Ectoplasmic Coccoon-- Now what? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ectoplasmic Coccoon-- Now what? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CrimsonDeath
09-28-07, 12:51 PM Alright, I've caught an enemy in an Ectoplasmic Coccoon. Now what do I do with him? I can't CDG him, because he's in the coccoon. I can't manifest other powers on him, because he's in the coccoon. In a few rounds, he'll be out, perfectly fine, and still angry.

I've heard this power mentioned as a "save-or-die" type, but I can't figure out how to kill somebody after I've hit them with it. It really seems more like a "divide-up-the-battle" power, like Time Hop.
InkBlot
09-28-07, 12:53 PM Throw him in a lake. He can't swim and the coccoon isn't air tight.

I don't know why anyone would say ecto cocoon is a save-or-die. It's firmly in the save-or-screwed category. Like all save-or-screwed powers it can make it easier to kill someone (in the right situation), but doesn't kill them outright.

This is a lot easier with mass ecto cocoon. It lasts hours.
CrimsonDeath
09-28-07, 01:54 PM I didn't realize there was such a subtle distinction between save-or-die and save-or-screwed.

Do you think Burrowing Power would be helpful against a Coccooned creature?
Manus
09-28-07, 02:06 PM You can use the rounds to wipe up his buddies. Or heal. Or buff. Or flee if he's too powerful. Or summon allies.
hovnarr
09-28-07, 02:41 PM You know that hole that enables near the cocooned creature's nostrils that enables it to breathe? Jam a screwdriver in there and pound it in with a hammer. After you kill his allies.
InkBlot
09-28-07, 02:45 PM Do you think Burrowing Power would be helpful against a Coccooned creature?
Yes, it would.

But as Manus said, there are better things to do with the time that ecto cocoon gives you. Buffing, summoning, setting up traps, moving to flank, wiping out his buddies, just moving on past him, etc. are all more power-point efficient than blasting the cocooned guy. These other options are also more fun for the other players. They get to participate instead of just sitting back and watching your fireworks show.

Do you have wall of ectoplasm and energy wall? You could create a circular energy wall around the cocooned enemy, then create a dome-shaped wall of ectoplasm around the energy wall to keep the cocooned creature from escaping. The energy wall will do 140d6+140 damage before the duration of the wall of ectoplasm ends.

Cold damage is divided by 4 before subtracting hardness, so the 2d6+2 every round from the energy wall will never ever get past the 5 hardness of the wall of ectoplasm.

Fire damage is only halved, so it will occasionally damage the wall of ectoplasm, but it might damage it slowly enough to not matter. I don't want to do the math right now.
AntiDjinn
09-28-07, 03:44 PM Since the 3.0 version the preferred methods of dispatchment have centered on the fact that the subject can (and still needs to) breathe. Tossing him in a body of water works, if one is handy. Another method, taking advantage of the fact that the subject's nostrils are not covered, involves a funnel, a mallet, and a vial of acid. If you are an illithid, just insert a tadpole. The fact is, you have many options while the coccooned subject has few, hence it is a save or be hosed power.
CrimsonDeath
09-28-07, 03:53 PM Do you have wall of ectoplasm and energy wall?

I don't actually have a character at the moment (although I'm building one). This was more of a theoretical question.
Thomar_of_Uointer
09-29-07, 12:10 AM Alright, I've caught an enemy in an Ectoplasmic Coccoon. Now what do I do with him? I can't CDG him, because he's in the coccoon. I can't manifest other powers on him, because he's in the coccoon. In a few rounds, he'll be out, perfectly fine, and still angry.

I've heard this power mentioned as a "save-or-die" type, but I can't figure out how to kill somebody after I've hit them with it. It really seems more like a "divide-up-the-battle" power, like Time Hop.

Yeah, that's about right. It's good for taking melee tanks or Vancian casters out of the picture for a while.

Also, the spell specifically notes that the cocoon is air-permeable. Inhaled poisons work. You could also just chuck him into a lake (also mentioned specifically).

