Dimension Swapping and psicrystals [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dimension Swapping and psicrystals [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Izax19
02-02-08, 05:14 PM I am DM'ing for a character who is currently playing a Telepath, and has just taken his first level of Thrallherd. We discussed what would be best for him, and decided his cohort would be a Level 5 Society Mind. I'm familiar with all the rules concerning psionics, and was ecstatic when he chose to take advantage of the material on them. However, I am running into a problem about how to rule on when his Cohort uses Dimension Swap, augmented through his network to affect more than 2 characters.

1) If his psicrystal is elsewhere, can it count as a target and be dimension swapped with him?

2) If his psicrystal is on his person, does it count as a separate target or does it just naturally Swap to wherever his character goes?

Personally, I lean to Yes for the first question, and to having it teleport along with him as an attended object if it's on his body for the second question. However, these two answers seem to contradict each other. What do you guys think?
Jamesks
02-03-08, 12:56 PM Personally I treat a psion's psicrystal the same as a wizard's familiar, meaning that if a wizard's familiar is considered part of the wizard for the purposes of a teleport spell/power then so is a psicrystal, as long as they are sharing the same space.
As for using a psicrystal as the focus of a dimension swap, why not? I've done it a few times my-self in game to escape jail cells, traps, and move through areas that my psicrystal could but I couldn't. I've yet to see any broken reason why a psion shouldn't be allowed to do it (I be willing to bet there is one, but still.), it just another way of playing the game.
InkBlot
02-03-08, 01:12 PM Jamesks, your houserule isn't a houserule. Anybody who takes Psicrystal Affinity gets to share their powers with their psicrystal. It's right there in the book, in the psicrystal entry on page 22 of the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

Share Powers (Su): At the owner’s option, he can have any power (but not any psi-like ability) he manifests on himself also affect his psicrystal. The psicrystal must be within 5 feet of him at the time of the manifestation to receive the benefit. If the power has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the psicrystal if it moves farther than 5 feet away, and will not affect the psicrystal again, even if it returns to its owner before the duration expires.
Additionally, the owner can manifest a power with a target of “You” on his psicrystal (as a touch range power) instead of on himself. The owner and psicrystal cannot share powers if the powers normally do not affect creatures of the psicrystal’s type (construct).

If the Society Mind has his psicrystal in his pocket, then it's close enough to share the dimension swap.

