Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shasf 10-26-07, 02:36 PM	As the title of the thread suggests, this is about an Elan Erudite who collects psionic powers. I have compiled a list of powers from the Expanded Psionics Handbook and the Complete Psionics supplement. All in all, I have listed 418 powers, déjà vu was listed only once, the list below goes from 9th level powers to 1st level powers. I chose Elan for flavor reasons and because of their life-span, since learning all of the given powers would be a daunting task, even to the driven Human, and if someone says another long lived race like the elves, their flavor text seems to make them more acclimated to Arcane and Divine rather than to Psionics (though exceptions will always be made). Given the base progression by which the Erudite gains its powers: 2 powers at 1st level and 2 new powers at each new level. By this method, the Erudite could learn all of the given powers by level 209, which would be a very long time, given a house ruling for natural progression of leveling for standard races, long lived races may have an even slower progression: levels 2-5 take about 3 months to 1 year each to obtain levels 6-10 take about 6 months to 2 years to obtain levels 11-15 take about 9 months to 3 years to obtain levels 16-20 take about 1 year o 4 years to obtain level 21 has a wide range of time to accomplish since it would be the first Epic Level, so it takes anywhere between 1 year to 10 years to accomplish Levels 22+ take about 5 years to 10 years each to gain This is why I chose Elan Remember, the above is a house ruling, as such the normal human, taking the longest possible time, would be (starting at 19) about 78 by the time he/she reached 21st level and would b dead by the time he/she reached 24th or 25th level from old age, this is if they do not gain any age lengthening feats/abilities/or turn into a templated undead. Though the other way for a Erudite to learn powers is by stealing/buying them from other psions, though to do so, they effectively have about a 5% to a 36% XP burn for each level and must (unless there is something I've overlooked) take feats to learn 9th level discipline powers and still retain their ability to 'learn' new powers without leveling. Everything in the list is by 20th level Fee: 50gp x level of power; range: 50gp — 450gp varies on # of powers XP: 20xp/erudite level; range: 20xp — 400xp x 169 (338xp - 67,600xp) Time: 8 hours per power; range 1352 hours or 56.33 days Now to begin with the real problem that I'm having with this little creation: I need suggestions, hints, help, and constructive criticism to see if this can be done in a quicker and more efficient way rather than expending such resources as given above. Affinity field, affinity field pain, apopsi, assimilate, earthquake psionic, etherealness psionic, genesis, intellect bomb, metafaculty, metamorphosis greater, microcosm, mind switch true, psychic chirurgery, reality revision, stygian conflagration, teleportation circle psionic, time regression, timeless body, tornado blast, true creation, urge extermination Astral seed, bend reality, chaos fissure, fusion, greater glory, hypercognition, iron body psionic, light burst, matter manipulation, mind blank psionic, mind seed, planar embrace, protection from spells psionic, recall death, shadow body, spirit of war, stygian veil, telekinetic sphere psionic, teleport psionic greater, time hop mass, true metabolism Crisis of life, decerebrate, divert teleport, dream travel, ectoplasmic cocoon mass, energy claw, energy conversion, energy wave, ethereal jaunt psionic, evade burst, eyes of the basilisk, fate of one, fission, insanity, mind blank personal, moment of prescience psionic, oak body, phase door psionic, planar champion, reddopsi, sequester psionic, ultrablast Analyze dweomer psionic, aura alteration, banishment psionic, blackstone hammer, breath of the black dragon, cloud mind mass, concussive detonation, contingency psionic, co-opt concentration, crystallize, disintegrate psionic, dispelling buffer, energy barrage, energy nullification field, fabricate greater psionic, form of doom, fuse flesh, inconstant location, mind blank personal, mind over energy, mind switch, null psionics field, overland flight psionic, precognition greater, psychometry, rage of the remorhaz, remote view trap, restoration psionic, retrieve, stygian bolt, stygian touch, suspend life, temporal acceleration Adapt body, anticipatory strike, baleful teleport, catapsi, celestial conduit, clairtangent hand, cranial deluge, detain ectoplasm, ectoplasmic shambler, empower weapon, energy current, energy