Ectoplasms effect on ghosts [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ectoplasms effect on ghosts [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
heavenisme
12-27-07, 05:44 PM Another Noob Question:

Astral Constructs, Ectoplasmic form, Entangleing ectoplasm....

Do any of these effect incorpreal creatures?
hovnarr
12-27-07, 05:51 PM No more than powers or spells in general do. That is, they are 50% likely to work. To pawn incorporeal creatures, you must learn the ways of the [force] type effects. Telekinetic Maneuver is the tech.

EDIT: To clarify, this applies to Entangling Ectoplasm. Astral Construct produces a creature. If the AC has DR X/magic, it strikes as a magic weapon and has a chance to hurt incorporeal. Ectoplasmic Form has no specific interaction with incorporeal creatures worth noting.
The_Mess
12-27-07, 06:11 PM Flavor-wise, those abilities take material from a non-corporeal plane, but they bring it into our reality, at which point it's as solid as any other material. It's no longer ectoplasmic at that point, so has no special relationship with incorporeal creatures.
mod5000
12-27-07, 06:16 PM If the AC has DR X/magic, it strikes as a magic weapon and has a chance to hurt incorporeal.
I think they took this out in 3.5; now monsters with DR don't strike as that DR for their natural weapons.
CrimsonDeath
12-27-07, 07:51 PM I think they took this out in 3.5; now monsters with DR don't strike as that DR for their natural weapons.

Not quite.

A creature with DR/magic overcomes DR as though it had DR/magic. However, it can't strike incorporeal creatures unless it natural weapons actually have an enhancement bonus.

Note that a level 7, 8, or 9 Astral Construct could have Concussion Blast or Energy Bolt as a Menu C ability. As Psi-Like abilities, these can harm incorporeal creatures. As a Force effect, Concussion Blast is guaranteed to hit.
Suspect_Unusual
12-27-07, 08:54 PM I think they took this out in 3.5; now monsters with DR don't strike as that DR for their natural weapons.

It might still be in place (i'd have to check the SRD), but regardless... the way it's worded (either specific or in general), you strike as a magic weapon for the purposes of damage reduction only, not for the incorporeality miss chance or any other purpose.

SRD quote:

Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Guess that answers both questions.
mod5000
12-28-07, 04:59 PM Not quite.

A creature with DR/magic overcomes DR as though it had DR/magic. However, it can't strike incorporeal creatures unless it natural weapons actually have an enhancement bonus.
Just wondering, where does it say that? I've searched the MM and can't find it :-(
InkBlot
12-28-07, 05:37 PM Even if ectoplasmic powers don't have any special affect on ghosts, powers that affect ectoplasm should. Namely, dismiss ectoplasm and detain ectoplasm. It's hard to imagine something ruder than destroying a ghost and using it's ectoplasm to make a piece of bathroom tissue with psionic minor creation.
Jaid
12-28-07, 05:41 PM It's hard to imagine something ruder than destroying a ghost and using it's ectoplasm to make a piece of bathroom tissue with psionic minor creation.

well, you could *use* the piece of bathroom tissue =P
CrimsonDeath
12-28-07, 11:54 PM Just wondering, where does it say that? I've searched the MM and can't find it :-(

The rules don't usually tell you what you can't do, only what you can do. In the Damage Reduction entry in the MM Glossary, it states that the natural weapons of a creature with DR/magic strikes as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Such creatures aren't described as striking as a magic weapon for any other purpose, so they don't.

