| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| dolphin4904-04-07, 09:39 PM | i read on the boards that crystal shard can be used aganist some using anti magic field but cust serv told my dm no you cant because the crystal is propelled by my pisionic energy so as soon as its in the anti magic field it stops and falls to the ground. so what other ways can i fight some using anti field |
| calronmoonflower04-04-07, 10:05 PM | Use a telekinetic or psychoportation power. Move a bolder or something over the target and let it drop. |
| SlanderPanic04-04-07, 10:08 PM | Telekinetic force your party's best melee guy over the offender, drop said fighter, deploy umbrella to avoid getting blood all over your pretty new robes. |
| RadicalTaoist04-04-07, 10:15 PM | Antimagic fields are emanations. A frigging nonmagical Tower Shield stops them. That + Burrowing Crystal Shard = up yours, sucker. |
| PhaedrusXY04-04-07, 11:37 PM | Antimagic fields are emanations. A frigging nonmagical Tower Shield stops them. That + Burrowing Crystal Shard = up yours, sucker.It takes a standard action to take full cover from a tower shield. So you'd need Schism or some other trick to pull that off. |
| Bacris04-04-07, 11:39 PM | hooray for cust serv - 100% official, 50% accurate! |
| JulesCARV04-05-07, 01:00 AM | Creation powers with instantaneous durations and calling powers are not affected by a null psionics field because the power itself is no longer in effect, only its result. Crystal Shard Metacreativity (Creation) ... Duration: Instantaneous |
| Deekin04-05-07, 01:58 AM | hooray for cust serv - 100% official, -10% accurate! FiFY. |
| Slagger the Chuul04-05-07, 07:05 AM | Creation powers with instantaneous durations and calling powers are not affected by a null psionics field because the power itself is no longer in effect, only its result. The result depends on where you're manifesting crystal shard from. Quite notably, the allowance made for instantaneous creation powers and calling powers only applies because the power is already complete (according to the description of null psionics field); in other words, if the power is not complete when it tries to affect something in the field, it would still be nullified. So, you could fire a crystal shard into a null psionics field, but you couldn't manifest it from within the field. Also, if you made an alternate version of crystal shard that targeted a creature (instead of producing a ray effect that you just happen to be able to aim at a creature), it would also be stopped by null psionics field because the ability to target a creature is an effect of the power which would be suppressed. |
| dolphin4904-05-07, 07:26 AM | The result depends on where you're manifesting crystal shard from. Quite notably, the allowance made for instantaneous creation powers and calling powers only applies because the power is already complete (according to the description of null psionics field); in other words, if the power is not complete when it tries to affect something in the field, it would still be nullified. So, you could fire a crystal shard into a null psionics field, but you couldn't manifest it from within the field. Also, if you made an alternate version of crystal shard that targeted a creature (instead of producing a ray effect that you just happen to be able to aim at a creature), it would also be stopped by null psionics field because the ability to target a creature is an effect of the power which would be suppressed. according to cust service you manifest crystal shard and shoot it ate enemy in anti field, the crystal is un affected but you are using your power to propel it your power propelling it is afffected and the crystal stops and falls to the ground because it no longer has anything propelling it |
| JulesCARV04-05-07, 09:43 AM | The result depends on where you're manifesting crystal shard from. Quite notably, the allowance made for instantaneous creation powers and calling powers only applies because the power is already complete (according to the description of null psionics field); in other words, if the power is not complete when it tries to affect something in the field, it would still be nullified. So, you could fire a crystal shard into a null psionics field, but you couldn't manifest it from within the field. Also, if you made an alternate version of crystal shard that targeted a creature (instead of producing a ray effect that you just happen to be able to aim at a creature), it would also be stopped by null psionics field because the ability to target a creature is an effect of the power which would be suppressed. In principle, I agree with you. As far as the RAW, though, I can't find anything that suggests that null psionics/antimagic fields interfere with instantaneous creation powers or spells. I'd rule that if you try to cast, say, Create Water while inside an AMF/NPF, then you fail, but if you cast Create Water outside of it, put it in a glass, and carry it into an AMF/NPF, then the water sticks around. However, it seems that by the actual rules, you can actually cast Create Water inside an AMF/NPF. I could be misreading them, I admit, but the "instantaneous creation powers aren't affected" exception doesn't seem to apply to the effects of creation powers with instantaneous duration: it seems to apply to the powers themselves. If I'm misreading the rules (and, to tell the truth, I hope that I am), please point out where I've erred. |
| SlanderPanic04-05-07, 09:45 AM | You use your power to impart the shard with momentum, yes. Once the shard leaves you, it's propelled by that momentum, not by the power that generated that momentum. Think of it like throwing a rock. Your arm imparts momentum to the rock, but, once the rock leaves your hand, your arm is no longer involved in the process. If you could, say, make a crystal shard turn corners, that implies active telekinetic control of the projectile and that'd be a different story. Customer service, in this case, is incorrect. In the end, though, your DM has made his call. It's not a call I'd agree with, but I'm not your DM. You should probably show this thread to him. He may reconsider or he may not. If he doesn't, just go with it. Just get a tower shield for your astral construct to carry, then proceed with strategies suggested above. |
| SlanderPanic04-05-07, 09:50 AM | As far as the RAW, though, I can't find anything that suggests that null psionics/antimagic fields interfere with instantaneous creation powers or spells. I'm with Slagger here. The field suppresses any manifesting done within it, which includes creation powers. If you manifest an instantaneous creation power outside the field and take the result into the field, it won't wink away. It's there to stay. |