nullification field, ethereal agent, fiendish conduit, fiery discorporation, hail of crystals, incarnate, leech field, living arrow, major creation psionic, metaconcert, mind probe, oak body, perfect riposte, plan shift psionic, power resistance, psionic revivify, psychic crush, psychofeedback, psychotic break, restore extremity, second chance, shatter mind blank, stomp greater, stygian dominion, suppress schism, telekinetic buffer, teleport trigger, teleport psionic, temporal reiteration, tower or iron will, true seeing psionic Anchored navigation, aura sight, burrowing bonds, claw of energy, control body, correspond, death urge, detect remote viewing, dimension anchor psionic, divination psionic, dominate psionic, ectoplasmic swarm, empathic feedback, energy adaptation, energy ball, energy flash, fabricate psionic, fly psionic, freedom of movement psionic, immovability, inertial barrier, intellect fortress, inertial barrier, metamorphosis, mindlink thieving, mindwipe, modify memory psionic, personality parasite, planar apotheosis , power leech, psychic reformation, psychic vampire, psychokinetic weapon, quintessence, remote viewing, schism, shadow eft, steadfast perception, stygian disruption, suggestion implanted, telekinetic maneuver, trace teleport, truevenom, truevenom weapon, wall of ectoplasm, weapon of energy Astral caravan, body purification, breathless, cerebral phantasms, claws of the vampire, concealing amorpha greater, crisis of breath, danger sense, dimension slide, dimension twister, dismiss ectoplasm, dispel psionics, duodimensional claw, ectoplasmic cocoon, ectoplasmic form, empathic feedback, empathic transfer hostile, energy bolt, energy cone, energy lance, energy retort, eradicate invisibility, escape detection, evade burst, exhalation of the bronze dragon, false sensory input, fate link, glyph of warding psionic, graft weapon, heavy earth, hustle, keen edge psionic, mental barrier, mind trap, mindfire, psionic blast, psychic containment, realized potential, share pain forced, solicit psicrystal, speak with dead psionic, stygian bane, telekinetic boomerang, telekinetic force, telekinetic thrust, time hop, touchsight, ubiquitous vision, vampire blade Animal affinity, aversion, bestow power, body adjustment, body equilibrium, brain lock, chameleon, clairvoyant sense, claw of darkness, cloud mind, concealing amorpha, concussion blast, control air, control sound, crystalstorm, damp power, darkvision psionic, detect hostile intent, dimension swap, dissolving touch, dissolving weapon, distracting shout, earth walk, ego whip, elemental steward, elfisght, empathic transfer, energy adaptation specified, energy emanation, energy missile, energy push, energy stun, ethereal volley, evade attack, extend reach, feat leach, hustle, id insinuation, identify psionic, incite bravery, inflict pain, knock psionic, larval flayers, levitate psionic, mental disruption, missive mass, moment of insight, object reading, painful strike, perfect archery, power claws, power weapon, prowess, psionic lion’s charge, psionic lock, psionic repair damage, psionic scent, psychic scimitar, psychoportive shelter, read thoughts, recall agony, sense link forced, sensitivity to psychic impressions, serenity, share pain, strength of my enemy, stygian erasure, stygian ray, suggestion psionic, sustenance, swarm of crystals, thought shield, tongues psionic, wall walker, zone of alertness Adrenaline boost, astral construct, astral traveler, attraction, biofeedback, bite of the wolf, bolt, burst, call armor, call weaponry, catfall, chameleon, charm psionic, claws of the beast, compression, conceal thoughts, control flames, control light, control object, create sound, crystal shard, daze psionic, deaden blow, deceleration, deflection field, déjà vu, demoralize, destiny dissonance, detect psionics, detect teleportation, dimensional pocket, disable, dissipating touch, distract, ecto protection, eidetic lock, elfisght, empathy, empty mind, endure elements psionic, energy arc, energy ray, entangling ectoplasm, expansion, extend range, far hand, float, force screen, grease psionic, grip of iron, hammer, inspire mount, inertial armor, know direction and location, matter agitation, metaphysical claw, metaphysical weapon, mighty spring, mind thrust, minor creation psionic, missive, my light, precognition defensive, precognition offensive, prescience offensive, prevenom, prevenom weapon, primal fear, sense link, sensory gloom, skate, slow breathing, stomp, stone mind, stygian discernment, synchronicity, synesthete, telepathic projection, thicken skin, urban strider, vigor Race: Elan Abilities: Assume