Do Psions Need a Free Hand to Manifest [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do Psions Need a Free Hand to Manifest [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LostWormOnItsWayHome
03-28-07, 11:17 PM See topic.

Thanks.
JulesCARV
03-28-07, 11:19 PM No.
AntiDjinn
03-28-07, 11:40 PM To manifest? No. To make the power function as intended? Maybe.

Scenario 1: You have no free hand because they have been bound together, you want to manifest Dissipating Touch. You pay the points and make the Concentration check to manifest (do it on the defensive if you might get tagged) you may take circumstance penalties to this roll (e.g., your hands have been bound with electrified razor wire). If you make the roll the power manifests. I you want to actually hit with the power then you have a problem; you can't move your hands to deliver the touch attack. If your intent is to dissolve your bonds then you are in business because it is pretty much an automatic hit. If you manifest Domination to make someone come over and untie you then it will work as long as you don't flub the manifestation because no physical motion is required to deliver the power.

Scenario 2: You can't move because your Dex has been zeroed or you are otherwise held to the point of complete immobility and you want to shoot someone with Crystal Shard. You pay the points and make the roll to manifest (I don't know of any DM who would not give you a distraction/stress penalty for manifesting in such a dire condition) and the power goes off. Actually hitting with it is another matter. Zero Dex is -5 to hit. The DM may rule that you can't take the ranged attack action at all. In that case, the power does manifest, it just misses by a mile.
Tempest Stormwind
03-29-07, 12:33 AM Only to flip the bird at the mage who only now realizes that components are for chumps.

...Yes, even if the power says you use your hand to aim it (i.e. Energy Ray) it can just as easily come from your eyes, so long as the effect is the same. A melee touch attack, though, is goverened by different rules, requiring physical contact with an appendage -- and those powers you *do* need the hand free to deliver.
dnddreamer
03-29-07, 12:47 AM Only to flip the bird at the mage who only now realizes that components are for chumps.

Silly Mage...hahah

Thanks Tempest...I needed that laugh
AntiDjinn
03-29-07, 12:59 AM If you do shoot a ray out of your eye the ranged attack roll is modified by Dex, as always. On one level it seems odd that the stat you use to hit with an arrow fired from a bow, a bolt fired from your finger, a ray from your eye, or a glob of entangling ectoplasm that issues from your astral plane, are the same. But then again, as D&D 3.0-3.5 uses dexterity it is not just physical agility or eye-hand coordination. It seems to also incorporate mental adroitness which is why Dex modifies your initiative even for purely mental actions. It may also include spatial awareness and ability to account for parallax when aiming at distant targets, but in any case it will always be the stat you use to figure your attack bonus.
AntiDjinn
03-29-07, 01:13 AM Then again, maybe a psion who is a total spaz should be able to hit with his ranged powers. As it stands, if you don't have enough points or don't roll well enough to have good Dex then you just need to pick powers that don't have a hit roll. How about:

Ocular Targeting[Psionic]

Prerequisites: Wis 13, Spot 4 ranks.

Benefit: When you manifest a power that requires a ranged attack or ranged touch attack roll to hit you may add your modifier for wisdom instead of dexterity.

Normal: No matter the specifics of a ranged power, your dexterity modifier is applied to the attack roll.

Wisdom is the modifier for Spot so if you are targeting with your eyes then being perceptive is more important than being agile. Or maybe this would be better as metapsionic feat?
NoldorForce
03-29-07, 03:10 AM It's like Zen Archery, except more focused. It seems fine as it is.
WinterPsionic
03-29-07, 02:03 PM ...Yes, even if the power says you use your hand to aim it (i.e. Energy Ray) it can just as easily come from your eyes, so long as the effect is the same. A melee touch attack, though, is goverened by different rules, requiring physical contact with an appendage -- and those powers you *do* need the hand free to deliver.

Just curious here, do any rules actually state it has to be your hand? :D
InkBlot
03-29-07, 02:14 PM No, they don't. The rules state that you have to touch the target somehow (no body part specified), and that if you hold the charge you can deliver it with an unarmed strike ("which may be a punch, kick, head butt, or other type of attack" PHB p121), or a natural attack (PHB p140 - 142).

Psions don't need hands to manifest their powers, but may need a hand to manipulate the effect of the power. For example, if you call a weapon to you with call weaponry then you will need a hand to use it.
AntiDjinn
03-29-07, 11:50 PM Only a few powers specify use of a body part. Stomp, for example, says: "Your foot stomp precipitates a psychokinetic shockwave that travels through the ground" So based on that, if you are paralyzed to the point where you can't move your legs at all then you probably can't get Stomp to function (like you would really be manifesting that power in such a situation anyway). If you can't touch the ground, such as when someone has grabbed you with telekinesis and is holding you in the air, you can't deliver your shockwave to the ground (again, not like it would really be on your short list of powers to use in such a situation). There might be certain creature who can't use the power because they lack feet or because they can't physically strike the ground; I am not really seeing the Unbodied as big users of Stomp. They can use their Assume Likeness ability to appear to have legs, but they retain the incorporeal type so how hard can their feat land?
SlanderPanic
03-30-07, 10:30 AM I don't think the physical force is as important as the mental force. So this glowing, incorporeal wisp of a creature can't push hard enough to shoo a gnat. He can still psionically generate a shockwave that can bowl over your entire party.

