Feats for a Psion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feats for a Psion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Deathmond
04-01-08, 02:42 PM I'm making an Erudite at level 1 with the alternate class feature to convert spells to powers.This is my first psionic character, and I'm trying to make some feat choices. I'm not really sure what would be good choices.

I have so far:
Psicrystal Affinity(Erudite bonus)
Hidden Talent: Astral Contruct (level 1)
Focused Skill User[Spellcraft, Psicraft, Concentration] (Flaw)
Psionic Body (Flaw)
Courteous Magocracy (Regional)

At the moment I'm stuck between Psicrystal Containment and Skin of the Construct at level 3. I know I'm getting Psicrystal Containment at some point no matter what, but I don't know if I should get skin of the construct. It seems to add a lot of versatility to a character, but I can't decide whether that'll taper off at higher levels, or get better because of the longer duration.
At level 6 (or 5 if Skin of the Construct is deemed not worth it) I plan to take Psionic Meditation, but after that I'm just planning to pick up metapsionic feats since I don't really know which feats are good for a psionicist. I'd like to try to make all or nearly all of my feats psionic to boost Psionic Body.

Additions:
Hidden Talent: Astral Construct was chosen because of the 2pp, 2hp and the fact that astral construct seems like a very versatile power for a class who can use so few unique powers per day. This way I don't have to find someone in-game to learn it from.
Focused Skill User was chosen because I have a feeling the DM may not allow me to take ten on checks to learn powers or convert spells.
Psionic Body is just for the survivability. I realize it won't last, but for now I have the second highest hp at 15.

I should also point out that this is in an alternate version of the forgotten realms where there's an organization known as the Mindshatterers that's dedicated to hunting down psions as evil, tainted beings. It should be easy to find people to learn spells from, but actual psionic powers are likely to be uncommon (unless someone decides to change their character into another psionic character...then it'll become more interesting).
CrimsonDeath
04-01-08, 02:48 PM If you're going to take Hidden Talent at level 1, you'd probably be better off choosing a Psychic Warrior, Lurk, or Ardent power. You can probably learn Astral Construct from a power stone.
Deathmond
04-02-08, 06:15 PM Ok, so the DM has actually ruled that Hidden Talent can only be taken by non-psionic characters. Would Overchannel be a good replacement?
Lycanthromancer
04-02-08, 07:02 PM Ok, so the DM has actually ruled that Hidden Talent can only be taken by non-psionic characters. Would Overchannel be a good replacement?It depends on what you want to do, and how you plan on negating the damage you take from using it.

If you have a lot of powers that scale really well, Overchannel is an excellent feat (especially when mixed with metapsionics). Powers like astral construct, inertial armor, and dispel psionics use Overchannel really well. If you don't want to take the damage from using it, however, you'll either need the Talented feat or you'll need to use vigor to soak up the damage. Hardness may or may not reduce damage taken from Overchannel, so that's up in the air.

If you suspect that you'll have downtime in which to craft, try the Imprint Stone feat, which allows you to manifest from power stones (and not from your Unique Powers Per Day). This is especially good for utility powers, as well as if you use the CPsi errata stating that you can manifest using your own manifester level and power points.

Otherwise, figure out what your primary powers are going to be, and find something that runs well on that. (If you research astral construct to add to your powers known list, a good feat would be Boost Construct.)
Deathmond
04-02-08, 07:24 PM Actually, I found out there's going to be another psion in the game, so at least I'll have some breathing room about being able to learn powers from someone. I'm going to see if he'll be able to get astral construct so I can learn it from him. If he can't, I'll try researching it/searching for a powerstone of it.
The problem with getting Boost Construct would be that I don't actually have a construct to boost, thus the DM probably wouldn't allow it.

I'm hoping that between my good ac for a first level d4 class (15HP), the Elan racial, and Vigor I can neutralize the Overchannel damage until level 3 when I can learn my scroll of arcane cure light wounds and I can heal myself.