Although the spell doesn't specifically note this, you may be able to throw him into things. This is up to the DM, but he may be subject to falling damage.
DracoPhoenix
10-05-07, 03:58 AM Yes, the strength of this power isn't so much what you can do to him, but what he can't do.

Like cast spells, make reflex saves, attack etc.

Though how a DM can rule knocking him prone and thrusting your sword through ear to ear doesn't kill him just highlights how much rules trump common sense in the game :(.
Omen_of_Peace
10-05-07, 04:43 AM I agree : this power denies actions, or protects an ally close to death (or worse).

Though how a DM can rule knocking him prone and thrusting your sword through ear to ear doesn't kill him just highlights how much rules trump common sense in the game :(.

I'm curious : how is that related to Ectoplasmic Cocoon ?
Ryuu_Tenshi
10-05-07, 06:59 AM You can also Do Something Else.

Here's an example, using the first time I played a psion:

My party was attacked by three brine shrimp (sandstorm). My character, having failed both his spot and listen checks (he had dismal wisdom), turned around only to get grappled (pretty dismal strength, too)

He manifested Ectoplasmic Cocoon (made his concentration check. My first -good- roll of the evening >.<) The thing had to drop him, and then spend the next several rounds trapped.

My character proceeded to summon a construct and to snipe the other two shrimp with Energy Ray as cover fire for the rest of my party. By the time the shrimp in the cocoon got out, the other two were dead, and my party was able to gang up on it and kill it no problem.

So in some ways, it can work a little like Time Hop: take a monster out of the fight for a little while. in the meantime you go and do something else. Also, it's BRILLIANT for getting out of grapples, especially later when you can augment it to target larger creatures. Y'know that Huge crab that's grappling you? It ain't anymore.
DracoPhoenix
10-05-07, 07:02 AM I'm curious : how is that related to Ectoplasmic Cocoon ?

It was more of an observation - one of my DMs plays "if it's not in the rules it has no effect", which is a pain when you want to throw pepper dust in someones eyes (common sense would at least daze for a round, but) with the above DM it has no effect whatsoever because there's not an item entry.(/:rant:)

If the guy is completely encased in the Ecto-Cocoon and you stab him (anywhere) with a sword, you at most crit him. (ok, possibly coup de grace him)

Despite putting your sword through his vital organs (e.g. brain). With no miss chance...
hovnarr
10-05-07, 08:21 AM when you want to throw pepper dust in someones eyes (common sense would at least daze for a round, but) with the above DM it has no effect whatsoever because there's not an item entry

Go buy some Dust of Sneezing and Choking. It's one of the most broken items in all of core, right up there with candle of invocation. And hey, it's all statted up.
DracoPhoenix
10-05-07, 08:51 AM Go buy some Dust of Sneezing and Choking. It's one of the most broken items in all of core, right up there with candle of invocation. And hey, it's all statted up.

Which book is that in? :) I have access to most books, apart from the more recent releases.
Omen_of_Peace
10-05-07, 09:50 AM IIf the guy is completely encased in the Ecto-Cocoon and you stab him (anywhere) with a sword, you at most crit him. (ok, possibly coup de grace him)

Despite putting your sword through his vital organs (e.g. brain). With no miss chance...
I don't get how you do that.
Cutting or damaging the cocoon can free a victim. The cocoon has hardness 8 and 20 hit points. Teleportation and other forms of travel provide a means of escape, but the cocoon extends into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel. An ectoplasmic cocoon can’t be affected by dispel psionics, but it can be dismissed with dismiss ectoplasm, or otherwise destroyed by extreme measures or items.
The creature within the cocoon is visible only as a vague shape (substantial enough to interrupt line of sight) and cannot be directly harmed or interacted with unless the cocoon is destroyed. The cocooned creature can be moved normally (the weight of the cocoon is negligible).