Elite Array; 16 in Int XP: 190,000 (without learning additional powers) (-9500 xp at 5%; -67,600xp at ~35.58%) Gold: 720,000 Eberron Campaign Setting Five Nations Sharn: City of Towers Secrets of Xen'drik Secrets of Sarlona Explorer's Handbook Dragonmarked Faiths of Eberron Player's Guide to Eberron The Forge of War Races of Eberron Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Player's Guide to Faerun Spell Compendium Magic Item Compendium Rules Compendium Dungeon Master's Guide Dungeon Master's Guide II Player's Handbook Player's Handbook II Expanded Psionics Handbook Exemplars of Evil Races of Destiny Races of the Wild Races of Stone Races of the Dragon Complete Psionic Complete Divine Complete Champion Complete Arcane Complate Mage Complete Warrior Complete Adventurer Complete Scoundrel Book of Exalted Deeds Book of Vile Darkness Weapons of Legacy Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords Draconomicon: The Book of Dragons Drow of the Underdark Libris Mortis Tome of Magic Dragon Magic Magic of Incarnum Lords of Madness: The Book of Aberrations Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells Heroes of Horror Heroes of Battle Planar Handbook Dungeonscape Cityscape Frostburn Sandstorm Stormwreck Monster Manual 3.5 Monster Manual II Monster Manual III Monster Manual IV Monster Manual V Expedition to Castle Ravenloft Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk I do have other books, though they are 3.0, I will list them upon request, if needed, I will also mention AD&D 2nd ED Psionics Handbook (Complete Psionics Handbook) Thank you for taking the time to read through the post, if anything is unclear, I will try to clear things up. Now to begin with the real problem that I'm having with this little creation: I need suggestions, hints, help, and constructive criticism to see if this can be done in a quicker and more efficient way rather than expending such resources as given above.
PhaedrusXY 10-26-07, 03:20 PM	Warforged are also immortal, and they make good psions. I'm not that familiar with Erudites, but would Psychic Reformation + Expanded Knowledge + Craft Power Stone help? That would let you make a Power Stone of any 8th level or lower power fairly cheaply.
InkBlot 10-26-07, 03:36 PM	I need suggestions, hints, help, and constructive criticism to see if this can be done in a quicker and more efficient way rather than expending such resources as given above. Your elan will live for sideways-8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNlDczS4YK4) years, sop there's no real hurry. The elan maximum age in the Expanded Psionics Handbook was an editing error (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). They're immortal. OK, besides that, have you thought about psychic reformation? Make a power stone of power x; reform power x to power y; make a power stone of power y; reform power y to power z; ad nauseum. It doesn't cost less XP, but it saves you the effort of finding existing people/powerstones with these powers. Also consider multiclassing. It reduces the amount of XP you have to spend to learn a new power. Try thrallherd. Execute/banish any believers who aren't a psions or wilder, and encourage all of the remaining ones to learn different powers. Since you always automatically get more believers (to the limit of the world population), you'll eventually have a following of nothing but psions and wilders.
DracoPhoenix 10-26-07, 07:28 PM	if you're playing pokemon with powers, just buy up powerstones in town - in a truely 50/50 arcane / psionic world, they should be as common as scrolls. So you could even beg the DM to drop stone equivilants when rolling treasure. While I agree the exp know + imprint stone is a valid tactic, it may get smack by the DM as too cheesy. Depending on the active campaign, you could probably cover quite some distance in a few months. Red Hand of Doom is ~L7-10 over a month or two (Still playing, so I don't know the exact time frame) The more cheesy munchin move is Telepath w/ psi chirgery and leadership/Thrallherd (erudite co-hort (x2)). Then you drop said cohort(s), pick up an ardent, give them psi chirg and start working through every other psionic manifesting class. Then, once you've got as many powers as you think you can and burnt your level in xp several times over (you have the time after all). Then you think carefully about what class you want at your side (say a psi-warrior) and dump as many powers as he'll have need for (or all). For levels 21+, take Uncarnate and leave the material universe behind. Go have a word with the deities about the vacancy for the psionic portfolio.
