystal Gauntlet if you are using the Psionic Fist entry). Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d8. Class Skills The Diamond Saint’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all) (Int), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points: 6 + Int modifier. Level BAB Fort Will Ref ML Stance Man. Kn. Man. Red. Ability 1 +1 +0 +0 0 1 1 0 Clarity of Mind and Form 2 +2 +0 +0 0 +1 ML 0 0 1 Speed of the Mind 1, Force of Mind 3 +3 +1 +1 +1 +1 ML 0 1 0 Wisdom of Clarity 4 +4 +1 +1 +1 +1 ML 0 0 1 Mind in Blade 5 +5 +1 +1 +1 1 1 0 Speed of the Mind 2 6 +6 +2 +2 +2 +1ML 0 0 1 Path of the Diamond Mind 7 +7 +2 +2 +2 +1ML 0 1 0 - 8 +8 +2 +2 +2 +1ML 0 0 1 Speed of the Mind 3 9 +9 +3 +3 +3 0 1 0 Master of the Diamond Saints 10 +10 +3 +3 +3 +1ML 1 0 1 - Class Features All the following are class features of the Diamond Saint prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Diamond Saints gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor. Powers Known: At every level, except 1st, 5th and 9th level, a Diamond Saint gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of Diamond Saint to the level of whatever manifesting class the character has, then determines power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly. If a character had more than one manifesting class before he became a Diamond Saint, he must decide to which class he adds the new level of Diamond Saint for the purpose of determining power points per day, powers known, and manifester level. Initiator Levels: Each Diamond Saint level adds to your Initiator level for your total Initiator level for Maneuvers Known and Maximum level of Maneuvers. Maneuvers Known, Maneuvers Readied, and Stances: Your recovery method is the same as the recovery method used for the Diamond Mind maneuver you used to enter this class. All maneuvers and stances gained through this class must be chosen from the Diamond Mind discipline. Clarity of Mind and Form (Ex): At 1st level you gain several abilities while holding your Deep Crystal weapon in hand and ready to use. 1) Gain an insight bonus to saving throws equal to 2+1/3 your class level (round down). 2) While psionically focused you gain a competence bonus on concentration checks equal to half your class level. 3) Gain the next feat in the feat tree path you used to enter this class as a bonus feat (psionic weapon -> greater psionic weapon -> deep impact; psionic shot -> greater psionic shot -> fell shot; psionic fist -> greater psionic fist -> unavoidable strike). If you already have each feat in the path gain any other [Psionic] feat of your choice that you meet the prerequisites for. 4) If you entered this class using psionic fist or psionic weapon then whenever you charge your Deep Crystal weapon with 2 pp it gains 3 dice of damage instead of 2. If you entered this class using psionic shot then you may change the range of any Diamond Mind maneuver that takes 1 standard action to initiate from Range: Melee Attack to Range: Ranged Attack by increasing the initiation action to 1 full-round action. Speed of the Mind(Ex): At 2nd level, as long as you have a Deep Crystal weapon in hand your Speed of Thought feat improves by 10' (20' at level 5, 30' at level 8) and you also gain a bonus to initiative checks of +1 (+2 at level 5, +3 at level 8). Force of Mind (Ps): At 2nd level, you are able to manifest as a psi-like ability powers from the Egoist class list. At level 2 you may manifest each 1st level power 1 time a day. At each even level beyond this you gain the ability to manifest the next level of powers 1 time a day and an extra use of each of the previous levels, max 3 (ie at level 10 you would be able to use 5th level powers from the Egoist class list 1 time per day each, 4th level powers 2 times, 3rd level powers 3 times, 2nd level powers 3 times, and 1st level powers 3 times). However, the power Metamorphosis is not gained through this ability. Wisdom of Clarity (Ps): At 3rd level, you may use your Instant Clarity feat any number of times in a day. In addition, on any round where you use a Diamond Mind maneuver and regain focus using Instant Clarity you