The aforementioned Dust is a cursed item from the SRD/DMG - 2500gp for a no save stun that lasts several rounds.
Rageheart
10-05-07, 10:33 AM It was more of an observation - one of my DMs plays "if it's not in the rules it has no effect", which is a pain when you want to throw pepper dust in someones eyes (common sense would at least daze for a round, but) with the above DM it has no effect whatsoever because there's not an item entry.(/:rant:)...

Go buy some Dust of Sneezing and Choking. It's one of the most broken items in all of core, right up there with candle of invocation. And hey, it's all statted up.

I had a 2nd Ed Gnome Illusionist named Kylin Picante who use a pound of Cayenne pepper mixed in a water skin and a hankercheif, along with the "Wrap" cantrip to brutal effect... (think of a pepperspray that holds on) :D
DracoPhoenix
10-05-07, 10:51 AM I don't get how you do that.

The aforementioned Dust is a cursed item from the SRD/DMG - 2500gp for a no save stun that lasts several rounds.

Thanks - and the coup de grace bit was a mix up on the rules - forgot it was more like time hop than brain lock.
Sagetim
10-05-07, 02:13 PM Alright, I've caught an enemy in an Ectoplasmic Coccoon. Now what do I do with him? I can't CDG him, because he's in the coccoon. I can't manifest other powers on him, because he's in the coccoon. In a few rounds, he'll be out, perfectly fine, and still angry.

I've heard this power mentioned as a "save-or-die" type, but I can't figure out how to kill somebody after I've hit them with it. It really seems more like a "divide-up-the-battle" power, like Time Hop.

you take your alabaster bottle of hyper poison and force them to chug it. They have breathing holes, right around their nose and mouth to be precise. So all you have to do is force them to either get drunk or very very poisoned.
Lycanthromancer
10-05-07, 02:24 PM I don't think there are 'breathing holes' so much as the coccoon isn't air-tight. It's like porous rubber; you can breathe through it, but not much else.
Sagetim
10-05-07, 02:51 PM I don't think there are 'breathing holes' so much as the coccoon isn't air-tight. It's like porous rubber; you can breathe through it, but not much else.

but it says no matter who you used it on it can stil breathe. A fish requires water for that, so it has to allow liquid through...
Kyuketsukiouji
10-06-07, 08:33 AM Ah, telepathy. How I love your lack of line of effect...

Or clouds. Clouds are good. Nothing like a good Cloudkill to make someone's helplessness that much more amusing when they realise that yes, the fact that they can breathe in the cocoon isn't helping them one bit.
Thomar_of_Uointer
10-06-07, 12:02 PM Ah, telepathy. How I love your lack of line of effect...

Or clouds. Clouds are good. Nothing like a good Cloudkill to make someone's helplessness that much more amusing when they realise that yes, the fact that they can breathe in the cocoon isn't helping them one bit.

Mind-affecting powers still require line of effect (as they don't say anything otherwise).
Lycanthromancer
10-06-07, 12:31 PM but it says no matter who you used it on it can stil breathe. A fish requires water for that, so it has to allow liquid through...Right. Like I said.
Sagetim
10-07-07, 02:35 PM Right. Like I said.

wait, I've got it! use psionic minor creation to create a liquid tight wooden bowl over them, then have the bowl full of poison. That way they have to breathe poison.
Lycanthromancer
10-07-07, 09:22 PM How many rounds are you planning on having them trapped?
AntiDjinn
10-07-07, 09:37 PM Once I have someone trapped with Ectoplasmic Cocoon, I am generally not into spending more points on Minor Creation or other powers to dispatch them. I would just use the time while they are trapped to kill off the rest of their party. Then have the entire party surround and hold action to attack them while prone as soon as the cocoon dissipates (nothing in the description says they can't be tripped while cocooned).

