Dispelling Time hop? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dispelling Time hop? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Linkrulesx10
02-28-07, 11:39 PM Is it possible to dispell time hop, as you aren't there to have the spell dispelled off you, I for one think it isn't possible. If it is possible/isn't could someone please explain why/why not. Thank you
Novacat
03-01-07, 03:33 AM No, you cannot dispel the effect, because the subject is not present to be targeted.
Linkrulesx10
03-02-07, 09:39 AM ok, what about are dispell? Would that effect it as well, I think not but one of my charecter recently got into alot of trouble when his time hop got dispelled (Area effect was how the DM got around the can't be targetted) and he was back 7 rounds earlier then he planned
Scion of Coldshard
03-02-07, 10:11 AM It cannot be dispelled while active.

Can you dispel a spell that is on another plane? generally not, it is too far away.

The same with a time hopped creature, but the distance here is temporal instead of feet or miles.

The creature simply is not within range as currently they do not exist.

The power is not there either, it does not sit around in mid-air while the creature is gone anymore than manifesting inertial armor on yourself at your house would allow someone to go into your house a few hours later, cast dispel, and end your inertial armor no matter where you are in the world.
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-02-07, 11:36 AM Huh?

I would say time hop is a perfectly reasonable spell to hit with a dispel magic (and, by extension, dispel psionics). Its duration is not instantaneous, and dispel allows you to target a spell with its Targeted Dispel effect (I would interpret this that you can target any square that the spell's effect covers to dispel it). By psionics-magic transparency, an active time hop counts as a spell, and can therefore be dispelled.
And for the rest of you guys, the description only describes what happens when you target a creature, not that you have to target a creature to dispel a spell on that creature.
Jaid
03-02-07, 12:15 PM Huh?

I would say time hop is a perfectly reasonable spell to hit with a dispel magic (and, by extension, dispel psionics). Its duration is not instantaneous, and dispel allows you to target a spell with its Targeted Dispel effect (I would interpret this that you can target any square that the spell's effect covers to dispel it). By psionics-magic transparency, an active time hop counts as a spell, and can therefore be dispelled.
And for the rest of you guys, the description only describes what happens when you target a creature, not that you have to target a creature to dispel a spell on that creature.i disagree. time hop is a unidirectional teleport through time, basically. the duration is more like range than it is like a duration of the effect, imo.

and besides, how can you target an area with the power in it? the power isn't there. you don't manifest the power on some 5 foot cube, and then everything in that cube is held out of the time stream for a while. the power is manifest on a target, and that target is no longer there... you can't affect a power that is cast on the target anymore than you could affect the target themselves. it simply isn't there to be dispelled.
Tempest Stormwind
03-02-07, 12:24 PM I'm with the "can't be dispelled" crowd for exactly the same reason as Jaid suggests.

Yes, the power has a duration. But it's targeted. When the target disappears, he takes any spell effect on him -- including Time Hop -- with him into the future. While he's in transit, he effectively doesn't exist, and can't be targeted or hit with area affects, meaning Time Hop remains in effect.

The only difference between Time Hop and the others is that Time Hop's duration continues to tick while he's out of the timestream -- it's measured from your perspective, not his. That's why Time Hop has a "see text" in its duration listing.

If you're concerned about the power ending early, note that it, like Hold Person, can end early if the person gets lucky, even without a dispel.
Linkrulesx10
03-02-07, 10:01 PM Yeah, the Idea was I didn't want it to get dispelled, being that I was being coward and was on low hp. (Actually not a coward I have just died twice and didnt want to be level 8 for the third time (I manged to ge enough xp to level up B4 dying), unfortunently I died in the next adventure, I am not level 8 again, for the 3rd time)

But apart form that thanks for the input, I to am with the majority of people thinking that it can't be dispelled as you aren't there..
Novacat
03-04-07, 06:30 AM ok, what about are dispell? Would that effect it as well, I think not but one of my charecter recently got into alot of trouble when his time hop got dispelled (Area effect was how the DM got around the can't be targetted) and he was back 7 rounds earlier then he planned

The DM screwed you, then. Why can't people just read the freaking spell/power descriptions. If the target is not present, you cannot dispel any effect on him. How does targeting an area the subject isn't in help?
starwed
03-04-07, 11:55 AM The DM screwed you, then.
Oh come on. It's clearly a special case, and it's perfectly reasonable for the DM to rule that the spell effect is present in the intermediate rounds, even if the target isn't. After all, the duration has to mean something; it's not an instantaneous effect for a reason.

It might not be possible by a strict reading of a rules, but it's entirely possible that, RAW, the time hop power is inherently inconsistent as written. (How does it have a duration, if the target sees no intermediate time? Other effects on the target won't experience this missing time, so why does time hop? Either the duration or the target line of the spell is a bit misleading.)
Scion of Coldshard
03-04-07, 12:12 PM How does it have a duration, if the target sees no intermediate time? Other effects on the target won't experience this missing time, so why does time hop? Either the duration or the target line of the spell is a bit misleading.

The target knowing that time has passed is not a condition of time having gone by. A person could be knocked unconscious for example by a spell or other effect and not know that time is going by, that does not prevent time from going by however.

Other effects on the target losing time or not looks to be up to the dm. I would rule it that they are frozen by the power as well but I could see someone saying that while the target is not aware magical effects still are and their durations count down all the same. Either way though that does not change the fact that time hop is still counting down. Plus the duration line is, '1 round/level; see text' and the text has more explination.

