Elan resilience [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elan resilience [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thulsa Doom
03-29-07, 03:42 AM An elan takes some damage, and decides to reduce it via resilience...so now:
1). Does he know how much damage he receives before using that ability? "You take 8 damage... Okay, i use 4PP to negate it"

2). If not, he must decide on how many PPs he's gonna spend without knowing the actual damage dealt...but if he decides to use too much PPs for the damage ( 4PP for 3 damage ), what happens to the excess PP which didn't need to be spent?
Do they burn anyway or do they return to the pool?
Yadot
03-29-07, 03:45 AM I would say that the Elan doesn't know ahead of time how much damage was done. For 2 the extra power pionts would be wasted.

This is all house rules throgh because the Elan Resilience ability does not clalify either way.
SlanderPanic
03-29-07, 11:57 AM I do it both ways. For simplicity's sake, most times an elan takes damage, I'll let his player know. If the player considers it worthwhile to use up his swift action for his upcoming turn to negate the damage, he can go for it. Now and then, for drama, I'll make him gamble.
"This is an awful lot of damage. Do you want to use your Resilience ability? How many power points do you want to spend?"
I also limit the amount of power points an elan can spend on this ability to his character level.
Ilikan Holyaxe
03-29-07, 12:31 PM That last part is a part of the rules anyway, isn't it?
Bacris
03-29-07, 12:44 PM 1) I'd say it'd be silly to have a racial ability to soak up damage instantaneously if you don't know how much damage to soak up.

2) Since he knows, it's irrelevant.

Ilikan Holyaxe - no. There is no cap to the number of pps an elan can use on this ability - except for his power point pool.
BlaineTog
03-29-07, 12:50 PM I say let them know. And don't cap it. It's really not that great an ability, if you think about it.
Vrael
03-29-07, 12:54 PM I say let them know. And don't cap it. It's really not that great an ability, if you think about it.

Agreed. It's basically DR per day.
NightMoor
03-29-07, 02:22 PM There is definitely no cap on the number of power points an Elan can use to stop damage, since it is not a *manifested* power but rather a supernatural racial ability. And there shouldn't be, it's a very situational ability - it's cool for saving yourself in those times when dumb luck would have screwed you for lethal damage, but it eats up your swift action for the turn (not to mention your precious power reserve, at a rate that is terribly inefficient compared to regular healing!). This means you A) can't possibly use your other racial ability in the same turn, B) you can't do anything if you get ganged up on and hit by *multiple* enemies in one turn and C) you can never do any other swift-action combos (like Quickened Spells, Swift feat expenditures, etc) in the same turn as you use Resilience to prevent damage. It's a very balanced ability.

The written rules make it pretty clear that an Elan gets to use it after the DM has told him how much damage is coming his way. Playing it otherwise (ie. forcing him to guess, etc.) is clearly a houserule and one I in fact would not recommened at all, unless the DM's intention is to make sure that NO ONE ever takes the Elan class, EVER. Elan Resilience and Resistance are flavourful abilities that are effective but situational, and not even close to being powerful enough to cause someone to "nerf" them.
SlanderPanic
03-29-07, 02:36 PM Make no mistake. I'm a fan of elans. I make their players guess sometimes, yes. But that's for the sake of drama and a good time. My players like it when I make them sweat a little. I also don't consider it a "nerf" to limit the points spent to character level. Yes, Resilience has other factors balancing it. My players and I think it's fair and logical, so we do what works for us.
AntiDjinn
03-30-07, 12:09 AM The way the ability is worded it prevents the damage rather than instantaneously healing it, so it sounds like you are supposed to state how much you are preventing before you find out how much is coming. After all, if damage never lands in the first place, do you ever find out how many points would have been dealt?

That being said, there is no need to make a situation complex when it could be simple. If you are being hit with a longsword wielded by a psychic warrior and you have to guess how much damage to prevent then do you just count on the d8 + estimated Str? What if he expends for psionic weapon and is using a psychokinetic burst weapon? If a fireball hits are you supposed to guess if it is maximized?