It doesn't count as an extra target when you share a power with your psicrystal. It's more like you're manifesting the power twice (once on you and once for free on your psicrystal).
Izax19
02-03-08, 03:30 PM I apologize for not being clearer. The Dimension Swap is being manifested by his cohort, the society mind, and is targeting the PC and his psicrystal. I don't think that changes the answers very much, but I just wanted to be clear. Thanks for the responses.
PhaedrusXY
02-04-08, 01:26 AM The psicrystal counts as a separate target. The psion can share his own powers with it, so that it doesn't count as a separate target, but his cohort can't do that.
Izax19
02-04-08, 01:30 AM So is his cohort attempted to Swap the telepath PC (who was carrying the psicrystal) with another party member, the psicrystal wouldn't move with the telepath? Unless, of course, the Society Mind cohort spends an extra PP to include it as a target. That seems very counterintuitive. Would you houserule the psicrystal to go along with the telepath if its on his body?
CrimsonDeath
02-04-08, 03:39 AM It might be reasonable to rule it that way if the psicrystal isn't currently mobile (having not materialized limbs or begun flying), since that leaves it with Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution as nonabilities. The reason I find this reasonable is because intelligent weapons and armor are essentially constructs with nonabilities for all three physical ability scores.
Voidboy
02-04-08, 06:07 AM Seems reasonable.
Imagine this setup with a Cancer Mage and his companion.
The cure for cancer is at hand!
PhaedrusXY
02-04-08, 04:05 PM So is his cohort attempted to Swap the telepath PC (who was carrying the psicrystal) with another party member, the psicrystal wouldn't move with the telepath? Unless, of course, the Society Mind cohort spends an extra PP to include it as a target. That seems very counterintuitive. Would you houserule the psicrystal to go along with the telepath if its on his body?Why is it counter intuitive? The psicrystal is a creature, not a piece of equipment. It is like a wizard's familiar, or a druid's animal companion. Would you let those ride along for free if someone else cast a spell on them?
hogarth
02-04-08, 04:28 PM Why is it counter intuitive? The psicrystal is a creature, not a piece of equipment. It is like a wizard's familiar, or a druid's animal companion. Would you let those ride along for free if someone else cast a spell on them?
Maybe "counterintuitive" is not the word I would use, but I might call it "overly detail-oriented". As a DM I could probably be convinced to let familiars/psicrystals ride along for free as long as they're size Diminutive or smaller and securely tucked away (for example -- I'm just pulling that ruling out of my hindquarters). I think it would be silly if teleporting Joe the barbarian leaves behind a cloud of fleas, bacteria and maybe even a tapeworm, but that's just a matter of aesthetics.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Izax19 02-02-08, 05:14 PM	I am DM'ing for a character who is currently playing a Telepath, and has just taken his first level of Thrallherd. We discussed what would be best for him, and decided his cohort would be a Level 5 Society Mind. I'm familiar with all the rules concerning psionics, and was ecstatic when he chose to take advantage of the material on them. However, I am running into a problem about how to rule on when his Cohort uses Dimension Swap, augmented through his network to affect more than 2 characters. 1) If his psicrystal is elsewhere, can it count as a target and be dimension swapped with him? 2) If his psicrystal is on his person, does it count as a separate target or does it just naturally Swap to wherever his character goes? Personally, I lean to Yes for the first question, and to having it teleport along with him as an attended object if it's on his body for the second question. However, these two answers seem to contradict each other. What do you guys think?
Jamesks 02-03-08, 12:56 PM	Personally I treat a psion's psicrystal the same as a wizard's familiar, meaning that if a wizard's familiar is considered part of the wizard for the purposes of a teleport spell/power then so is a psicrystal, as long as they are sharing the same space. As for using a psicrystal as the focus of a dimension swap, why not? I've done it a few times my-self in game to escape jail cells, traps, and move through areas that my psicrystal could but I couldn't. I've yet to see any broken reason why a psion shouldn't be allowed to do it (I be willing to bet there is one, but still.), it just another way of playing the game.
InkBlot 02-03-08, 01:12 PM	Jamesks, your houserule isn't a houserule. Anybody who takes Psicrystal Affinity gets to share their powers with their psicrystal. It's right there in the book, in the psicrystal entry on page 22 of the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Share Powers (Su): At the owner’s option, he can have any power (but not any psi-like ability) he manifests on himself also affect his psicrystal. The psicrystal must be within 5 feet of him at the time of the manifestation to receive the benefit. If the power has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the psicrystal if it moves farther than 5 feet away, and will not affect the psicrystal again, even if it returns to its owner before the duration expires. Additionally, the owner can manifest a power with a target of “You” on his psicrystal (as a touch range power) instead of on himself. The owner and psicrystal cannot share powers if the powers normally do not affect creatures of the psicrystal’s type (construct). If the Society Mind has his psicrystal in his pocket, then it's close enough to share the dimension swap. It doesn't count as an extra target when you share a power with your psicrystal. It's more like you're manifesting the power twice (once on you and once for free on your psicrystal).
Izax19 02-03-08, 03:30 PM	I apologize for not being clearer. The Dimension Swap is being manifested by his cohort, the society mind, and is targeting the PC and his psicrystal. I don't think that changes the answers very much, but I just wanted to be clear. Thanks for the responses.
PhaedrusXY 02-04-08, 01:26 AM	The psicrystal counts as a separate target. The psion can share his own powers with it, so that it doesn't count as a separate target, but his cohort can't do that.
Izax19 02-04-08, 01:30 AM	So is his cohort attempted to Swap the telepath PC (who was carrying the psicrystal) with another party member, the psicrystal wouldn't move with the telepath? Unless, of course, the Society Mind cohort spends an extra PP to include it as a target. That seems very counterintuitive. Would you houserule the psicrystal to go along with the telepath if its on his body?
CrimsonDeath 02-04-08, 03:39 AM	It might be reasonable to rule it that way if the psicrystal isn't currently mobile (having not materialized limbs or begun flying), since that leaves it with Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution as nonabilities. The reason I find this reasonable is because intelligent weapons and armor are essentially constructs with nonabilities for all three physical ability scores.
Voidboy 02-04-08, 06:07 AM	Seems reasonable. Imagine this setup with a Cancer Mage and his companion. The cure for cancer is at hand!
PhaedrusXY 02-04-08, 04:05 PM	So is his cohort attempted to Swap the telepath PC (who was carrying the psicrystal) with another party member, the psicrystal wouldn't move with the telepath? Unless, of course, the Society Mind cohort spends an extra PP to include it as a target. That seems very counterintuitive. Would you houserule the psicrystal to go along with the telepath if its on his body?Why is it counter intuitive? The psicrystal is a creature, not a piece of equipment. It is like a wizard's familiar, or a druid's animal companion. Would you let those ride along for free if someone else cast a spell on them?
hogarth 02-04-08, 04:28 PM	Why is it counter intuitive? The psicrystal is a creature, not a piece of equipment. It is like a wizard's familiar, or a druid's animal companion. Would you let those ride along for free if someone else cast a spell on them? Maybe "counterintuitive" is not the word I would use, but I might call it "overly detail-oriented". As a DM I could probably be convinced to let familiars/psicrystals ride along for free as long as they're size Diminutive or smaller and securely tucked away (for example -- I'm just pulling that ruling out of my hindquarters). I think it would be silly if teleporting Joe the barbarian leaves behind a cloud of fleas, bacteria and maybe even a tapeworm, but that's just a matter of aesthetics.