While it could do with a little polishing up it is not self-contradictory. The subject is pushed forward in time up to a certain limit but may come back sooner. The duration on time hop counts down while the subject is gone but, in my opinion, nothing else on the character does as a special feature of this power. While gone there appears to be no way to effect them in any way nor anything that was/will be on them, such as time hop itself.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Linkrulesx10 02-28-07, 11:39 PM	Is it possible to dispell time hop, as you aren't there to have the spell dispelled off you, I for one think it isn't possible. If it is possible/isn't could someone please explain why/why not. Thank you
Novacat 03-01-07, 03:33 AM	No, you cannot dispel the effect, because the subject is not present to be targeted.
Linkrulesx10 03-02-07, 09:39 AM	ok, what about are dispell? Would that effect it as well, I think not but one of my charecter recently got into alot of trouble when his time hop got dispelled (Area effect was how the DM got around the can't be targetted) and he was back 7 rounds earlier then he planned
Scion of Coldshard 03-02-07, 10:11 AM	It cannot be dispelled while active. Can you dispel a spell that is on another plane? generally not, it is too far away. The same with a time hopped creature, but the distance here is temporal instead of feet or miles. The creature simply is not within range as currently they do not exist. The power is not there either, it does not sit around in mid-air while the creature is gone anymore than manifesting inertial armor on yourself at your house would allow someone to go into your house a few hours later, cast dispel, and end your inertial armor no matter where you are in the world.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-02-07, 11:36 AM	Huh? I would say time hop is a perfectly reasonable spell to hit with a dispel magic (and, by extension, dispel psionics). Its duration is not instantaneous, and dispel allows you to target a spell with its Targeted Dispel effect (I would interpret this that you can target any square that the spell's effect covers to dispel it). By psionics-magic transparency, an active time hop counts as a spell, and can therefore be dispelled. And for the rest of you guys, the description only describes what happens when you target a creature, not that you have to target a creature to dispel a spell on that creature.
Jaid 03-02-07, 12:15 PM	Huh? I would say time hop is a perfectly reasonable spell to hit with a dispel magic (and, by extension, dispel psionics). Its duration is not instantaneous, and dispel allows you to target a spell with its Targeted Dispel effect (I would interpret this that you can target any square that the spell's effect covers to dispel it). By psionics-magic transparency, an active time hop counts as a spell, and can therefore be dispelled. And for the rest of you guys, the description only describes what happens when you target a creature, not that you have to target a creature to dispel a spell on that creature.i disagree. time hop is a unidirectional teleport through time, basically. the duration is more like range than it is like a duration of the effect, imo. and besides, how can you target an area with the power in it? the power isn't there. you don't manifest the power on some 5 foot cube, and then everything in that cube is held out of the time stream for a while. the power is manifest on a target, and that target is no longer there... you can't affect a power that is cast on the target anymore than you could affect the target themselves. it simply isn't there to be dispelled.
Tempest Stormwind 03-02-07, 12:24 PM	I'm with the "can't be dispelled" crowd for exactly the same reason as Jaid suggests. Yes, the power has a duration. But it's targeted. When the target disappears, he takes any spell effect on him -- including Time Hop -- with him into the future. While he's in transit, he effectively doesn't exist, and can't be targeted or hit with area affects, meaning Time Hop remains in effect. The only difference between Time Hop and the others is that Time Hop's duration continues to tick while he's out of the timestream -- it's measured from your perspective, not his. That's why Time Hop has a "see text" in its duration listing. If you're concerned about the power ending early, note that it, like Hold Person, can end early if the person gets lucky, even without a dispel.
Linkrulesx10 03-02-07, 10:01 PM	Yeah, the Idea was I didn't want it to get dispelled, being that I was being coward and was on low hp. (Actually not a coward I have just died twice and didnt want to be level 8 for the third time (I manged to ge enough xp to level up B4 dying), unfortunently I died in the next adventure, I am not level 8 again, for the 3rd time) But apart form that thanks for the input, I to am with the majority of people thinking that it can't be dispelled as you aren't there..
Novacat 03-04-07, 06:30 AM	ok, what about are dispell? Would that effect it as well, I think not but one of my charecter recently got into alot of trouble when his time hop got dispelled (Area effect was how the DM got around the can't be targetted) and he was back 7 rounds earlier then he planned The DM screwed you, then. Why can't people just read the freaking spell/power descriptions. If the target is not present, you cannot dispel any effect on him. How does targeting an area the subject isn't in help?
starwed 03-04-07, 11:55 AM	The DM screwed you, then. Oh come on. It's clearly a special case, and it's perfectly reasonable for the DM to rule that the spell effect is present in the intermediate rounds, even if the target isn't. After all, the duration has to mean something; it's not an instantaneous effect for a reason. It might not be possible by a strict reading of a rules, but it's entirely possible that, RAW, the time hop power is inherently inconsistent as written. (How does it have a duration, if the target sees no intermediate time? Other effects on the target won't experience this missing time, so why does time hop? Either the duration or the target line of the spell is a bit misleading.)
Scion of Coldshard 03-04-07, 12:12 PM	How does it have a duration, if the target sees no intermediate time? Other effects on the target won't experience this missing time, so why does time hop? Either the duration or the target line of the spell is a bit misleading. The target knowing that time has passed is not a condition of time having gone by. A person could be knocked unconscious for example by a spell or other effect and not know that time is going by, that does not prevent time from going by however. Other effects on the target losing time or not looks to be up to the dm. I would rule it that they are frozen by the power as well but I could see someone saying that while the target is not aware magical effects still are and their durations count down all the same. Either way though that does not change the fact that time hop is still counting down. Plus the duration line is, '1 round/level; see text' and the text has more explination. While it could do with a little polishing up it is not self-contradictory. The subject is pushed forward in time up to a certain limit but may come back sooner. The duration on time hop counts down while the subject is gone but, in my opinion, nothing else on the character does as a special feature of this power. While gone there appears to be no way to effect them in any way nor anything that was/will be on them, such as time hop itself.