Do Psicrystals get feats? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do Psicrystals get feats? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
heavenisme
01-26-08, 07:59 AM Do Psicrystals get feats? If so how many? I have a 10th level psion, would that give his psicrystal 4 feats?
jbsaff
01-26-08, 11:19 AM From the Psionic FAQ Sticky at the top of this forum: Psionic Monster FAQ (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=9178120&postcount=10)
heavenisme
01-26-08, 12:23 PM So which feats go well with the crystal?
Lycanthromancer
01-26-08, 12:25 PM What do you use your psicrystal for already? What kind of psion are you using?

Make your psicrystal something special with Flyby Attack? Have it use your touch-based powers, maybe? This topic has been done. And lots.
Favored Enemy
01-26-08, 10:40 PM Do Psicrystals get feats?
Only if you ignore WotC's customer service reps who have continuously and consistantly said that Psicrystals do not gain feats.
Slagger the Chuul
01-27-08, 02:50 AM Only if you ignore WotC's customer service reps who have continuously and consistantly said that Psicrystals do not gain feats.

They're supposed to have the statistics given in the monster section of the Expanded Psionics Handbook, with the noted changes, but it seems that a lot of people feel the Hit Dice change automatically overrides the given entries for BAB and feats.

I personally don't, but it depends what you think about how it all works, and I still disagree with customer service (since I believe that psicrystals have Alertness).
jbsaff
01-27-08, 02:50 AM Only if you ignore WotC's customer service reps who have continuously and consistantly said that Psicrystals do not gain feats.

Contrary to all game rule evidence. To quote the Psionic FAQ again:

I have just concluded an extended question/answer session with Trevor K of CustServ, who was kind enough to relay most of my questions to R&D and get answers from them.
Rules as intended: Psicrystals are *not* intended to get feats. This was straight from the fellows at R&D, who were "adamant" about it, and admitted the rules are confusing.
Rules as written: No one, not even R&D, was able to cite a rule overriding the basic monster rules to prevent psicrystals from gaining feats as they gain HD. Thus, rules as written, psicrystals get feats.

Trevor hinted that R&D would try to get errata on this subject out soon, though nothing definitive was said. (He was polite, informative, and cooperative. If you have complaints about CustServ, save them; these come from R&D as much as him.)

Should they get feats? Figure out what works for your game. Applying the rules as they are written, though, they do get feats. It's not likely to break your game either way.
Paradox-of-Life
01-27-08, 02:56 AM If they do get feats, make it take wild talent so it gets a PP reserve. That way, it can focus by itself without needing you to charge it. From there, go with psi-containment shenanigans.
Suldarr'essalar
01-27-08, 03:22 AM At 21st level, psicrystal gains psicrystal power feat. Does it make him a psionic creature?
Slagger the Chuul
01-27-08, 09:00 AM Should they get feats? Figure out what works for your game. Applying the rules as they are written, though, they do get feats. It's not likely to break your game either way.

The evidence reads one of two ways, both technically as the rules are written. It's just a case of whether you apply the instructions in the general (for feats) or the specific (for Alertness) sense.

Working on only the provided rules, the question is really whether or not they get more than one feat.
hogarth
01-27-08, 12:15 PM Do Psicrystals get feats? If so how many? I have a 10th level psion, would that give his psicrystal 4 feats?
Ask your DM.
StruckingFuggle
01-27-08, 01:25 PM ...While that's a technically correct answer to any rules issue in dnd, that's also a pretty horrible answer. What is the dm likely to say? What are the rules on the matter and what is the discussion on the matter? Is there a case to make to the DM, for or against?
Tempest Stormwind
01-27-08, 01:33 PM If they do get feats, make it take wild talent so it gets a PP reserve. That way, it can focus by itself without needing you to charge it. From there, go with psi-containment shenanigans.

Not quite. See, if your psicrystal focuses itself via Wild/Hidden Talent, you can't spend that focus any more than you can spend your lurk buddy's focus. The 'special' focus from Psicrystal Containment is expendable by you because the feat lets you do it.
hogarth
01-27-08, 02:48 PM ...While that's a technically correct answer to any rules issue in dnd, that's also a pretty horrible answer. What is the dm likely to say? What are the rules on the matter and what is the discussion on the matter? Is there a case to make to the DM, for or against?
In the case where something is genuinely ambiguous (as I feel this issue is), that's all you can do.
awaken_D_M_golem
01-27-08, 03:50 PM Psicrystals have a Con of -- , so they can't obtain Psionic Focus on their own.