Oh, and I'm reluctant to spend more xp on items when I'm already going to be spending it on learning new powers/spells. I have read the XP is a River (the CO post abot how you mechanically get more xp by staying a level behind). The DM has also mentioned that the campaign is time sensitive in that it's set one year before the Force Flight of the Dragons (I've been told it's an event where dragons go crazy and ravage the land).
AntiDjinn
04-02-08, 11:48 PM If you are elan and plan on using Vigor, then you can probably ditch Psionic Body. If you are chewing through hit points that fast as a primary manifester then your fighters are not doing their jobs. Also, you only have one other psionic feat so it is only giving you +4 hits. Instead of spending the feat being a sturdier punching bag, you could spend it on something that lets you be more effective. Or you could just ditch it and have one less flaw. Flaws are tempting but there is a definite diminishing return where they gimp you more than the extra feat helps. One rule of thumb I have seen on the boards: If you take a flaw, select a feat that gets better at higher levels or that is a prereq for something. Flaws are static, so if you use the added slot for something dynamic you will come out ahead.

If you are planning on taking Skin of the Construct at all, then take it early because its punch is definitely low-end. Basically, the cost of using the feat is: Your psionic focus (hurts or not, depending on your other options for using it and the type of action you need to get it back), a 1 round action (not bad, but don't give up AoO's doing this, and do consider what your character could have accomplished in that round), and 1 power point (never more). The benefit is 1d8 temporary hit points (average 4.5 points, just below what you would have gotten putting that 1 point into Vigor, and more efficient than preventing the same amount of damage with Resilience) plus a feat (Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Mobility, or Power Attack) or +1 deflection to AC, or +10 to ground speed (superior to the Burst power), or 20 feet of winged flight, or a swim speed of 30, or +5 additional temp hits (which makes it about 5 times as efficient as Resilience overall). The problem is: The feat is static. It does what it does as soon as you get it and never gets any better. This is why it only costs 1 point: Spending more points does not make it work better (unless the DM requires you to manifest a construct with enough Str to carry you as a light or medium load in order to use the 3 movement modifiers). Also, it is not like an erudite really needs Cleave or Improved Bull Rush. What you will find after a few levels is that it really isn't worth the round it takes to activate it plus the move action (or another round) to get your focus back. At that point, you will want to reform it away, but you will probably get plenty of good use out if it before then.
Deathmond
04-03-08, 01:18 AM Psicrystal Affinity(Erudite bonus)
Hidden Talent: Astral Contruct (level 1)<--Is changed to Overchannel
Focused Skill User[Spellcraft, Psicraft, Concentration] (Flaw)
Psionic Body (Flaw)

And actually all of those are psionic feats, providing me a +8, already making it at least as effective as improved toughness through level 8. I did mention that I hope to make all of my feats psionic/metapsionic. (I know...not great, but not horrible either and it does keep scaling up.) I probably won't be taking skin of the construct, because I can't get astral construct until at least 3 and only then if the other psionicist knows it or we find a powerstone or something.

The flaws I took are Skulker and Murky Eyes. Murky Eyes is the standard roll concealment miss chances twice. Skulker is: You have to make a DC15 Will save whenever an enemy engages you in melee combat, if you fail you become shaken until you move out of their threatened area. Why would I NOT take this? It's barely an inconvenience at level 1 and becomes null at higher levels.

At this point I see myself taking Psicrystal Containment, Psionic Meditation, and possibly Talented in that order at 3, 5, and 6. Possibly put Talented at 3rd to deal with the damage of Overchannel, since I don't have much to expend my focus on. After that I see Metapsionics in my future. Lots of Metapsionics.

And taking those 3 feats puts psionic body on the same level as a level 14 improved toughness.

I'm sincerely hoping to not have to rely on Vigor soon. I just won't have the unique powers per day to do IT and be at all effective in combat.
The_Mess
04-03-08, 02:24 AM Hidden Talent isn't a psionic feat. It can't be. Psionic feats require you to have power points before you can take them. Hidden talent makes you psionic, it wouldn't make much sense to require you to already be psionic.
Deathmond
04-03-08, 03:08 PM Which is another good reason for changing it to Overchannel.
AntiDjinn
04-04-08, 12:31 AM You may also find Focused Skill User turns out to be disappointing in play, especially for the three skills you have chosen. It is, after all, merely Skill Focus with the restriction of needing to be focused, but expanded to cover three skills. Skill Focus is never a heavy hitter, and the same with a limitation is going to be less so.

