Feat Idea: Mental Bypass [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feat Idea: Mental Bypass [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Psionx
07-23-07, 10:04 PM Mental Bypass [General]

Prerequisites

Cha 14

Benefit

When manifesting a power with the Mind-Affecting descriptor against an intelligent subject protected from Mind-Affecting effects you may make a manifester level check to ignore the subject's protection. The protection granted is equal to the subject's power resistance or spell resistance if it has any. If it does not have power or spell resistance (Or its PR or SR are less than 10+HD) it is treated as having power resistance equal to 10+HD.

Normal

You cannot affect creatures with protection from Mind-Affecting effects with powers that have the Mind-Affecting descriptor.

Special

You may also affect intelligent items with mind affecting powers. Spellcasters may also benefit from this feat when casting spells that have the Mind-Affecting descriptor (they make caster level checks instead). Manifester levels and caster levels stack for the purposes of this check.

EDIT: I really hope this inspires Lycanthromancer in his new book. Also, should expending psionic focus be required (this could actually be a metamagic/metapsionic feat...) and should this also include subjects without intelligence scores? Not sure about objects either...

2nd EDIT: How does the stacking of manifester levels and caster levels sound? Should it be the higher one counted or what?
JulesCARV
07-23-07, 11:46 PM Feat prerequisites usually have odd-numbered ability score requirements, so maybe cha 13 or cha 15 would fit established conventions better. (Are the established conventions logical and worth preserving? Ah, well that's another question.)
Zousha_Omenohu
07-23-07, 11:53 PM I don't know much about psionics, but might I suggest a bit of flavor text. How exactly does this mental bypass thing work?
Psionx
07-24-07, 12:14 AM Fluff coming up->

Through your ability to interact with others on a higher level you have found a way to interact even with those who would ignore you. Basically its like hacking a brain as tank says in the matrix. When you close off one entry way another is opened. Basically its a 50/50 shot at success on an equal level.

EDIT: Think of it like trying to talk to someone who has decided not to listen to you, so instead of speaking with them, you communicate telepathically and force them to hear you. It's ultimately interaction on a higher level.

2nd EDIT: Best way to describe it ever! Same situation with plugging ears but this time you're speaking louder. The other person plugs their ears more. You get a megaphone. The other person gets ear plugs. You get a surround sound boombox and start blasting etc... With increasing levels it depends on who has better earplugs or amplification for noise. Of course, if you have equal 'equipment' you still can't always get through to them and they can't always ignore 100% of what you're saying which is where chance comes in. ZOMG, it's so beautiful :weep:.

3rd EDIT: Should items have resistance equal to their ego score+10?
mod5000
07-24-07, 12:59 AM Wait--does this let you Dominate Monster undead?
Psionx
07-24-07, 01:14 AM Wait--does this let you Dominate Monster undead?

Only if it has an intelligence score of 1 or higher like a Lich or a Mummy.
InkBlot
07-24-07, 01:52 AM Stacking caster and manifester levels is a very bad idea, in my opinion.
CrimsonDeath
07-24-07, 03:47 AM Feat prerequisites usually have odd-numbered ability score requirements, so maybe cha 13 or cha 15 would fit established conventions better. (Are the established conventions logical and worth preserving? Ah, well that's another question.)
I think the established convention simply gives people a slight advantage for having an odd ability score (which is usually indistinguishable from an ability score one point lower).
Psionx
07-24-07, 04:11 AM For the ability score thing, well sure it could go either way, but how much should a caster commit to Cha to get this feat? (I'm leaning towards 13)

I agree on the stacking being a bad idea, but I don't want to discourage a cerebremancer or something like that, so instead: take the best of the 2 and add half of the other sound good? Wizard 10 Psion 11 = 11+5=16?