gain a number of temp pp equal to your class level until the end of your next turn (these temp pp do not stack with other temp pp, even others gained from this ability). You only gain these pps when in combat with a legitimate foe, in general summoning a creature to fight it or friendly sparing with someone will not activate this ability. Mind in Blade (Su): At 4th level you may use your Deep Crystal weapon as a cognizance crystal. By meditating for 24 hours the weapon becomes attuned to you, you may only have a single weapon attuned to you at a time and once attuned you must use this weapon for the other benefits of this class that require a Deep Crystal weapon. You may then store 1 pp +2pp per class level in the weapon as normal for a cognizance crystal. You may use these points to charge the weapon as normal and any pp used weapons storage to charge the attack also grant an equal bonus to your attack rolls with that weapon until it discharges. Path of the Diamond Mind: At 6th level, you may be in two Diamond Mind stances simultaneously. Each is started as normal and anything that causes one to turn off causes them both to turn off. Master Of Diamond Saints (Su): At 9th level you gain access to the most powerful artform of the Diamond Mind school, Time Stands Still. You gain this maneuver as a bonus readied maneuver but it does not refresh as your other maneuvers do, it only refreshes after 5 minutes of exercise so that you may only use it once per combat and refresh your mind and body between uses. If you gain access to Time Stands Still as a maneuver from a class granted maneuver you may ready it as normal allowing you two have two readied at once (normally having the same maneuver readied more than once is not possible). While you have both readied you act continuously as though you had a Haste spell cast on you (caster level of twice your class level for purposes of dispelling, you may put it back into place on your turn as a free action). You may not use Time Stands Still on two consecutive turns. Swordsage 2/Psychic Warrior 4/Diamond Saint 10 (28 point buy) Str 24 (14 base +6 enhancement +4 level) Dex 16 (12 base +4 enhancement) Con 18 (14 base +4 enhancement) Int 10 Wis 22 (16 base +6 enhancement) Cha 8 Abilities: Swordsage – Quick to Act +1, Discipline Focus (), AC Bonus Maneuvers Known (12) 1st 7, 2nd 1, 3rd 1, 4th 1, 5th 1, 6th 1 Maneuvers Readied (9) Stances (5) 1st 3, 3rd 1, 5th 1 Psychic Warrior – 2 Psionic/Fighter bonus feats Manifester level 15 Powers (11) 1st 3, 2nd 3, 3rd 3, 4th 2 Pp 80 = 35 base + 0.5*15*6 Diamond Saint – Clarity of Mind and Form (+5 insight bonus to saves, bonus feat, +5 competence bonus to concentration checks, special bonus) Speed of the Mind (+30’ to Speed of Thought, +3 initiative bonus) Force of Mind (Psi-like abilities (ml 20): Thicken skin 3/day, animal affinity 3/day, chameleon 3/day, empathic transfer 3/day, ectoplasmic form 3/day, hustle 3/day, psychic vampire 2/day, psionic revivify 1/day, psychofeedback 1/day, restore extremity 1/day) Wisdom of Clarity (unlimited uses of instant clarity feat, temp pp on special) Mind in Blade (cognizance crystal 21 pp, bonus on attack roll) Path of the Diamond Mind (2 diamond stances at once) Master of the Diamond Saints (Time Stands Still 1/combat) Skills: (30 swordsage, 6 psychic warrior, 60 diamond mind) Feats: Psionic X (1st), Speed of Thought (pw 1st), Practiced Manifester (3rd), Instant Clarity (pw 2nd), (6th), (9th), (12th), (15th) Items (200k): Str +6 enhancement, Dex +4 enhancement, Con +4 enhancement, wis +6 enhancement Deep Crystal weapon +5 Mithral light armor +5 AC: 29 (10 base +6 wis +3 dex +10 armor) Attack: +26 (13 BAB +7 str +5 weapon +1 weapon focus) Saves: F +11 (7 base +4 con), R +10 (7 base +3 dex), W +13 (7 base +6 wis) Swordsage 8/Psychic warrior 8 (SPPSSPPSSPPSSPPS) 28 point buy) Str 24 (14 base +6 enhancement +4 str) Dex 16 (12 base +4 enhancement) Con 18 (14 base +4 enhancement) Int 10 Wis 22 (16 base +6 enhancement) Cha 8 Abilities: Swordsage – Quick to Act +2, Discipline Focus (Weapon focus, insightful strike, defensive stance), AC Bonus, Sense magic Maneuvers Known (13) 1st 6, 2nd 2, 3rd 1, 4th 2, 5th 1, 6th 1 Maneuvers Readied (7) Stances (3) 1st 2, 3rd 1 Psychic Warrior – 4 Psionic/Fighter bonus feats Manifester level 12 Powers (8) 1st 3, 2nd 3, 3rd 2 Pp 54 = 19 base + 0.5*12*6 Skills: (60 swordsage, 16 psychic warrior) Feats: (1st), (pw 1st), (3rd), (pw 2nd), (6th), (9th), (pw 3rd), (12th), (15th), (pw 4th) (practiced manifester somewhere) Items (200k): Str +6 enhancement, Dex +4 enhancement, Con +4 enhancement, wis +6 enhancement Deep crystal weapon +5 Mithral light armor +5 AC: 29 (10 base +6 wis +3 dex +10 armor) Attack: +26 (13 BAB +7 str +5 weapon +1 weapon focus) Saves: F +12 (8 base +4 con), R +11 (8 base +3 dex), W +14 (8 base +6 wis) edited: Ok, quite a few little changes all through there ;) edited again: and some test builds put up. |
| archangel_arcanis_0702-18-08, 04:36 PM | i like the variation on the original that have worked up, but after glancing over it i saw a few items that looked wrong. 1. it is a PrC you don't get x4 skill points for the first level. that is only for first character level period. 2. 6+int is a bit much for skill points i think that 4 should be enough just like all the other ToB classes, excluding the monk like ones. 3.mind and blade seems a bit schizophrenic, it doesn't know who is talking to it or what it should do. 4. Deep crystal focus seems a bit limiting. I like the flavor of it and it should be encouraged but not mandated. 5. force of mind should just add a few powers to your known powers rather than as psi-like with awkward limitations. 6. wisdom of clarity is nice but too easily abusable with a concentration based maneuver and a swift or immediate action power or even vigor. just my 2cp i'll try to make suggestions after i get home from work rather than just criticisms. |
| sir_argenon02-18-08, 05:02 PM | here's my go at this. i took a bit from a few different versions, trying to make one that is balanced.. :cool: Diamond Saint – REV.B Five centuries ago Reshar the Sword Saint, bound the nine disciplines of fighting. One by one he mastered, till he came to the last style......."Diamond Mind". He studied with the master's of the style deep within the Adar Mountains of Sarlona, til he came to master the style just as he had mastered the ones before it. And he left them as he had came. The Kashlatar masters still stand there to this day. The masters of the Diamond Mind have become called Diamond Saints and have perfected the blending of the sword and the mind. Requirements: Base Attack Bonus: +3 Martial Maneuvers: Must Know One Diamond Mind Strike and One Diamond Mind Stance. Must be able to manifest 2nd level Powers Feats: Instant Clarity, Speed of Thought Skills: Concentration 8, Knowledge (Psionics) 4, Knowledge (History) 2. Hit Die: d8. Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level.) The Diamond Saint’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Psionics) (Int), Martial Lore (Int), Psicraft (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex). Level BAB Fort Will Ref ML Man Kn Man Ready Stance Ability 1 +1 +2 +2 0 1 0 0 Psionic Weapon 2 +2 +3 +3 0 +1 ML 0 0 0 Enhanced Speed of Thought (+10 Speed) 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 +1 ML 1 0 0 Power of Clarity(1/day) 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 +1 ML 0 1 0 - 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 1 0 1 Diamond Endowment +1 6 +6 +5 +5 +2 +1ML 0 0 0 Power of Clarity(2/day) 7 +7 +5 +5 +2 +1ML 1 0 0 Psychic Renewal 8 +8 +6 +6 +2 +1ML 0 1 0 Enhanced Speed of Thought (+20 Speed), Diamond Endowment +2 9 +9 +6 +6 +3 +1ML 1 0 1 Power of Clarity(3/day) 10 +10 +7 +7 +3 +1ML 0 0 0 Time of the Master Saint(1/day). Class Features All the following are class features of the Diamond Saint prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Diamond Saints gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor. Powers Known: At every level, except 1st, and 5th level, a Diamond Saint gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of Diamond Saint to the level of whatever manifesting class the character has, then determines power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly. If