If you really want to poison the subject, the do so before applying the cocoon so the healers on his side can't get at him to neutralize the poison. In fact, any ongoing or continuous damage effect would work. Unlike Time Hop, time actually is passing for the subject, but because he is shrink-wrapped no one can assist him.
Sagetim
10-08-07, 01:04 AM Once I have someone trapped with Ectoplasmic Cocoon, I am generally not into spending more points on Minor Creation or other powers to dispatch them. I would just use the time while they are trapped to kill off the rest of their party. Then have the entire party surround and hold action to attack them while prone as soon as the cocoon dissipates (nothing in the description says they can't be tripped while cocooned).

If you really want to poison the subject, the do so before applying the cocoon so the healers on his side can't get at him to neutralize the poison. In fact, any ongoing or continuous damage effect would work. Unlike Time Hop, time actually is passing for the subject, but because he is shrink-wrapped no one can assist him.

yeah....I still like the idea of dumping someone in a vat of poison though. heheh...you could always ecto coon a harpy out of flight....that would be fun to watch...
CrimsonDeath
10-08-07, 01:14 AM A vial of poison is pretty expensive. A vat would be ridiculous.

Use water. It's cheap, and just as deadly.
AntiDjinn
10-08-07, 02:16 AM A vial of poison is pretty expensive. A vat would be ridiculous.

Use water. It's cheap, and just as deadly.
Also much less hazardous for you to work with given the 5% chance to dose yourself every time you attempt to employ a poison. You don't want poison all over your victim's stuff because that is your loot. If it just happens to get wet then you have clean loot instead of toxic loot.
DracoPhoenix
10-08-07, 03:26 AM Also much less hazardous for you to work with given the 5% chance to dose yourself every time you attempt to employ a poison. You don't want poison all over your victim's stuff because that is your loot. If it just happens to get wet then you have clean loot instead of toxic loot.

How about minor creation & prestidigitation? free poison & clean up in one. Or just wait a bit for MC to expire.

If you're just filling up a bucket and dunking his head in, you should get a + modifier to the handle poison check. Also, gloves. :)

edit :
You go away for one weekend, and lose track of the last post you read :rolleyes:.