Also should the character be rewarded for higher charisma with this feat? +X to the check for higher charisma and +X to resistance for high wisdom? (Influence from charisma and Mental Discipline from Wisdom?)
mod5000
07-24-07, 07:22 AM <.< I don't really like it... Intelligent undead and constructs, as well as Mindblank, are the DM's last hold against things that could completely open a well-built plot wide open. I'm all for giving more power to the players, but something like this that allows you to dominate (without too much trouble--just manifest it a few times until you break through!) the BBEG is ... just ... wrong.
Noodles2375
07-24-07, 08:28 AM <.< I don't really like it... Intelligent undead and constructs, as well as Mindblank, are the DM's last hold against things that could completely open a well-built plot wide open. I'm all for giving more power to the players, but something like this that allows you to dominate (without too much trouble--just manifest it a few times until you break through!) the BBEG is ... just ... wrong.

I concur. I really don't think that a single feat with a cha prereq of 14-15 can tear apart a 9th level PrC class ability, or can nerf relatively high level spells like mind blank.

I feel like this feat, as written, fails the "Is there any reason not to take it" test. Maybe if it were a capstone of a series of feats, and also had an ML requirement....
Eldritch_Lord
07-24-07, 09:14 AM I would suggest upping the Cha requirement, maybe to Cha 17 or 19, and make Burrowing Power and Power Penetration (if Power Penetration exists; I'm AFB) a prereq--if you can get through a mind blank, you should be able to get through other stuff, too. Finally, I would allow naturally immune creatures like undead and constructs to have "bypass resistance" like some undead have turn resistance; maybe let it add its highest mental score bonus to its SR/PR or something. Otherwise, I agree this is just a little bit too powerful, but I'm all for breaking through immunities and other perfect defenses.
Psionx
07-24-07, 03:18 PM Ok, I see where you guys are coming from but consider this: The BBEG is almost always higher level than the players, therefore it has higher resistance than the player can roll up naturally. He also gets a save most of the time against the mind-effecting effect. In most cases it would actually be easier to use a save-or-die/suck against him rather than a mind-affecting power/spell. I do agree however that it should be CHA 17. With all this in mind, no bonus from cha and wis, but if you are really worried about the bbeg being out of range, just give it spell resistance/power resistance enough to override most of the characters rolls. I just hate it when most of the psion's save or die powers don't have a chance against creatures immune to mind effecting. BTW, most constructs don't have an intelligence score and ditto with alot of undead so this just makes things more interesting. Lastly, I'm not sure about other prereqs, but if there were to be some, probably make it along the lines of X ranks in diplomacy or knowledge in arcana/psionics/nature/religion etc.

EDIT: Eldritch_Lord, don't worry, if it doesn't have an INT score of 1 or higher, it can't be affected. Just send a legion of zombies and skeletons if you want (or a golem...).
Eldritch_Lord
07-24-07, 03:33 PM EDIT: Eldritch_Lord, don't worry, if it doesn't have an INT score of 1 or higher, it can't be affected. Just send a legion of zombies and skeletons if you want (or a golem...).

I wasn't worried about undead mooks; why waste mind-affecting stuff on them anyways when a simple energy ball will do? I was more worried about very intelligent undead like liches, because it wouldn't make sense for a devious, evil wizard who's lived for hundreds of years to be more vulnerable to mind-affecting powers than a simple zombie. Adding their mental bonus(es) to their resistance makes sense flavor-wise and also allows more intelligent creatures to resist it better, rather than having to arbitrarily add SR/PR to protect them.
Psionx
07-24-07, 03:36 PM Hmm, I'm wondering if this feat would actually cause casters and manifesters to add points to Cha rather than Int or make people play wilders and sorcerers more often? I suppose that the WIS score of the lich should be good enough... Well ok, it does seem that most casters and manifesters don't use high CHA but Will saves are usually high enough so yah it sounds good. What do u guys think? Could it be your manifesting/casting ability score which you get the bonus for as well as resistance with (non casters/manifesters use will for the resistance)?

With all the editations I liked it looks like this

Mental Bypass [General]

Prerequisites

Cha 17, 6 ranks in Diplomacy

Benefit

When manifesting a power with the Mind-Affecting descriptor against an intelligent subject protected from Mind-Affecting effects you may make a manifester level check to ignore the subject's protection. The protection granted is equal to the subject's power resistance or spell resistance if it has any. If it does not have power or spell resistance (Or its PR or SR are less than 10+HD) it is treated as having power resistance equal to 10+HD. Manifesters and Casters may add their key ability modifier to the manifester/caster level check as well as their resistance. Subjects without manifesting or casting abilities add their will modifier to their resistance.