Sagetim 10-26-07, 10:38 PM	Your elan will live for sideways-8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNlDczS4YK4) years, sop there's no real hurry. The elan maximum age in the Expanded Psionics Handbook was an editing error (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). They're immortal. OK, besides that, have you thought about psychic reformation? Make a power stone of power x; reform power x to power y; make a power stone of power y; reform power y to power z; ad nauseum. It doesn't cost less XP, but it saves you the effort of finding existing people/powerstones with these powers. Also consider multiclassing. It reduces the amount of XP you have to spend to learn a new power. Try thrallherd. Execute/banish any believers who aren't a psions or wilder, and encourage all of the remaining ones to learn different powers. Since you always automatically get more believers (to the limit of the world population), you'll eventually have a following of nothing but psions and wilders. or better yet, have them and your cohorts be erudites, then they can learn powers and bring them back to you. Or, even better, have one cohort be a Society Mind, the other cohort be an Erudite, and the rest of your followers as various disciplined psions. Then you could have the society mind keep track of people, and if they have enough range, they could even let you contact an erudite who just got a new power and get it from the erudite right then and there.
Shasf 10-27-07, 02:34 AM	This is just a quick reply, since its late, dark 30ish InkBlot: I do know the Elan are immortal, I am sorry if my post gave the wrong impression. PhaedrusXY: I would go with Warforged, but they don't have the ability of the Elan to negate damage, even though the warforged to get more immunities and DR with most of their racial body feats DracoPheonix: The character mentioned might be played, but I have to get a game going and most of the people I play with don't understand (and so they fear/dislike) psionics. Though the Uncarnate is valid, after epics, epic manifestation could possibly produce better results without damaging the manifestation level even though it probably won't matter that much after level 21 and subsequent levels. Sagetim: As odd as it sounds, I have yet to completely read the Society Mind. Though as far as the Thrallherd trick is concerned, it is debatable who gets to choose the exact type of followers/believers gained. I will post a more indepth reply when I get the chance. Your posts have/will/are appreciated
DracoPhoenix 10-27-07, 09:01 AM	Though as far as the Thrallherd trick is concerned, it is debatable who gets to choose the exact type of followers/believers gained. IIRC, Leadership feat states: "A character can try to attract a cohort of a particular race, class, and alignment." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#leadership) (My bold) Thralls are basically unwilling cohorts. So Unless the DM rules otherwise, "Erudite" is a fair call.
Lycanthromancer 10-27-07, 12:33 PM	Actually, they're not unwilling at all. They are SUPREMELY willing. What's will got to do...got to do with it?
PhaedrusXY 10-27-07, 12:50 PM	You can choose certain things about your thrall, but I don't think you have any control over the believers... other than killing/dismissing them until you get what you want (as mentioned earlier).