Well, your call, but 1pp vs expensive & dangerous actual poison, sounds the safer option.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrimsonDeath 09-28-07, 12:51 PM	Alright, I've caught an enemy in an Ectoplasmic Coccoon. Now what do I do with him? I can't CDG him, because he's in the coccoon. I can't manifest other powers on him, because he's in the coccoon. In a few rounds, he'll be out, perfectly fine, and still angry. I've heard this power mentioned as a "save-or-die" type, but I can't figure out how to kill somebody after I've hit them with it. It really seems more like a "divide-up-the-battle" power, like Time Hop.
InkBlot 09-28-07, 12:53 PM	Throw him in a lake. He can't swim and the coccoon isn't air tight. I don't know why anyone would say ecto cocoon is a save-or-die. It's firmly in the save-or-screwed category. Like all save-or-screwed powers it can make it easier to kill someone (in the right situation), but doesn't kill them outright. This is a lot easier with mass ecto cocoon. It lasts hours.
CrimsonDeath 09-28-07, 01:54 PM	I didn't realize there was such a subtle distinction between save-or-die and save-or-screwed. Do you think Burrowing Power would be helpful against a Coccooned creature?
Manus 09-28-07, 02:06 PM	You can use the rounds to wipe up his buddies. Or heal. Or buff. Or flee if he's too powerful. Or summon allies.
hovnarr 09-28-07, 02:41 PM	You know that hole that enables near the cocooned creature's nostrils that enables it to breathe? Jam a screwdriver in there and pound it in with a hammer. After you kill his allies.
InkBlot 09-28-07, 02:45 PM	Do you think Burrowing Power would be helpful against a Coccooned creature? Yes, it would. But as Manus said, there are better things to do with the time that ecto cocoon gives you. Buffing, summoning, setting up traps, moving to flank, wiping out his buddies, just moving on past him, etc. are all more power-point efficient than blasting the cocooned guy. These other options are also more fun for the other players. They get to participate instead of just sitting back and watching your fireworks show. Do you have wall of ectoplasm and energy wall? You could create a circular energy wall around the cocooned enemy, then create a dome-shaped wall of ectoplasm around the energy wall to keep the cocooned creature from escaping. The energy wall will do 140d6+140 damage before the duration of the wall of ectoplasm ends. Cold damage is divided by 4 before subtracting hardness, so the 2d6+2 every round from the energy wall will never ever get past the 5 hardness of the wall of ectoplasm. Fire damage is only halved, so it will occasionally damage the wall of ectoplasm, but it might damage it slowly enough to not matter. I don't want to do the math right now.
AntiDjinn 09-28-07, 03:44 PM	Since the 3.0 version the preferred methods of dispatchment have centered on the fact that the subject can (and still needs to) breathe. Tossing him in a body of water works, if one is handy. Another method, taking advantage of the fact that the subject's nostrils are not covered, involves a funnel, a mallet, and a vial of acid. If you are an illithid, just insert a tadpole. The fact is, you have many options while the coccooned subject has few, hence it is a save or be hosed power.
CrimsonDeath 09-28-07, 03:53 PM	Do you have wall of ectoplasm and energy wall? I don't actually have a character at the moment (although I'm building one). This was more of a theoretical question.
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-29-07, 12:10 AM	Alright, I've caught an enemy in an Ectoplasmic Coccoon. Now what do I do with him? I can't CDG him, because he's in the coccoon. I can't manifest other powers on him, because he's in the coccoon. In a few rounds, he'll be out, perfectly fine, and still angry. I've heard this power mentioned as a "save-or-die" type, but I can't figure out how to kill somebody after I've hit them with it. It really seems more like a "divide-up-the-battle" power, like Time Hop. Yeah, that's about right. It's good for taking melee tanks or Vancian casters out of the picture for a while. Also, the spell specifically notes that the cocoon is air-permeable. Inhaled poisons work. You could also just chuck him into a lake (also mentioned specifically). Although the spell doesn't specifically note this, you may be able to throw him into things. This is up to the DM, but he may be subject to falling damage.
DracoPhoenix 10-05-07, 03:58 AM	Yes, the strength of this power isn't so much what you can do to him, but what he can't do. Like cast spells, make reflex saves, attack etc. Though how a DM can rule knocking him prone and thrusting your sword through ear to ear doesn't kill him just highlights how much rules trump common sense in the game :(.
Omen_of_Peace 10-05-07, 04:43 AM	I agree : this power denies actions, or protects an ally close to death (or worse). Though how a DM can rule knocking him prone and thrusting your sword through ear to ear doesn't kill him just highlights how much rules trump common sense in the game :(. I'm curious : how is that related to Ectoplasmic Cocoon ?
