Ectoplasmic Form & Invisibility [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ectoplasmic Form & Invisibility [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pukunui
08-30-07, 04:54 AM **Players in my Absolut Doom Redux campaign - stay away!!!**

Hi everyone!

One of my players is playing a wizard/psion. We're doing the Red Hand of Doom module and we're in the ruins of Rhest scenario. The PCs have just destroyed the Bell Tower garrison and are in the process of retreating to the shore under cover of heavy rain. They plan on having the wizard/psion assume ectoplasmic form and invisibility before going back into the ruins to scout out what else might be awaiting them ...

I'm just wondering whether the combination of ectoplasmic form and invisibility will make him completely undetectable or not.

There's a dragon in the ruins. Would he be able to detect the PC with his blindsense? There is also a psion/mindbender who could probably detect the PC if he knew he was there to be detected, but I don't know that there's any way for him to know that.

I'm not looking for a way to thwart my player. I just want to know how the bad guys should react, if at all, to invisible floating snot ...

The game's on tomorrow night, so be quick!

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Jonny

p.s. I've posted this in the DM forum as well.
RavinRay
08-30-07, 07:29 AM I'm just wondering whether the combination of ectoplasmic form and invisibility will make him completely undetectable or not.
Not at all. He's not incorporeal, so if his Move Silently skill is defeated by an opponent's Listen check, his presence (but not necessarily his location) would be known.
There's a dragon in the ruins. Would he be able to detect the PC with his blindsense? There is also a psion/mindbender who could probably detect the PC if he knew he was there to be detected, but I don't know that there's any way for him to know that.
The dragon would know his presence. Aura sight ought to detect him in three rounds centered on his location.
CrimsonDeath
08-30-07, 12:33 PM The dragon would know his presence. Aura sight ought to detect him in three rounds centered on his location.
Unless he moves every round.
pukunui
08-30-07, 04:36 PM Not at all. He's not incorporeal, so if his Move Silently skill is defeated by an opponent's Listen check, his presence (but not necessarily his location) would be known.OK so as a blob of Astral snot, I suppose if he's not careful he could make audible squelching noises or something as he floats through the air? My apologies if that comes across as rude. I'm just trying to get my head around it ...

The dragon would know his presence. Aura sight ought to detect him in three rounds centered on his location.OK great. The enemy psion doesn't have aura sight, so that's not an option but thanks. I had considered giving him dismiss ectoplasm but I decided that would just be too mean. Plus, I couldn't come up with a good in-game reason for him to know it. However, if both psions survive to clash again another day ... :evillaugh
CrimsonDeath
08-30-07, 08:54 PM OK so as a blob of Astral snot, I suppose if he's not careful he could make audible squelching noises or something as he floats through the air? My apologies if that comes across as rude. I'm just trying to get my head around it ...
Fly doesn't grant a Move Silently bonus either. Try to wrap your head around that.

Basically, it's up to the DM (or the player, if the DM wants to foster creativity) to decide what sorts of noise the character is making. But, as written, the power does not specifically grant a bonus on Move Silently checks or state that the character is inaudible, so he makes noise when he moves.
pukunui
08-30-07, 09:41 PM While, I suppose your clothes would flap around in the air as you fly ... but yes, you're right. So a floating blob of goo would still make some noises, which I imagine would be of the *squelch* variety.

However, at least it will be raining. I'll give his opponents a circumstance penalty on their Listen checks because of it.
sijigs
08-30-07, 09:54 PM I know this might be a mean move but give your bad guys mindsight feat. That will seriously put a dent in their plans unless they're contructs/undead or have anti-telepathy.

Mindsight
A creature that has this feat possesses innate telepathic ability that allows it to precisely pinpoint other thinking beings
within range of its telepathy. The creature perceives where the others are and how powerful their intellects are.

Prerequisite: Telepathy special quality.

Benefit: A creature that has this feat can detect and pinpoint beings that are not mindless (anything with an Intelligence
score of 1 or higher) within range of its telepathy. This works much like blindsense―the creature knows what square each
thinking being is in, but it does not see the being, and the being still has total concealment unless the creature can see
it by some other means.

The creature also perceives several observable characteristics about each being detected with mindsight, including the
being's type and Intelligence score. The creature need not take any additional or special actions to gain this information; it is as obvious to mindsight as the being's race and clothing would be to eyesight.

Normal: Telepathy offers no special ability to sense other minds. The creature has to know that a being is there to communicate with it telepathically.