| dolphin4904-05-07, 02:42 PM | im gonna give cust service some props i called today to speak with them about crystal shard and they admitted that they made a mistake. so u can fire crystal shard at someone in an anti field. ill give them there props for making the correction |
| Bacris04-05-07, 03:20 PM | Here's the problem - someone else may contact and get an entirely different answer. CustServ is not consistent in their rulings - even if the same question is brought up. |
| AntiDjinn04-05-07, 03:41 PM | This contradicts Cust Serve's previous ruling. Which means you probably got a different associate and the question has not popped up enough to make their FAQ. Generally the wild inconsistency only applies to new material; once a given bit of material has been in use for a while you tend to get the same answer even if it isn't a good answer. This question was a hot button even before the Comp Psi nerf. The issue is not whether or not the shard can exist in an AMF (it is an instantaneous creation effect) but whether or not it continues to be propelled in an area where supernatural effects can't extend (it is also a ray). I have tried several adjustments to handle this. Obviously, shapers would like to see the power work completely unhindered in all circumstance, but kineticists want their Null Psionics Field to be worth a 6th level discipline slot and don't want clearly psionic effects simply ignoring it. The way I have settled on: It looses its psionic propulsion when it hits the NPF but keeps its momentum. It becomes a ranged attack instead of a ranged touch attack (it is still moving fast enough to be like shooting someone with a bolt of crystal, but not like using a crystal rail gun in that it can't ignore armor). This hasn't made a lot of difference; generally the guys who can use AMF/NPF don't wear armor so their touch AC and regular AC are not far apart. |
| Psikerlord04-05-07, 06:38 PM | If antimagic field is an emanation, doesn't it turn corners, and thus bypass a tower shield? If you can use a tower shield to hide from an emanation, don't you need a further power that lets you see thru the shield, in order to attack anyone from behind it (when using it as total cover) |
| PhaedrusXY04-05-07, 06:45 PM | If antimagic field is an emanation, doesn't it turn corners, and thus bypass a tower shield? No. That would be a spread. See this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#area) for details.If you can use a tower shield to hide from an emanation, don't you need a further power that lets you see thru the shield, in order to attack anyone from behind it (when using it as total cover)You could fire wildly/blindly. |
| AntiDjinn04-05-07, 07:34 PM | Anything that moves from behind the tower shield will be subject to the emination as normal. So you can't use a tower shield then fire off Magic Missiles. You can use it in conjunction with a bull rush. I suppose you could just bash that d4 for hits wizard to death with the tower shield, but I would have to check the rules again; I am not sure if it provides cover when it is used for a bash attack (shields don't provide AC on rounds when they are used to bash). |
| rironin04-05-07, 07:48 PM | Anything that moves from behind the tower shield will be subject to the emination as normal. So you can't use a tower shield then fire off Magic Missiles. You can use it in conjunction with a bull rush. I suppose you could just bash that d4 for hits wizard to death with the tower shield, but I would have to check the rules again; I am not sure if it provides cover when it is used for a bash attack (shields don't provide AC on rounds when they are used to bash).Not sure if there's a non-magical way to damage your opponent without coming out from behind the shield.You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else. |
| dolphin4904-05-07, 07:54 PM | This contradicts Cust Serve's previous ruling. Which means you probably got a different associate and the question has not popped up enough to make their FAQ. Generally the wild inconsistency only applies to new material; once a given bit of material has been in use for a while you tend to get the same answer even if it isn't a good answer. This question was a hot button even before the Comp Psi nerf. The issue is not whether or not the shard can exist in an AMF (it is an instantaneous creation effect) but whether or not it continues to be propelled in an area where supernatural effects can't extend (it is also a ray). I have tried several adjustments to handle this. Obviously, shapers would like to see the power work completely unhindered in all circumstance, but kineticists want their Null Psionics Field to be worth a 6th level discipline slot and don't want clearly psionic effects simply ignoring it. The way I have settled on: It looses its psionic propulsion when it hits the NPF but keeps its momentum. It becomes a ranged attack instead of a ranged touch attack (it is still moving fast enough to be like shooting someone with a bolt of crystal, but not like using a crystal rail gun in that it can't ignore armor). This hasn't made a lot of difference; generally the guys who can use AMF/NPF don't wear armor so their touch AC and regular AC are not far apart. actually i got the same rep my dm spoke with and he apologized fo the error |
| glacialcat04-05-07, 08:09 PM | Well, I know you shouldn't bring real life physics into talks about fantasy gaming, but if you do want real life physics than you should know that once an object is in motion it doesn't need a force (in this case psychic energy) to propel it at all. Newton's First Law of Motion stats an object in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. You could argue that wind resistance is an outside force, but a crystal shard probably wouldn't be effected by wind resistance much. And if gravity were strong enough, it'd effect the vertical motion of it, but since gravity in this case is no stronger than gravity without an antimagic field and gravity doesn't effect horizontal motion, there is nothing stopping the shard once it enters the field. |
| Psikerlord04-05-07, 09:24 PM | In the Antimagic field description it names a couple of spells which still operate in it - wall of force, prismatic sphere, primsatic wall. A similar notation appears in the null psionics field, although no specific powers are given as examples. Anyone know which powers, if any, state in their description that they ignore a null psionics field? (or antimagic field, assuming magic-psionic transparency) |