DracoPhoenix 10-27-07, 01:09 PM	You can choose certain things about your thrall, but I don't think you have any control over the believers... other than killing/dismissing them until you get what you want (as mentioned earlier). Well, the bit on followers from the feat entry is : "Followers are similar to cohorts, except they’re generally low-level NPCs." That would imply to me that you take the cohort info as the base, and amend with the specified differences (lower level etc). So, while it may take a while you could specify X clerics, Y Dwarven Aristocrats etc
Shasf 10-27-07, 01:26 PM	The suggestions given do take care of one problem, time, though that seems to be the only aspect addressed for the problem. Power Stone of Psychic Reformation 4 x 7 x 25 = 700gp 350gp in materials 28xp expended plus an additional 50xp total cost: 1050gp plus 78xp for 1 to 6 time use That was going by the book and SRD for the item creation feats If one wanted, they could just by a major power stone of 4th level and hope to get 6 psychic reformation powers, each usable only once. And as a DM, I'd allow you to create your own Power Stone of psychic reformation, since you'd forget (unable to retain) powers if you wished to pick different powers of a lower level, in this case, the last level. while getting psychic chirurgery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicChirurgery.htm) would normally be better for a psion rather than the varient psion, the Erudite where it would be a much lower cost, even if you divided the xp cost evenly between both parties. (500xp to 1000xp/level of power) x (1 to 9) x number of powers unknown; lowest possible amount for 1st level power:500xp, cost split highest possible amount for 9th level power: 9000xp, cost is not split now we'll say that you want to learn 17 level 9 powers with psychic chirurgey, the costs: 153,000xp unsplit, 76,500xp split That takes up more xp cost than is needed for a Erudite who would have to wait until 17th level to gain access to that power. But thank you for that suggestion. I also know that there is another thread with a more indepth look at the Thrallherd and its discussions on who and how the believers and thrall are chosen, since it acts like the leadership feat (without the bonuses or penalties) it is ultimately left up to the DM. That all being said, the time and the fee for the Erudite are easily over come with an Elan and if one chooses their powers carefully, the fee can be negated with little to no effort, and maybe even without breaking the game economy. It seems, the only problem I have left is to lower or even completely negate the xp cost of the Erudites learning ability. Though it does seem people would like to discuss the validity of who gets the choice on believers and thralls. Hm, a duel of views :duel: I have run into a wall for the xp cost negation/lowering for the Erudite :banghead:
PhaedrusXY 10-27-07, 01:36 PM	Why are you using Power Stones of Psychic Reformation? You don't use Psychic Reformation via a Power Stone. You actually pick Psychic Reformation as a known power (however that works for an Erudite). You also pick Craft Power Stone as a feat, and also Expanded Knowledge. Then you repeatedly re-manifest Psychic Reformation, changing the Expanded Knowledge feat to give you a different power every time. Each time you do this, you craft a Power Stone of your new power. Repeat as much as you want. Each time, you only need to "reformat" enough levels to change one feat (Expanded Knowledge). So if you do this at level 9, for example, you only need to redo your most recent level. Doing this, you can get a Power Stone for any power that you want, up to one level below the highest level power you can normally manifest. I get the impression that you can "learn" powers known from these as an Erudite, but like I said, I'm not very familiar with the class/variant at all. Is there any reason this wouldn't work?
TheKeyofE 10-27-07, 06:13 PM	Then you repeatedly re-manifest Psychic Reformation, changing the Expanded Knowledge feat to give you a different power every time. Each time you do this, you craft a Power Stone of your new power. Repeat as much as you want. Each time, you only need to "reformat" enough levels to change one feat (Expanded Knowledge). So if you do this at level 9, for example, you only need to redo your most recent level. Doing this, you can get a Power Stone for any power that you want, up to one level below the highest level power you can normally manifest. I get the impression that you can "learn" powers known from these as an Erudite, but like I said, I'm not very familiar with the class/variant at all. Is there any reason this wouldn't work? I think this is exactly how it works, but it seems like you are forgetting that you reformat your powers chosen last level, as well as feats, when manifesting psychic reformation. So at 9th level, you take two normal powers and Expanded Knowledge (discipline power), make power stones of all three, reformat for 50 XP, then relearn all three from the stones (for varying amounts of XP). Lather, rinse, repeat. It's more XP efficient than relying only on EK.
vorpo 10-27-07, 07:08 PM	I don't see any reason to limit learning powers, not to mention some people already said the use of psychic reformation/power stone circumvents what you propose anyway. I mean, wizards don't get limited when learning spells, do they? Erudites have limited unique powers per day much the same way wizard has limited spells per level.
Shasf 10-27-07, 09:38 PM	My thoughts on the feat change, is that if you change the feat in this case expanded knowledge (power), then you also lose access to that power since it's like you never even gained access to the power. When this power is manifested, the subject can choose to spend its most recently gained skill points differently (picking new skills and abandoning old ones if it chooses) and to choose a different feat from the one it selected when advancing from its previous level to its current level. The subject can also choose to forget powers it acquired when advancing to its current level, replacing them with new ones. correct me if I am wrong on this.
