Divine Mind [Archive] - Wizards Community

Divine Mind [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xerj
02-20-08, 01:43 AM Thinking of rolling a divine mind up soon. I'm curious what other people think of them and what mantle/power choices go well together. I can see so many possibilities I've got to hear what others ideas are.
Lycanthromancer
02-20-08, 02:00 AM Divine minds suck dorje.

Seriously.

Get a board variant or go ardent, instead.
MnemonicSV
02-20-08, 02:26 AM Unfortunately, the biggest piece of advice you'll get for the Divine Mind, is to not play one. They are generally weaker than all the other classes. Psychic Warrior is a better choice.

But, if you are still dead-set on playing a Divine Mind, it is still playable. In fact, you would be justified in requesting that your DM alter the Divine Mind to make it more worthwhile. IMO, raising it's BAB progression to that of a fighter (1/1) helps immensely. Increasing the range of the psychic aura is also a good idea for a fix, and/or allowing a few bonus feats here and there.

Remember, despite your "special" abilities, you remain first and foremost a warrior. Therefore, look into powerful warrior builds. It's too easy to get distracted by the psionic nature of the class, and in turn make poor feat choices. More than other classes, the Divine Mind's feat selections can make or break it.

Your mantle choices are up to you (limited by your faith of course), but remember, any powers you get should come secondary to your combat abilities. So, when choosing any powers first ask yourself: how will this power make me a better warrior? Failing that, only then ask yourself: How will this power further my goal/cause?

-----

Note, many people on the boards complain that the Divine Mind is too "psionic X," or generally not fitting of the psionic theme.

I, on the other hand, interpret the Divine Mind's role a little differently. It is not entirely incomprehensible that the divine mind could in fact be "thematically holier" than even a cleric. For example, one could argue that only an exceptionally open-minded or enlightened person (ie: a psionically aware person) could be even capable of truly perceiving the exceptionally complex thoughts and desires of a deity. Who's to say that a psionic character could not have a stronger connection to their god than a mundane character, simply by virtue of the fact that their minds are more divinely in-tune? This is of course all flavour text and fluff, but something to think about even so.

And it was never written in stone that a divine mind gets their power directly from their chosen deity. Perhaps it is simply their unwavering faith that gives them the focus they need to harness their own latent abilities. their belief merely amplifies the power that already lies within them. In that respect, I would suspect that even if the god of a divine mind were to die, the divine mind likely wouldn't lose any abilities at all until he came to realize that fact. A divine mind doesn't answer any "call" from his deity, he makes his own conscious choice to follow the tenets of his god and enforce those beliefs onto others. Gods often select their paladins and clerics... Divine Minds are just self-made.
Xerj
02-20-08, 12:22 PM Thanks for the warning. I agree with much of your Rant section, actually. I was looking into the divine mind because it seemed like a decent melee class with original (along with the ardent) psionic abilities. I suppose the psywar would work fine for my idea, my fellow players are a bit skiddish when it comes to psionics though and I thought that mantles and only a few powers from the divine mind might help me ease it into the game. I'm actually curious about the Ardent as well. Same BAB, mantles, and simply more power points and powers known, only difference is no auras. Hmm, guess I'll start looking into builds for them now.
Scion of Coldshard
02-20-08, 01:09 PM The divine mind does have a few issues.. I've actually played one through several levels ;)

Still though, a couple of fairly minor tweaks and they can be worthwhile at lower levels. I might be worried at higher levels though when everything starts stacking up.

Full BAB is a pretty easy way to go though. Increasing the aura by 10' and making the aura boosting feat not only give 5' more but also make you count as some number of levels higher for aura abilities should finish off that deal. At that point you will basically be a martial bard without bardic knowledge.
UCsimplyme
02-20-08, 05:25 PM A couple points that might help when you are building one:
As mentioned before, you are a warrior first and foremost; all your feats and powers need to augment this.
If you stay pure classed, you will need to focus on feats that make the most of your lower number of attacks. Things that come to mind are Power Attack with a 2hdr, Charging, and possibly the Psionic Weapon line (and/or Deep Impact).
Feats, Feats, Feats; Play a human, take some flaws, get as many of these as you can.

Just some thoughts.
Scion of Coldshard
02-20-08, 05:35 PM If you play a human a single level dip in one of the book of nine swords classes could be a really big help as well.

High wisdom could make a two level dip in swordsage nice late in the game as well.
Lycanthromancer
02-21-08, 03:17 AM As far as the psychic warrior goes, it's widely considered by virtually everyone (that doesn't automagically hate psionics for no good reason) to be one of THE most balanced classes in the game (on par with the rogue). It gets something really nice at every level, and scales well from 1 to 20.

So no worries about freaking your group out. Don't let anybody know you're psionic, call your abilities something else, and use different terminology (such as wands, etc). They'll think you're cool, and they'll never know the difference, if that's your problem. Of course, the DM will have to know, but if he's letting you play psionics anyway...
awaken_D_M_golem
02-22-08, 03:45 PM Check out the Mind's Eye article. Divine Mind gets a minor boost there. Substitute Powers from Ardent helps.

One of the Auras provides a power point recharge for the whole party ... hint :cool:

Level 8, get your Psion buddy to Swift 1st level power Link PsyRef you on the first round of combat.
Stick in what ever Tap/Don/Extra Aura combo you need.
Schism item helps here, too; although it is expensive.

Level 14, get a Hustle Link Hustle Twin item. Yep, it's custom, but so are Dorjes.
Switch Auras 2 or 4 times a round.