Ryuu_Tenshi 10-05-07, 06:59 AM	You can also Do Something Else. Here's an example, using the first time I played a psion: My party was attacked by three brine shrimp (sandstorm). My character, having failed both his spot and listen checks (he had dismal wisdom), turned around only to get grappled (pretty dismal strength, too) He manifested Ectoplasmic Cocoon (made his concentration check. My first -good- roll of the evening >.<) The thing had to drop him, and then spend the next several rounds trapped. My character proceeded to summon a construct and to snipe the other two shrimp with Energy Ray as cover fire for the rest of my party. By the time the shrimp in the cocoon got out, the other two were dead, and my party was able to gang up on it and kill it no problem. So in some ways, it can work a little like Time Hop: take a monster out of the fight for a little while. in the meantime you go and do something else. Also, it's BRILLIANT for getting out of grapples, especially later when you can augment it to target larger creatures. Y'know that Huge crab that's grappling you? It ain't anymore.
DracoPhoenix 10-05-07, 07:02 AM	I'm curious : how is that related to Ectoplasmic Cocoon ? It was more of an observation - one of my DMs plays "if it's not in the rules it has no effect", which is a pain when you want to throw pepper dust in someones eyes (common sense would at least daze for a round, but) with the above DM it has no effect whatsoever because there's not an item entry.(/:rant:) If the guy is completely encased in the Ecto-Cocoon and you stab him (anywhere) with a sword, you at most crit him. (ok, possibly coup de grace him) Despite putting your sword through his vital organs (e.g. brain). With no miss chance...
hovnarr 10-05-07, 08:21 AM	when you want to throw pepper dust in someones eyes (common sense would at least daze for a round, but) with the above DM it has no effect whatsoever because there's not an item entry Go buy some Dust of Sneezing and Choking. It's one of the most broken items in all of core, right up there with candle of invocation. And hey, it's all statted up.
DracoPhoenix 10-05-07, 08:51 AM	Go buy some Dust of Sneezing and Choking. It's one of the most broken items in all of core, right up there with candle of invocation. And hey, it's all statted up. Which book is that in? :) I have access to most books, apart from the more recent releases.
Omen_of_Peace 10-05-07, 09:50 AM	IIf the guy is completely encased in the Ecto-Cocoon and you stab him (anywhere) with a sword, you at most crit him. (ok, possibly coup de grace him) Despite putting your sword through his vital organs (e.g. brain). With no miss chance... I don't get how you do that. Cutting or damaging the cocoon can free a victim. The cocoon has hardness 8 and 20 hit points. Teleportation and other forms of travel provide a means of escape, but the cocoon extends into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel. An ectoplasmic cocoon can’t be affected by dispel psionics, but it can be dismissed with dismiss ectoplasm, or otherwise destroyed by extreme measures or items. The creature within the cocoon is visible only as a vague shape (substantial enough to interrupt line of sight) and cannot be directly harmed or interacted with unless the cocoon is destroyed. The cocooned creature can be moved normally (the weight of the cocoon is negligible). The aforementioned Dust is a cursed item from the SRD/DMG - 2500gp for a no save stun that lasts several rounds.
Rageheart 10-05-07, 10:33 AM	It was more of an observation - one of my DMs plays "if it's not in the rules it has no effect", which is a pain when you want to throw pepper dust in someones eyes (common sense would at least daze for a round, but) with the above DM it has no effect whatsoever because there's not an item entry.(/:rant:)... Go buy some Dust of Sneezing and Choking. It's one of the most broken items in all of core, right up there with candle of invocation. And hey, it's all statted up. I had a 2nd Ed Gnome Illusionist named Kylin Picante who use a pound of Cayenne pepper mixed in a water skin and a hankercheif, along with the "Wrap" cantrip to brutal effect... (think of a pepperspray that holds on) :D
DracoPhoenix 10-05-07, 10:51 AM	I don't get how you do that. The aforementioned Dust is a cursed item from the SRD/DMG - 2500gp for a no save stun that lasts several rounds. Thanks - and the coup de grace bit was a mix up on the rules - forgot it was more like time hop than brain lock.
Sagetim 10-05-07, 02:13 PM	Alright, I've caught an enemy in an Ectoplasmic Coccoon. Now what do I do with him? I can't CDG him, because he's in the coccoon. I can't manifest other powers on him, because he's in the coccoon. In a few rounds, he'll be out, perfectly fine, and still angry. I've heard this power mentioned as a "save-or-die" type, but I can't figure out how to kill somebody after I've hit them with it. It really seems more like a "divide-up-the-battle" power, like Time Hop. you take your alabaster bottle of hyper poison and force them to chug it. They have breathing holes, right around their nose and mouth to be precise. So all you have to do is force them to either get drunk or very very poisoned.
