Energy push and split psionic ray [Archive] - Wizards Community

Energy push and split psionic ray [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rumple
07-03-07, 11:28 PM Just trying to work out how energy push split in twain manifesting at the same target works. :confused:

Does he take double damage from slamming into a wall if he fails both str checks?

what if he fails one but passes the other? still double damage etc etc

if i could get your fine interpretations i would be grateful. Thanks in advance.
CrimsonDeath
07-04-07, 12:20 AM Energy Push isn't a ray, so it's not subject to the Split Psionic Ray metapsionic feat.

It is, however, subject to Twin Power, in which case the subject would make two saves and a separate Strength check for each save he fails. If he fails both saves and both Strength checks, he takes full energy damage twice and gets pushed back twice. If he hits something the first time he's pushed back, he takes impact damage and is then pushed back again, taking impact damage again. If he only hits something the second time (because being pushed back the first time didn't push him back far enough), he only takes impact damage once.
Rumple
07-04-07, 01:30 AM As far as i am aware it IS a ray. The stat block for the power has the effect:ray descriptor, just at the lvl 1 power energy ray does.
InkBlot
07-04-07, 01:38 AM Crimson, maybe you were thinking of energy stun?

Rumple, a power affected by Split Psionic Ray can't target the same creature twice. Each ray must be aimed at a seperate target.

SPLIT PSIONIC RAY [METAPSIONIC]
You can affect two targets with a single ray.
Prerequisite: Any other metapsionic feat.
Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You can split psionic rays you manifest. The split ray affects any two targets that are both within the power’s range and within 30 feet of each other. If the ray deals damage, each target takes as much damage as a single target would take.

Using this feat increases the power point cost of the power by 2.
Rumple
07-04-07, 01:45 AM ok, cleared up. Thanks very much.
CrimsonDeath
07-04-07, 02:35 AM Crimson, maybe you were thinking of energy stun?
No, I was thinking of Energy Push. I've apparently just been playing it wrong.
Fleem
07-05-07, 10:07 AM Odd. I didn't know you could have rays that didn't require a to-hit roll.
InkBlot
07-05-07, 02:13 PM It doesn't?! OMG! I feel so gyped!

I played a character with energy push a while ago and I played it that you had to make a touch attack roll. It sucked so hard! It was always such a pain in the but to finally hit something with it (there were a lot of dex based enemies) only to have the enemy make his save and make his Str check. Over the course of that character's short carreer, I think I did a grand total of 6 points of damage with energy push, and only knocked a creature back once.
CrimsonDeath
07-05-07, 04:38 PM The way I played it, I wasn't making attack rolls, but I had about as much success as you did, InkBlot. I eventually Reformed it for Concussion Blast, just in case we ran into ghosts or needed to take prisoners.
Prom
07-05-07, 04:53 PM Hi Rumple,

Please tell me your character Iz will hit something with energy push and hurt it. If you have to roll to hit, the enemy rolls to save itself and rolls a strength check. How do you ever achieve anything. I didn't realize how hard it is to do damage with that power. I'll have to pay more attention at the gaming table.

Prom
InkBlot
07-06-07, 01:57 AM The way I played it, I wasn't making attack rolls, but I had about as much success as you did, InkBlot. I eventually Reformed it for Concussion Blast, just in case we ran into ghosts or needed to take prisoners.
That was a good idea.

At 3rd level energy push will always do at least 1d6 damage, with the chance to do 2d6 and knock around the enemy. At that level, concussion blast will always do 1d6. Energy push wins at level 3.

At level 11, energy push will always do at least 3d6 damage, with a chance to do 6d6 and knock around the enemy. At that level, concussion blast will always do 5d6 damage, or 4d6 to two enemies, etc.. Concussion blast wins at level 11, unless you've put a lot of work into your save DCs.

If energy push augmented at the rate of +1d6 per power point, then it might be worth keeping around. The exception would be kineticists, of course, who are way better off with energy missle.
Fleem
07-06-07, 12:33 PM With my current psion character, I have another secondary use for energy push. Since the movement from energy push doesn't trigger attacks of opportunity, you can use it on your own non-tumbling party members to move them through those pesky reach squares. Usually, they come out ahead, taking a little bit of energy damage instead of the giant's massive attack of opportunity. Plus, they get to make a full attack. The only down side to that scheme is that the amount of pushing is variable. Also, the rules are stupidly silent on what happens when you get pushed into an occupied square (which is easy to do with lots of large and larger creatures around). It's like a shuffleboard spell.
pukunui
07-06-07, 09:54 PM Hi all,

Rumple's and Prom's DM here.

I have to say that I find it very intriguing, and perhaps a little bit worrying, that energy push is classed as a ray and yet there's no attack roll required. Perhaps it is an auto-hit ray that doesn't need to be aimed (kinda like a magic missile).

I'd love it if someone like Tempest weighed in on the debate but I don't suppose he will ...