This might be a bit mean tho. Your call.

Ka pai, cuz.
pukunui
08-30-07, 10:11 PM That is pretty mean, sijigs. If anything, I should be easing up on the PCs ... I'm expecting tonight's session to either result in a TPK or a route with the PCs fleeing and, ultimately, failing this part of the adventure ... which is fine but failure carries some not-so-nice consequences with it.

The enemy psion is actually a psion/mindbender, so he's already got Telepathy out to 100ft. I'm pretty sure he can only use it with people he can see, though, eh?

Whereabouts in New Zealand are you, sijigs? Just curious.
sijigs
08-30-07, 10:24 PM Shhh.. Same city as you. I'm out Avondale ways.

It works similar to blindsense. So as long as the PCs don't have total cover or underwater (debatable) or anti-telepathy then you can sense them.

Key wording is Line of Effect (see PHB/DMG).

It screws with invisibility etc... enjoy.
pukunui
08-30-07, 10:27 PM Shhh.. Same city as you. I'm out Avondale ways.You're kidding! I live in New Windsor, which according to some is just part of Avondale ...

It works similar to blindsense. So as long as the PCs don't have total cover or underwater (debatable) or anti-telepathy then you can sense them.

Key wording is Line of Effect (see PHB/DMG).

It screws with invisibility etc... enjoy.OK cool I'll trawl through the rulebooks before the session tonight to make sure I'm on top of everything.
sijigs
08-30-07, 11:05 PM Cool. Enjoy tonight. :D
CrimsonDeath
08-31-07, 03:59 AM OK cool I'll trawl through the rulebooks before the session tonight to make sure I'm on top of everything.
Mindsight is in "Lords of Madness", in the chapter on the Tsochar, in case you were wondering.
pukunui
08-31-07, 09:05 AM Mindsight is in "Lords of Madness", in the chapter on the Tsochar, in case you were wondering.
I thought I'd read it before. Thanks.

The session went well. The wiz/psion got discovered by the dragon. He went into the ruins invisible but didn't manifest ectoplasmic form right away ... and it got dispelled by the enemy psion. The PC got hit with two of the dragon's breath weapon attacks, but he'd had the foresight to manifest energy adaptation (acid) on himself first. He then escaped and fled into a rope trick hideout he'd cast from a scroll.