well, you could *use* the piece of bathroom tissue =P

And what would the average D&D character use it for? Most games I've been in sort of gloss over that.
mod5000
12-29-07, 01:19 AM The rules don't usually tell you what you can't do, only what you can do. In the Damage Reduction entry in the MM Glossary, it states that the natural weapons of a creature with DR/magic strikes as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Such creatures aren't described as striking as a magic weapon for any other purpose, so they don't.
Thanks--had forgotten to check the DR information in the glossary. Exactly what I was looking for. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
heavenisme 12-27-07, 05:44 PM	Another Noob Question: Astral Constructs, Ectoplasmic form, Entangleing ectoplasm.... Do any of these effect incorpreal creatures?
hovnarr 12-27-07, 05:51 PM	No more than powers or spells in general do. That is, they are 50% likely to work. To pawn incorporeal creatures, you must learn the ways of the [force] type effects. Telekinetic Maneuver is the tech. EDIT: To clarify, this applies to Entangling Ectoplasm. Astral Construct produces a creature. If the AC has DR X/magic, it strikes as a magic weapon and has a chance to hurt incorporeal. Ectoplasmic Form has no specific interaction with incorporeal creatures worth noting.
The_Mess 12-27-07, 06:11 PM	Flavor-wise, those abilities take material from a non-corporeal plane, but they bring it into our reality, at which point it's as solid as any other material. It's no longer ectoplasmic at that point, so has no special relationship with incorporeal creatures.
mod5000 12-27-07, 06:16 PM	If the AC has DR X/magic, it strikes as a magic weapon and has a chance to hurt incorporeal. I think they took this out in 3.5; now monsters with DR don't strike as that DR for their natural weapons.
CrimsonDeath 12-27-07, 07:51 PM	I think they took this out in 3.5; now monsters with DR don't strike as that DR for their natural weapons. Not quite. A creature with DR/magic overcomes DR as though it had DR/magic. However, it can't strike incorporeal creatures unless it natural weapons actually have an enhancement bonus. Note that a level 7, 8, or 9 Astral Construct could have Concussion Blast or Energy Bolt as a Menu C ability. As Psi-Like abilities, these can harm incorporeal creatures. As a Force effect, Concussion Blast is guaranteed to hit.
Suspect_Unusual 12-27-07, 08:54 PM	I think they took this out in 3.5; now monsters with DR don't strike as that DR for their natural weapons. It might still be in place (i'd have to check the SRD), but regardless... the way it's worded (either specific or in general), you strike as a magic weapon for the purposes of damage reduction only, not for the incorporeality miss chance or any other purpose. SRD quote: Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Guess that answers both questions.
mod5000 12-28-07, 04:59 PM	Not quite. A creature with DR/magic overcomes DR as though it had DR/magic. However, it can't strike incorporeal creatures unless it natural weapons actually have an enhancement bonus. Just wondering, where does it say that? I've searched the MM and can't find it :-(
InkBlot 12-28-07, 05:37 PM	Even if ectoplasmic powers don't have any special affect on ghosts, powers that affect ectoplasm should. Namely, dismiss ectoplasm and detain ectoplasm. It's hard to imagine something ruder than destroying a ghost and using it's ectoplasm to make a piece of bathroom tissue with psionic minor creation.
Jaid 12-28-07, 05:41 PM	It's hard to imagine something ruder than destroying a ghost and using it's ectoplasm to make a piece of bathroom tissue with psionic minor creation. well, you could use the piece of bathroom tissue =P
CrimsonDeath 12-28-07, 11:54 PM	Just wondering, where does it say that? I've searched the MM and can't find it :-( The rules don't usually tell you what you can't do, only what you can do. In the Damage Reduction entry in the MM Glossary, it states that the natural weapons of a creature with DR/magic strikes as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Such creatures aren't described as striking as a magic weapon for any other purpose, so they don't. well, you could use the piece of bathroom tissue =P And what would the average D&D character use it for? Most games I've been in sort of gloss over that.
mod5000 12-29-07, 01:19 AM	The rules don't usually tell you what you can't do, only what you can do. In the Damage Reduction entry in the MM Glossary, it states that the natural weapons of a creature with DR/magic strikes as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Such creatures aren't described as striking as a magic weapon for any other purpose, so they don't. Thanks--had forgotten to check the DR information in the glossary. Exactly what I was looking for. :)