Lycanthromancer 10-05-07, 02:24 PM	I don't think there are 'breathing holes' so much as the coccoon isn't air-tight. It's like porous rubber; you can breathe through it, but not much else.
Sagetim 10-05-07, 02:51 PM	I don't think there are 'breathing holes' so much as the coccoon isn't air-tight. It's like porous rubber; you can breathe through it, but not much else. but it says no matter who you used it on it can stil breathe. A fish requires water for that, so it has to allow liquid through...
Kyuketsukiouji 10-06-07, 08:33 AM	Ah, telepathy. How I love your lack of line of effect... Or clouds. Clouds are good. Nothing like a good Cloudkill to make someone's helplessness that much more amusing when they realise that yes, the fact that they can breathe in the cocoon isn't helping them one bit.
Thomar_of_Uointer 10-06-07, 12:02 PM	Ah, telepathy. How I love your lack of line of effect... Or clouds. Clouds are good. Nothing like a good Cloudkill to make someone's helplessness that much more amusing when they realise that yes, the fact that they can breathe in the cocoon isn't helping them one bit. Mind-affecting powers still require line of effect (as they don't say anything otherwise).
Lycanthromancer 10-06-07, 12:31 PM	but it says no matter who you used it on it can stil breathe. A fish requires water for that, so it has to allow liquid through...Right. Like I said.
Sagetim 10-07-07, 02:35 PM	Right. Like I said. wait, I've got it! use psionic minor creation to create a liquid tight wooden bowl over them, then have the bowl full of poison. That way they have to breathe poison.
Lycanthromancer 10-07-07, 09:22 PM	How many rounds are you planning on having them trapped?
AntiDjinn 10-07-07, 09:37 PM	Once I have someone trapped with Ectoplasmic Cocoon, I am generally not into spending more points on Minor Creation or other powers to dispatch them. I would just use the time while they are trapped to kill off the rest of their party. Then have the entire party surround and hold action to attack them while prone as soon as the cocoon dissipates (nothing in the description says they can't be tripped while cocooned). If you really want to poison the subject, the do so before applying the cocoon so the healers on his side can't get at him to neutralize the poison. In fact, any ongoing or continuous damage effect would work. Unlike Time Hop, time actually is passing for the subject, but because he is shrink-wrapped no one can assist him.
Sagetim 10-08-07, 01:04 AM	Once I have someone trapped with Ectoplasmic Cocoon, I am generally not into spending more points on Minor Creation or other powers to dispatch them. I would just use the time while they are trapped to kill off the rest of their party. Then have the entire party surround and hold action to attack them while prone as soon as the cocoon dissipates (nothing in the description says they can't be tripped while cocooned). If you really want to poison the subject, the do so before applying the cocoon so the healers on his side can't get at him to neutralize the poison. In fact, any ongoing or continuous damage effect would work. Unlike Time Hop, time actually is passing for the subject, but because he is shrink-wrapped no one can assist him. yeah....I still like the idea of dumping someone in a vat of poison though. heheh...you could always ecto coon a harpy out of flight....that would be fun to watch...
CrimsonDeath 10-08-07, 01:14 AM	A vial of poison is pretty expensive. A vat would be ridiculous. Use water. It's cheap, and just as deadly.
AntiDjinn 10-08-07, 02:16 AM	A vial of poison is pretty expensive. A vat would be ridiculous. Use water. It's cheap, and just as deadly. Also much less hazardous for you to work with given the 5% chance to dose yourself every time you attempt to employ a poison. You don't want poison all over your victim's stuff because that is your loot. If it just happens to get wet then you have clean loot instead of toxic loot.
DracoPhoenix 10-08-07, 03:26 AM	Also much less hazardous for you to work with given the 5% chance to dose yourself every time you attempt to employ a poison. You don't want poison all over your victim's stuff because that is your loot. If it just happens to get wet then you have clean loot instead of toxic loot. How about minor creation & prestidigitation? free poison & clean up in one. Or just wait a bit for MC to expire. If you're just filling up a bucket and dunking his head in, you should get a + modifier to the handle poison check. Also, gloves. :) edit : You go away for one weekend, and lose track of the last post you read :rolleyes:. Well, your call, but 1pp vs expensive & dangerous actual poison, sounds the safer option.