Spellcraft and Psicraft are going to get you less mileage than you think: Dispel Psionics does not have the counterspell feature that Dispel Magic does. As for Concentration, at lower levels your principle use is going to be getting focused; and Focused Skill User will never help you do that. Once you are focused, if there is a Concentration check that you can't afford to fail, then expending to take 15 is more reliable than +2 on the roll. If you really want +2 on Concentration checks then just select Single-minded as your psicrystal personality; you are taking that feat anyway and the bonus will apply to all Concentration checks whether or not you are focused.
Lycanthromancer
04-04-08, 11:33 AM If Concentration is an issue, you should try for a masterwork skill item. +2 to Concentration checks via a MW meditation crystal (MW tool cost: 55 gp). Using your psicrystal via an Aid Another check is another +2.
AntiDjinn
04-04-08, 12:22 PM Besides which, since you are concerned enough about hit points to spend feats on it, I am going to guess that you put a good score into Con. Always a good idea since it shores up your poor Fortitude save and gives extra hit points every level. If you max out ranks in the skill, have a high Con, and take the Single-minded pet rock, then you should rarely blow the roll to get focused. And once you are focused, even having to roll for Concentration is at your option.
Deathmond
04-04-08, 05:47 PM Actually, in play focused skill user proved to be surprisingly useful. Though, I do see how it is going to be useless in a couple levels. It actually saved me from failing a couple checks to learn spells. I can't change my choice because we had our first game, but if the game lasts I plan to grab psychic reformation. I actually did take the single-minded trait and my con is 16.
All stats are: 12/16/16/16/14/12 after racials.
AntiDjinn
04-04-08, 07:02 PM That is the beauty of Psychic Reformation: No buyer's remorse. You can use the +2 feats for the level ranges where they pay off, then ditch at the levels where your purchased ranks and items make that a drop in the bucket.

Single-minded + 16 Con + max ranks means at first level you get +9 on Concentration checks. The DC to get focused is 20, so you come in at just under 50%. Within a few levels you won't even be sweating it.
Deathmond
04-04-08, 10:04 PM What's really quite sad is that I almost failed a psicraft and a spellcraft check to learn a 0 level spell. One would have failed without the +2 bonus for my masterwork tool, and the other would have failed without my psicrystal Aiding.

Spellcraft: 4 Ranks + 3 Int + 2 Tool + 2 Spellwise+ +2 Aid Another and I STILL nearly failed :(

Courteous Magocracy was a 3.0 feat, so it got changed to the 3.5 Halruaa regional most like it, being Spellwise.
castlemike
04-11-08, 08:19 PM I'd suggest the Hidden Talent feat Astral Construct for an always on psionic power independent of your limited Erudite daily usage powers.
KyussWren
04-12-08, 04:34 AM Explain to me how Psionic Body is a flaw.
It gives you bonus hp for each psionic feat you have or gain.
Thats about the one part of this that doesn't make any sense.
AntiDjinn
04-12-08, 10:44 AM He used a flaw to pay for the added slot. Otherwise, he would have more feats than would be allowed at that level. Flaws are an optional character creation rule. If the DM forgets to enforce them, then they are a free power boost. Take too many and they hurt more than the added feats help. If used correctly they are balanced; they are supposed to hinder a character almost exactly as much as the added feat helps.

One thing to note for manifesters: Although flaws are traditionally thought of a being a negative feat, they are not subject to Psychic Reformation. You can reform the feats you gain, but you are stuck with your flaws. A DM might allow them to be reformed, but if a character can switch out disadvantages between adventures based on what he anticipates to be an issue, then they essentially cease to be disadvantages. Flaws that are purely mental, such as phobias, might be removed with Psychic Chiurgery, but you should either have to take a different flaw or loose a feat to stay mechanically balanced.
Deathmond
04-12-08, 08:39 PM 0.o I had never even thought of reforming the flaws! I won't do it, but that is an interesting thought. I'm planning to reform Focused Skill User into something else, because by then it will have by far passed the levels where it's actually useful (AKA: levels 1 and 2).

