Energy Powers??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Energy Powers??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Moosh Nailo
05-15-07, 07:57 PM Why is all the acid gone?
For all the powers that use energy (energy ray, energy missile, etc.), including fire, cold, electricity and sonic, why is acid not an option? Was it removed for a reason? Did I miss a sentence stating that "acid is too awesome to be included"?

Or is it all just a mistake? In which case, what would you guys think would be a good "special effect" to go with acid? (along the lines of +1 damage per die kinda thing)

And last but not least, if I'm making a fool of myself about something that's already been "solved", could someone please link the answer?
Thankee.
RavinRay
05-15-07, 08:13 PM Someone said before that from a RW sci-tech perspective acid isn't an energy at all (and Bruce is a molecular biologist). But you can add acid as a variant rule, and state that it deals normal damage (no penalties or bonuses).
calronmoonflower
05-15-07, 08:22 PM Someone said before that from a RW sci-tech perspective acid isn't an energy at all (and Bruce is a molecular biologist). But you can add acid as a variant rule, and state that it deals normal damage (no penalties or bonuses).

Acid basically breaks atomic bonds. Energy could do that.
Moosh Nailo
05-15-07, 10:43 PM Since when does RW have a say on MIND POWERS? Your post makes perfect sense, RavinRay, and yet leaves me completely unsatified. Nothing personal.

Everything else has acid as an option, wherever you look. I considered just adding it without bonuses, but then realized it would lose as an option to fire every time. Tried to think of a way to add some damage on the second round, but everything was either over powered or just blah.
Deekin
05-15-07, 10:44 PM Cus the the energy powers are no longer metacreatevity effect, but a psychokinesis effect. I can see creating acid out of nothing, but I can't see psychokinesis doing acid damage. The Acid powers got moved over to the psy-war list, where they are pyschometablisim, which makes sense, because your generating the acid with your body.
AntiDjinn
05-15-07, 10:53 PM Where has acid gone? To psychometabolism where it belongs. Acid is a physical secretion not an energy type (it can't be conducted through a solid as temperature, electromagnetism, and vibration can). So the egoist and psychic warrior have it (along with some semblance of flavor) with such powers as Dissolving Weapon, and Exhalation of the Black Dragon. Any attempt by kineticists to appropriate it and make it another bland, fill-in-the-blank "energy type" will be met with extreme resistance. Sorry, but psychokinesis will have to be content with 4 energy types selectable upon use; psychometabolism owns acid.
glacialcat
05-15-07, 10:56 PM The way I see it, psions create energy powers by manipulating matter. Sonic energy is created by vibrating particles, since all sonic damage really is is intense vibrations. Fire damage is speeding up molecules, or causing them to generate heat. Cold damage is the opposite, removing speed from molecules or taking heat away. Electricity is causing the electrons to move.

Its not so easy to come up with a pseudo-scientific explanation of causing molecules to turn into acid. Acid powers exist, but they're pretty much only psychometabolism, where you change your own bodily functions to create acid.
wal9000
05-15-07, 11:11 PM Its not so easy to come up with a pseudo-scientific explanation of causing molecules to turn into acid.

Move protons to water in the air, producing hydronium ions? It's a bit more of a stretch than moving electrons around, but none of this stuff actually makes sense in the first place. Personally I wouldn't change anything, but if desired you could make an argument for it.
Moosh Nailo
05-15-07, 11:54 PM Ok, thank all of you for the explanations. They make sense.

glacialcat, I would accept your argument, as it is very reasonable. (AntiDjinn, you taking notes? REASONABLE. Reason.) But in the description of the powers, it says (and I quote, book on lap)
Upon manifesting this power, you choose cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You create a [cone/explosion/ray/etc] of energy of the chosen type...
The word create is the kicker. If you can create fire, cold, electricity, or sonic vibrations, why can't you create acid? Why should acid be left out? If we've already got 4 of the 5 energy types, why not use 'em all? I think acid is already underused, so I'm not going to give it another kick in the crotch by ignoring it again.