Cheers,
Jonny

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rumple 07-03-07, 11:28 PM	Just trying to work out how energy push split in twain manifesting at the same target works. :confused: Does he take double damage from slamming into a wall if he fails both str checks? what if he fails one but passes the other? still double damage etc etc if i could get your fine interpretations i would be grateful. Thanks in advance.
CrimsonDeath 07-04-07, 12:20 AM	Energy Push isn't a ray, so it's not subject to the Split Psionic Ray metapsionic feat. It is, however, subject to Twin Power, in which case the subject would make two saves and a separate Strength check for each save he fails. If he fails both saves and both Strength checks, he takes full energy damage twice and gets pushed back twice. If he hits something the first time he's pushed back, he takes impact damage and is then pushed back again, taking impact damage again. If he only hits something the second time (because being pushed back the first time didn't push him back far enough), he only takes impact damage once.
Rumple 07-04-07, 01:30 AM	As far as i am aware it IS a ray. The stat block for the power has the effect:ray descriptor, just at the lvl 1 power energy ray does.
InkBlot 07-04-07, 01:38 AM	Crimson, maybe you were thinking of energy stun? Rumple, a power affected by Split Psionic Ray can't target the same creature twice. Each ray must be aimed at a seperate target. SPLIT PSIONIC RAY [METAPSIONIC] You can affect two targets with a single ray. Prerequisite: Any other metapsionic feat. Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You can split psionic rays you manifest. The split ray affects any two targets that are both within the power’s range and within 30 feet of each other. If the ray deals damage, each target takes as much damage as a single target would take. Using this feat increases the power point cost of the power by 2.
Rumple 07-04-07, 01:45 AM	ok, cleared up. Thanks very much.
CrimsonDeath 07-04-07, 02:35 AM	Crimson, maybe you were thinking of energy stun? No, I was thinking of Energy Push. I've apparently just been playing it wrong.
Fleem 07-05-07, 10:07 AM	Odd. I didn't know you could have rays that didn't require a to-hit roll.
InkBlot 07-05-07, 02:13 PM	It doesn't?! OMG! I feel so gyped! I played a character with energy push a while ago and I played it that you had to make a touch attack roll. It sucked so hard! It was always such a pain in the but to finally hit something with it (there were a lot of dex based enemies) only to have the enemy make his save and make his Str check. Over the course of that character's short carreer, I think I did a grand total of 6 points of damage with energy push, and only knocked a creature back once.
CrimsonDeath 07-05-07, 04:38 PM	The way I played it, I wasn't making attack rolls, but I had about as much success as you did, InkBlot. I eventually Reformed it for Concussion Blast, just in case we ran into ghosts or needed to take prisoners.
Prom 07-05-07, 04:53 PM	Hi Rumple, Please tell me your character Iz will hit something with energy push and hurt it. If you have to roll to hit, the enemy rolls to save itself and rolls a strength check. How do you ever achieve anything. I didn't realize how hard it is to do damage with that power. I'll have to pay more attention at the gaming table. Prom
InkBlot 07-06-07, 01:57 AM	The way I played it, I wasn't making attack rolls, but I had about as much success as you did, InkBlot. I eventually Reformed it for Concussion Blast, just in case we ran into ghosts or needed to take prisoners. That was a good idea. At 3rd level energy push will always do at least 1d6 damage, with the chance to do 2d6 and knock around the enemy. At that level, concussion blast will always do 1d6. Energy push wins at level 3. At level 11, energy push will always do at least 3d6 damage, with a chance to do 6d6 and knock around the enemy. At that level, concussion blast will always do 5d6 damage, or 4d6 to two enemies, etc.. Concussion blast wins at level 11, unless you've put a lot of work into your save DCs. If energy push augmented at the rate of +1d6 per power point, then it might be worth keeping around. The exception would be kineticists, of course, who are way better off with energy missle.
Fleem 07-06-07, 12:33 PM	With my current psion character, I have another secondary use for energy push. Since the movement from energy push doesn't trigger attacks of opportunity, you can use it on your own non-tumbling party members to move them through those pesky reach squares. Usually, they come out ahead, taking a little bit of energy damage instead of the giant's massive attack of opportunity. Plus, they get to make a full attack. The only down side to that scheme is that the amount of pushing is variable. Also, the rules are stupidly silent on what happens when you get pushed into an occupied square (which is easy to do with lots of large and larger creatures around). It's like a shuffleboard spell.
pukunui 07-06-07, 09:54 PM	Hi all, Rumple's and Prom's DM here. I have to say that I find it very intriguing, and perhaps a little bit worrying, that energy push is classed as a ray and yet there's no attack roll required. Perhaps it is an auto-hit ray that doesn't need to be aimed (kinda like a magic missile). I'd love it if someone like Tempest weighed in on the debate but I don't suppose he will ... Cheers, Jonny