Post/Author/DateTime	Post
edventure 05-21-07, 12:50 PM	An Erudite can learn a discipline power one level lower than his maximum Psion power. If he can learn a 9th level Psion/Wilder power he can learn an 8th level Discipline power. According to the Epic book, Epic powers count as a 10th level power when it comes to mechanics (saves, despelling, etc...) If a character researches an Epic power, does that mean he can now learn a 9th level Discipline power?
MnemonicSV 05-22-07, 04:47 AM	Paraphrased from SRD (in psionic parlance): Epic Power Levels: Epic powers have no fixed level. However, for purposes of Concentration checks, power resistance, and other possible situations where power level is important, epic powers are all treated as if they were 10th-level powers. Personally, I would say no. The whole "no fixed level" thing implies to me that the 10th-level classification only applies to the power's mechanical effects, not it's relevance for the purpose of class abilities. An erudite's limited maximum power level for discipline powers is a class ability. An epic power falls outside the range of standard rules and most class abilities. For example, an epic psion 20/metamind 10 couldn't use font of power to fuel an epic power (saving a daily epic power use). If an epic power were as simple as a 10th-level power in all regards (including class abilities), it would only cost 19 pp to use and could be metapsionic'ed. ::Shudder:: :twitch: Yet on the other hand, some would argue that this case would fall under "possible situations where power level is important." I wouldn't rule that way, but some might. ----- In any event, if your epic level erudite wants to learn 9th-level discipline powers (or for that matter any 9th-level power not on the psion/wilder power list) he/she always has the standard options: 1) Take the Epic Expanded Knowledge feat, learning a single 9th-level power not on the psion/wilder power list. 2) Have another psionic character who knows both the desired 9th-level power and Psychic Chirurery transfer knowledge of this power to you (this indirectly requires that the psychic chirurgeon be epic level himself if the desired 9th-level power is not a telepathy power). Not many psychic chirurgeons will be willing to spend the 9,000 XP to do so though. 3) Create an epic power that effectively mimics the effect of the desired 9th-level power. It's an ugly option, but it's there. 4) Discuss with the DM whether or not it is possible to create a feat or alternate class ability which would allow you to "bend the rules" to the effect of allowing you to choose discipline powers as though they were psion/wilder powers. Keep in mind, Wotc_Mark mentioned that next month (barring further delays) there will be a Mind's Eye article including Expanded Classes material for the erudite. With luck, it may have an official answer to your question, or perhaps a workaround.
edventure 05-22-07, 09:16 AM	Yet on the other hand, some would argue that this case would fall under "possible situations where power level is important." I wouldn't rule that way, but some might. Yes, that was a sticking point in our debate. The other position was Epic powers are separate from the normal power point pool so this wouldn't apply. Thanks for your response. Anyone else want to put their :twocents: in?
edventure 05-25-07, 02:15 PM	My last :bump: for this thread.
BobbyJim 05-25-07, 03:09 PM	You could just simply add in a house rule that states epic-level Erudites can learn 9th level discipline powers (or ask your DM). In one of the groups I'm in, there is a house rule for Erudites. They learn AND use restricted discipline powers at -2 manifester level. So at 19th level, the erudite could start learning 9th level powers from the restricted discipline lists.
ElyasRavenwood 05-25-07, 11:27 PM	Another possibility might be to use Reality revision to add a 9th level discipline power to your repertoire. This does not sound like an unreasonable use of Reality Revision. The 5,000 exp cost might seem steep. But the more you adventure the more experience you get. Hope this helps