| PhaedrusXY04-05-07, 09:44 PM | Not sure if there's a non-magical way to damage your opponent without coming out from behind the shield.If you somehow have two actions per round (Schism, etc), you could lob alchemist's fire over the top of it. Or contact poison, etc. :D |
| AntiDjinn04-05-07, 09:53 PM | Well, I know you shouldn't bring real life physics into talks about fantasy gaming, but if you do want real life physics than you should know that once an object is in motion it doesn't need a force (in this case psychic energy) to propel it at all. Newton's First Law of Motion stats an object in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. You could argue that wind resistance is an outside force, but a crystal shard probably wouldn't be effected by wind resistance much. And if gravity were strong enough, it'd effect the vertical motion of it, but since gravity in this case is no stronger than gravity without an antimagic field and gravity doesn't effect horizontal motion, there is nothing stopping the shard once it enters the field. That isn't even real life physics, it is idealized space model physics. Gravity is an unbalancing force. You have probably noticed (or maybe you didn't know this) but projectiles like bullets and arrows do not travel in a straight line for all eternity as they would in a vacuum. Instead, all objects in motion that are not kept in motion by a continuously applied force, travel in a parabolic trajectory if they are in a gravity well. This is why you don't aim directly at the bullseye in archery, but take distance and the parabolic path of the arrow into account. If the crystal shard normally travels in a straight line like a laser beam (it is a ray) then once it looses its force it should enter a parabolic trajectory. |
| Psikerlord04-06-07, 06:47 AM | What about a ring of counterspell (4,00gp, with antimagic field stored in it). Provided you are within the 10' radius when the spell if first cast by your foe, it seems to me the counterspell ring would activate and negate it. Not sure on this..? |
| ninja_bob04-07-07, 10:33 PM | If the crystal shard normally travels in a straight line like a laser beam (it is a ray) then once it looses its force it should enter a parabolic trajectory. He’s got you there. one of my friends is a pretty damn good archer (IMO) and i've seen those arrows in parabolic motion (like losing altitude if you will) I’ve also seen how a laser sight works and it’s not pointed in a directly straight line but is ever so slightly pointed down. I don't think air resistance has much effect on any projectile (or else it wouldn’t be called a projectile) the gravity would start to kick in. not that this would make much difference either I mean if it can travel a few hundred feet in the blink of an eye it’s not even worth a -1 to hit pen. Standard procedure 1) use temporal acceleration (from behind a tower shield if necessary) 2) just walk away 3) laugh internally as the try to work out were you went. also note that teleporting works as well, and (if your feeling brave) worth of note they can't use magic/psi either so: 1) just smash their face in with a big lump of metal/wood/whatever’s at hand 2) if things turn nasty bring up tower shield and manifest temporal acceleration / teleport 3) spend a turn or two healing up and then commence with the samshy smashy of the face. 4) rinse and repeat. p.s. don't have a clue about the ring of couter spell but i think that only works if it's cast on you |
| rironin04-07-07, 10:50 PM | What about a ring of counterspell (4,00gp, with antimagic field stored in it). Provided you are within the 10' radius when the spell if first cast by your foe, it seems to me the counterspell ring would activate and negate it. Not sure on this..?ninja_bob is right. A garden-variety ring of counterspelling only activates if someone casts a targeted spell on you that you've got stored in your ring. The ring of greater counterspelling from the Magic Item Compendium has a secondary function which allows you to make a dispel check (as if you've cast greater dispel magic) to counter any spell being cast, but you have to be a spellcaster capable of countering spells already and you have to burn a spell slot to do it (and it only works once per day). |
| Everdreaming04-08-07, 12:48 AM | Disregarding house rules, I think a crystal shard would enter a anti magic field, for two reasons. 1: Psionic, magic immunity. They dont affect each other at all. If that is not the rule where you play, by all means ignore it. 2: There is a concept floating around called momentum. It means when something is moving it tends to keep moving, propelled or not. |
| Bacris04-08-07, 01:10 PM | Just a minor quibble, but in 3.5, psionics and magic are considered the same. Having them interact using the "psionics is different" variant would, technically, be a house rule and not the norm :) |
| ninja_bob04-08-07, 03:50 PM | Disregarding house rules, I think a crystal shard would enter a anti magic field, for two reasons. 1: Psionic, magic immunity. They dont affect each other at all. If that is not the rule where you play, by all means ignore it. 2: There is a concept floating around called momentum. It means when something is moving it tends to keep moving, propelled or not. Also momentum is a function of acceleration and mass. Like “acceleration due to gravity” like I said gravity would start pulling it down just like it does to an arrow (which can not reach orbit if you fire it straight up on account of GRAVITY) a rocket needs constant propulsion because gravity is a constant nine point something meters per second per second acceleration to the centre of the Earth. What goes up must come down and what was flying along at a nice speed crashes and dies when and outside force pulls it to the earth. At the distance where talking this is irrelevant. If a plane in the sky runs out of fuel it doesn’t just take a ninety degree turn to point straight down and smash into the earth (unless you watch too many loony tunes) but real world physics would start to drag it down and it would eventually hit something – hard. As I said this processes starts off slow but it’s parabolic and acceleration would form an expediential increase in momentum until it reaches terminal velocity where acceleration due to gravity and air resistance balance out so it can’t get any faster. However. As constant acceleration is always expressed as a squared