TheKeyofE 10-28-07, 01:35 AM	My thoughts on the feat change, is that if you change the feat in this case expanded knowledge (power), then you also lose access to that power since it's like you never even gained access to the power. That's exactly how it works, but you're missing the point here. You learn the power through expanded knowledge, make a power stone of the power, reform expanded knowledge to something else, then RELEARN the power from the power stone (although it costs xp)
Shasf 10-28-07, 01:50 AM	:detect: :whatsthis I do believe I have just stepped up a peg (or somewhere in that range) so it didn't go over my head this time. Though, now it might cost me 2,200gp for 6 charges (or ~366gp 66sp 67cp per charge) of Psychic Reformation.. (bought and not made) That does seem to be a rather good plan now that I've managed to grasp the idea before it flies over my head again and again. It does seem like a viable option, though to me it still seems very costly for lower level powers, or at least the ones of/or below 7th level. Though when the item creation is added, it seems even more costly. My original cost for creating a power stone for Psychic Reformation is for only one charge in a power stone, though if I add 250xp to my cost... I'm a little unsure, I'll have to do a little more paper work...
PhaedrusXY 10-28-07, 02:57 AM	I still don't understand why you are BUYING a power stone of psychic reformation, or even using a Power Stone of that at all. Is there any reason at all that you can't just LEARN psychic reformation, and manifest it yourself? Why do you need a power stone of that? Is there something about the Erudite that prevents you from doing this? I only know what I've read on here about the class. I think this is exactly how it works, but it seems like you are forgetting that you reformat your powers chosen last level, as well as feats, when manifesting psychic reformation. So at 9th level, you take two normal powers and Expanded Knowledge (discipline power), make power stones of all three, reformat for 50 XP, then relearn all three from the stones (for varying amounts of XP). Lather, rinse, repeat. It's more XP efficient than relying only on EK.Yes, I did overlook that. Thanks.
Shasf 10-28-07, 10:51 AM	There is nothing preventing the Erudite from learning the power. I'm not sure why the Erudite should be making Power Stones even, when buying them is much more cost effective. 1 x 1 x 25 = 25 2 x 3 x 25 = 150 3 x 5 x 25 = 375 4 x 7 x 25 = 700 5 x 9 x 25 = 1,125 6 x 11 x 25 = 1,650 7 x 13 x 25 = 2,275 8 x 15 x 25 = 3,000 9 x 17 x 25 = 3,825 1 x 1 x 25 = 25 2 x 3 x 25 = 150 3 x 5 x 25 = 375 4 x 7 x 25 = 700 5 x 9 x 25 = 1,125 6 x 11 x 25 = 1,650 7 x 13 x 25 = 2,275 8 x 15 x 25 = 3,000 9 x 17 x 25 = 3,825 25 x 0.5 = 12.5 150 x 0.5 = 75 375 x 0.5 = 187.5 700 x 0.5 = 350 1,125 x 0.5 = 562.5 1,650 x 0.5 = 825 2,275 x 0.5 = 1,137.5 3,000 x 0.5 = 1,500 3,825 x 0.5 = 1,912.5 25 x 0.04 = 1 150 x 0.04 = 6 375 x 0.04 = 15 700 x 0.04 = 28 1,125 x 0.04 = 45 1,650 x 0.04 = 66 2,275 x 0.04 = 91 3,000 x 0.04 = 120 3,825 x 0.04 = 153 37.5gp plus 1xp 225gp plus 6xp 562.5gp plus 15xp 1,050gp plus 28xp 1,687.5gp plus 45xp 2,475gp plus 66xp 3,412.5gp plus 91xp 4,500gp plus 120xp 5,737.5gp plus 153xp add xp to the cost if the power in question has an xp cost cost to create is assuming that only one power per stone is used Everything above (as far as buying vs. cost is concerned) is from the books suggestions of how to calculate cost, yes it is only a guideline, going by that guideline, it is more cost effective to buy a power stone rather than to make one of the desired power. While it may be faster, it uses up resources at a much higher cost as far as gold goes, in XP cost (by itself), it is considerably lower until we add it on top of the Erudite's learning ability. For time, learning a power and then create a power stone of said power uses is a time consuming process, though since I did make Elan the choice of race, time is not an issue. I do appreciate the help in understanding the Expanded Knowldge + Power Stone manuever, while it might be easier to obtain powers, it has a very high cost compared to Erudites methods. That being said, it is not a viable option to create a power stone of X power then to relearn X power from the Power Stone. Thrallherd, while interesting, and the most reasonable choice, would be the best route, though I wanted the Erudite to remain as a Erudite rather than going into a PrC. Though, the leadership feat can get a Thrallherd as a companion for the Erudite... thanks again, I also hope I did more clearing up than confusing with this post
CrimsonDeath 10-28-07, 01:44 PM	37.5gp plus 1xp 225gp plus 6xp 562.5gp plus 15xp 1,050gp plus 28xp 1,687.5gp plus 45xp 2,475gp plus 66xp 3,412.5gp plus 91xp 4,500gp plus 120xp 5,737.5gp plus 153xp Where'd you get these gp figures? It looks like you added the cost of buying a power stone to the cost of manufacturing one. If that's what you did, why did you do it?