Which feats to pick ?
Back when the board was more active, there was this thread linky ---> So my Psicrystal gets feats... (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=10636081#post10636081)
I think the link will take you to the first build that popped up, and more happen later.
And don't forget Scion of Coldshard's Big Guy Is With Me build.
Tempest Stormwind
01-27-08, 06:13 PM Psicrystals have a Con of -- , so they can't obtain Psionic Focus on their own.

Except that things with nonability Constitutions use their Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
Slagger the Chuul
01-27-08, 08:43 PM Except that things with nonability Constitutions use their Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.

Isn't that a specific trait of the undead creature type?

Not that it matters, since constructs can still use the +0 modifier for a nonability score.
Tempest Stormwind
01-27-08, 10:04 PM Isn't that a specific trait of the undead creature type?

It might be; I'm a bit out of practice on the nuances of 3.5 (been running Saga for quite some time now), but I seem to recall it working on constructs as well. Still, you're right; in the end it doesn't matter.
CrimsonDeath
01-28-08, 04:27 PM It might be; I'm a bit out of practice on the nuances of 3.5 (been running Saga for quite some time now), but I seem to recall it working on constructs as well. Still, you're right; in the end it doesn't matter.

It's a specific trait of undead, actually. Which is bad news for Green Star Adepts.
Screams
02-26-08, 11:18 PM ok so when does a psicrystal gain it's feats?
lev 1 ? 2? 3?

based on its masters level so if human master 2 at level 1?
jbsaff
02-27-08, 01:05 AM It's a construct. It gets a feat for the 1st HD, another for 3rd, and another for every 3 HD after that (6th, 9th, 12th, etc...). Its HD is as its master's.
AntiDjinn
02-27-08, 02:38 PM I do not believe it was the author's intent that psicrystals should get feats, but by virtue of the fact they are written up with a standard creature entry and don't say otherwise, they do. If BRC wanted them to have feats, then he has had two additional books (Hyperconscious and CPsi) to publish feats designed for pet rocks or to detail sample manifesters with their psicrystals. He hasn't.

So while I don't think they were ever supposed to gain feats in addition to all the goodies they already get, by the rules for creatures they do until WotC says otherwise. For that matter, it would be refreshing to hear from WotC on this since it would mean breaking their code of silence on psicrystals. They won't. It is personal for them now. Notice that among the sample characters with manifester levels published since the XPH: CPsi (6 PrC sample characters), Dragon Magic (1 PrC sample), Complete Adventurer (1 PrC sample), Complete Scoundrel (1 PrC sample), and Elder Evils (Pandorym) exactly none of them even took the feat Psicrystal Affinity. Morvek Thar, the Diamond Dragon, actually spent his 5 feats on: Armor Proficiency (light), and Psionic Talent (X4) rather than sully himself with the more useful Psicrystal Affinity. I am sure there are more manifesters written up in other WotC books; can anyone find an actual write up of a character's pet rock? If they ever put one on paper, they will actually be answering questions about them, and it appears they are determined to never let that happen.
Psionx
02-27-08, 05:10 PM My opinion is that psicrystals should gain feats. (Familiars should probably gain feats too... but I didn't know that so LIGHTNINGFASTEDIT!)
Lycanthromancer
02-27-08, 05:13 PM My opinion is that psicrystals should gain feats. (Familiars should probably gain feats too... but I didn't know that so LIGHTNINGFASTEDIT!)

My name is Lycanthromancer and I approve of this message.
Psionx
02-27-08, 07:08 PM My name is Lycanthromancer and I approve of this message.

Unfortunately there isn't a smiley for this, but ... :X
Malek2991
02-27-08, 10:57 PM The rule in the MM states anything with an INT score gets a 1 feat + 1/3HD.

Psicrystals, familiars, animal companions, special mounts, etc... all gain feats when they advance in HD.
Lycanthromancer
02-27-08, 11:05 PM Familiars gain hit points, but not Hit Dice, so it doesn't work. Sorry. :(
Racinante
02-28-08, 10:11 AM Familiars gain hit points, but not Hit Dice, so it doesn't work. Sorry. :(

Some improved familiars have more than 3 HD so do have access to multiple feats.
Lycanthromancer
02-28-08, 10:21 AM But they're not familiars before they have those HD, are they?

Some familiars HAVE Hit Dice, but they don't GET Hit Dice once they become familiars, so my point still stands. :)
Racinante
02-28-08, 11:42 AM But they're not familiars before they have those HD, are they?