Now, if anyone feels like actually giving me a hand figuring out something I could use in my* campaign, it'd be appreciated. Something to give acid it's own little flavour, like the other energies.
Maybe an extra 5 foot splash around the effect, affecting adjacent targets for 1 damage/die, with a reflex save for half. I'm thinking this is too powerful, but it's all I've got.

*MY campaign, as in not yours, as in you don't have to use it. Thank you, and have a nice day.
saidin0111
05-15-07, 11:59 PM You could on the otherhand design Metacreativity powers that immulate the Psychokinesis energy powers, but only have acid and fire as options. The only issue with this is that they would most likely end up ignoring SR and AMF/NPF, making them more powerful than the energy powers, though you might be able to justify that by the lack of options. I would maybe stick with just a few powers like that though. Copies of Energy Ray, Cone, and Ball, maybe Wave (though that big of an area with no SR might be overpowering) would be what I'd recommend.
saidin0111
05-16-07, 12:03 AM Reading your new post, I would say that create should be replaced with generate for rules clarification, as they don't have the creation descriptor, which only applies to metacreativity.

As for an effect for acid, acid usually does damage in subsequent rounds, so either 1 damage per die on the following round or 1 damage per round for a number of rounds equal to the number of die of damage dealt in the initial round.
Moosh Nailo
05-16-07, 12:08 AM But even if it says generate, my point stands. The idea is the power does not use other availaible energy, or matter, or protons, or whatever. It uses it's own newly created/generated stuff, so why couldn't it generate acid just as it generates fire? I don't think it's that much of a stretch.
crizhII
05-16-07, 12:30 PM You could on the otherhand design Metacreativity powers that immulate the Psychokinesis energy powers, but only have acid and fire as options. The only issue with this is that they would most likely end up ignoring SR and AMF/NPF, making them more powerful than the energy powers, though you might be able to justify that by the lack of options. I would maybe stick with just a few powers like that though. Copies of Energy Ray, Cone, and Ball, maybe Wave (though that big of an area with no SR might be overpowering) would be what I'd recommend.

I would propose allowing Acid as a substitute for Crystal in any power with that special effect.

Additionally, any power that uses Ectoplasm ought to have an augment, or higher level version that adds acid effects as well.

Entangling Corrosive Ectoplasm. Mmmmmm.....

Acid is way better than fire BTW. No hardness, yum. :D
Enchanter_Tom
05-16-07, 12:41 PM Random question--is there any clause that states that sonic powers do a minimum damage, or could a power augmented to 20d6 really do zero damage (theoretically; roll all ones for 20-20 damage)?
crizhII
05-16-07, 02:03 PM Random question--is there any clause that states that sonic powers do a minimum damage, or could a power augmented to 20d6 really do zero damage (theoretically; roll all ones for 20-20 damage)?

Minimum damage from any attack is always 1.
Enchanter_Tom
05-16-07, 02:15 PM Minimum damage from any attack is always 1.
Except in the case of resistance or damage reduction...but that's still pretty crummy for the equivalent of a 10th-level power. Wish they had a "to a minimum of one point of damage per die" clause.
crizhII
05-16-07, 04:31 PM Except in the case of resistance or damage reduction...but that's still pretty crummy for the equivalent of a 10th-level power. Wish they had a "to a minimum of one point of damage per die" clause.

It would seem reasonable to house rule it that way.

I usually use sonic to get through objects. The way things currently stand it's much more efficient to hammer away repeatedly with 1PP Energy Rays than to augment them.

Same number of PP's spent but +1 Dmg per 6 PP's. More the way I roll dice... :rolleyes:
Enchanter_Tom
05-16-07, 05:21 PM How are you getting an additional point of damage?
crizhII
05-16-07, 05:50 PM How are you getting an additional point of damage?

