Elan and other "psionic races" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elan and other "psionic races" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lia The Sun Elf Wizard
03-29-08, 07:27 PM The 2 additional power points an elan has goes w/ him/her when s/he levels up? Or just in the 1st level s/he'll have these 2 additional power points?
Anyr
03-29-08, 07:31 PM They retain the bonus throughout their lives, which for an Elan could be a very long time indeed.
calronmoonflower
03-29-08, 08:10 PM You get just the two unless you get more from other sources. In case of that they stack.

As some might get confused power points from class levels increase along with your manifester level (bonus power points) as well as the listed mount for the class.
The_Mess
03-29-08, 11:00 PM Note that while Elan and most other psionic races (you mentioned others in the thread title, so I thought I'd expand) only get the "naturally psionic" bonus once, and that's all they get, there is one race that's a little different. The Kalashtar from the Eberron setting get 1 pp/level.
InkBlot
03-29-08, 11:01 PM Also, make sure to check the XPH errata. Elan have no maximum age. They're immortal.
CrimsonDeath
03-29-08, 11:05 PM Because I'm not sure either of those answers was absolutely crystal clear...

Most characters with racial PP only get a set amount of racial PP. For example, an Elan only has two racial PP ever. (Some races do gain additional racial PP as they gain levels, like the Kalashtar. These races will specifically state that this is the case.)

If a character with racial PP gains PP from some other source (such as psionic feats or a psionic class), those PP are added to the character's racial PP. For example, an Elan psion has two more PP than an otherwise identical Elf Psion.
AntiDjinn
03-29-08, 11:29 PM If you are asking if these additional power points are lost when you level up to 2nd, then No they are not. They don't increase, but they don't go away.
Bacris
03-30-08, 12:06 AM Rules reference:

Power Points/Day: A psion’s ability to manifest powers is limited by the power points he has available. His base daily allotment of power points is given on Table: The Psion. In addition, he receives bonus power points per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Power Points). His race may also provide bonus power points per day, as may certain feats and items.

In essence, those bonus points are bonus points per day. Wild Talent / Hidden Talent / Psionic Talent work the same way.

I think you're misconstruing what the "1st level" means.

A 2nd level druid gets Woodland Stride. She doesn't lose it at 3rd level.

Same principle.
AntiDjinn
03-30-08, 12:10 PM Very few things in D&D are tied to a specific character level and then lost on the next level up. Action Points would be one, the artificer's craft reserve points another: They are use-it-or-loose-it and are stated as such. You get more of each resource at the next level, but the resource is replaced rather than carried over. Power points don't work that way.
jokey665
03-31-08, 11:19 PM Also, make sure to check the XPH errata. Elan have no maximum age. They're immortal.

Slight nitpick, but Elans are eternal, not immortal. Immortal implies unable to die, period. Eternal means doesn't die unless killed.
The_Mess
03-31-08, 11:54 PM I would have said eternal was pretty much the same as immortal. A better word for Elan would be ageless... except that they gave them age categories in the book, just no maximum age.

I suppose the most correct term would be "without obsolescence", but that's not going to make many people happy.
CrimsonDeath
04-01-08, 01:49 AM Slight nitpick, but Elans are eternal, not immortal. Immortal implies unable to die, period. Eternal means doesn't die unless killed.

Yes. Elan die when they are killed.
Eikre
04-01-08, 07:24 AM Silly. Psions never get killed!
Orenmir
04-01-08, 11:10 PM I would have said eternal was pretty much the same as immortal.

When describing races, there is a difference between the two.

Eternal = Tolkien's Elves
Immortal = MacLeod the Highlander

The Elf will live forever, unless you stab him in the heart (or other critical trauma). MacLeod will live forever, even if you stab him in the heart. There's a big difference.

Elans are eternal.

The terms themselves are up for debate, but their definitive difference is irrefutable.
Mercurius
04-01-08, 11:23 PM But Macleod will die if you cut off his head.

So, yeah...

I like to think of it as "life until death."
Orenmir
04-01-08, 11:27 PM But Macleod will die if you cut off his head.

So, yeah...

I like to think of it as "life until death."

OK, bad analogy. Try this one instead:

Eternal = live forever, but you can still die
Immortal = you can not die

The point is, there is a difference. And, Elans are not immortal.
calronmoonflower
04-01-08, 11:36 PM Immortality is actually an ability in D&D. You can find it on page 92 of the Draconomicon and it only means that you do not need to eat, sleep, or breath and cannot die of natural causes.

It also states that you can be slain.
Orenmir
04-01-08, 11:43 PM Immortality is actually an ability in D&D. You can find it on page 92 of the Draconomicon and it only means that you do not need to eat, sleep, or breath and cannot die of natural causes.

It also states that you can be slain.

The nomenclature is exactly what I was referring to by this statement:

The terms themselves are up for debate, but their definitive difference is irrefutable.