Thanks for all your help!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pukunui 08-30-07, 04:54 AM	Players in my Absolut Doom Redux campaign - stay away!!! Hi everyone! One of my players is playing a wizard/psion. We're doing the Red Hand of Doom module and we're in the ruins of Rhest scenario. The PCs have just destroyed the Bell Tower garrison and are in the process of retreating to the shore under cover of heavy rain. They plan on having the wizard/psion assume ectoplasmic form and invisibility before going back into the ruins to scout out what else might be awaiting them ... I'm just wondering whether the combination of ectoplasmic form and invisibility will make him completely undetectable or not. There's a dragon in the ruins. Would he be able to detect the PC with his blindsense? There is also a psion/mindbender who could probably detect the PC if he knew he was there to be detected, but I don't know that there's any way for him to know that. I'm not looking for a way to thwart my player. I just want to know how the bad guys should react, if at all, to invisible floating snot ... The game's on tomorrow night, so be quick! Thanks in advance. Cheers, Jonny p.s. I've posted this in the DM forum as well.
RavinRay 08-30-07, 07:29 AM	I'm just wondering whether the combination of ectoplasmic form and invisibility will make him completely undetectable or not. Not at all. He's not incorporeal, so if his Move Silently skill is defeated by an opponent's Listen check, his presence (but not necessarily his location) would be known. There's a dragon in the ruins. Would he be able to detect the PC with his blindsense? There is also a psion/mindbender who could probably detect the PC if he knew he was there to be detected, but I don't know that there's any way for him to know that. The dragon would know his presence. Aura sight ought to detect him in three rounds centered on his location.
CrimsonDeath 08-30-07, 12:33 PM	The dragon would know his presence. Aura sight ought to detect him in three rounds centered on his location. Unless he moves every round.
pukunui 08-30-07, 04:36 PM	Not at all. He's not incorporeal, so if his Move Silently skill is defeated by an opponent's Listen check, his presence (but not necessarily his location) would be known.OK so as a blob of Astral snot, I suppose if he's not careful he could make audible squelching noises or something as he floats through the air? My apologies if that comes across as rude. I'm just trying to get my head around it ... The dragon would know his presence. Aura sight ought to detect him in three rounds centered on his location.OK great. The enemy psion doesn't have aura sight, so that's not an option but thanks. I had considered giving him dismiss ectoplasm but I decided that would just be too mean. Plus, I couldn't come up with a good in-game reason for him to know it. However, if both psions survive to clash again another day ... :evillaugh
CrimsonDeath 08-30-07, 08:54 PM	OK so as a blob of Astral snot, I suppose if he's not careful he could make audible squelching noises or something as he floats through the air? My apologies if that comes across as rude. I'm just trying to get my head around it ... Fly doesn't grant a Move Silently bonus either. Try to wrap your head around that. Basically, it's up to the DM (or the player, if the DM wants to foster creativity) to decide what sorts of noise the character is making. But, as written, the power does not specifically grant a bonus on Move Silently checks or state that the character is inaudible, so he makes noise when he moves.
pukunui 08-30-07, 09:41 PM	While, I suppose your clothes would flap around in the air as you fly ... but yes, you're right. So a floating blob of goo would still make some noises, which I imagine would be of the squelch variety. However, at least it will be raining. I'll give his opponents a circumstance penalty on their Listen checks because of it.
sijigs 08-30-07, 09:54 PM	I know this might be a mean move but give your bad guys mindsight feat. That will seriously put a dent in their plans unless they're contructs/undead or have anti-telepathy. Mindsight A creature that has this feat possesses innate telepathic ability that allows it to precisely pinpoint other thinking beings within range of its telepathy. The creature perceives where the others are and how powerful their intellects are. Prerequisite: Telepathy special quality. Benefit: A creature that has this feat can detect and pinpoint beings that are not mindless (anything with an Intelligence score of 1 or higher) within range of its telepathy. This works much like blindsense―the creature knows what square each thinking being is in, but it does not see the being, and the being still has total concealment unless the creature can see it by some other means. The creature also perceives several observable characteristics about each being detected with mindsight, including the being's type and Intelligence score. The creature need not take any additional or special actions to gain this information; it is as obvious to mindsight as the being's race and clothing would be to eyesight. Normal: Telepathy offers no special ability to sense other minds. The creature has to know that a being is there to communicate with it telepathically. This might be a bit mean tho. Your call. Ka pai, cuz.
pukunui 08-30-07, 10:11 PM	That is pretty mean, sijigs. If anything, I should be easing up on the PCs ... I'm expecting tonight's session to either result in a TPK or a route with the PCs fleeing and, ultimately, failing this part of the adventure ... which is fine but failure carries some not-so-nice consequences with it. The enemy psion is actually a psion/mindbender, so he's already got Telepathy out to 100ft. I'm pretty sure he can only use it with people he can see, though, eh? Whereabouts in New Zealand are you, sijigs? Just curious.
sijigs 08-30-07, 10:24 PM	Shhh.. Same city as you. I'm out Avondale ways. It works similar to blindsense. So as long as the PCs don't have total cover or underwater (debatable) or anti-telepathy then you can sense them. Key wording is Line of Effect (see PHB/DMG). It screws with invisibility etc... enjoy.
pukunui 08-30-07, 10:27 PM	Shhh.. Same city as you. I'm out Avondale ways.You're kidding! I live in New Windsor, which according to some is just part of Avondale ... It works similar to blindsense. So as long as the PCs don't have total cover or underwater (debatable) or anti-telepathy then you can sense them. Key wording is Line of Effect (see PHB/DMG). It screws with invisibility etc... enjoy.OK cool I'll trawl through the rulebooks before the session tonight to make sure I'm on top of everything.
sijigs 08-30-07, 11:05 PM	Cool. Enjoy tonight. :D
CrimsonDeath 08-31-07, 03:59 AM	OK cool I'll trawl through the rulebooks before the session tonight to make sure I'm on top of everything. Mindsight is in "Lords of Madness", in the chapter on the Tsochar, in case you were wondering.
pukunui 08-31-07, 09:05 AM	Mindsight is in "Lords of Madness", in the chapter on the Tsochar, in case you were wondering. I thought I'd read it before. Thanks. The session went well. The wiz/psion got discovered by the dragon. He went into the ruins invisible but didn't manifest ectoplasmic form right away ... and it got dispelled by the enemy psion. The PC got hit with two of the dragon's breath weapon attacks, but he'd had the foresight to manifest energy adaptation (acid) on himself first. He then escaped and fled into a rope trick hideout he'd cast from a scroll. Thanks for all your help!