Normal

You cannot affect creatures with protection from Mind-Affecting effects with powers that have the Mind-Affecting descriptor.

Special

You may also affect intelligent items with mind affecting powers. Spellcasters may also benefit from this feat when casting spells that have the Mind-Affecting descriptor (they make caster level checks instead). Manifester levels and caster levels do not stack for the purposes of this check, instead use manifester levels or caster levels depending on which is greater.

Questions:
-Should the half of the other levels rule be applied?
-Should a wizard/cleric get bonuses from both will and int?
Lycanthromancer
07-24-07, 07:28 PM Well, as I already have shatter mind blank performing this function, I don't think 'inspire' is the right word.

Replace outright immunity with PR? Hoo!
forsaken1111
07-24-07, 07:59 PM I accomplished the feat of ignoring mind affecting immunity by utilizing the Psion Adroit prestige class. Its an Elan-only prestige class from Races of the Mind: Elan and its very close to the archmage in fuction. 5 levels, can't be taken until level 12 or so, you sacrifice power points for Psionics Mastery abilities.

One of the abilities you can choose allows you to chose one subtype your powers have. When you are manifesting a power with the chosen subtype against a creature with immunity to that subtype, the creature is treated as though it does not have immunity.

Thus, if you chose, for example, fire... you could do fire damage normally to a red dragon because for your power it is treated as if it did not have fire immunity.

I chose [Mind-Affecting]. Now I can psionically dominate intelligent undead.
Psionx
07-24-07, 09:38 PM @ Lycanthromancer: How long would the effect last though? Personally I'd like to never have to buff unless it was a 24 hour thing and even then.

@ Forsaken: Yet another reason I should buy more D&D psionics books then. Also, you can dominate non-intelligent undead even constructs with that kind of ability.
Rhonin the Big
07-24-07, 09:55 PM I think its overpowered. Mind-effecting powers like ego whip and domination are the most powerful powers in the power, allowing psions the power to bypass immunities makes no creature-type safe from the overpowering powers of his powerful mind.

I counted using the word "power" eleven times in this post in some way shape or form.
Psionx
07-24-07, 10:09 PM Probably better to just SoD or hold person the enemy than to ego whip. Domination is fun though and has its own uses I guess. Ultimately, I think I like lycanthromancer's shatter mind blank idea. I just wish it would apply to objects, but then again, thats what psion adroit is for isn't it?
forsaken1111
07-24-07, 10:13 PM I agree giving it as a feat is sort of overpowered. The way I did it required the sacrifice of a manifester level, 11 power points, and couldn't be done until level 12.
Lycanthromancer
07-24-07, 11:55 PM Psionx: 1 round/level, with the option for augmenting for (slightly) more.
munin
07-25-07, 01:04 PM I keep thinking about invoke magic [LoM], a 9th-level spell that allows you to cast a single spell of 4th level or lower within an antimagic field. Considering that creating a mind blank is harder (higher level) than creating an antimagic field, it seems like it should be harder to break through it too.

I think if you're going to keep this as a feat, it shouldn't be available until mid to high levels (like the lurk augments that affect undead and constructs), it should have prerequisites demonstrating a massive dedication to this single purpose (e.g., Psicraft 12, Burrowing Power, Inquisitor, Psionic Endowment, Greater Psionic Endowment, ability to manifest shatter mind blank seem relevant), it should require you to expend your psionic focus and should have a power point metapsionic augmentation cost (8?). I don't think Charisma and Diplomacy are good prerequisites -- they're not a real opportunity cost to a typical Telepath.

I don't think the check should be against power resistance. All telepathy powers are going to need to check that anyway, so I would do a check vs. immunity, then the power's normal PR check (or vice versa). I also think that higher level powers should be harder to get through. I think it should be a manifester level check vs. 10 + the effect's manifester level or the creature's HD + the level of the power you are trying to get through. To get a 1st-level power through, that's the same as a dispel check, but it gets harder for higher level powers. A power point metapsionic augmentation cost will keep higher level powers out for a while, and the check will make them harder even when they do become available.

