Dominate DC problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dominate DC problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Slayn_Bacon
11-07-07, 01:33 PM I wanted to get a higher DC for dominate
Right now i can get about 34
10+4(lvl of spell)+6(augments)+2(feats)+12(int ability mod)=34
I have 5 feats left and i'm wondering if i could use them, beyond the two feats i've already used for the Psionic endowment and Greater Psionic Endomment. Help?
Deekin
11-07-07, 01:57 PM A psionitrix of Telepathy will allow your rasie the DC.

Overchannel lets you boost the amount you can augment.

But really, the highest will save in the Monster manual is +21, so do you really need it that much higher?
PhaedrusXY
11-07-07, 02:02 PM WTH, DC 34 isn't high enough? What is saving against that, anyway? Are you in an Epic game or something?
Slayn_Bacon
11-07-07, 02:08 PM WTH, DC 34 isn't high enough? What is saving against that, anyway? Are you in an Epic game or something?

It's an evil game so i'm more worried about the players. that's why i'm trying for a DC 40 or as close as i can get.
PhaedrusXY
11-07-07, 02:14 PM I would suggest trying to inflict a penalty onto their save, or make them reroll somehow. You are a thrallherd, right? You could get a thrall that is a Hexblade4/Palladin of Tyrrany 3 and inflict -4 to saves. Add some negative levels somehow, and they should fail most of the time. Get a Fatespinner for your other thrall and you can force them to reroll even if they do make it. :P
Slayn_Bacon
11-07-07, 02:34 PM that's what i was going to do with my second thrall lvl 14 OR 13

one grapple one to make there saves go down.

Although the fatespinner may be better than the grappler
hmm any suggestions
crizh
11-07-07, 02:54 PM Metaconcert.

Up to +10 to DC's.

Nuff said....
Slayn_Bacon
11-07-07, 03:04 PM that takes 1min to start though
CrimsonDeath
11-07-07, 03:22 PM Link Power might solve that problem. It's not especially clear. (But then, neither is Metaconcert.)
crizh
11-07-07, 03:26 PM I'm assuming you're high enough level to get around that.

Link Power or a use-activated item are two straight-forward ways around it.

The real problem is protecting the other participants. I favour manifesting it with Transdimensional Power and keeping them all in an extra-dimensional space of some sort but there are loads of other fun ways of achieving the same effect.
PhaedrusXY
11-07-07, 03:42 PM The wording is a bit confusing, but I think a Power Stone of Metaconcert would also only take a Standard Action to activate.
Using a stone’s stored power after addressing the stone requires holding the stone and willing the power’s manifestation, as if manifesting a power normally (a standard action).
A set of Ring Gates is another thing that could be used to keep your followers safe. They stay "home" with one of the rings, and you take the other ring with you.
Slayn_Bacon
11-07-07, 04:04 PM i don't have too much money left over after boosting my int and saves.
CrimsonDeath
11-07-07, 04:25 PM If you can increase the DC by +6 through augmenting and you're not Overchanneling, you're at least level 19. A Psionatrix is only eight grand-- a drop in the bucket by that level.

Ring Gates might be a problem.
Slayn_Bacon
11-07-07, 04:33 PM i have overchannel my bad. and i'm lvl 15 as i said

what book is the psionatix in?

although i don't need overchannel for the dominate since the thrallherd gets the -10 to the cost so it's 1
CrimsonDeath
11-07-07, 04:56 PM Psionatrix is in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, page 175.

Overchannel is so you can increase your manifester level, so that you can augment more, so that you can increase the DC higher.
Slayn_Bacon
11-07-07, 04:59 PM i'd only be able to get it up by +1 with overchannel since it only goes up every 2points and i already used the other odd.and take 5d8
crizh
11-07-07, 05:07 PM Have you spent money on a Tome?

If so you've spent over 100k for only +2 to your DC's. You could either skip it entirely or find a cheaper option. Two power stones of Twinned Reality revision would save you at least 60k depending on your build.
Slayn_Bacon
11-07-07, 05:13 PM yeah i spent 110 on a tome of clear thought.
how many could i get?
crizh
11-07-07, 05:47 PM It's a bit cheesy but, a single Twinned Metapowered Reality Revision overchanneled to ML21 is about 30k. Two of them would save you 50k.
Slayn_Bacon
11-07-07, 05:48 PM what book would this be in?
EonEdge
11-07-07, 06:21 PM born leader feat in the arcana evolved book, +1 to compulsion dcs and +4 to diplomacy checks

illthid compulsion outta CPsi, requires Illthid heritage but also adds 1 to compulsion dcs

that's three feats for +2 dc and no focus expenditure(if your dm will allow you to use Arcana Evoloved)
PhaedrusXY
11-07-07, 06:33 PM It's a bit cheesy but, a single Twinned Metapowered Reality Revision overchanneled to ML21 is about 30k. Two of them would save you 50k. what book would this be in?Everything he mentioned is in Expanded Psionics, or Complete Psionics...