I'll also say that Psionic Body helped a lot. We're a group of 6, with 5 of us being d4 casters/manifesters and the last guy being a Barbarian. I had as much hp as the barbarian, and actually ended up taking the majority of the damage (in fact, had I not been Elan I may have very well died without the resilience ability).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Deathmond 04-01-08, 02:42 PM	I'm making an Erudite at level 1 with the alternate class feature to convert spells to powers.This is my first psionic character, and I'm trying to make some feat choices. I'm not really sure what would be good choices. I have so far: Psicrystal Affinity(Erudite bonus) Hidden Talent: Astral Contruct (level 1) Focused Skill User[Spellcraft, Psicraft, Concentration] (Flaw) Psionic Body (Flaw) Courteous Magocracy (Regional) At the moment I'm stuck between Psicrystal Containment and Skin of the Construct at level 3. I know I'm getting Psicrystal Containment at some point no matter what, but I don't know if I should get skin of the construct. It seems to add a lot of versatility to a character, but I can't decide whether that'll taper off at higher levels, or get better because of the longer duration. At level 6 (or 5 if Skin of the Construct is deemed not worth it) I plan to take Psionic Meditation, but after that I'm just planning to pick up metapsionic feats since I don't really know which feats are good for a psionicist. I'd like to try to make all or nearly all of my feats psionic to boost Psionic Body. Additions: Hidden Talent: Astral Construct was chosen because of the 2pp, 2hp and the fact that astral construct seems like a very versatile power for a class who can use so few unique powers per day. This way I don't have to find someone in-game to learn it from. Focused Skill User was chosen because I have a feeling the DM may not allow me to take ten on checks to learn powers or convert spells. Psionic Body is just for the survivability. I realize it won't last, but for now I have the second highest hp at 15. I should also point out that this is in an alternate version of the forgotten realms where there's an organization known as the Mindshatterers that's dedicated to hunting down psions as evil, tainted beings. It should be easy to find people to learn spells from, but actual psionic powers are likely to be uncommon (unless someone decides to change their character into another psionic character...then it'll become more interesting).
CrimsonDeath 04-01-08, 02:48 PM	If you're going to take Hidden Talent at level 1, you'd probably be better off choosing a Psychic Warrior, Lurk, or Ardent power. You can probably learn Astral Construct from a power stone.
Deathmond 04-02-08, 06:15 PM	Ok, so the DM has actually ruled that Hidden Talent can only be taken by non-psionic characters. Would Overchannel be a good replacement?
Lycanthromancer 04-02-08, 07:02 PM	Ok, so the DM has actually ruled that Hidden Talent can only be taken by non-psionic characters. Would Overchannel be a good replacement?It depends on what you want to do, and how you plan on negating the damage you take from using it. If you have a lot of powers that scale really well, Overchannel is an excellent feat (especially when mixed with metapsionics). Powers like astral construct, inertial armor, and dispel psionics use Overchannel really well. If you don't want to take the damage from using it, however, you'll either need the Talented feat or you'll need to use vigor to soak up the damage. Hardness may or may not reduce damage taken from Overchannel, so that's up in the air. If you suspect that you'll have downtime in which to craft, try the Imprint Stone feat, which allows you to manifest from power stones (and not from your Unique Powers Per Day). This is especially good for utility powers, as well as if you use the CPsi errata stating that you can manifest using your own manifester level and power points. Otherwise, figure out what your primary powers are going to be, and find something that runs well on that. (If you research astral construct to add to your powers known list, a good feat would be Boost Construct.)
Deathmond 04-02-08, 07:24 PM	Actually, I found out there's going to be another psion in the game, so at least I'll have some breathing room about being able to learn powers from someone. I'm going to see if he'll be able to get astral construct so I can learn it from him. If he can't, I'll try researching it/searching for a powerstone of it. The problem with getting Boost Construct would be that I don't actually have a construct to boost, thus the DM probably wouldn't allow it. I'm hoping that between my good ac for a first level d4 class (15HP), the Elan racial, and Vigor I can neutralize the Overchannel damage until level 3 when I can learn my scroll of arcane cure light wounds and I can heal myself. Oh, and I'm reluctant to spend more xp on items when I'm already going to be spending it on learning new powers/spells. I have read the XP is a River (the CO post abot how you mechanically get more xp by staying a level behind). The DM has also mentioned that the campaign is time sensitive in that it's set one year before the Force Flight of the Dragons (I've been told it's an event where dragons go crazy and ravage the land).