a character had more than one manifesting class before he became a Diamond Saint, he must decide to which class he adds the new level of Diamond Saint for the purpose of determining power points per day, powers known, and manifester level. Maneuvers: At each odd level, you gain a new maneuver from the Diamond Mind or Iron Heart disciplines. You must meet a maneuver’s prerequisite to learn it. Each Diamond Saint level adds to your Initiator level to determine your total Initiator level and your highest level maneuvers known. Stances Known: At 5th and 9th levels, you gain a new stance from the Diamond Mind or Iron Heart disciplines. You must meet a stance’s prerequisite to learn it. Psionic Weapon:(SU) At 1st level,a Diamond Mind gains the feat Psionic Weapon. If you already have Psionic Weapon, then you gain access to the feat Greater Psionic Weapon. Enhanced Speed of Thought (EX):At 2nd level, when psionically focused, You gain an additional +10 to your Speed. At 8th level you gain another +10. These bonuses stack with the bonus from the speed of Thought feat. Power of Clarity(PS):At 3rd level you can gain a power point recovery equal to your levels in Diamond Saint. To get this recovery, as a Swift Action you must expend your psionic focus, and make a successful DC 20 Concentration check. You gain one use per day at lvl 3, and gain additional uses at 6th level, and 9th level. Diamond Endowment: (EX) The supreme concentration and force of Will a Diamond Saint achieves means his powers are incredibly hard to resist. At 4th level if you manifest a power while you are in a Diamond Mind Stance, that power is manifested with a +1 to the save DC. This bonus increases to +2 at level 8. This ability stacks with the Psionic and Greater Psionic Endowment feats. You may use this ability once per encounter at level 5, and twice per encounter at level 8. Psychic Renewal: (EX) At 7th level You gain the feat Psychic Renewal for free. If you already have this feat then you do not gain any other bonus. Time of the Master Saint(SU): When you reach tenth level in this class, your mind and your extraordinary reflexes mesh together to allow you to react while others stand dumbfounded at your speed. Once per day while you are psionically focused, you can expend your focus to exectute the capstone maneuver of the Diamond Mind discipline Time Stands Still. You can also Augment this ability psionically by spending 15 power points to use this ability as an Immediate Action (limited by ML). If you also gain the Maneuver Time Stands Still, it may be readied and used as any other maneuver would be, and this ability has no effect on it. any comments? |
| Scion of Coldshard02-18-08, 05:11 PM | i like the variation on the original that have worked up, but after glancing over it i saw a few items that looked wrong. 1. it is a PrC you don't get x4 skill points for the first level. that is only for first character level period. 2. 6+int is a bit much for skill points i think that 4 should be enough just like all the other ToB classes, excluding the monk like ones. 3.mind and blade seems a bit schizophrenic, it doesn't know who is talking to it or what it should do. 4. Deep crystal focus seems a bit limiting. I like the flavor of it and it should be encouraged but not mandated. 5. force of mind should just add a few powers to your known powers rather than as psi-like with awkward limitations. 6. wisdom of clarity is nice but too easily abusable with a concentration based maneuver and a swift or immediate action power or even vigor. just my 2cp i'll try to make suggestions after i get home from work rather than just criticisms. I am assuming that this was directed at me ;) 1. Copied from an earlier draft on the thread, didnt realize it was even there, it has been removed. 2. Swordsage is one of the two easy routes into the class. They lose a lot of maneuvers known relative to the normal swordsage progression. Warblade is the other easy route in and they take a big hit to the hd relative to the normal progression. 3. Not sure what you mean here. 4. Deep crystal was the only psionically active substance I could find for weapons, are there other options? 5. I like psi-like abilities for classes that are losing manifester levels, it makes me smile ;) 6. What sort of abuses are you thinking about here? They will likely be multi-round strategies though since between a maneuver and a swfit action that doesnt leave much... |