He's suggesting that it is cheaper to pay someone to give you the inherent bonuses with Reality Revision than it is to buy one of those Tomes, if said person has the proper feats (which he gives you).

You could also just dominate a wizard and make him cast Wish on you a bunch of times, or an Efreet, etc. Of course, you'll probably want to kill him afterwards, so he doesn't try to exact some revenge...
EonEdge
11-08-07, 12:27 AM Also for true cheese use Polymorph any Object to turn into a Paragon Illthid, they have an int of 34. use it twice in succession and it becomes permanent.

Now you'll have an int of 34 plus magic goodies putting you up to a max of:

52 Int by 20th level(34base +6 headband +5 reality revision +5 level +2 ioun stone). Thats a base dc for all powers of 31.

If you want it to be truely obscene here is the highest I can think of:

58(10 + 21 int + 4 power + 8 augments + 10 metaconcert + 2 greater psionic endowment + 1 illthid compulsion + 1 born leader + 1 psionatrix of telepathy).

That requires a will save of greater than 38 to save against it more than 5% of the time.

I know that there are probably better paragon creatures out there but I used this one becasue it is a monster in the Epic Level Handbook.
PhaedrusXY
11-08-07, 12:49 AM 1) You can't Polymorph into things with templates.
2) Paragon is a template.
EonEdge
11-08-07, 12:56 AM 1) You can't Polymorph into things with templates.
2) Paragon is a template.

is this in the erratta? in the spell description polymorph it has no such limitation
PhaedrusXY
11-08-07, 01:06 AM is this in the erratta? in the spell description polymorph it has no such limitationPolymorph is based on Alter Self, except where stated otherwise. Alter Self has the limitation.

Besides, if you could polymorph into things with templates, why stop at one template? Why not be a paragon pseudonatural half (every color) dragon fiendish void-mind dire weasel, or something?

It's probably in the FAQ too, but I'm not looking it up for you. :P

This thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=589497) does a pretty good job of summarizing Polymorph and the many changes it has went through. There is also a four-part series of Rules of the Game articles on Polymorph and related spells. You can find the links to them within the thread I posted a link to. Here is the first one: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040511a
EonEdge
11-08-07, 01:15 AM fair enough, i can't unzip files where i'm at and therefore have no access to the faq, but upon rereading alter self i do see that line.

that seems pretty lame to me though, i can turn into a half orc or a half elf but not a half dragon? as far as using multiple templates i didn't suggest that cause the paragon mindflayer is an actual monater from a book with stat blocks and all.

so what would be the highest valid int creature for PaO?
PhaedrusXY
11-08-07, 01:20 AM I can't remember if it is limited to 15 hit dice or not. I think there is a bit of a contradiction there, since you can obviously turn things into creatures with more hit dice than they started out with. The example shrew to manticore proves that. You can also turn things into objects, and vice versa, which have no hit dice at all.

I do believe that the "Sage" said you can't go over 15 hit dice, though. Black Ethergaunt would be the best one I know, if it is legal (I think it has 16 or 17 hit dice). It's in the Fiend Folio, and has an int of 36 I think.
EonEdge
11-08-07, 01:33 AM the RAW says 15 HD, nothing to contradict it. i looked through 3.0 MM and all i can find is 22 with a Nalfeshnee or a Planetar but both are outsiders and not valid. I think the regular mind flayer is 19 and that's it.
PhaedrusXY
11-08-07, 02:20 AM You can turn into an outsider if you are one to start with, and there are ways to be one with little or no level adjustment.
CrimsonDeath
11-08-07, 03:26 AM There is also a four-part series of Rules of the Game articles on Polymorph and related spells.

Although that series is now horribly outdated. (But it might still apply to Metamorphosis...)

so what would be the highest valid int creature for PaO?

Black Ethergaunt is a popular choice, although I have no clue what book it's in.
Omen_of_Peace
11-08-07, 06:13 AM Black Ethergaunt is a popular choice, although I have no clue what book it's in.