function falling damage should be re calculated to express the expediential increase in “OMG THE GROUND IS GETTING VERY BIG VERY FAST” My sggestions would be 10 ft no damage (I fall off stuff this high all the time and I aint dead or even hurt) 20 ft 1d6 damage 30ft 2d6 40ft 4d6 ect this is a very extreme and broken calculation (I am well aware) but I just pulled it out my *** if you ant me to calculate the possibility of a lethal fall from any height then I need to know what other forces are in effect on the subject and it’s mass and stuff. Any way the whole point of this post is to state that you are wrong. Any object of a given momentum will only continue to travel unmolested if it is NOT SUBJECT TO ANY OTHER FORCE AND ALLOWED TO MOVE FREELY. This is due to the law of physics the conservation of momentum. Conservation as in “constant or unchanging” it would have to adapt to any outside changes or forces Newtons first law An example of this is a giro-wheel thingy if you suspend a wheel in the air and get it to spin real fast it real try to keep spinning in that same direction (probably a function of the centripetal force or some such) but that is assuming that the method you used to suspend it subjects it to no OTHER forces (such as friction or GRAVITY) in this case gravity would be canceled out but the thing holding it up but I’m willing to bet that if all you did was tie it to the ceiling with string that it would stop spinning pretty sharp-ish. Also any objects that are allowed to move freely are CONSTANTLY accelerated toward each other. This means that not only are you pulled toward the earth but the earth is pulled to you (but you have sucky mass compared to a planet) en the shard is propelled (like a plane) it is CONSTANTLY applying a force (thrust) to manipulate a stupid loop-hole in aerodynamics thus making gravity sort of cancel out. But if you stop pushing it toward the guy in the field then you have no thrust. It just so happens that most physicists like to ignore the laws as much as you though and most physics questions start with sentences like “assume zero mass on object B.” or “the fiction applied to the third object is negligible.” This is one of those cases. Just because a force is so small to have no effect (your gravitational pull on the earth) doesn’t mean it ceases to exists. Now are we going to sit here and let me open the subject up to atomic physics or can we move on to something that actually matters? |
| Rhonin the Big04-08-07, 05:02 PM | Ninja_Robert, while I must congratulate you for your physics knowledge, it is clearly not needed in d&d. Newton also stated that matter cannot be created or destroyed but only manipulated, this law is clearly being broken when my psion manifests Crystal Shard. Now as for the discussion, let us bring it to psionic d&d terms. So you manifest a power to instantly create a shard of crystal, now what force are you using to get it through the null psionic zone? What makes this newly-born crystal bullet not fall to the ground as instantly as it came into creation? The answer is telekinesis. Since you are using telekinesis to propel the crystal bullet through the null psionic zone this telekinetic force would fail to cross through because the zone clearly suppresses psionic power from entering thus the crystal would fall before the emenator's feet Matrix-style. If this were not true, why can I not simply fire an energy barrage through the null psionic zone? This does not stop a shaper from putting a buncha crystal shards into quintessence, layering them within bags of holding, telekinetically moving the bag up into the air above the emenator and firing an area dispell on the bag. |
| dolphin4904-08-07, 05:27 PM | Ninja_Robert, while I must congratulate you for your physics knowledge, it is clearly not needed in d&d. Newton also stated that matter cannot be created or destroyed but only manipulated, this law is clearly being broken when my psion manifests Crystal Shard. Now as for the discussion, let us bring it to psionic d&d terms. So you manifest a power to instantly create a shard of crystal, now what force are you using to get it through the null psionic zone? What makes this newly-born crystal bullet not fall to the ground as instantly as it came into creation? The answer is telekinesis. Since you are using telekinesis to propel the crystal bullet through the null psionic zone this telekinetic force would fail to cross through because the zone clearly suppresses psionic power from entering thus the crystal would fall before the emenator's feet Matrix-style. If this were not true, why can I not simply fire an energy barrage through the null psionic zone? This does not stop a shaper from putting a buncha crystal shards into quintessence, layering them within bags of holding, telekinetically moving the bag up into the air above the emenator and firing an area dispell on the bag. if im driving a car 100 miles an hour and instantly slam on the brakes does the car stop right away. no it keeps going because of the momentum you picked up. so in theorywhen the crystal reaches the anti field the momentum should carry it the rest of the way its only 10 feet. but i think its more like an arrow. your tk is not on the crystal you just use your tk to fire the crystal like a bow does an arrow. |
| AntiDjinn04-08-07, 06:18 PM | The crystal should not stop when it hits a null psionics field, but neither should it continue its straight line path. It should still be able to hit for damage, but as a ranged attack, not ranged touch attack. Consider: Why is Crystal Shard a ranged touch attack in the first place. It isn't like a blast of heat or electricity that will conduct right through armor. If it is because it is going so fast that it simply punches through armor as though it isn't there then you should not even have to roll for damage; anything that can punch through adamantine full plate due to force and velocity alone should automatically kill whatever it hits. Even modern anti-tank weapons don't match this kind of power; they penetrate armor but do not simply ignore it. I think Crystal Shard ignores armor because if its precision. It is a ray, so aiming it is like aiming a laser pointer; if you can point at the opening in your targets armor they you can shoot it. So hen it hits the null psionics field it stops being a straight line attack (a ray) but continues as a projectile (enters a parabolic trajectory). This means armor should count and a monk with deflect arrows should have a chance to deflect it. The guy inside that null psionics field is manifesting a six level discipline-specific power with a specific purpose that has already been nerfed to hell; he should at least get partial defense against a 1st level ray. |