AntiDjinn 04-02-08, 11:48 PM	If you are elan and plan on using Vigor, then you can probably ditch Psionic Body. If you are chewing through hit points that fast as a primary manifester then your fighters are not doing their jobs. Also, you only have one other psionic feat so it is only giving you +4 hits. Instead of spending the feat being a sturdier punching bag, you could spend it on something that lets you be more effective. Or you could just ditch it and have one less flaw. Flaws are tempting but there is a definite diminishing return where they gimp you more than the extra feat helps. One rule of thumb I have seen on the boards: If you take a flaw, select a feat that gets better at higher levels or that is a prereq for something. Flaws are static, so if you use the added slot for something dynamic you will come out ahead. If you are planning on taking Skin of the Construct at all, then take it early because its punch is definitely low-end. Basically, the cost of using the feat is: Your psionic focus (hurts or not, depending on your other options for using it and the type of action you need to get it back), a 1 round action (not bad, but don't give up AoO's doing this, and do consider what your character could have accomplished in that round), and 1 power point (never more). The benefit is 1d8 temporary hit points (average 4.5 points, just below what you would have gotten putting that 1 point into Vigor, and more efficient than preventing the same amount of damage with Resilience) plus a feat (Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Mobility, or Power Attack) or +1 deflection to AC, or +10 to ground speed (superior to the Burst power), or 20 feet of winged flight, or a swim speed of 30, or +5 additional temp hits (which makes it about 5 times as efficient as Resilience overall). The problem is: The feat is static. It does what it does as soon as you get it and never gets any better. This is why it only costs 1 point: Spending more points does not make it work better (unless the DM requires you to manifest a construct with enough Str to carry you as a light or medium load in order to use the 3 movement modifiers). Also, it is not like an erudite really needs Cleave or Improved Bull Rush. What you will find after a few levels is that it really isn't worth the round it takes to activate it plus the move action (or another round) to get your focus back. At that point, you will want to reform it away, but you will probably get plenty of good use out if it before then.
Deathmond 04-03-08, 01:18 AM	Psicrystal Affinity(Erudite bonus) Hidden Talent: Astral Contruct (level 1)<--Is changed to Overchannel Focused Skill User[Spellcraft, Psicraft, Concentration] (Flaw) Psionic Body (Flaw) And actually all of those are psionic feats, providing me a +8, already making it at least as effective as improved toughness through level 8. I did mention that I hope to make all of my feats psionic/metapsionic. (I know...not great, but not horrible either and it does keep scaling up.) I probably won't be taking skin of the construct, because I can't get astral construct until at least 3 and only then if the other psionicist knows it or we find a powerstone or something. The flaws I took are Skulker and Murky Eyes. Murky Eyes is the standard roll concealment miss chances twice. Skulker is: You have to make a DC15 Will save whenever an enemy engages you in melee combat, if you fail you become shaken until you move out of their threatened area. Why would I NOT take this? It's barely an inconvenience at level 1 and becomes null at higher levels. At this point I see myself taking Psicrystal Containment, Psionic Meditation, and possibly Talented in that order at 3, 5, and 6. Possibly put Talented at 3rd to deal with the damage of Overchannel, since I don't have much to expend my focus on. After that I see Metapsionics in my future. Lots of Metapsionics. And taking those 3 feats puts psionic body on the same level as a level 14 improved toughness. I'm sincerely hoping to not have to rely on Vigor soon. I just won't have the unique powers per day to do IT and be at all effective in combat.
The_Mess 04-03-08, 02:24 AM	Hidden Talent isn't a psionic feat. It can't be. Psionic feats require you to have power points before you can take them. Hidden talent makes you psionic, it wouldn't make much sense to require you to already be psionic.
Deathmond 04-03-08, 03:08 PM	Which is another good reason for changing it to Overchannel.