| archangel_arcanis_0702-18-08, 05:32 PM | ok lets see what answers i can get in before leaving. skill points: 6 just seems like too many you will likely enter from psion, but aren't required to, and will have int based manifesting so this will result in 10+ skill points per level easy. You don't have a need for that many and will be stepping on the toes of skill monkeys. mind and blade: it just seems like it is trying to do too many things in one ability. i think that it should be broken up and spread out over multiple levels. deep crystal: you are all but requiring that a character use a deep crystal weapon with several abilities being keyed off of it. This hurts anyone who had to deal with damage reduction as there aren't many creates with dr/crystal. It also makes them vulnerable to shatter. now a low level cleric or wizard can negate a significant amount of your class abilities not to mention disarming you. force of mind and its descendant: to each his own but potentially problematic with giving too many powers. abuses: expend focus for X nightmare blade, recover focus with instant clarity, spend free PP you just generated before the end of your next turn. Vigor is the one that comes to mind to get 50 temp hp if you need it or a low level buff that has been quickened. Or real cheese is using them with bestow power to get real ones, this part is mostly for out of combat to recharge your PP to full for the cost of a few rounds just use a condition maneuver rather than one that damages your target. |
| Scion of Coldshard02-18-08, 05:49 PM | ok lets see what answers i can get in before leaving. ok ;) skill points: 6 just seems like too many you will likely enter from psion, but aren't required to, and will have int based manifesting so this will result in 10+ skill points per level easy. You don't have a need for that many and will be stepping on the toes of skill monkeys. Well, I dont think that any class should have less than 4 base skill points a level to begin with.. so the chance of entry through swordsage is something that I like to consider ;) I'll do a few basic writeups and see how it feels though. mind and blade: it just seems like it is trying to do too many things in one ability. i think that it should be broken up and spread out over multiple levels. I could break the ability up into multiple abilities, but why spread them out over levels? Two out of the three abilities are more or less minor after all. deep crystal: you are all but requiring that a character use a deep crystal weapon with several abilities being keyed off of it. This hurts anyone who had to deal with damage reduction as there aren't many creates with dr/crystal. It also makes them vulnerable to shatter. now a low level cleric or wizard can negate a significant amount of your class abilities not to mention disarming you. Get the crystal sword enchanted and you wont have to worry about shatter anymore, or at least no more than the next guy. Getting extra attack bonus and dice of damage should make up for loses from DR. ;) I know that several of the abilities require deep crystal, are there any other psionically resonant materials that weapons could be made out of? force of mind and its descendant: to each his own but potentially problematic with giving too many powers. A few lower-level psi-like abilities at higher levels are unlikely to unbalance the game in my opinion. abuses: expend focus for X nightmare blade, recover focus with instant clarity, spend free PP you just generated before the end of your next turn. Vigor is the one that comes to mind to get 50 temp hp if you need it or a low level buff that has been quickened. So at about level 16 or so the character can spend one round using a nightmare blade attack and then use their standard action the next round for