| calronmoonflower04-08-07, 07:26 PM | Now as for the discussion, let us bring it to psionic d&d terms. So you manifest a power to instantly create a shard of crystal, now what force are you using to get it through the null psionic zone? What makes this newly-born crystal bullet not fall to the ground as instantly as it came into creation? The answer is telekinesis. Since you are using telekinesis to propel the crystal bullet through the null psionic zone this telekinetic force would fail to cross through because the zone clearly suppresses psionic power from entering thus the crystal would fall before the emenator's feet Matrix-style. If this were not true, why can I not simply fire an energy barrage through the null psionic zone? Think of it more like a firearm works rather than a rocket. The force that propels it occurs when you use the power and from then on it travels under its own momentum. |
| sciguy9804-08-07, 10:22 PM | Ninja_Robert, while I must congratulate you for your physics knowledge, it is clearly not needed in d&d. Newton also stated that matter cannot be created or destroyed but only manipulated, this law is clearly being broken when my psion manifests Crystal Shard. Actually, the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy is not being broken by the psion. His mental energy is being directly converted into a shard and the force required to propel it. ^_^ |
| Rhonin the Big04-09-07, 04:17 PM | Think of it more like a firearm works rather than a rocket. The force that propels it occurs when you use the power and from then on it travels under its own momentum. If momentum itself is keeping it going, and not telekinesis, like a bullet from a gun both of the following should be true (and it is false): 1) It certainly would be higher than level1, a level1 psion/wilder does not have the ability to fire off a crystal bullet and just let it ride the winds of momentum. 2) Its range would be long, in order for a fine crystalline object to aquire enough speed for momentum itself to carry it towards an enemy it certainly shouldnt fall to the ground at close range. Momentum = speed x mass, mass on that crystal is fine so speed needs to be very high. According to the Rules As Between the Lines (RABTL) it would need a jumpstart, it would need a telekinetic rocket boost. That boost would be instantly sapped of rocket fuel upon contact with abovementioned null psionics zone. Actually, the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy is not being broken by the psion. His mental energy is being directly converted into a shard and the force required to propel it. ^_^ And null psionics zones disrupt the manipulation of mental energies and halts mental energies previously manipulated (energy nukes). If my mental energy is being converted into a big 20d6 hunk of crystal (which is where the augment comes from, not the speed but the mass) than it would either dissipate like an astral construct or halt its path until the duration of the zone expires. If this were false, why can I not just fire Tsubaki through the null psionics zone? Both of you implode, no hard feelings ok? |
| Lycanthromancer04-10-07, 12:01 PM | So hen it hits the null psionics field You're firing chickens. With your mind. :D Oh, and I'm making a clarification for this in my rework. When fired into a Null Psionics Field, it becomes a ranged projectile attack, not a ranged touch attack, for as long as it's inside the field. Better? |
| skyranger1404-10-07, 12:15 PM | Why would an astral construct dissipate? Antimagic Field clearly states that it has no effect on constructs created outside the field as long as they are self supporting. Remember that astral contructs are not summonned creatures. |
| Bacris04-10-07, 12:32 PM | They are still the result of a power with a duration, not a permanent creation. It doesn't dissipate, it is simply suppressed. Astral constructs and summoned creatures wink out if they enter a null psionics field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the power that is maintaining the construct or summoned creature. Since anti-magic field was written pre-XPH and magic / psionic transparency, the two are virtually the same (AMF / NPF), I don't think it's really a stretch to say that astral constructs would follow the same rules. |
| skyranger1404-10-07, 12:51 PM | Ahhh, thanks for clearing that up Bacris. Well, I guess we're back to using Astral Constructs to lob giant rocks into Anti Magic/Null Psi fields.....the question now is: where do you find Masterwork giant rocks? |
| Eldritch_Lord04-10-07, 06:11 PM | I've also had this powers-in-a-null-psi-field argument with someone, and I have a few quick questions about that: Is there any particular passage in any book that explicitly states that instantaneous conjuration/metacreativity spells/powers can go through antimagic or null psionic fields? If so, where is it, and if not, how can you imply/infer that this is true? |
| Slagger the Chuul04-10-07, 07:00 PM | The relevant sentence of null psionics field says: Creation powers with instantaneous durations and calling powers are not affected by a null psionics field because the power itself is no longer in effect, only its result. In other words, the items produced by those powers don't go away in a null psionics field any more than the burns from a fire-type energy ray, because the power is already over. But, if the null psionics field overlaps another power while that power is being manifested (even if it is a calling power or instantaneous creation), it could interfere because the power isn't over at that time. The main question with crystal shard is whether the power is still in effect when the shard physically enters the null psionics field, or already complete as soon as the shard begins to move away from the manifester. According to a strict reading of the game rules, the delivery of damage happens at exactly the same instant the power is manifested, which means it would be blocked, but a logical interpretation of the effect outside of pure game mechanics could have the power being completed before the shard actually enters the field, with the instantaneous duration merely being the game's way of representing an effect that happens very quickly. |
| Eldritch_Lord04-10-07, 07:08 PM | Is there a similar sentence in the antimagic field description I've been missing, or is the similarity assumed through magic/psionic transparency? Edit--Never mind; I just checked the SRD and there is, indeed, a similar line. |