Instead, I prefer:

DM: "He tags you for 20 points."
Elan PC: "I burn 10 points to blow it off."
DM: "One second later the wizard casts a fireball, bet you wish you could use Evade Burst this round."
AntiDjinn
03-30-07, 12:38 AM it's cool for saving yourself in those times when dumb luck would have screwed you for lethal damage, but it eats up your swift action for the turn (not to mention your precious power reserve, at a rate that is terribly inefficient compared to regular healing!).

It is less efficient that having someone else (like a cleric or ardent with the life mantle) heal you, and is much less efficient than having an appropriate defense in place in advance, but sometimes it is better than healing yourself. If you are a psion then the first d12 of Body Adjustment costs 5 points and heals an average of 6.5 points. That is a return/cost ratio of 1.3 which is lower than Resilience's ratio of 2. If you spend 7 points on the manifestation then your average return ratio is 1.86. Spend 9 points and it is 2.17. So for damage of 16 points or less it will generally be more efficient to prevent it than heal it, and Body Adjustment for the psion is less efficient than the inefficient elan Resilience if fewer than 9 points are spent. If your elan has Enhanced Resilience then he needs to empower or maximize his Body Adjustment in order for it to become more efficient except at trans-epic levels.

The situation is different if your elan is a psychic warrior. The first dice of Body Adjustment is 3 points with an average return ratio of 2.17 (the same efficiency the psion gets at 9 points) so right off the bat it is more efficient to heal than to prevent.
Thulsa Doom
03-30-07, 01:33 AM Official Wizards answer: Yes, he knows the amount of damage he is about to recieve...
MicroPizza71
04-06-07, 01:34 PM My question is when you add in the Feat Enhanced Elan Resilience where now 1PP gains you 4 damage reduced, that opens up alot of doors. Say now your about to take 20damage, okay 4PP gone and I'm perfectly fine. It's great for avoiding the big attacks. Also has the ability been errated? In my copy of Expanded Psionics the ability is stated as an immediate action, not a swift action.
Lycanthromancer
04-06-07, 04:28 PM Resilience would be nigh-useless as a swift action, as you could only use it for attacks of opportunity, really.