MENTAL BYPASS [Metapsionic]
You can bypass immunity to mind-affecting effects.
Prerequisites: Psicraft 12, Burrowing Power, Inquisitor, Psionic Endowment, Greater Psionic Endowment, ability to manifest shatter mind blank.
Benefit: To use this feat you must expend your psionic focus. Make a manifester level check (1d20 + your manifester level) against the mind-affecting immunity. The DC for this check is 10 + the effect's caster or manifester level (for spells or powers) or the creature's Hit Dice (for racial abilities) + the level of the power you are manifesting. If you succeed, you ignore the target's immunity to mind-affecting effects.
This feat is not effective against mindless creatures.
Using this feat increases the power point cost of the power by 8. The power’s total cost cannot exceed your manifester level.

But really, this feels more like the capstone of a prestige class than a feat.

To me, there are three different kinds of immunities to mind-affecting effects: mind shields, mindlessness, and innate unchangeability. Mind blank is a shield -- it keeps mind-affecting effects from getting through -- and it's reasonable that it might be removed or bypassed. Mindless creatures should never be affected by mind-affecting effects (and your feat doesn't, good). Creatures with innate unchangeability of mind (constructs definitely, undead probably*) are trickier -- you have to figure out what you think the immunity actually is and how you're going to get around it. Rationalizing how you can charm a construct is not unlike rationalizing how you can "burn" a fire elemental (I'm not saying you can't do it, you just have to really think about it).

For example, last year I wanted to develop a dominate construct power for an artificer-ish class. I decided that instead of affecting the construct's "mind", it would instead just tweak one little aspect about the construct's nature -- the information about who its owner/creator was. By redirecting that information to myself, I took over the construct for a brief time. I chose to make it a clairsentience power because I like the idea of clairsentience powers having strong effects by knowing or tweaking tiny bits of information.