| BloodSpill04-11-07, 12:33 PM | If I was building a laser-gun in D&D I'd use the ray mechanic too. It shouldn't be restricted to just supernatural effects. |
| AntiDjinn04-12-07, 12:02 AM | A laser ray is a beam effect; it fires in a straight line rather than following a parabolic trajectory. If you applied the ray descriptor to such a weapon, then supernatural or not it would still be subject to the rules that govern rays: The spell Deflect Ray would work against it even if it is a tech effect. The spell does not say "arcane ray" or even "magical ray" it says "ray" so having the descriptor alone is enough to make it vulnerable to all mechanics that apply vs. that descriptor. |
| ninja_bob04-12-07, 12:54 AM | I apologise for my last post as it was miss-leading and I believe it was interpreted incorrectly. I was actually talking against science as well as trying to make a point. I am the biggest of all sinners in this respect but don’t you think it’s time we put the physics away. As I said before it doesn’t matter. You can’t put science and magic in the same sentence (well maybe in THIS sentence). In a world of Magic, magic obeys the laws of magic. In the world of Physics, particles obey the laws of physics. I really don’t see why the vice should be true for the verse. I would say that if this situation comes up the DM should just go with his heart and wing it after all it says to make you own rules right in the rule book. And now that I’ve said that about laws of magic. I’m reversing my stance on this and saying that the AMF stops the magic projectile. It doesn’t matter HOW it stops it. It just does. For Christ’s sake its magic, do I have to draw you a diagram? I’ve made crystal in a lab before and it takes a long long time even with a catalyst so for one to just spring up at the click of a finger? Clearly magic. So even if the magic is all finished being magic-y the “non-shall-pass” magic wall means non-shall-pass. If you couldn’t tell from my last post science means a lot to me. But if people stop being able to imagine a scenario that simply just doesn’t make sense (a fat Santa down a thin chimney) then we have grown up too much and possibly too fast. And quite frankly you can dress it up in all the vocabulary you want but I just don’t want to live in that world. I would much rather live in a world where just once a week people gather around a table as friends and check all there problems and hang-ups at the door and just roll some dice. It doesn’t have to make sense. Hell anything can look like a waste of time to someone on the outside. The point is that even if magic only exists on paper, some people need magic just as much as I need science. Who am I (and who are you) to judge where the lines have to be drawn? Why can’t we just open ourselves up to possibilities of simply not understanding something? To me not understanding something as a child was the same as magic. I would see some guy on stage with a big hat and a cape and he CUT THIS FRIGGIN’ WOMAN IN TWO!!! Right in front of my eyes not even in a box IN FRONT OF MY EYES!!! Now can you tell me how she didn’t die or even bleed without using the words magic? I don’t understand it therefore it can’t be real? Or I don’t get it. It must be magic. Call me a dreamer but I know which world I’d rather live in. And the world needs dreams to give it a soul. :) |
| Rhonin the Big04-12-07, 01:34 PM | You ****ing rock ninja_bob! If my sig was open to other people I would put that there! |
| ArcTan04-12-07, 06:53 PM | Ninja_Robert, while I must congratulate you for your physics knowledge, it is clearly not needed in d&d. Newton also stated that matter cannot be created or destroyed but only manipulated, this law is clearly being broken when my psion manifests Crystal Shard. Well, he didn't actually. The First Law of Thermodynamics doesn't come until quite a bit after Newton, in the 19th century -- before then it wasn't clear that kinetic energy "lost" to heat really wasn't lost. But whatever. Sure, it's magic, but it's a lot easier to assume that magic does what it needs to do to make the magic effect happen rather than completely replacing the laws of physics wherever it goes. I mean, you're still making an attack roll with the crystal shard -- it's not fundamentally different from shooting someone with anything else. (Ranged touch doesn't mean anything in regards to how the shard *moves* -- it just means that it pierces right through any armor or shields when it hits). Regardless, the RAW say that it works in an AMF, and the best solutions are the ones that don't require you to change the RAW because of your interpretation of "what's really happening". Yeah, it's annoying, just as the arcane Orb spells are annoying, but with crystal shards it's really not a big deal. Now as for the discussion, let us bring it to psionic d&d terms. So you manifest a power to instantly create a shard of crystal, now what force are you using to get it through the null psionic zone? What makes this newly-born crystal bullet not fall to the ground as instantly as it came into creation? The answer is telekinesis. Since you are using telekinesis to propel the crystal bullet through the null psionic zone this telekinetic force would fail to cross through because the zone clearly suppresses psionic power from entering thus the crystal would fall before the emenator's feet Matrix-style. If this were not true, why can I not simply fire an energy barrage through the null psionic zone? Because the *energy* disappears in the null psionics zone. However, I can use telekinetic thrust to throw something into a null psionics zone. That's the whole thing. You just trashed Newton's Laws of Motion without thinking about what they really mean. In real life, it *doesn't matter* where the energy to get something moving came from. Kinetic energy is kinetic energy. If I throw a baseball, the baseball keeps moving even if you come up behind me and kill me afterwards. If I fire a rocket, the rocket launcher could vanish into thin air afterwards -- it doesn't matter, the rocket's still moving. Telekinesis *launches* the shard at the field, but it doesn't need to keep on pushing at the shard. It throws the shard and afterwards the shard keeps going on its own. The shard itself has some pretty weird properties, yeah, like being able to penetrate things "by magic", but because it's an Instantaneous Metacreativity power the shard is defined as "nonmagical", just like the arcane