Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 07-17-07, 12:15 AM	Any thoughts on the ability of erudites to learn arcane spells as powers, with expensive material components now costing a 2 pp augment? An erudite-necromancer looks like an interesting path, if you have spare time and power points but scarce onyx. Forcecage is also a handy possibility. Any ideas on neat ways to use this?
unusualsuspect 07-17-07, 12:27 AM	If you thought Simulacrum was bad before... (Edit: For the record, this was suggested in the CharOp board thread on this, which i shamelessly copied)
runestar 07-17-07, 12:33 AM	True resurrection comes to mind. Depending on how your DM rules, trap the soul lets you contain any foe with any number of HD without the need for a super-expensive gem. Throw that worthless ball of earwax at the tarrasque and laugh as it gets sucked in without getting a save or sr check. Apocalypse from the sky no longer requires a minor artifact as a focus now. More may come later if I can think of any.:P
CrimsonDeath 07-17-07, 12:43 AM	True resurrection comes to mind. The Mind's Eye article was edited to limit the selection to arcane spells. Clone would still work though.
myusernameis 07-17-07, 12:49 AM	Why does this sound like a Dweomercheater with power points and no multiclassing needed?
unusualsuspect 07-17-07, 01:01 AM	Why does this sound like a Dweomercheater with power points and no multiclassing needed? XP components still apply - this means Limited Wish is a possibility, but you'd still be paying that hefty XP cost. OH MY GOD, Limited Wish. 13 pp, cast ANY 6th level or lower arcane spell in the game. Also, ANY 5th level or lower divine spell. I don't care if you're paying an xp penalty to use it, that's just golden.
myusernameis 07-17-07, 01:02 AM	Oh ok, so it isn't sounding quite as bad. Personally, I wouldn't use this ability like this at my table, I'd just make it so expensive components require 1/5 their gp cost in xp to use as recommended for spell/power conversions in the XPH.
unusualsuspect 07-17-07, 01:34 AM	Oh ok, so it isn't sounding quite as bad. Personally, I wouldn't use this ability like this at my table, I'd just make it so expensive components require 1/5 their gp cost in xp to use as recommended for spell/power conversions in the XPH. Congratulations, you just unbroke (in my mind) the erudite Mind's Eye variant... at least, insofar as spells as psionic powers can be less broken. That's pretty much the first thing I thought when I read the whole "just up the augmentation cost by 2 for expensive material components" thing, though since I never stated it, there's no proof of that. :D
runestar 07-17-07, 01:55 AM	Create magic tattoo was one spell I liked but never used because of its expensive material component (100gp per pop). With this variant, I can easily maintain up to 3 tattoos on each of my PCs. Each just costs 5PP, has a duration of 1 day, and certain benefits like +1 caster lv and +2 competence bonus to attack rolls are just too tasty to give up. Stoneskin is a no-brainer as well, now that you can work around its 250gp material cost. I shudder to think how this might work with the fabricate line of spells... Still, the idea of trapping a demon lord in my nose snot...:D
unusualsuspect 07-17-07, 02:00 AM	Mephistopheles: "Just like a monkey from which those humans have descended, flinging their fe-" *ka-trapped!* Human Erudite: "Ewwwww."
Ecu 07-17-07, 03:48 AM	I am reposting what I posted in the Expanded Classes VI thread - Personally, there are some specific changes that need to be done in order to make the "spell as power" variant function balanced. These changes come from a discussion between me and Tempest. We had a long discussion about the issue and I do feel that these changes better the Erudite a lot. A) - The new power's default caster level is equal to it's base power point cost and can be augmented by one caster level per power point spent (to a maximum caster level equal to the Erudite's manifestor level). All effects are basted off of this caster level. B) - Any spell with a costly material component requires an XP cost of 1 XP per 5 gold instead of the component. C) - The converted spell becomes a power, it is treaded as a power instead of a spell for all spells, powers, and abilities that affect powers. D) - The Erudite may not convert any spell that manipulates prepared spells ("Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer"), spell slots ("Arcane Fusion", "Absorption"), or power points ("Dweomer of Transferrence", "Mental Pinnacle"). These changes to the system actually make it more thematically fit the concept of an Erudite being able to actually mimic a spell with his psionic talent instead of only "casting a spell with power points." Anyways. Haven't playtested these yet, they should be good.. lemme know if anyone does. Ciao, Ecu
runestar 07-17-07, 04:08 AM	C) - The converted spell becomes a power, it is treaded as a power instead of a spell for all spells, powers, and abilities that affect powers. What is the rationale behind this? Purely thematic, or to avoid abuse from metamagic rods or ....?
unusualsuspect 07-17-07, 04:42 AM	What is the rationale behind this? Purely thematic, or to avoid abuse from metamagic rods or ....? Why not because "An Erudite knows powers, and should be able to apply Metapsionic feats to the stuff he learns, since Metapsionic feats are the only way such effects could be applied to something based on power points without a UA variant or two"?
runestar 07-17-07, 07:46 AM	Why not because "An Erudite knows powers, and should be able to apply Metapsionic feats to the stuff he learns, since Metapsionic feats are the only way such effects could be applied to something based on power points without a UA variant or two"? Because I am dubious if arcane spells interact all that well with metapsionic feats. I will see if there are any potentially broken combos and get back to you later. Or maybe I am just making a mountain out of a molehill.:)
Ecu 07-17-07, 06:36 PM	What is the rationale behind this? Purely thematic, or to avoid abuse from metamagic rods or ....? The rationale is to allow for the newly converted powers to actually be a psionic power. This is especially important in campaigns that use the "psionics is different" variant. There is a similar rationale behind wanting them to become powers and that is powers have displays and not components. Displays can be suppressed by a concentration check, while psionic characters have no still spell or silent spell feat and as such the Erudite is out of luck. Thematically, I see this variant as an Erudite knowing enough about psionics and spellcraft that they are able to create a psionic power that mimics the effects of a spell. This mimic should still be a power though in my opinion, especially as it gives less headaches.