Choose whatever terminology you want for the words Eternal and Immortal, the point is that there is a difference between the two.

1. Able to live forever, yet can still die
2. Can not die

Elans are #1.
calronmoonflower
04-02-08, 12:35 AM Two has been proved wrong.
Orenmir
04-02-08, 12:44 AM Two has been proved wrong.

Agreed. Which is why I said:
Elans are #1.

My point was to explain the difference.

I can't think of any D&D race that falls under #2.
calronmoonflower
04-02-08, 12:51 AM Huh, that's not what I meant. Immortality has a definition by the Rules as Written and it isn't number two.
The_Mess
04-02-08, 01:34 AM A roleplaying game misusing an English word, NEVER!

I agree that "immortal (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immortal)" is the wrong word, both as applied to Elan and as to the feat. However, "eternal (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eternal)" is also wrong. "Eternal" is actually worse a description than "immortal" because "eternal" implies that the subject also cannot change.

"Ageless" works after the Elan has gained the final age category as they don't age any further, but doesn't work before that point.

I'm not sure English really has a good word for the situation, although "incorruptible (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incorruptible)" comes close.
Orenmir
04-02-08, 09:52 AM A roleplaying game misusing an English word, NEVER!

I agree that "immortal (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immortal)" is the wrong word, both as applied to Elan and as to the feat. However, "eternal (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eternal)" is also wrong. "Eternal" is actually worse a description than "immortal" because "eternal" implies that the subject also cannot change.

"Ageless" works after the Elan has gained the final age category as they don't age any further, but doesn't work before that point.

I'm not sure English really has a good word for the situation, although "incorruptible (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incorruptible)" comes close.

A very good point, which I wholeheartedly agree with. I think you more descriptively explained what I've been try to... The nomenclature is not important. What is important is understanding the difference between the two concepts: Able To Live Forever -VS- Unable To Die. They are very different (the former can die, the latter can not).
AntiDjinn
04-02-08, 01:40 PM Immortal as a biologic term works just fine. An immortal cell line is one that has been transformed such that it will never undergo apoptosis (programmed cell death). Immortal cell lines do not age -- they will continue to divide indefinitely -- but they are not indestructible since they can still be killed and will die if not kept under appropriate conditions. That, biologically, is what immortal means; having no predetermined lifespan or expiration date.