The Fiend Folio.
EonEdge
11-08-07, 07:14 PM black (int 31) has 16 hit dice, so it's invalid, but white ethergaunt (int 27) only has 11 hit dice. that is by far the best so far

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Slayn_Bacon 11-07-07, 01:33 PM	I wanted to get a higher DC for dominate Right now i can get about 34 10+4(lvl of spell)+6(augments)+2(feats)+12(int ability mod)=34 I have 5 feats left and i'm wondering if i could use them, beyond the two feats i've already used for the Psionic endowment and Greater Psionic Endomment. Help?
Deekin 11-07-07, 01:57 PM	A psionitrix of Telepathy will allow your rasie the DC. Overchannel lets you boost the amount you can augment. But really, the highest will save in the Monster manual is +21, so do you really need it that much higher?
PhaedrusXY 11-07-07, 02:02 PM	WTH, DC 34 isn't high enough? What is saving against that, anyway? Are you in an Epic game or something?
Slayn_Bacon 11-07-07, 02:08 PM	WTH, DC 34 isn't high enough? What is saving against that, anyway? Are you in an Epic game or something? It's an evil game so i'm more worried about the players. that's why i'm trying for a DC 40 or as close as i can get.
PhaedrusXY 11-07-07, 02:14 PM	I would suggest trying to inflict a penalty onto their save, or make them reroll somehow. You are a thrallherd, right? You could get a thrall that is a Hexblade4/Palladin of Tyrrany 3 and inflict -4 to saves. Add some negative levels somehow, and they should fail most of the time. Get a Fatespinner for your other thrall and you can force them to reroll even if they do make it. :P
Slayn_Bacon 11-07-07, 02:34 PM	that's what i was going to do with my second thrall lvl 14 OR 13 one grapple one to make there saves go down. Although the fatespinner may be better than the grappler hmm any suggestions
crizh 11-07-07, 02:54 PM	Metaconcert. Up to +10 to DC's. Nuff said....
Slayn_Bacon 11-07-07, 03:04 PM	that takes 1min to start though
CrimsonDeath 11-07-07, 03:22 PM	Link Power might solve that problem. It's not especially clear. (But then, neither is Metaconcert.)
crizh 11-07-07, 03:26 PM	I'm assuming you're high enough level to get around that. Link Power or a use-activated item are two straight-forward ways around it. The real problem is protecting the other participants. I favour manifesting it with Transdimensional Power and keeping them all in an extra-dimensional space of some sort but there are loads of other fun ways of achieving the same effect.
PhaedrusXY 11-07-07, 03:42 PM	The wording is a bit confusing, but I think a Power Stone of Metaconcert would also only take a Standard Action to activate. Using a stone’s stored power after addressing the stone requires holding the stone and willing the power’s manifestation, as if manifesting a power normally (a standard action). A set of Ring Gates is another thing that could be used to keep your followers safe. They stay "home" with one of the rings, and you take the other ring with you.
Slayn_Bacon 11-07-07, 04:04 PM	i don't have too much money left over after boosting my int and saves.
CrimsonDeath 11-07-07, 04:25 PM	If you can increase the DC by +6 through augmenting and you're not Overchanneling, you're at least level 19. A Psionatrix is only eight grand-- a drop in the bucket by that level. Ring Gates might be a problem.
Slayn_Bacon 11-07-07, 04:33 PM	i have overchannel my bad. and i'm lvl 15 as i said what book is the psionatix in? although i don't need overchannel for the dominate since the thrallherd gets the -10 to the cost so it's 1
CrimsonDeath 11-07-07, 04:56 PM	Psionatrix is in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, page 175. Overchannel is so you can increase your manifester level, so that you can augment more, so that you can increase the DC higher.
Slayn_Bacon 11-07-07, 04:59 PM	i'd only be able to get it up by +1 with overchannel since it only goes up every 2points and i already used the other odd.and take 5d8
crizh 11-07-07, 05:07 PM	Have you spent money on a Tome? If so you've spent over 100k for only +2 to your DC's. You could either skip it entirely or find a cheaper option. Two power stones of Twinned Reality revision would save you at least 60k depending on your build.
Slayn_Bacon 11-07-07, 05:13 PM	yeah i spent 110 on a tome of clear thought. how many could i get?
crizh 11-07-07, 05:47 PM	It's a bit cheesy but, a single Twinned Metapowered Reality Revision overchanneled to ML21 is about 30k. Two of them would save you 50k.
Slayn_Bacon 11-07-07, 05:48 PM	what book would this be in?
EonEdge 11-07-07, 06:21 PM	born leader feat in the arcana evolved book, +1 to compulsion dcs and +4 to diplomacy checks illthid compulsion outta CPsi, requires Illthid heritage but also adds 1 to compulsion dcs that's three feats for +2 dc and no focus expenditure(if your dm will allow you to use Arcana Evoloved)