* personally I don't understand why undead are immune, but then again I think about constructs much more often than I think about undead
Psionx
07-25-07, 01:48 PM I had thought to make it a metapsionic power, but really with lycanthromancer's version I don't think it will be necessary. The duration should be sufficient to affect the opponent for 9 power points and no psionic focus.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Psionx 07-23-07, 10:04 PM	Mental Bypass [General] Prerequisites Cha 14 Benefit When manifesting a power with the Mind-Affecting descriptor against an intelligent subject protected from Mind-Affecting effects you may make a manifester level check to ignore the subject's protection. The protection granted is equal to the subject's power resistance or spell resistance if it has any. If it does not have power or spell resistance (Or its PR or SR are less than 10+HD) it is treated as having power resistance equal to 10+HD. Normal You cannot affect creatures with protection from Mind-Affecting effects with powers that have the Mind-Affecting descriptor. Special You may also affect intelligent items with mind affecting powers. Spellcasters may also benefit from this feat when casting spells that have the Mind-Affecting descriptor (they make caster level checks instead). Manifester levels and caster levels stack for the purposes of this check. EDIT: I really hope this inspires Lycanthromancer in his new book. Also, should expending psionic focus be required (this could actually be a metamagic/metapsionic feat...) and should this also include subjects without intelligence scores? Not sure about objects either... 2nd EDIT: How does the stacking of manifester levels and caster levels sound? Should it be the higher one counted or what?
JulesCARV 07-23-07, 11:46 PM	Feat prerequisites usually have odd-numbered ability score requirements, so maybe cha 13 or cha 15 would fit established conventions better. (Are the established conventions logical and worth preserving? Ah, well that's another question.)
Zousha_Omenohu 07-23-07, 11:53 PM	I don't know much about psionics, but might I suggest a bit of flavor text. How exactly does this mental bypass thing work?
Psionx 07-24-07, 12:14 AM	Fluff coming up-> Through your ability to interact with others on a higher level you have found a way to interact even with those who would ignore you. Basically its like hacking a brain as tank says in the matrix. When you close off one entry way another is opened. Basically its a 50/50 shot at success on an equal level. EDIT: Think of it like trying to talk to someone who has decided not to listen to you, so instead of speaking with them, you communicate telepathically and force them to hear you. It's ultimately interaction on a higher level. 2nd EDIT: Best way to describe it ever! Same situation with plugging ears but this time you're speaking louder. The other person plugs their ears more. You get a megaphone. The other person gets ear plugs. You get a surround sound boombox and start blasting etc... With increasing levels it depends on who has better earplugs or amplification for noise. Of course, if you have equal 'equipment' you still can't always get through to them and they can't always ignore 100% of what you're saying which is where chance comes in. ZOMG, it's so beautiful :weep:. 3rd EDIT: Should items have resistance equal to their ego score+10?
mod5000 07-24-07, 12:59 AM	Wait--does this let you Dominate Monster undead?
Psionx 07-24-07, 01:14 AM	Wait--does this let you Dominate Monster undead? Only if it has an intelligence score of 1 or higher like a Lich or a Mummy.
InkBlot 07-24-07, 01:52 AM	Stacking caster and manifester levels is a very bad idea, in my opinion.
CrimsonDeath 07-24-07, 03:47 AM	Feat prerequisites usually have odd-numbered ability score requirements, so maybe cha 13 or cha 15 would fit established conventions better. (Are the established conventions logical and worth preserving? Ah, well that's another question.) I think the established convention simply gives people a slight advantage for having an odd ability score (which is usually indistinguishable from an ability score one point lower).
Psionx 07-24-07, 04:11 AM	For the ability score thing, well sure it could go either way, but how much should a caster commit to Cha to get this feat? (I'm leaning towards 13) I agree on the stacking being a bad idea, but I don't want to discourage a cerebremancer or something like that, so instead: take the best of the 2 and add half of the other sound good? Wizard 10 Psion 11 = 11+5=16? Also should the character be rewarded for higher charisma with this feat? +X to the check for higher charisma and +X to resistance for high wisdom? (Influence from charisma and Mental Discipline from Wisdom?)
mod5000 07-24-07, 07:22 AM	<.< I don't really like it... Intelligent undead and constructs, as well as Mindblank, are the DM's last hold against things that could completely open a well-built plot wide open. I'm all for giving more power to the players, but something like this that allows you to dominate (without too much trouble--just manifest it a few times until you break through!) the BBEG is ... just ... wrong.
Noodles2375 07-24-07, 08:28 AM	<.< I don't really like it... Intelligent undead and constructs, as well as Mindblank, are the DM's last hold against things that could completely open a well-built plot wide open. I'm all for giving more power to the players, but something like this that allows you to dominate (without too much trouble--just manifest it a few times until you break through!) the BBEG is ... just ... wrong. I concur. I really don't think that a single feat with a cha prereq of 14-15 can tear apart a 9th level PrC class ability, or can nerf relatively high level spells like mind blank. I feel like this feat, as written, fails the "Is there any reason not to take it" test. Maybe if it were a capstone of a series of feats, and also had an ML requirement....