Some familiars HAVE Hit Dice, but they don't GET Hit Dice once they become familiars, so my point still stands. :)

True.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
heavenisme 01-26-08, 07:59 AM	Do Psicrystals get feats? If so how many? I have a 10th level psion, would that give his psicrystal 4 feats?
jbsaff 01-26-08, 11:19 AM	From the Psionic FAQ Sticky at the top of this forum: Psionic Monster FAQ (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=9178120&postcount=10)
heavenisme 01-26-08, 12:23 PM	So which feats go well with the crystal?
Lycanthromancer 01-26-08, 12:25 PM	What do you use your psicrystal for already? What kind of psion are you using? Make your psicrystal something special with Flyby Attack? Have it use your touch-based powers, maybe? This topic has been done. And lots.
Favored Enemy 01-26-08, 10:40 PM	Do Psicrystals get feats? Only if you ignore WotC's customer service reps who have continuously and consistantly said that Psicrystals do not gain feats.
Slagger the Chuul 01-27-08, 02:50 AM	Only if you ignore WotC's customer service reps who have continuously and consistantly said that Psicrystals do not gain feats. They're supposed to have the statistics given in the monster section of the Expanded Psionics Handbook, with the noted changes, but it seems that a lot of people feel the Hit Dice change automatically overrides the given entries for BAB and feats. I personally don't, but it depends what you think about how it all works, and I still disagree with customer service (since I believe that psicrystals have Alertness).
jbsaff 01-27-08, 02:50 AM	Only if you ignore WotC's customer service reps who have continuously and consistantly said that Psicrystals do not gain feats. Contrary to all game rule evidence. To quote the Psionic FAQ again: I have just concluded an extended question/answer session with Trevor K of CustServ, who was kind enough to relay most of my questions to R&D and get answers from them. Rules as intended: Psicrystals are not intended to get feats. This was straight from the fellows at R&D, who were "adamant" about it, and admitted the rules are confusing. Rules as written: No one, not even R&D, was able to cite a rule overriding the basic monster rules to prevent psicrystals from gaining feats as they gain HD. Thus, rules as written, psicrystals get feats. Trevor hinted that R&D would try to get errata on this subject out soon, though nothing definitive was said. (He was polite, informative, and cooperative. If you have complaints about CustServ, save them; these come from R&D as much as him.) Should they get feats? Figure out what works for your game. Applying the rules as they are written, though, they do get feats. It's not likely to break your game either way.
Paradox-of-Life 01-27-08, 02:56 AM	If they do get feats, make it take wild talent so it gets a PP reserve. That way, it can focus by itself without needing you to charge it. From there, go with psi-containment shenanigans.
Suldarr'essalar 01-27-08, 03:22 AM	At 21st level, psicrystal gains psicrystal power feat. Does it make him a psionic creature?
Slagger the Chuul 01-27-08, 09:00 AM	Should they get feats? Figure out what works for your game. Applying the rules as they are written, though, they do get feats. It's not likely to break your game either way. The evidence reads one of two ways, both technically as the rules are written. It's just a case of whether you apply the instructions in the general (for feats) or the specific (for Alertness) sense. Working on only the provided rules, the question is really whether or not they get more than one feat.
hogarth 01-27-08, 12:15 PM	Do Psicrystals get feats? If so how many? I have a 10th level psion, would that give his psicrystal 4 feats? Ask your DM.
StruckingFuggle 01-27-08, 01:25 PM	...While that's a technically correct answer to any rules issue in dnd, that's also a pretty horrible answer. What is the dm likely to say? What are the rules on the matter and what is the discussion on the matter? Is there a case to make to the DM, for or against?
Tempest Stormwind 01-27-08, 01:33 PM	If they do get feats, make it take wild talent so it gets a PP reserve. That way, it can focus by itself without needing you to charge it. From there, go with psi-containment shenanigans. Not quite. See, if your psicrystal focuses itself via Wild/Hidden Talent, you can't spend that focus any more than you can spend your lurk buddy's focus. The 'special' focus from Psicrystal Containment is expendable by you because the feat lets you do it.
hogarth 01-27-08, 02:48 PM	...While that's a technically correct answer to any rules issue in dnd, that's also a pretty horrible answer. What is the dm likely to say? What are the rules on the matter and what is the discussion on the matter? Is there a case to make to the DM, for or against? In the case where something is genuinely ambiguous (as I feel this issue is), that's all you can do.