I don't think the stomping motion is even necessary. It's flavorful, certainly, but I don't see why you can't manifest the power without it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LostWormOnItsWayHome 03-28-07, 11:17 PM	See topic. Thanks.
JulesCARV 03-28-07, 11:19 PM	No.
AntiDjinn 03-28-07, 11:40 PM	To manifest? No. To make the power function as intended? Maybe. Scenario 1: You have no free hand because they have been bound together, you want to manifest Dissipating Touch. You pay the points and make the Concentration check to manifest (do it on the defensive if you might get tagged) you may take circumstance penalties to this roll (e.g., your hands have been bound with electrified razor wire). If you make the roll the power manifests. I you want to actually hit with the power then you have a problem; you can't move your hands to deliver the touch attack. If your intent is to dissolve your bonds then you are in business because it is pretty much an automatic hit. If you manifest Domination to make someone come over and untie you then it will work as long as you don't flub the manifestation because no physical motion is required to deliver the power. Scenario 2: You can't move because your Dex has been zeroed or you are otherwise held to the point of complete immobility and you want to shoot someone with Crystal Shard. You pay the points and make the roll to manifest (I don't know of any DM who would not give you a distraction/stress penalty for manifesting in such a dire condition) and the power goes off. Actually hitting with it is another matter. Zero Dex is -5 to hit. The DM may rule that you can't take the ranged attack action at all. In that case, the power does manifest, it just misses by a mile.
Tempest Stormwind 03-29-07, 12:33 AM	Only to flip the bird at the mage who only now realizes that components are for chumps. ...Yes, even if the power says you use your hand to aim it (i.e. Energy Ray) it can just as easily come from your eyes, so long as the effect is the same. A melee touch attack, though, is goverened by different rules, requiring physical contact with an appendage -- and those powers you do need the hand free to deliver.
dnddreamer 03-29-07, 12:47 AM	Only to flip the bird at the mage who only now realizes that components are for chumps. Silly Mage...hahah Thanks Tempest...I needed that laugh
AntiDjinn 03-29-07, 12:59 AM	If you do shoot a ray out of your eye the ranged attack roll is modified by Dex, as always. On one level it seems odd that the stat you use to hit with an arrow fired from a bow, a bolt fired from your finger, a ray from your eye, or a glob of entangling ectoplasm that issues from your astral plane, are the same. But then again, as D&D 3.0-3.5 uses dexterity it is not just physical agility or eye-hand coordination. It seems to also incorporate mental adroitness which is why Dex modifies your initiative even for purely mental actions. It may also include spatial awareness and ability to account for parallax when aiming at distant targets, but in any case it will always be the stat you use to figure your attack bonus.
AntiDjinn 03-29-07, 01:13 AM	Then again, maybe a psion who is a total spaz should be able to hit with his ranged powers. As it stands, if you don't have enough points or don't roll well enough to have good Dex then you just need to pick powers that don't have a hit roll. How about: Ocular Targeting[Psionic] Prerequisites: Wis 13, Spot 4 ranks. Benefit: When you manifest a power that requires a ranged attack or ranged touch attack roll to hit you may add your modifier for wisdom instead of dexterity. Normal: No matter the specifics of a ranged power, your dexterity modifier is applied to the attack roll. Wisdom is the modifier for Spot so if you are targeting with your eyes then being perceptive is more important than being agile. Or maybe this would be better as metapsionic feat?
NoldorForce 03-29-07, 03:10 AM	It's like Zen Archery, except more focused. It seems fine as it is.
WinterPsionic 03-29-07, 02:03 PM	...Yes, even if the power says you use your hand to aim it (i.e. Energy Ray) it can just as easily come from your eyes, so long as the effect is the same. A melee touch attack, though, is goverened by different rules, requiring physical contact with an appendage -- and those powers you do need the hand free to deliver. Just curious here, do any rules actually state it has to be your hand? :D
InkBlot 03-29-07, 02:14 PM	No, they don't. The rules state that you have to touch the target somehow (no body part specified), and that if you hold the charge you can deliver it with an unarmed strike ("which may be a punch, kick, head butt, or other type of attack" PHB p121), or a natural attack (PHB p140 - 142). Psions don't need hands to manifest their powers, but may need a hand to manipulate the effect of the power. For example, if you call a weapon to you with call weaponry then you will need a hand to use it.
AntiDjinn 03-29-07, 11:50 PM	Only a few powers specify use of a body part. Stomp, for example, says: "Your foot stomp precipitates a psychokinetic shockwave that travels through the ground" So based on that, if you are paralyzed to the point where you can't move your legs at all then you probably can't get Stomp to function (like you would really be manifesting that power in such a situation anyway). If you can't touch the ground, such as when someone has grabbed you with telekinesis and is holding you in the air, you can't deliver your shockwave to the ground (again, not like it would really be on your short list of powers to use in such a situation). There might be certain creature who can't use the power because they lack feet or because they can't physically strike the ground; I am not really seeing the Unbodied as big users of Stomp. They can use their Assume Likeness ability to appear to have legs, but they retain the incorporeal type so how hard can their feat land?
SlanderPanic 03-30-07, 10:30 AM	I don't think the physical force is as important as the mental force. So this glowing, incorporeal wisp of a creature can't push hard enough to shoo a gnat. He can still psionically generate a shockwave that can bowl over your entire party. I don't think the stomping motion is even necessary. It's flavorful, certainly, but I don't see why you can't manifest the power without it.