Eldritch_Lord 07-24-07, 09:14 AM	I would suggest upping the Cha requirement, maybe to Cha 17 or 19, and make Burrowing Power and Power Penetration (if Power Penetration exists; I'm AFB) a prereq--if you can get through a mind blank, you should be able to get through other stuff, too. Finally, I would allow naturally immune creatures like undead and constructs to have "bypass resistance" like some undead have turn resistance; maybe let it add its highest mental score bonus to its SR/PR or something. Otherwise, I agree this is just a little bit too powerful, but I'm all for breaking through immunities and other perfect defenses.
Psionx 07-24-07, 03:18 PM	Ok, I see where you guys are coming from but consider this: The BBEG is almost always higher level than the players, therefore it has higher resistance than the player can roll up naturally. He also gets a save most of the time against the mind-effecting effect. In most cases it would actually be easier to use a save-or-die/suck against him rather than a mind-affecting power/spell. I do agree however that it should be CHA 17. With all this in mind, no bonus from cha and wis, but if you are really worried about the bbeg being out of range, just give it spell resistance/power resistance enough to override most of the characters rolls. I just hate it when most of the psion's save or die powers don't have a chance against creatures immune to mind effecting. BTW, most constructs don't have an intelligence score and ditto with alot of undead so this just makes things more interesting. Lastly, I'm not sure about other prereqs, but if there were to be some, probably make it along the lines of X ranks in diplomacy or knowledge in arcana/psionics/nature/religion etc. EDIT: Eldritch_Lord, don't worry, if it doesn't have an INT score of 1 or higher, it can't be affected. Just send a legion of zombies and skeletons if you want (or a golem...).
Eldritch_Lord 07-24-07, 03:33 PM	EDIT: Eldritch_Lord, don't worry, if it doesn't have an INT score of 1 or higher, it can't be affected. Just send a legion of zombies and skeletons if you want (or a golem...). I wasn't worried about undead mooks; why waste mind-affecting stuff on them anyways when a simple energy ball will do? I was more worried about very intelligent undead like liches, because it wouldn't make sense for a devious, evil wizard who's lived for hundreds of years to be more vulnerable to mind-affecting powers than a simple zombie. Adding their mental bonus(es) to their resistance makes sense flavor-wise and also allows more intelligent creatures to resist it better, rather than having to arbitrarily add SR/PR to protect them.
Psionx 07-24-07, 03:36 PM	Hmm, I'm wondering if this feat would actually cause casters and manifesters to add points to Cha rather than Int or make people play wilders and sorcerers more often? I suppose that the WIS score of the lich should be good enough... Well ok, it does seem that most casters and manifesters don't use high CHA but Will saves are usually high enough so yah it sounds good. What do u guys think? Could it be your manifesting/casting ability score which you get the bonus for as well as resistance with (non casters/manifesters use will for the resistance)? With all the editations I liked it looks like this Mental Bypass [General] Prerequisites Cha 17, 6 ranks in Diplomacy Benefit When manifesting a power with the Mind-Affecting descriptor against an intelligent subject protected from Mind-Affecting effects you may make a manifester level check to ignore the subject's protection. The protection granted is equal to the subject's power resistance or spell resistance if it has any. If it does not have power or spell resistance (Or its PR or SR are less than 10+HD) it is treated as having power resistance equal to 10+HD. Manifesters and Casters may add their key ability modifier to the manifester/caster level check as well as their resistance. Subjects without manifesting or casting abilities add their will modifier to their resistance. Normal You cannot affect creatures with protection from Mind-Affecting effects with powers that have the Mind-Affecting descriptor. Special You may also affect intelligent items with mind affecting powers. Spellcasters may also benefit from this feat when casting spells that have the Mind-Affecting descriptor (they make caster level checks instead). Manifester levels and caster levels do not stack for the purposes of this check, instead use manifester levels or caster levels depending on which is greater. Questions: -Should the half of the other levels rule be applied? -Should a wizard/cleric get bonuses from both will and int?
Lycanthromancer 07-24-07, 07:28 PM	Well, as I already have shatter mind blank performing this function, I don't think 'inspire' is the right word. Replace outright immunity with PR? Hoo!
forsaken1111 07-24-07, 07:59 PM	I accomplished the feat of ignoring mind affecting immunity by utilizing the Psion Adroit prestige class. Its an Elan-only prestige class from Races of the Mind: Elan and its very close to the archmage in fuction. 5 levels, can't be taken until level 12 or so, you sacrifice power points for Psionics Mastery abilities. One of the abilities you can choose allows you to chose one subtype your powers have. When you are manifesting a power with the chosen subtype against a creature with immunity to that subtype, the creature is treated as though it does not have immunity. Thus, if you chose, for example, fire... you could do fire damage normally to a red dragon because for your power it is treated as if it did not have fire immunity. I chose [Mind-Affecting]. Now I can psionically dominate intelligent undead.