And lest you all decide to run out and try to achieve immortality by having your cells transformed into immortal cells, you already know another term for unlimited cell replication without apoptosis or contact inhibition: Cancer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lia The Sun Elf Wizard 03-29-08, 07:27 PM	The 2 additional power points an elan has goes w/ him/her when s/he levels up? Or just in the 1st level s/he'll have these 2 additional power points?
Anyr 03-29-08, 07:31 PM	They retain the bonus throughout their lives, which for an Elan could be a very long time indeed.
calronmoonflower 03-29-08, 08:10 PM	You get just the two unless you get more from other sources. In case of that they stack. As some might get confused power points from class levels increase along with your manifester level (bonus power points) as well as the listed mount for the class.
The_Mess 03-29-08, 11:00 PM	Note that while Elan and most other psionic races (you mentioned others in the thread title, so I thought I'd expand) only get the "naturally psionic" bonus once, and that's all they get, there is one race that's a little different. The Kalashtar from the Eberron setting get 1 pp/level.
InkBlot 03-29-08, 11:01 PM	Also, make sure to check the XPH errata. Elan have no maximum age. They're immortal.
CrimsonDeath 03-29-08, 11:05 PM	Because I'm not sure either of those answers was absolutely crystal clear... Most characters with racial PP only get a set amount of racial PP. For example, an Elan only has two racial PP ever. (Some races do gain additional racial PP as they gain levels, like the Kalashtar. These races will specifically state that this is the case.) If a character with racial PP gains PP from some other source (such as psionic feats or a psionic class), those PP are added to the character's racial PP. For example, an Elan psion has two more PP than an otherwise identical Elf Psion.
AntiDjinn 03-29-08, 11:29 PM	If you are asking if these additional power points are lost when you level up to 2nd, then No they are not. They don't increase, but they don't go away.
Bacris 03-30-08, 12:06 AM	Rules reference: Power Points/Day: A psion’s ability to manifest powers is limited by the power points he has available. His base daily allotment of power points is given on Table: The Psion. In addition, he receives bonus power points per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Power Points). His race may also provide bonus power points per day, as may certain feats and items. In essence, those bonus points are bonus points per day. Wild Talent / Hidden Talent / Psionic Talent work the same way. I think you're misconstruing what the "1st level" means. A 2nd level druid gets Woodland Stride. She doesn't lose it at 3rd level. Same principle.
AntiDjinn 03-30-08, 12:10 PM	Very few things in D&D are tied to a specific character level and then lost on the next level up. Action Points would be one, the artificer's craft reserve points another: They are use-it-or-loose-it and are stated as such. You get more of each resource at the next level, but the resource is replaced rather than carried over. Power points don't work that way.
jokey665 03-31-08, 11:19 PM	Also, make sure to check the XPH errata. Elan have no maximum age. They're immortal. Slight nitpick, but Elans are eternal, not immortal. Immortal implies unable to die, period. Eternal means doesn't die unless killed.
The_Mess 03-31-08, 11:54 PM	I would have said eternal was pretty much the same as immortal. A better word for Elan would be ageless... except that they gave them age categories in the book, just no maximum age. I suppose the most correct term would be "without obsolescence", but that's not going to make many people happy.
CrimsonDeath 04-01-08, 01:49 AM	Slight nitpick, but Elans are eternal, not immortal. Immortal implies unable to die, period. Eternal means doesn't die unless killed. Yes. Elan die when they are killed.
Eikre 04-01-08, 07:24 AM	Silly. Psions never get killed!
Orenmir 04-01-08, 11:10 PM	I would have said eternal was pretty much the same as immortal. When describing races, there is a difference between the two. Eternal = Tolkien's Elves Immortal = MacLeod the Highlander The Elf will live forever, unless you stab him in the heart (or other critical trauma). MacLeod will live forever, even if you stab him in the heart. There's a big difference. Elans are eternal. The terms themselves are up for debate, but their definitive difference is irrefutable.
Mercurius 04-01-08, 11:23 PM	But Macleod will die if you cut off his head. So, yeah... I like to think of it as "life until death."
Orenmir 04-01-08, 11:27 PM	But Macleod will die if you cut off his head. So, yeah... I like to think of it as "life until death." OK, bad analogy. Try this one instead: Eternal = live forever, but you can still die Immortal = you can not die The point is, there is a difference. And, Elans are not immortal.
calronmoonflower 04-01-08, 11:36 PM	Immortality is actually an ability in D&D. You can find it on page 92 of the Draconomicon and it only means that you do not need to eat, sleep, or breath and cannot die of natural causes. It also states that you can be slain.
Orenmir 04-01-08, 11:43 PM	Immortality is actually an ability in D&D. You can find it on page 92 of the Draconomicon and it only means that you do not need to eat, sleep, or breath and cannot die of natural causes. It also states that you can be slain. The nomenclature is exactly what I was referring to by this statement: The terms themselves are up for debate, but their definitive difference is irrefutable. Choose whatever terminology you want for the words Eternal and Immortal, the point is that there is a difference between the two. 1. Able to live forever, yet can still die 2. Can not die Elans are #1.
calronmoonflower 04-02-08, 12:35 AM	Two has been proved wrong.
Orenmir 04-02-08, 12:44 AM	Two has been proved wrong. Agreed. Which is why I said: Elans are #1. My point was to explain the difference. I can't think of any D&D race that falls under #2.
calronmoonflower 04-02-08, 12:51 AM	Huh, that's not what I meant. Immortality has a definition by the Rules as Written and it isn't number two.
The_Mess 04-02-08, 01:34 AM	A roleplaying game misusing an English word, NEVER! I agree that "immortal (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immortal)" is the wrong word, both as applied to Elan and as to the feat. However, "eternal (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eternal)" is also wrong. "Eternal" is actually worse a description than "immortal" because "eternal" implies that the subject also cannot change. "Ageless" works after the Elan has gained the final age category as they don't age any further, but doesn't work before that point. I'm not sure English really has a good word for the situation, although "incorruptible (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incorruptible)" comes close.
Orenmir 04-02-08, 09:52 AM	A roleplaying game misusing an English word, NEVER! I agree that "immortal (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immortal)" is the wrong word, both as applied to Elan and as to the feat. However, "eternal (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eternal)" is also wrong. "Eternal" is actually worse a description than "immortal" because "eternal" implies that the subject also cannot change. "Ageless" works after the Elan has gained the final age category as they don't age any further, but doesn't work before that point. I'm not sure English really has a good word for the situation, although "incorruptible (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incorruptible)" comes close. A very good point, which I wholeheartedly agree with. I think you more descriptively explained what I've been try to... The nomenclature is not important. What is important is understanding the difference between the two concepts: Able To Live Forever -VS- Unable To Die. They are very different (the former can die, the latter can not).
AntiDjinn 04-02-08, 01:40 PM	Immortal as a biologic term works just fine. An immortal cell line is one that has been transformed such that it will never undergo apoptosis (programmed cell death). Immortal cell lines do not age -- they will continue to divide indefinitely -- but they are not indestructible since they can still be killed and will die if not kept under appropriate conditions. That, biologically, is what immortal means; having no predetermined lifespan or expiration date. And lest you all decide to run out and try to achieve immortality by having your cells transformed into immortal cells, you already know another term for unlimited cell replication without apoptosis or contact inhibition: Cancer.