awaken_D_M_golem 01-27-08, 03:50 PM	Psicrystals have a Con of -- , so they can't obtain Psionic Focus on their own. Which feats to pick ? Back when the board was more active, there was this thread linky ---> So my Psicrystal gets feats... (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=10636081#post10636081) I think the link will take you to the first build that popped up, and more happen later. And don't forget Scion of Coldshard's Big Guy Is With Me build.
Tempest Stormwind 01-27-08, 06:13 PM	Psicrystals have a Con of -- , so they can't obtain Psionic Focus on their own. Except that things with nonability Constitutions use their Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
Slagger the Chuul 01-27-08, 08:43 PM	Except that things with nonability Constitutions use their Charisma modifier for Concentration checks. Isn't that a specific trait of the undead creature type? Not that it matters, since constructs can still use the +0 modifier for a nonability score.
Tempest Stormwind 01-27-08, 10:04 PM	Isn't that a specific trait of the undead creature type? It might be; I'm a bit out of practice on the nuances of 3.5 (been running Saga for quite some time now), but I seem to recall it working on constructs as well. Still, you're right; in the end it doesn't matter.
CrimsonDeath 01-28-08, 04:27 PM	It might be; I'm a bit out of practice on the nuances of 3.5 (been running Saga for quite some time now), but I seem to recall it working on constructs as well. Still, you're right; in the end it doesn't matter. It's a specific trait of undead, actually. Which is bad news for Green Star Adepts.
Screams 02-26-08, 11:18 PM	ok so when does a psicrystal gain it's feats? lev 1 ? 2? 3? based on its masters level so if human master 2 at level 1?
jbsaff 02-27-08, 01:05 AM	It's a construct. It gets a feat for the 1st HD, another for 3rd, and another for every 3 HD after that (6th, 9th, 12th, etc...). Its HD is as its master's.
AntiDjinn 02-27-08, 02:38 PM	I do not believe it was the author's intent that psicrystals should get feats, but by virtue of the fact they are written up with a standard creature entry and don't say otherwise, they do. If BRC wanted them to have feats, then he has had two additional books (Hyperconscious and CPsi) to publish feats designed for pet rocks or to detail sample manifesters with their psicrystals. He hasn't. So while I don't think they were ever supposed to gain feats in addition to all the goodies they already get, by the rules for creatures they do until WotC says otherwise. For that matter, it would be refreshing to hear from WotC on this since it would mean breaking their code of silence on psicrystals. They won't. It is personal for them now. Notice that among the sample characters with manifester levels published since the XPH: CPsi (6 PrC sample characters), Dragon Magic (1 PrC sample), Complete Adventurer (1 PrC sample), Complete Scoundrel (1 PrC sample), and Elder Evils (Pandorym) exactly none of them even took the feat Psicrystal Affinity. Morvek Thar, the Diamond Dragon, actually spent his 5 feats on: Armor Proficiency (light), and Psionic Talent (X4) rather than sully himself with the more useful Psicrystal Affinity. I am sure there are more manifesters written up in other WotC books; can anyone find an actual write up of a character's pet rock? If they ever put one on paper, they will actually be answering questions about them, and it appears they are determined to never let that happen.
Psionx 02-27-08, 05:10 PM	My opinion is that psicrystals should gain feats. (Familiars should probably gain feats too... but I didn't know that so LIGHTNINGFASTEDIT!)
Lycanthromancer 02-27-08, 05:13 PM	My opinion is that psicrystals should gain feats. (Familiars should probably gain feats too... but I didn't know that so LIGHTNINGFASTEDIT!) My name is Lycanthromancer and I approve of this message.
Psionx 02-27-08, 07:08 PM	My name is Lycanthromancer and I approve of this message. Unfortunately there isn't a smiley for this, but ... :X
Malek2991 02-27-08, 10:57 PM	The rule in the MM states anything with an INT score gets a 1 feat + 1/3HD. Psicrystals, familiars, animal companions, special mounts, etc... all gain feats when they advance in HD.
Lycanthromancer 02-27-08, 11:05 PM	Familiars gain hit points, but not Hit Dice, so it doesn't work. Sorry. :(
Racinante 02-28-08, 10:11 AM	Familiars gain hit points, but not Hit Dice, so it doesn't work. Sorry. :( Some improved familiars have more than 3 HD so do have access to multiple feats.
Lycanthromancer 02-28-08, 10:21 AM	But they're not familiars before they have those HD, are they? Some familiars HAVE Hit Dice, but they don't GET Hit Dice once they become familiars, so my point still stands. :)
Racinante 02-28-08, 11:42 AM	But they're not familiars before they have those HD, are they? Some familiars HAVE Hit Dice, but they don't GET Hit Dice once they become familiars, so my point still stands. :) True.