Dividing Psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dividing Psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DarkTouch
03-21-07, 07:28 PM So I've started working on a new Homebrew world. Its pretty vague right now but I have some ideas and am starting to mesh things in. I've gone through the Gods and the requisite war with the world rebuilding blah blah blah.

As I've been working on the Cosmology, it struck me that connecting the different supernatural sources to the planes makes some sense. This is building up to a question about psionics so please bear with me.

The Primordial Realm - The metaphysical wall between the Chaos (Far Realm) and the rest of reality. The source of arcane energy, it is the elemental planes all together. The god of law makes his home here. It is perfect for arcane as you have to study the laws of magic.

Erebus - The Foyer on the way to the afterlife. It holds both the possitive and negative energy planes as well as characteristics of the outer planes. Obviously fits with divine magic.

This is where it gets into psionics:

Morpheus/Dream - This was the cosmology's version of the astral plane when I got started. It makes a good fit for psionics.. even more so when I start taking inspiration from the Truenaming Psionics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=470229) thread which has some fabulous ideas on psionics as dream energy. I especially am attached to this idea of psionic displays as the impressions of dreams trying to push their way into the world.

So that's all well and good, but the feel to 'Dream' is very different from the alien evil of Mind Flayers and what not. Eberron has already done something similar with seperating out the dreaming dark and the realm of madness for different things... but attaching it planes (Dream/Chaos) and Powers(Dream Psionics/Crazy Psionics)... does it make sense to split psionics into two different types of psionics? Should I use SubPsionics? Would it make sense to get rid of transparency rules and keep magic as magic and the two types of psionics as different?
Kiklio
03-21-07, 07:48 PM You'll hear this response echoed often: Non-transparency is more trouble that it's worth.

Dividing disciplines or types of psionics thematically doesn't change the mechanical system at all. Each sphere operates as it once did, and you have an appreciable amount of difference between each type of psionics/magic.

Non-transparency intrudes upon mechanical aspects of the game. This wouldn't be a bad thing, but you have to do all of the work in dealing with inevitable interaction issues. The game will most likely become awkward and forced, and certain characters will be screwed. It won't even be your fault; the game is not designed for non-transparency.

If you want a friendly and perfectly legitimate division between how certain psionics operates, just say the power comes from different sources. Do not give yourself unnecessary work in trying to make non-transparency function.
DarkTouch
03-21-07, 09:36 PM Good point.

Yeah, I'm not sure I want to go through the whole re-writing of the system for transparency. I'm happy with a general resistance to supernatural powers and all that. I've even been thinking of ditching Spellcraft and Psicraft division and leaving Knowledge skills to cover any other differences.

The SubPsionics Stuff (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pse/20021025a) looks like a way to handle the psion's mind disconnecting from the dream and reconnecting to chaos.

On the other hand, it might be enough to just say that the difference between the various types is just Arcane, Divine, Dream Psionics, and Chaos Psionics.. probably with a rename and just wash my hands of it all right there.
Jaid
03-22-07, 03:17 PM in fact, you could always just tie in the dream/chaos together.

after all, you've got both positive and negative planes tied in to divine. why not just have two sources for psionics as well, with each power having a source as it feels appropriate (with no mechanical changes occurring at all).
DarkTouch
03-22-07, 05:59 PM You have a good point... although I have started thinking about doing a division there as well.

On the other hand, maybe I'm overthinking the whole thing. It might be simpler if I just switched all casters over to a Point based casting system, called everything "magic" and then allowed them to define themselves individually by the plane they connect to.

Wait, that sounds like more work. Maybe I'm just a masochist.
Kiklio
03-22-07, 08:15 PM Masochism would be saying, "I could probably just use the 3.0 Psionic Handbook".

Try developing these dualities more. Imagine that you can have 4 types of power on two "alignment" axis.

The first would be "Within/Without". The second would be "Material/Immaterial"

Arcane magic is Material Power from Without, because it deals with channelling power to manipulate the world.

Divine magic is Immaterial Power from Without, because it deals with channelling sublime energy to manipulate beings.

Dream Psionics is Immaterial Power from Within, because it involves projecting desires into people and energy.

Chaos Psionics is Material Power from Within, because it involves projecting controlled instability into physical things.

There is some cross-over. Psions can know both types of psionics, but mages/clerics can't know both types of magic without multiclassing. That's okay. Just remember, not all arcane magic deals with fireballs, not all divine magic deals with protection from evil. Not all dream psionics deals with mindlinks, and not all chaos psionics deals with telekinesis.

The way to make players recognize and appreciate the overall themes is to show them that they already exist. Wizards and sorcerers can specialize in schools with Spell Focus. Clerics have their domains. Psions have disciplines, and ardents have mantles.

Choose two-three schools to represent the power of The Primordial Realm, and make two feats and a five-level archmage-esque PRC that benefits from specializing. Do the same for Erebus, Morpheus, and The Far Realm.

I hope this helps. The flexibility involved in embracing overlap in the rules makes everything easy and surprisingly logical. It also allows you to explore a vast array of NPC concepts, organizations, rivalries, and whatnot. The more ability for interaction, the richer the campaign worlf can be, with minimal effort.
DarkTouch
03-24-07, 12:05 AM All excellent ideas. Much thanks for taking the time to write them all down.

Right now I'm not even sure if I'm prepared to implement all of the base classes as is. Bards for instance are obvious canidates to get converted to 'dream psionics'. Similarly, I'm not 100% sure about there being evil clerics.. well, there are evil clerics but non-lawful clerics. The gods are the law of the land.. anyone who worships one of the 'others' well, they should be something that isn't cleric.