Orbs. And I have an easier time believing in a nonmagical crystal shard than a nonmagical orb of sound. Kinetic energy mysteriously vanishing from a moving object and making it fall to the ground would be its *own* kind of magic, and a pretty powerful one at that. Not something that would happen if you just "took magic away". This does not stop a shaper from putting a buncha crystal shards into quintessence, layering them within bags of holding, telekinetically moving the bag up into the air above the emenator and firing an area dispell on the bag. Er, yeah it does, because that, unlike shooting a shard into an NPF, is stupid and broken. Also, you can't "save" a crystal shard when you make it -- the power requires that you aim and fire it, after which it shatters and vanishes. You can't hold it and smooth quintessence over it, which is what the quintessence power says you have to do to preserve something. Moreover, quintessence doesn't get dispelled by an area dispel. It's an Instantaneous Metacreativity power just like the crystal shards. Once you make it, it's there, and can't be dispelled -- it just has a small chance of evaporating away on its own. Also, you'd have to do some really clever tricks to be able to telekinetically drop something so it was right in range for an area dispel at the right time. Also, if you suppress the bag of holding, all that happens is that the "interdimensional interface" is closed -- i.e. the items you put in the bag are just *gone* and the bag appears to be an empty, mundane bag until the suppression wears off. This is assuming the shards you put in there haven't already ruptured the bag and made the shards disappear. Finally, falling objects ARE NOT AN AUTOHIT. I'm so sick of players coming up with this. Just because they put the rules for falling object *damage* separately from rules about attack rolls doesn't mean that an object falling at you automatically hits you and damages you. Check out the rules for traps in the DMG. Falling objects count as an ATTACK and take an ATTACK ROLL. So, interestingly, the rules of D&D prevent any individual step of your plan from working. At all. |
| ArcTan04-12-07, 06:58 PM | I would say that if this situation comes up the DM should just go with his heart and wing it after all it says to make you own rules right in the rule book. And now that I’ve said that about laws of magic. I’m reversing my stance on this and saying that the AMF stops the magic projectile. It doesn’t matter HOW it stops it. It just does. For Christ’s sake its magic, do I have to draw you a diagram? I’ve made crystal in a lab before and it takes a long long time even with a catalyst so for one to just spring up at the click of a finger? Clearly magic. So even if the magic is all finished being magic-y the “non-shall-pass” magic wall means non-shall-pass. Why? It makes just as much sense the other way. I would much rather live in a world where just once a week people gather around a table as friends and check all there problems and hang-ups at the door and just roll some dice. It doesn’t have to make sense. Hell anything can look like a waste of time to someone on the outside. The point is that even if magic only exists on paper, some people need magic just as much as I need science. Er, uh, whatever. Look, the easiest way to adjudicate the rules is that Instantaneous Conjurations explicitly ignore things like AMFs (and NPFs). That's what the rules say, all this dodgy fake-science crap aside. What's the big deal? It doesn't unbalance anything -- the crystal shard powers are still only okay powers. Null psionics field still destroys the vast majority of cool tactics a Psion uses against you. At least this way there's something you can do. Who am I (and who are you) to judge where the lines have to be drawn? Why can’t we just open ourselves up to possibilities of simply not understanding something? When did this become some kind of after-school special, and when did D&D magic/psionics become some kind of Symbol of the Right to Dream as opposed to a mechanic for winning battles in a wargame? Sheesh. To me not understanding something as a child was the same as magic. I would see some guy on stage with a big hat and a cape and he CUT THIS FRIGGIN’ WOMAN IN TWO!!! Right in front of my eyes not even in a box IN FRONT OF MY EYES!!! Now can you tell me how she didn’t die or even bleed without using the words magic? I don’t understand it therefore it can’t be real? Or I don’t get it. It must be magic. Call me a dreamer but I know which world I’d rather live in. And the world needs dreams to give it a soul. :) For cripes' sake. It's just as cool and "dreamy" for the crystal to go through the field as for it to not go through the field. This is a rules adjudication, not some kind of philosophical war between the Dreamers and the Mundanes. I mean, what the hell? Houserule that the crystal shard explodes into a shower of rainbow sparks and bestows lasting peace upon the world, if you want, if that feeds your "right to dream". It doesn't matter when it comes to the RULES of PLAYING A GAME. |
| Slagger the Chuul04-12-07, 07:32 PM | Regardless, the RAW say that it works in an AMF, and the best solutions are the ones that don't require you to change the RAW because of your interpretation of "what's really happening". Yeah, it's annoying, just as the arcane Orb spells are annoying, but with crystal shards it's really not a big deal. Technically speaking, because crystal shard is a ray effect, that "ray" must extend into the null psionics field in order to hit its target. At the time of firing this ray, the power is not complete, and the allowance null psionics field makes for instantaneous creation powers only applies because the power is complete. Since the power isn't complete at the time the ray extends into the null psionics field , it's not mechanically possible to shoot someone inside with a crystal shard. In fact, it's by considering the possibility that it could enter the field that we go against the RAW. However, I can use telekinetic thrust to throw something into a null psionics zone. Here's a good example of a different approach; in this case, the power's effect only extends to the object being targeted. No part of the power's direct effect needs to enter the null psionics field, so you can throw existing objects in without difficulty. You could even use telekinetic thrust to throw a sliver of crystal left over from a prior manifestation of crystal shard into the field. Also, you can't "save" a crystal shard when you make it -- the power requires that you aim and fire it, after which it shatters and vanishes. You can't hold it and smooth quintessence over it, which is what the quintessence power says you have to do to preserve something. Nothing apart from the ruling of your own Dungeon Master stops you from collecting the crystal produced by crystal shard and using it for something else. It's not clearly defined what physical properties the crystal has, but as the result of an instantaneous creation power, it definitely doesn't just vanish once the power is over. |