Shasf 10-28-07, 02:57 PM	Where'd you get these gp figures? It looks like you added the cost of buying a power stone to the cost of manufacturing one. If that's what you did, why did you do it? The printed costs in the Book and SRD are only for the base cost, they never added in the material cost (1/2 base cost) and the xp cost (1/25 base cost). Here's the link to the feat: Imprint Stone [Item Creation] (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#imprintStone) Why I did it, to show, comparatively, the cost between purchasing a stone and creating one. As for how I got the values, probably stated before, it was following the guidelines in the feat and item creation sections. Also, if you follow along with the previous post of mine, please follow the Cost of Making box to see the exact process of how I got the figures.
teshen 10-28-07, 03:00 PM	Is there a particular reason the convert spell to power option would not allow an erudite to learn arcane spells in this manner?
Shasf 10-28-07, 04:57 PM	Is there a particular reason the convert spell to power option would not allow an erudite to learn arcane spells in this manner? That would be something to take up with your DM, or if you're the DM, something you need to decide before hand and allow your players the same option if you do allow it. Now then, it appears now, that there is not a faster and more efficient way for a Erudite to learn more powers than the standard method mentioned in Complete Psionics. Thank you all, for the help and for your time.
CrimsonDeath 10-28-07, 05:48 PM	The printed costs in the Book and SRD are only for the base cost, they never added in the material cost (1/2 base cost) and the xp cost (1/25 base cost). Here's the link to the feat: Imprint Stone [Item Creation] (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#imprintStone) Why I did it, to show, comparatively, the cost between purchasing a stone and creating one. As for how I got the values, probably stated before, it was following the guidelines in the feat and item creation sections. Also, if you follow along with the previous post of mine, please follow the Cost of Making box to see the exact process of how I got the figures. What the-- No! That's not how item creation feats work at all. See the feat? "To imprint a power stone, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price." The base price is a benchmark from which the cost of creation is calculated. You don't add the raw materials cost to the base price; if you did, the feat would say so. You only use up what the feat says you use up.
vorpo 10-28-07, 06:33 PM	Somehow this thread has swayed a little. None of these Psychic Reformation/power stone issue matters if the OP's rule simply doesn't exist, which IMO, it shouldn't.
Shasf 10-29-07, 12:30 AM	What the-- No! That's not how item creation feats work at all. See the feat? "To imprint a power stone, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price." The base price is a benchmark from which the cost of creation is calculated. You don't add the raw materials cost to the base price; if you did, the feat would say so. You only use up what the feat says you use up. well then, I guess myself and game group have been doing that all wrong for the past few years... well then, if that is the case, the power stone trick is a better option. thanks
PhaedrusXY 10-29-07, 12:45 AM	You actually thought it cost more to craft an item than to buy it? Why on earth would anyone ever take a craft feat, if that were the case?
Shasf 10-29-07, 03:03 PM	You actually thought it cost more to craft an item than to buy it? Why on earth would anyone ever take a craft feat, if that were the case? Through experimentation, some items came out more, some came out less Then with Eberron (didn't have FR until after), I saw the magic item cost reduction feats and that made item creation feats more appealing to myself, then I looked in FR books after I got my hands upon them and noticed that they too had a magic item cost reduction feat as well, under a different name of course. and as for why anyone would ever take craft feats, through the goodness of their hearts is.. err.. was my reason.