A lot to think about.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarkTouch 03-21-07, 07:28 PM	So I've started working on a new Homebrew world. Its pretty vague right now but I have some ideas and am starting to mesh things in. I've gone through the Gods and the requisite war with the world rebuilding blah blah blah. As I've been working on the Cosmology, it struck me that connecting the different supernatural sources to the planes makes some sense. This is building up to a question about psionics so please bear with me. The Primordial Realm - The metaphysical wall between the Chaos (Far Realm) and the rest of reality. The source of arcane energy, it is the elemental planes all together. The god of law makes his home here. It is perfect for arcane as you have to study the laws of magic. Erebus - The Foyer on the way to the afterlife. It holds both the possitive and negative energy planes as well as characteristics of the outer planes. Obviously fits with divine magic. This is where it gets into psionics: Morpheus/Dream - This was the cosmology's version of the astral plane when I got started. It makes a good fit for psionics.. even more so when I start taking inspiration from the Truenaming Psionics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=470229) thread which has some fabulous ideas on psionics as dream energy. I especially am attached to this idea of psionic displays as the impressions of dreams trying to push their way into the world. So that's all well and good, but the feel to 'Dream' is very different from the alien evil of Mind Flayers and what not. Eberron has already done something similar with seperating out the dreaming dark and the realm of madness for different things... but attaching it planes (Dream/Chaos) and Powers(Dream Psionics/Crazy Psionics)... does it make sense to split psionics into two different types of psionics? Should I use SubPsionics? Would it make sense to get rid of transparency rules and keep magic as magic and the two types of psionics as different?
Kiklio 03-21-07, 07:48 PM	You'll hear this response echoed often: Non-transparency is more trouble that it's worth. Dividing disciplines or types of psionics thematically doesn't change the mechanical system at all. Each sphere operates as it once did, and you have an appreciable amount of difference between each type of psionics/magic. Non-transparency intrudes upon mechanical aspects of the game. This wouldn't be a bad thing, but you have to do all of the work in dealing with inevitable interaction issues. The game will most likely become awkward and forced, and certain characters will be screwed. It won't even be your fault; the game is not designed for non-transparency. If you want a friendly and perfectly legitimate division between how certain psionics operates, just say the power comes from different sources. Do not give yourself unnecessary work in trying to make non-transparency function.
DarkTouch 03-21-07, 09:36 PM	Good point. Yeah, I'm not sure I want to go through the whole re-writing of the system for transparency. I'm happy with a general resistance to supernatural powers and all that. I've even been thinking of ditching Spellcraft and Psicraft division and leaving Knowledge skills to cover any other differences. The SubPsionics Stuff (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pse/20021025a) looks like a way to handle the psion's mind disconnecting from the dream and reconnecting to chaos. On the other hand, it might be enough to just say that the difference between the various types is just Arcane, Divine, Dream Psionics, and Chaos Psionics.. probably with a rename and just wash my hands of it all right there.
Jaid 03-22-07, 03:17 PM	in fact, you could always just tie in the dream/chaos together. after all, you've got both positive and negative planes tied in to divine. why not just have two sources for psionics as well, with each power having a source as it feels appropriate (with no mechanical changes occurring at all).
DarkTouch 03-22-07, 05:59 PM	You have a good point... although I have started thinking about doing a division there as well. On the other hand, maybe I'm overthinking the whole thing. It might be simpler if I just switched all casters over to a Point based casting system, called everything "magic" and then allowed them to define themselves individually by the plane they connect to. Wait, that sounds like more work. Maybe I'm just a masochist.
Kiklio 03-22-07, 08:15 PM	Masochism would be saying, "I could probably just use the 3.0 Psionic Handbook". Try developing these dualities more. Imagine that you can have 4 types of power on two "alignment" axis. The first would be "Within/Without". The second would be "Material/Immaterial" Arcane magic is Material Power from Without, because it deals with channelling power to manipulate the world. Divine magic is Immaterial Power from Without, because it deals with channelling sublime energy to manipulate beings. Dream Psionics is Immaterial Power from Within, because it involves projecting desires into people and energy. Chaos Psionics is Material Power from Within, because it involves projecting controlled instability into physical things. There is some cross-over. Psions can know both types of psionics, but mages/clerics can't know both types of magic without multiclassing. That's okay. Just remember, not all arcane magic deals with fireballs, not all divine magic deals with protection from evil. Not all dream psionics deals with mindlinks, and not all chaos psionics deals with telekinesis. The way to make players recognize and appreciate the overall themes is to show them that they already exist. Wizards and sorcerers can specialize in schools with Spell Focus. Clerics have their domains. Psions have disciplines, and ardents have mantles. Choose two-three schools to represent the power of The Primordial Realm, and make two feats and a five-level archmage-esque PRC that benefits from specializing. Do the same for Erebus, Morpheus, and The Far Realm. I hope this helps. The flexibility involved in embracing overlap in the rules makes everything easy and surprisingly logical. It also allows you to explore a vast array of NPC concepts, organizations, rivalries, and whatnot. The more ability for interaction, the richer the campaign worlf can be, with minimal effort.
DarkTouch 03-24-07, 12:05 AM	All excellent ideas. Much thanks for taking the time to write them all down. Right now I'm not even sure if I'm prepared to implement all of the base classes as is. Bards for instance are obvious canidates to get converted to 'dream psionics'. Similarly, I'm not 100% sure about there being evil clerics.. well, there are evil clerics but non-lawful clerics. The gods are the law of the land.. anyone who worships one of the 'others' well, they should be something that isn't cleric. A lot to think about.