Psionx 07-24-07, 09:38 PM	@ Lycanthromancer: How long would the effect last though? Personally I'd like to never have to buff unless it was a 24 hour thing and even then. @ Forsaken: Yet another reason I should buy more D&D psionics books then. Also, you can dominate non-intelligent undead even constructs with that kind of ability.
Rhonin the Big 07-24-07, 09:55 PM	I think its overpowered. Mind-effecting powers like ego whip and domination are the most powerful powers in the power, allowing psions the power to bypass immunities makes no creature-type safe from the overpowering powers of his powerful mind. I counted using the word "power" eleven times in this post in some way shape or form.
Psionx 07-24-07, 10:09 PM	Probably better to just SoD or hold person the enemy than to ego whip. Domination is fun though and has its own uses I guess. Ultimately, I think I like lycanthromancer's shatter mind blank idea. I just wish it would apply to objects, but then again, thats what psion adroit is for isn't it?
forsaken1111 07-24-07, 10:13 PM	I agree giving it as a feat is sort of overpowered. The way I did it required the sacrifice of a manifester level, 11 power points, and couldn't be done until level 12.
Lycanthromancer 07-24-07, 11:55 PM	Psionx: 1 round/level, with the option for augmenting for (slightly) more.
munin 07-25-07, 01:04 PM	I keep thinking about invoke magic [LoM], a 9th-level spell that allows you to cast a single spell of 4th level or lower within an antimagic field. Considering that creating a mind blank is harder (higher level) than creating an antimagic field, it seems like it should be harder to break through it too. I think if you're going to keep this as a feat, it shouldn't be available until mid to high levels (like the lurk augments that affect undead and constructs), it should have prerequisites demonstrating a massive dedication to this single purpose (e.g., Psicraft 12, Burrowing Power, Inquisitor, Psionic Endowment, Greater Psionic Endowment, ability to manifest shatter mind blank seem relevant), it should require you to expend your psionic focus and should have a power point metapsionic augmentation cost (8?). I don't think Charisma and Diplomacy are good prerequisites -- they're not a real opportunity cost to a typical Telepath. I don't think the check should be against power resistance. All telepathy powers are going to need to check that anyway, so I would do a check vs. immunity, then the power's normal PR check (or vice versa). I also think that higher level powers should be harder to get through. I think it should be a manifester level check vs. 10 + the effect's manifester level or the creature's HD + the level of the power you are trying to get through. To get a 1st-level power through, that's the same as a dispel check, but it gets harder for higher level powers. A power point metapsionic augmentation cost will keep higher level powers out for a while, and the check will make them harder even when they do become available. MENTAL BYPASS [Metapsionic] You can bypass immunity to mind-affecting effects. Prerequisites: Psicraft 12, Burrowing Power, Inquisitor, Psionic Endowment, Greater Psionic Endowment, ability to manifest shatter mind blank. Benefit: To use this feat you must expend your psionic focus. Make a manifester level check (1d20 + your manifester level) against the mind-affecting immunity. The DC for this check is 10 + the effect's caster or manifester level (for spells or powers) or the creature's Hit Dice (for racial abilities) + the level of the power you are manifesting. If you succeed, you ignore the target's immunity to mind-affecting effects. This feat is not effective against mindless creatures. Using this feat increases the power point cost of the power by 8. The power’s total cost cannot exceed your manifester level. But really, this feels more like the capstone of a prestige class than a feat. To me, there are three different kinds of immunities to mind-affecting effects: mind shields, mindlessness, and innate unchangeability. Mind blank is a shield -- it keeps mind-affecting effects from getting through -- and it's reasonable that it might be removed or bypassed. Mindless creatures should never be affected by mind-affecting effects (and your feat doesn't, good). Creatures with innate unchangeability of mind (constructs definitely, undead probably) are trickier -- you have to figure out what you think the immunity actually is and how you're going to get around it. Rationalizing how you can charm a construct is not unlike rationalizing how you can "burn" a fire elemental (I'm not saying you can't do it, you just have to really think about it). For example, last year I wanted to develop a dominate construct power for an artificer-ish class. I decided that instead of affecting the construct's "mind", it would instead just tweak one little aspect about the construct's nature -- the information about who its owner/creator was. By redirecting that information to myself, I took over the construct for a brief time. I chose to make it a clairsentience power because I like the idea of clairsentience powers having strong effects by knowing or tweaking tiny bits of information. personally I don't understand why undead are immune, but then again I think about constructs much more often than I think about undead
Psionx 07-25-07, 01:48 PM	I had thought to make it a metapsionic power, but really with lycanthromancer's version I don't think it will be necessary. The duration should be sufficient to affect the opponent for 9 power points and no psionic focus.