1D6-1, avg 2 2/3.

6D6-6, avg 15.

Per die that works out at 2.5.

That's one sixth of a point of damage per die more by splitting them up and doing them one die at a time.
JiCi
05-18-07, 03:57 PM Well, I've made a PrC that allows a psionic character to create acid with his energy powers. I could post it here if you wish.
TheKeyofE
05-19-07, 06:17 AM Where has acid gone? To psychometabolism where it belongs. Acid is a physical secretion not an energy type (it can't be conducted through a solid as temperature, electromagnetism, and vibration can). So the egoist and psychic warrior have it (along with some semblance of flavor) with such powers as Dissolving Weapon, and Exhalation of the Black Dragon. Any attempt by kineticists to appropriate it and make it another bland, fill-in-the-blank "energy type" will be met with extreme resistance. Sorry, but psychokinesis will have to be content with 4 energy types selectable upon use; psychometabolism owns acid.

What he said. Psiwars get acid and the various natural attack powers, and that's about the only things they get that Psions don't. Always made sense to me. *shrug*
Moosh Nailo
05-19-07, 12:59 PM Ok, ok, I give. And JiCi, I'd appreciate a link to your PrC.
JiCi
05-19-07, 04:50 PM Ok, ok, I give. And JiCi, I'd appreciate a link to your PrC.Here you go:

Energy Ballister (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9216705&postcount=160)
JiCi
05-19-07, 04:53 PM What he said. Psiwars get acid and the various natural attack powers, and that's about the only things they get that Psions don't. Always made sense to me. *shrug*Well, if you use the Mantled Warrior alternate class feature, right here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a), and then select the Energy mantle, your Psychic Warrior will be able to use standard energy powers, in addition of acid powers.
Zankue
05-21-07, 12:44 AM I'd say that you should make acid do something totally different if you really want to use it... how about as well as the normal damage of the power it also deals 2 points of damage per damage die to the targets armor, Shield or other types of worn items, I think this makes sense since acid should eat through things and what not.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Moosh Nailo 05-15-07, 07:57 PM	Why is all the acid gone? For all the powers that use energy (energy ray, energy missile, etc.), including fire, cold, electricity and sonic, why is acid not an option? Was it removed for a reason? Did I miss a sentence stating that "acid is too awesome to be included"? Or is it all just a mistake? In which case, what would you guys think would be a good "special effect" to go with acid? (along the lines of +1 damage per die kinda thing) And last but not least, if I'm making a fool of myself about something that's already been "solved", could someone please link the answer? Thankee.
RavinRay 05-15-07, 08:13 PM	Someone said before that from a RW sci-tech perspective acid isn't an energy at all (and Bruce is a molecular biologist). But you can add acid as a variant rule, and state that it deals normal damage (no penalties or bonuses).
calronmoonflower 05-15-07, 08:22 PM	Someone said before that from a RW sci-tech perspective acid isn't an energy at all (and Bruce is a molecular biologist). But you can add acid as a variant rule, and state that it deals normal damage (no penalties or bonuses). Acid basically breaks atomic bonds. Energy could do that.
Moosh Nailo 05-15-07, 10:43 PM	Since when does RW have a say on MIND POWERS? Your post makes perfect sense, RavinRay, and yet leaves me completely unsatified. Nothing personal. Everything else has acid as an option, wherever you look. I considered just adding it without bonuses, but then realized it would lose as an option to fire every time. Tried to think of a way to add some damage on the second round, but everything was either over powered or just blah.
Deekin 05-15-07, 10:44 PM	Cus the the energy powers are no longer metacreatevity effect, but a psychokinesis effect. I can see creating acid out of nothing, but I can't see psychokinesis doing acid damage. The Acid powers got moved over to the psy-war list, where they are pyschometablisim, which makes sense, because your generating the acid with your body.
AntiDjinn 05-15-07, 10:53 PM	Where has acid gone? To psychometabolism where it belongs. Acid is a physical secretion not an energy type (it can't be conducted through a solid as temperature, electromagnetism, and vibration can). So the egoist and psychic warrior have it (along with some semblance of flavor) with such powers as Dissolving Weapon, and Exhalation of the Black Dragon. Any attempt by kineticists to appropriate it and make it another bland, fill-in-the-blank "energy type" will be met with extreme resistance. Sorry, but psychokinesis will have to be content with 4 energy types selectable upon use; psychometabolism owns acid.
glacialcat 05-15-07, 10:56 PM	The way I see it, psions create energy powers by manipulating matter. Sonic energy is created by vibrating particles, since all sonic damage really is is intense vibrations. Fire damage is speeding up molecules, or causing them to generate heat. Cold damage is the opposite, removing speed from molecules or taking heat away. Electricity is causing the electrons to move. Its not so easy to come up with a pseudo-scientific explanation of causing molecules to turn into acid. Acid powers exist, but they're pretty much only psychometabolism, where you change your own bodily functions to create acid.
wal9000 05-15-07, 11:11 PM	Its not so easy to come up with a pseudo-scientific explanation of causing molecules to turn into acid. Move protons to water in the air, producing hydronium ions? It's a bit more of a stretch than moving electrons around, but none of this stuff actually makes sense in the first place. Personally I wouldn't change anything, but if desired you could make an argument for it.
Moosh Nailo 05-15-07, 11:54 PM	Ok, thank all of you for the explanations. They make sense. glacialcat, I would accept your argument, as it is very reasonable. (AntiDjinn, you taking notes? REASONABLE. Reason.) But in the description of the powers, it says (and I quote, book on lap) Upon manifesting this power, you choose cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You create a [cone/explosion/ray/etc] of energy of the chosen type... The word create is the kicker. If you can create fire, cold, electricity, or sonic vibrations, why can't you create acid? Why should acid be left out? If we've already got 4 of the 5 energy types, why not use 'em all? I think acid is already underused, so I'm not going to give it another kick in the crotch by ignoring it again. Now, if anyone feels like actually giving me a hand figuring out something I could use in my* campaign, it'd be appreciated. Something to give acid it's own little flavour, like the other energies. Maybe an extra 5 foot splash around the effect, affecting adjacent targets for 1 damage/die, with a reflex save for half. I'm thinking this is too powerful, but it's all I've got. *MY campaign, as in not yours, as in you don't have to use it. Thank you, and have a nice day.