AntiDjinn 04-04-08, 12:31 AM	You may also find Focused Skill User turns out to be disappointing in play, especially for the three skills you have chosen. It is, after all, merely Skill Focus with the restriction of needing to be focused, but expanded to cover three skills. Skill Focus is never a heavy hitter, and the same with a limitation is going to be less so. Spellcraft and Psicraft are going to get you less mileage than you think: Dispel Psionics does not have the counterspell feature that Dispel Magic does. As for Concentration, at lower levels your principle use is going to be getting focused; and Focused Skill User will never help you do that. Once you are focused, if there is a Concentration check that you can't afford to fail, then expending to take 15 is more reliable than +2 on the roll. If you really want +2 on Concentration checks then just select Single-minded as your psicrystal personality; you are taking that feat anyway and the bonus will apply to all Concentration checks whether or not you are focused.
Lycanthromancer 04-04-08, 11:33 AM	If Concentration is an issue, you should try for a masterwork skill item. +2 to Concentration checks via a MW meditation crystal (MW tool cost: 55 gp). Using your psicrystal via an Aid Another check is another +2.
AntiDjinn 04-04-08, 12:22 PM	Besides which, since you are concerned enough about hit points to spend feats on it, I am going to guess that you put a good score into Con. Always a good idea since it shores up your poor Fortitude save and gives extra hit points every level. If you max out ranks in the skill, have a high Con, and take the Single-minded pet rock, then you should rarely blow the roll to get focused. And once you are focused, even having to roll for Concentration is at your option.
Deathmond 04-04-08, 05:47 PM	Actually, in play focused skill user proved to be surprisingly useful. Though, I do see how it is going to be useless in a couple levels. It actually saved me from failing a couple checks to learn spells. I can't change my choice because we had our first game, but if the game lasts I plan to grab psychic reformation. I actually did take the single-minded trait and my con is 16. All stats are: 12/16/16/16/14/12 after racials.
AntiDjinn 04-04-08, 07:02 PM	That is the beauty of Psychic Reformation: No buyer's remorse. You can use the +2 feats for the level ranges where they pay off, then ditch at the levels where your purchased ranks and items make that a drop in the bucket. Single-minded + 16 Con + max ranks means at first level you get +9 on Concentration checks. The DC to get focused is 20, so you come in at just under 50%. Within a few levels you won't even be sweating it.
Deathmond 04-04-08, 10:04 PM	What's really quite sad is that I almost failed a psicraft and a spellcraft check to learn a 0 level spell. One would have failed without the +2 bonus for my masterwork tool, and the other would have failed without my psicrystal Aiding. Spellcraft: 4 Ranks + 3 Int + 2 Tool + 2 Spellwise+ +2 Aid Another and I STILL nearly failed :( Courteous Magocracy was a 3.0 feat, so it got changed to the 3.5 Halruaa regional most like it, being Spellwise.
castlemike 04-11-08, 08:19 PM	I'd suggest the Hidden Talent feat Astral Construct for an always on psionic power independent of your limited Erudite daily usage powers.
KyussWren 04-12-08, 04:34 AM	Explain to me how Psionic Body is a flaw. It gives you bonus hp for each psionic feat you have or gain. Thats about the one part of this that doesn't make any sense.
AntiDjinn 04-12-08, 10:44 AM	He used a flaw to pay for the added slot. Otherwise, he would have more feats than would be allowed at that level. Flaws are an optional character creation rule. If the DM forgets to enforce them, then they are a free power boost. Take too many and they hurt more than the added feats help. If used correctly they are balanced; they are supposed to hinder a character almost exactly as much as the added feat helps. One thing to note for manifesters: Although flaws are traditionally thought of a being a negative feat, they are not subject to Psychic Reformation. You can reform the feats you gain, but you are stuck with your flaws. A DM might allow them to be reformed, but if a character can switch out disadvantages between adventures based on what he anticipates to be an issue, then they essentially cease to be disadvantages. Flaws that are purely mental, such as phobias, might be removed with Psychic Chiurgery, but you should either have to take a different flaw or loose a feat to stay mechanically balanced.
Deathmond 04-12-08, 08:39 PM	0.o I had never even thought of reforming the flaws! I won't do it, but that is an interesting thought. I'm planning to reform Focused Skill User into something else, because by then it will have by far passed the levels where it's actually useful (AKA: levels 1 and 2). I'll also say that Psionic Body helped a lot. We're a group of 6, with 5 of us being d4 casters/manifesters and the last guy being a Barbarian. I had as much hp as the barbarian, and actually ended up taking the majority of the damage (in fact, had I not been Elan I may have very well died without the resilience ability).