vigor.. I'm not really seeing a problem with that. A quickened low level buff will use up the psionic focus and the swift action so focus will only be able to be regained the round after that in general.. Not sure I see a big problem on the horizon with that either.. Or real cheese is using them with bestow power to get real ones, this part is mostly for out of combat to recharge your PP to full for the cost of a few rounds just use a condition maneuver rather than one that damages your target. Bestow power is a problem in and of itself, it is basically a problem whenever used. Removing bestow power is likely the best option for most games anyway. Something will have to be added in about what sort of maneuvers can gain the bonus, obviously out of combat situations should not be allowed. I'll have to do some test builds to see how things work out. |
| Katash02-18-08, 11:38 PM | I also recently re-worked it on the Prc Board, had help and while it had fairly simple class abilities it was pretty balanced- re named it the Iron Mind. We got rid of the Temp pp recovery ability as it was effectively 'extra spells' or powersper day so you're not really losing your ML just power knowledge. Here it is: The Iron Mind HD D6 Preq: Concentration (9 ranks) Know Psi (4 ranks) Maneuvers- 2 Maneuvers and 1 strike Including 1 Diamond mind and one Iron Heart manuvere Manifesting- Must be able to manifest 2nd lvl powers Feat- Instant Clarity Class BAB Fort Ref Will Feats/Special Manifesting 1 DS1..... 1..... 0..... 2.....0 2 DS2..... 2..... 0..... 3.....0 Diamond focus +1 level of existing manifesting class 3 DS3..... 3..... 1..... 3.....1 +1 level of existing manifesting class 4 DS4..... 4..... 1..... 4.....1 Power Knowledge,Iron Mind Study +1 level of existing manifesting class 5 DS5..... 5..... 1..... 4.....1 +1 level of existing manifesting class 6 DS6..... 6..... 2..... 5.....2 7 DS7..... 7..... 2..... 5.....2 Iron Mind Study +1 level of existing manifesting class 8 DS8..... 8..... 2..... 6.....2 Power Knowledge +1 level of existing manifesting class 9 DS9..... 9..... 3..... 6.....3 +1 level of existing manifesting class 10 DS10.... 10.... 3..... 7.....3 Iron Mind Focus,Iron Mind Study +1 level of existing manifesting class Maneuvers: You gain manuveres and stances from either the Diamond Mind or Iron heart schools at the same rate as a JPM. Diamond Focus- Your Mental Mastery and Diamond Mind training gives you an unwavering focus when concentrating. You add ½ your Diamond Saint class levels as a bonus on concentration checks. Power Knowledge- As you advance as an Iron Mind your understanding of movement in space improves. At each level indicated you learn one additional Psychoportation power from either the Psychoportation or Psion/Wilder power list of up to the highest level you can cast. Iron Mind Study-Your dedication and Focus on learning the Iron Heart and Diamond Mind Disciplines pays off. Similar to a Martial adepts ability to swap manuveres every 4thg level, you may at 6th and 10th level exchange one manuvere known to learn a new manuvere from either the Iron Heart or Diamond Mind Discipline. Iron Mind Focus- at tenth level you have reached the pinnacle of your training. You add +2 damage to any diamond mind or iron heart strike and +2 to the save DC, if any. Combat Early on in the class you likely continue to fight as you did before you joined primarily manifesting if your were a Psion or getting into mellee often if you were an initiatior who discovered a little Psionic talent. As you advance you begin to meld your varied talents into a seemless fighting style. Your peference for skill over brute force means you relish demonstrating your martial superiority, look for the most skilled amongst your enemies and show him his better. You are not flashy however, unusual trait for a warblade, show is nothing, victory everything, use your Diamond Mind and Iron Heart Strikes to defeat your foe quickly and move on before your allies get hurt. Karathsi, the famous Kalashtar who pioneered this style was notorias for encircling himself and enemies in a wall of ectoplasm to ensure no interruptions