saidin0111 05-15-07, 11:59 PM	You could on the otherhand design Metacreativity powers that immulate the Psychokinesis energy powers, but only have acid and fire as options. The only issue with this is that they would most likely end up ignoring SR and AMF/NPF, making them more powerful than the energy powers, though you might be able to justify that by the lack of options. I would maybe stick with just a few powers like that though. Copies of Energy Ray, Cone, and Ball, maybe Wave (though that big of an area with no SR might be overpowering) would be what I'd recommend.
saidin0111 05-16-07, 12:03 AM	Reading your new post, I would say that create should be replaced with generate for rules clarification, as they don't have the creation descriptor, which only applies to metacreativity. As for an effect for acid, acid usually does damage in subsequent rounds, so either 1 damage per die on the following round or 1 damage per round for a number of rounds equal to the number of die of damage dealt in the initial round.
Moosh Nailo 05-16-07, 12:08 AM	But even if it says generate, my point stands. The idea is the power does not use other availaible energy, or matter, or protons, or whatever. It uses it's own newly created/generated stuff, so why couldn't it generate acid just as it generates fire? I don't think it's that much of a stretch.
crizhII 05-16-07, 12:30 PM	You could on the otherhand design Metacreativity powers that immulate the Psychokinesis energy powers, but only have acid and fire as options. The only issue with this is that they would most likely end up ignoring SR and AMF/NPF, making them more powerful than the energy powers, though you might be able to justify that by the lack of options. I would maybe stick with just a few powers like that though. Copies of Energy Ray, Cone, and Ball, maybe Wave (though that big of an area with no SR might be overpowering) would be what I'd recommend. I would propose allowing Acid as a substitute for Crystal in any power with that special effect. Additionally, any power that uses Ectoplasm ought to have an augment, or higher level version that adds acid effects as well. Entangling Corrosive Ectoplasm. Mmmmmm..... Acid is way better than fire BTW. No hardness, yum. :D
Enchanter_Tom 05-16-07, 12:41 PM	Random question--is there any clause that states that sonic powers do a minimum damage, or could a power augmented to 20d6 really do zero damage (theoretically; roll all ones for 20-20 damage)?
crizhII 05-16-07, 02:03 PM	Random question--is there any clause that states that sonic powers do a minimum damage, or could a power augmented to 20d6 really do zero damage (theoretically; roll all ones for 20-20 damage)? Minimum damage from any attack is always 1.
Enchanter_Tom 05-16-07, 02:15 PM	Minimum damage from any attack is always 1. Except in the case of resistance or damage reduction...but that's still pretty crummy for the equivalent of a 10th-level power. Wish they had a "to a minimum of one point of damage per die" clause.
crizhII 05-16-07, 04:31 PM	Except in the case of resistance or damage reduction...but that's still pretty crummy for the equivalent of a 10th-level power. Wish they had a "to a minimum of one point of damage per die" clause. It would seem reasonable to house rule it that way. I usually use sonic to get through objects. The way things currently stand it's much more efficient to hammer away repeatedly with 1PP Energy Rays than to augment them. Same number of PP's spent but +1 Dmg per 6 PP's. More the way I roll dice... :rolleyes:
Enchanter_Tom 05-16-07, 05:21 PM	How are you getting an additional point of damage?
crizhII 05-16-07, 05:50 PM	How are you getting an additional point of damage? 1D6-1, avg 2 2/3. 6D6-6, avg 15. Per die that works out at 2.5. That's one sixth of a point of damage per die more by splitting them up and doing them one die at a time.
JiCi 05-18-07, 03:57 PM	Well, I've made a PrC that allows a psionic character to create acid with his energy powers. I could post it here if you wish.
TheKeyofE 05-19-07, 06:17 AM	Where has acid gone? To psychometabolism where it belongs. Acid is a physical secretion not an energy type (it can't be conducted through a solid as temperature, electromagnetism, and vibration can). So the egoist and psychic warrior have it (along with some semblance of flavor) with such powers as Dissolving Weapon, and Exhalation of the Black Dragon. Any attempt by kineticists to appropriate it and make it another bland, fill-in-the-blank "energy type" will be met with extreme resistance. Sorry, but psychokinesis will have to be content with 4 energy types selectable upon use; psychometabolism owns acid. What he said. Psiwars get acid and the various natural attack powers, and that's about the only things they get that Psions don't. Always made sense to me. shrug
Moosh Nailo 05-19-07, 12:59 PM	Ok, ok, I give. And JiCi, I'd appreciate a link to your PrC.
JiCi 05-19-07, 04:50 PM	Ok, ok, I give. And JiCi, I'd appreciate a link to your PrC.Here you go: Energy Ballister (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9216705&postcount=160)
JiCi 05-19-07, 04:53 PM	What he said. Psiwars get acid and the various natural attack powers, and that's about the only things they get that Psions don't. Always made sense to me. shrugWell, if you use the Mantled Warrior alternate class feature, right here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a), and then select the Energy mantle, your Psychic Warrior will be able to use standard energy powers, in addition of acid powers.
Zankue 05-21-07, 12:44 AM	I'd say that you should make acid do something totally different if you really want to use it... how about as well as the normal damage of the power it also deals 2 points of damage per damage die to the targets armor, Shield or other types of worn items, I think this makes sense since acid should eat through things and what not.