PhaedrusXY 11-07-07, 06:33 PM	It's a bit cheesy but, a single Twinned Metapowered Reality Revision overchanneled to ML21 is about 30k. Two of them would save you 50k. what book would this be in?Everything he mentioned is in Expanded Psionics, or Complete Psionics... He's suggesting that it is cheaper to pay someone to give you the inherent bonuses with Reality Revision than it is to buy one of those Tomes, if said person has the proper feats (which he gives you). You could also just dominate a wizard and make him cast Wish on you a bunch of times, or an Efreet, etc. Of course, you'll probably want to kill him afterwards, so he doesn't try to exact some revenge...
EonEdge 11-08-07, 12:27 AM	Also for true cheese use Polymorph any Object to turn into a Paragon Illthid, they have an int of 34. use it twice in succession and it becomes permanent. Now you'll have an int of 34 plus magic goodies putting you up to a max of: 52 Int by 20th level(34base +6 headband +5 reality revision +5 level +2 ioun stone). Thats a base dc for all powers of 31. If you want it to be truely obscene here is the highest I can think of: 58(10 + 21 int + 4 power + 8 augments + 10 metaconcert + 2 greater psionic endowment + 1 illthid compulsion + 1 born leader + 1 psionatrix of telepathy). That requires a will save of greater than 38 to save against it more than 5% of the time. I know that there are probably better paragon creatures out there but I used this one becasue it is a monster in the Epic Level Handbook.
PhaedrusXY 11-08-07, 12:49 AM	1) You can't Polymorph into things with templates. 2) Paragon is a template.
EonEdge 11-08-07, 12:56 AM	1) You can't Polymorph into things with templates. 2) Paragon is a template. is this in the erratta? in the spell description polymorph it has no such limitation
PhaedrusXY 11-08-07, 01:06 AM	is this in the erratta? in the spell description polymorph it has no such limitationPolymorph is based on Alter Self, except where stated otherwise. Alter Self has the limitation. Besides, if you could polymorph into things with templates, why stop at one template? Why not be a paragon pseudonatural half (every color) dragon fiendish void-mind dire weasel, or something? It's probably in the FAQ too, but I'm not looking it up for you. :P This thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=589497) does a pretty good job of summarizing Polymorph and the many changes it has went through. There is also a four-part series of Rules of the Game articles on Polymorph and related spells. You can find the links to them within the thread I posted a link to. Here is the first one: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040511a
EonEdge 11-08-07, 01:15 AM	fair enough, i can't unzip files where i'm at and therefore have no access to the faq, but upon rereading alter self i do see that line. that seems pretty lame to me though, i can turn into a half orc or a half elf but not a half dragon? as far as using multiple templates i didn't suggest that cause the paragon mindflayer is an actual monater from a book with stat blocks and all. so what would be the highest valid int creature for PaO?
PhaedrusXY 11-08-07, 01:20 AM	I can't remember if it is limited to 15 hit dice or not. I think there is a bit of a contradiction there, since you can obviously turn things into creatures with more hit dice than they started out with. The example shrew to manticore proves that. You can also turn things into objects, and vice versa, which have no hit dice at all. I do believe that the "Sage" said you can't go over 15 hit dice, though. Black Ethergaunt would be the best one I know, if it is legal (I think it has 16 or 17 hit dice). It's in the Fiend Folio, and has an int of 36 I think.
EonEdge 11-08-07, 01:33 AM	the RAW says 15 HD, nothing to contradict it. i looked through 3.0 MM and all i can find is 22 with a Nalfeshnee or a Planetar but both are outsiders and not valid. I think the regular mind flayer is 19 and that's it.
PhaedrusXY 11-08-07, 02:20 AM	You can turn into an outsider if you are one to start with, and there are ways to be one with little or no level adjustment.
CrimsonDeath 11-08-07, 03:26 AM	There is also a four-part series of Rules of the Game articles on Polymorph and related spells. Although that series is now horribly outdated. (But it might still apply to Metamorphosis...) so what would be the highest valid int creature for PaO? Black Ethergaunt is a popular choice, although I have no clue what book it's in.
Omen_of_Peace 11-08-07, 06:13 AM	Black Ethergaunt is a popular choice, although I have no clue what book it's in. The Fiend Folio.
EonEdge 11-08-07, 07:14 PM	black (int 31) has 16 hit dice, so it's invalid, but white ethergaunt (int 27) only has 11 hit dice. that is by far the best so far