Prolly need a CR adjustment at that point, of -2.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xerj 02-20-08, 01:43 AM	Thinking of rolling a divine mind up soon. I'm curious what other people think of them and what mantle/power choices go well together. I can see so many possibilities I've got to hear what others ideas are.
Lycanthromancer 02-20-08, 02:00 AM	Divine minds suck dorje. Seriously. Get a board variant or go ardent, instead.
MnemonicSV 02-20-08, 02:26 AM	Unfortunately, the biggest piece of advice you'll get for the Divine Mind, is to not play one. They are generally weaker than all the other classes. Psychic Warrior is a better choice. But, if you are still dead-set on playing a Divine Mind, it is still playable. In fact, you would be justified in requesting that your DM alter the Divine Mind to make it more worthwhile. IMO, raising it's BAB progression to that of a fighter (1/1) helps immensely. Increasing the range of the psychic aura is also a good idea for a fix, and/or allowing a few bonus feats here and there. Remember, despite your "special" abilities, you remain first and foremost a warrior. Therefore, look into powerful warrior builds. It's too easy to get distracted by the psionic nature of the class, and in turn make poor feat choices. More than other classes, the Divine Mind's feat selections can make or break it. Your mantle choices are up to you (limited by your faith of course), but remember, any powers you get should come secondary to your combat abilities. So, when choosing any powers first ask yourself: how will this power make me a better warrior? Failing that, only then ask yourself: How will this power further my goal/cause? ----- Note, many people on the boards complain that the Divine Mind is too "psionic X," or generally not fitting of the psionic theme. I, on the other hand, interpret the Divine Mind's role a little differently. It is not entirely incomprehensible that the divine mind could in fact be "thematically holier" than even a cleric. For example, one could argue that only an exceptionally open-minded or enlightened person (ie: a psionically aware person) could be even capable of truly perceiving the exceptionally complex thoughts and desires of a deity. Who's to say that a psionic character could not have a stronger connection to their god than a mundane character, simply by virtue of the fact that their minds are more divinely in-tune? This is of course all flavour text and fluff, but something to think about even so. And it was never written in stone that a divine mind gets their power directly from their chosen deity. Perhaps it is simply their unwavering faith that gives them the focus they need to harness their own latent abilities. their belief merely amplifies the power that already lies within them. In that respect, I would suspect that even if the god of a divine mind were to die, the divine mind likely wouldn't lose any abilities at all until he came to realize that fact. A divine mind doesn't answer any "call" from his deity, he makes his own conscious choice to follow the tenets of his god and enforce those beliefs onto others. Gods often select their paladins and clerics... Divine Minds are just self-made.
Xerj 02-20-08, 12:22 PM	Thanks for the warning. I agree with much of your Rant section, actually. I was looking into the divine mind because it seemed like a decent melee class with original (along with the ardent) psionic abilities. I suppose the psywar would work fine for my idea, my fellow players are a bit skiddish when it comes to psionics though and I thought that mantles and only a few powers from the divine mind might help me ease it into the game. I'm actually curious about the Ardent as well. Same BAB, mantles, and simply more power points and powers known, only difference is no auras. Hmm, guess I'll start looking into builds for them now.
Scion of Coldshard 02-20-08, 01:09 PM	The divine mind does have a few issues.. I've actually played one through several levels ;) Still though, a couple of fairly minor tweaks and they can be worthwhile at lower levels. I might be worried at higher levels though when everything starts stacking up. Full BAB is a pretty easy way to go though. Increasing the aura by 10' and making the aura boosting feat not only give 5' more but also make you count as some number of levels higher for aura abilities should finish off that deal. At that point you will basically be a martial bard without bardic knowledge.
UCsimplyme 02-20-08, 05:25 PM	A couple points that might help when you are building one: As mentioned before, you are a warrior first and foremost; all your feats and powers need to augment this. If you stay pure classed, you will need to focus on feats that make the most of your lower number of attacks. Things that come to mind are Power Attack with a 2hdr, Charging, and possibly the Psionic Weapon line (and/or Deep Impact). Feats, Feats, Feats; Play a human, take some flaws, get as many of these as you can. Just some thoughts.
Scion of Coldshard 02-20-08, 05:35 PM	If you play a human a single level dip in one of the book of nine swords classes could be a really big help as well. High wisdom could make a two level dip in swordsage nice late in the game as well.
Lycanthromancer 02-21-08, 03:17 AM	As far as the psychic warrior goes, it's widely considered by virtually everyone (that doesn't automagically hate psionics for no good reason) to be one of THE most balanced classes in the game (on par with the rogue). It gets something really nice at every level, and scales well from 1 to 20. So no worries about freaking your group out. Don't let anybody know you're psionic, call your abilities something else, and use different terminology (such as wands, etc). They'll think you're cool, and they'll never know the difference, if that's your problem. Of course, the DM will have to know, but if he's letting you play psionics anyway...
awaken_D_M_golem 02-22-08, 03:45 PM	Check out the Mind's Eye article. Divine Mind gets a minor boost there. Substitute Powers from Ardent helps. One of the Auras provides a power point recharge for the whole party ... hint :cool: Level 8, get your Psion buddy to Swift 1st level power Link PsyRef you on the first round of combat. Stick in what ever Tap/Don/Extra Aura combo you need. Schism item helps here, too; although it is expensive. Level 14, get a Hustle Link Hustle Twin item. Yep, it's custom, but so are Dorjes. Switch Auras 2 or 4 times a round. Prolly need a CR adjustment at that point, of -2.