It's still an immediate action.
AntiDjinn
04-06-07, 06:24 PM An immediate action is a type of swift action. What sets it appart is the fact that it may be used out of turn, provided you are not flat-footed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thulsa Doom 03-29-07, 03:42 AM	An elan takes some damage, and decides to reduce it via resilience...so now: 1). Does he know how much damage he receives before using that ability? "You take 8 damage... Okay, i use 4PP to negate it" 2). If not, he must decide on how many PPs he's gonna spend without knowing the actual damage dealt...but if he decides to use too much PPs for the damage ( 4PP for 3 damage ), what happens to the excess PP which didn't need to be spent? Do they burn anyway or do they return to the pool?
Yadot 03-29-07, 03:45 AM	I would say that the Elan doesn't know ahead of time how much damage was done. For 2 the extra power pionts would be wasted. This is all house rules throgh because the Elan Resilience ability does not clalify either way.
SlanderPanic 03-29-07, 11:57 AM	I do it both ways. For simplicity's sake, most times an elan takes damage, I'll let his player know. If the player considers it worthwhile to use up his swift action for his upcoming turn to negate the damage, he can go for it. Now and then, for drama, I'll make him gamble. "This is an awful lot of damage. Do you want to use your Resilience ability? How many power points do you want to spend?" I also limit the amount of power points an elan can spend on this ability to his character level.
Ilikan Holyaxe 03-29-07, 12:31 PM	That last part is a part of the rules anyway, isn't it?
Bacris 03-29-07, 12:44 PM	1) I'd say it'd be silly to have a racial ability to soak up damage instantaneously if you don't know how much damage to soak up. 2) Since he knows, it's irrelevant. Ilikan Holyaxe - no. There is no cap to the number of pps an elan can use on this ability - except for his power point pool.
BlaineTog 03-29-07, 12:50 PM	I say let them know. And don't cap it. It's really not that great an ability, if you think about it.
Vrael 03-29-07, 12:54 PM	I say let them know. And don't cap it. It's really not that great an ability, if you think about it. Agreed. It's basically DR per day.
NightMoor 03-29-07, 02:22 PM	There is definitely no cap on the number of power points an Elan can use to stop damage, since it is not a manifested power but rather a supernatural racial ability. And there shouldn't be, it's a very situational ability - it's cool for saving yourself in those times when dumb luck would have screwed you for lethal damage, but it eats up your swift action for the turn (not to mention your precious power reserve, at a rate that is terribly inefficient compared to regular healing!). This means you A) can't possibly use your other racial ability in the same turn, B) you can't do anything if you get ganged up on and hit by multiple enemies in one turn and C) you can never do any other swift-action combos (like Quickened Spells, Swift feat expenditures, etc) in the same turn as you use Resilience to prevent damage. It's a very balanced ability. The written rules make it pretty clear that an Elan gets to use it after the DM has told him how much damage is coming his way. Playing it otherwise (ie. forcing him to guess, etc.) is clearly a houserule and one I in fact would not recommened at all, unless the DM's intention is to make sure that NO ONE ever takes the Elan class, EVER. Elan Resilience and Resistance are flavourful abilities that are effective but situational, and not even close to being powerful enough to cause someone to "nerf" them.
SlanderPanic 03-29-07, 02:36 PM	Make no mistake. I'm a fan of elans. I make their players guess sometimes, yes. But that's for the sake of drama and a good time. My players like it when I make them sweat a little. I also don't consider it a "nerf" to limit the points spent to character level. Yes, Resilience has other factors balancing it. My players and I think it's fair and logical, so we do what works for us.
AntiDjinn 03-30-07, 12:09 AM	The way the ability is worded it prevents the damage rather than instantaneously healing it, so it sounds like you are supposed to state how much you are preventing before you find out how much is coming. After all, if damage never lands in the first place, do you ever find out how many points would have been dealt? That being said, there is no need to make a situation complex when it could be simple. If you are being hit with a longsword wielded by a psychic warrior and you have to guess how much damage to prevent then do you just count on the d8 + estimated Str? What if he expends for psionic weapon and is using a psychokinetic burst weapon? If a fireball hits are you supposed to guess if it is maximized? Instead, I prefer: DM: "He tags you for 20 points." Elan PC: "I burn 10 points to blow it off." DM: "One second later the wizard casts a fireball, bet you wish you could use Evade Burst this round."
AntiDjinn 03-30-07, 12:38 AM	it's cool for saving yourself in those times when dumb luck would have screwed you for lethal damage, but it eats up your swift action for the turn (not to mention your precious power reserve, at a rate that is terribly inefficient compared to regular healing!). It is less efficient that having someone else (like a cleric or ardent with the life mantle) heal you, and is much less efficient than having an appropriate defense in place in advance, but sometimes it is better than healing yourself. If you are a psion then the first d12 of Body Adjustment costs 5 points and heals an average of 6.5 points. That is a return/cost ratio of 1.3 which is lower than Resilience's ratio of 2. If you spend 7 points on the manifestation then your average return ratio is 1.86. Spend 9 points and it is 2.17. So for damage of 16 points or less it will generally be more efficient to prevent it than heal it, and Body Adjustment for the psion is less efficient than the inefficient elan Resilience if fewer than 9 points are spent. If your elan has Enhanced Resilience then he needs to empower or maximize his Body Adjustment in order for it to become more efficient except at trans-epic levels. The situation is different if your elan is a psychic warrior. The first dice of Body Adjustment is 3 points with an average return ratio of 2.17 (the same efficiency the psion gets at 9 points) so right off the bat it is more efficient to heal than to prevent.
Thulsa Doom 03-30-07, 01:33 AM	Official Wizards answer: Yes, he knows the amount of damage he is about to recieve...
MicroPizza71 04-06-07, 01:34 PM	My question is when you add in the Feat Enhanced Elan Resilience where now 1PP gains you 4 damage reduced, that opens up alot of doors. Say now your about to take 20damage, okay 4PP gone and I'm perfectly fine. It's great for avoiding the big attacks. Also has the ability been errated? In my copy of Expanded Psionics the ability is stated as an immediate action, not a swift action.
Lycanthromancer 04-06-07, 04:28 PM	Resilience would be nigh-useless as a swift action, as you could only use it for attacks of opportunity, really. It's still an immediate action.
AntiDjinn 04-06-07, 06:24 PM	An immediate action is a type of swift action. What sets it appart is the fact that it may be used out of turn, provided you are not flat-footed.