whilst he dispatched his mightiest foes. His fellows would often stand mouth agape after he'd fell an opponent in two swift moves and return to melle without so much as a cry of victory. Simple. Works. In the build on the Prc Board you can get 8th level powers and 1 8th level manuvere. A couple of 7th level ones. If you'd like to look go to down...... Build: Psion (Kin) 5 /Warblade 1/GB3/Diamond Saint 10/Crus 1 Race: Kalashtar Alignment: Lawful good Ability Scores: STR 16 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 18 WIS 13 CHA 9 2 Flaws- ________________________________________ ________________________ Char Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will Feats/Special 1 Psi1 0 0 0 2 Psi Affin (Singleminded), Boost Construct, Practised Manifester, Combat Reflexes 2 Psi2 1 0 0 3 3 Psi3 1 1 1 3 Durable Construct 4 Psi4 2 1 1 4 5 War1 3 6 GB1 4 Instant Clarity 7 GB2 5 8 IM1 6 Diamond Focus 9 IM2 7 Metamorphic Transfer, Diamond Focus 10 IM3 8 11 IM4 9 Power Knowledge- Teleport, Iron Mind Study 12 GB3 10 Continual Power 13 IM5 11 14 IM6 12 15 Crus1 13 Thicket of Blades 16 IM7 14 Iron Mind Study 17 IM8 15 Power Knowledge- Inconstant Location 18 IM9 16 Stormguard Warrior 19 Psi 5 16 Expanded Knowledge- Dream’s Fatal Embrace 20 IM10 17 Iron Mind Study, Iron Mastery Lvl Strikes Boosts/Counters Stances 5 Emerald Razor, Battle Leader’s Charge Wall of Blades Leading the Attack 8 Iron Heart Surge 10 Mithral Tornado 11 Emerald Razor for Insightful Strike 13 Lightning Recovery Pearl of Black doubt 15 Order forged from Chaos, Warleader’s Charge, Defensive Rebuke, Rallying Strike, Radiant Charge Martial Spirit 16 Iron Heart Endurance, Swap Battle Leader’s Charge for Gtr Insightful Strike 18 Avalanche Of Blades 20 Swap Radiant Charge for Adamantine Hurricane POWERS KNOWN: ML1- Astral Construct (research), Crystal Shard, Entangling Ectoplasm ML2- Offensive Precognition, Precognition Defensive ML3- Alloyed Hide, Energy Missile ML4- Inflict Pain, Read thoughts ML5- Body Adj, Energy Wall ML6- Dispel Psionics, Time Hop ML7- Control Body, Metamorphosis (research) ML8- Energy Ball, Telekinetic Force ML9- Teleport (class feature), Power Resistance, Dominate Psionic (research) ML10- Celestial Conduit, Fiery Discorporation ML11-Disintegrate ML12- Null Psionics Field, Brutalize Wounds ML13- Crownfire, Inconstant Location (class feature) ML14- Probability Mantle, Mass Ectoplasmic Cocoon ML15- Energy Wave, Feat- Dream’s Fatal Embrace ML16- Mindquake, Eyes of the Basilisk By 20 you have 8th level powers (which can be augmented to 9th) enough pp (16lvl) since you won’t likely be manifesting every round, can wear heavy armour, and 1 8th lvl maneuvers Start play like any Psi, rely heavily on Astral Constructs and Energy Missile. When you take Warblade 1, use offensive Precog and Heavy armour to make you survivable in Melle. After that your powers are a mix of personal buffs to toughen you and use you Matrial Strikes, the rest of your powers are for blasting, which you do well thanks to empower. Most Damaging Strikes Ins Strike at 20= +5 for diamond focus +23 ranks +3 Singleminded + 5 Constitution (nat 2 plus magic) +10 3rd eye of Concentrate +d20 (15 to expend focus)= 61 damage Gtr Insightful Strike= 122 damage Avalanche of Blades- With Dex 14 (16 with ring) sacrifice AOO from Rolibar’s Gambit adding +4 to attack and dam for each AOO (Stormguard Warrior) for a total of 12 or 16 bonus. Use Avalanche of Blades at your full Attack (BAB, Magic, Str so on) but with a 12 or 16 bonus eg BAB 17 +5 wpn, +5 STR= 27 plus 16 (AOO sac=4) Using avalanche attack d20 plus 43, 39, 35, 31, 27, 24, etc Assume 6 attacks hit equals 1d8+5(magic)+2d6(sonic)+ 5(Str) +16 = roughly 36 per attack. If 6 hit that would be 216. Needed items: Deep Crystal Sonic Size Changing Manifester Longsword Size Changing Large Mithral Shield Size Changing Mithral Full Plate Skin of Fiery Response Skin of the Psion Torc of Power Preservation |
| Scion of Coldshard02-19-08, 03:24 PM | Katash: Poor fort and will saves? I guess that means the character will be pretty much required to keep the fort and will maneuvers on hand forever.. |