| ArcTan04-12-07, 08:12 PM | Technically speaking, because crystal shard is a ray effect, that "ray" must extend into the null psionics field in order to hit its target. At the time of firing this ray, the power is not complete, and the allowance null psionics field makes for instantaneous creation powers only applies because the power is complete. Since the power isn't complete at the time the ray extends into the null psionics field , it's not mechanically possible to shoot someone inside with a crystal shard. In fact, it's by considering the possibility that it could enter the field that we go against the RAW. I can see the argument either way, although to me "ray" is just a way to talk about how the spell is aimed, not a description, flavor or mechanics-wise, of when the spell is "complete". (By flavor, there is no "ray", just a shard of crystal zooming at the target.) Nothing apart from the ruling of your own Dungeon Master stops you from collecting the crystal produced by crystal shard and using it for something else. It's not clearly defined what physical properties the crystal has, but as the result of an instantaneous creation power, it definitely doesn't just vanish once the power is over. Well, okay, but then that crystal would just be crystal -- it wouldn't be magically propelled by a psionic power, and wouldn't have the property that it can make ranged touch attacks for 1d6 damage. It'd be like any other falling pieces of crystal. Thing is that while the flavor is vague, the crystal shard powers are described as launching "ectoplasmic" crystals, and ectoplasm is described as evaporating if the ectoplasmic object or creature loses its shape. |
| BloodSpill04-13-07, 08:01 AM | Are we quite, quite sure that rays cannot enter antimagic fields? Then the issue is resolved pretty simply: Crystal shard is in error. A ray effect cannot be an instantaneous creation effect. A instantaneous creation effect cannot also be a ray. Why? Because they imply contradictory things. A ray is negated by an antimagic field. An instantaneous creation effect is not negated by an antimagic field. Change crystal shard to either a non-creation effect or a non-ray effect. (Ranged touch is the next best thing) |
| ArcTan04-13-07, 07:04 PM | Are we quite, quite sure that rays cannot enter antimagic fields? Then the issue is resolved pretty simply: Crystal shard is in error. A ray effect cannot be an instantaneous creation effect. A instantaneous creation effect cannot also be a ray. Why? Because they imply contradictory things. A ray is negated by an antimagic field. An instantaneous creation effect is not negated by an antimagic field. Not necessarily. If I try to create something *inside an AMF* then it doesn't work, because no spells at all can be targeted inside an AMF. I can't use create water to make a puddle of water in the zone of an AMF, even if I could make it outside the AMF and take a glass of it into the AMF with no problems. The question is whether the crystal shard is created outside the AMF and fired into it or whether it somehow depends on a "ray" existing inside the AMF to work. |
| Slagger the Chuul04-13-07, 07:12 PM | An instantaneous creation effect is not negated by an antimagic field. As I've mentioned a few times, that's not completely true. An instantaneous creation can be negated during the instant that the power is in effect. As described in null psionics field, instantaneous creation powers only work because the power is already complete. For the instant in which the creation is forming, it is subject to negation. Flavourwise, I would guess that the crystal is still forming even as it flies through the air towards the target (or at least it hasn't completely solidified), and if it hits a null psionics field, it falls apart before the last part of its flight. You know, if you wanted to be a bastard DM, you could read the power as only propelling a crystal. Even though it's a creation power, it never actually says that you create a crystal. :) |
| s4ndm4n04-14-07, 09:02 AM | disintergrate the field,via the spell (or power) |
| ninja_bob04-17-07, 05:25 PM | Well, he didn't actually. The First Law of Thermodynamics doesn't come until quite a bit after Newton, in the 19th century -- before then it wasn't clear that kinetic energy "lost" to heat really wasn't lost. When you’re quoting from many different people at the same time can you PLEASE put who originally said it. I don’t have a clue who you talking too after the first paragraph. And it’s irrelevant when something was scientifically discovered. Gravity still worked the same before we knew about it.. You ****ing rock ninja_bob! If my sig was open to other people I would put that there! Many thanks. I don’t think I’ve ever had any one sig me before. When did this become some kind of after-school special, and when did D&D magic/psionics become some kind of Symbol of the Right to Dream as opposed to a mechanic for winning battles in a wargame? Because DnD is not a war game. War games have about 300,000 tiny plastic figures on the table at once. I would hate to have to roll that many attack rolls in DnD. I don’t have a clue what RAW stands for so I’m not going to touch that one. But as I said before: AMF/ NPF blocks rays, that is to the best of my knowledge. I don’t stay awake all night memorising them. I don’t really spend a lot of time trying to fix all these little quirks that keep popping up. Not because I need the right to dream ;) but because I am just one man. And I have to do somethings that are a normal part of life. I don’t pretend to have all the answers. Or even all the questions. But I’ll give my answers when asked. And to me it simply looks better on paper if the field that is meant to stop ray effects stops ray effects. Call me crazy if you will but I calls ‘em like I sees ‘em. Until next time. And keep on dreamin’ :cool: |
| saidin011104-17-07, 11:47 PM | okay, the way I've always seen it is that ray describes the path taken by the effect, not the "area" of the effect, also, instantaneous means that the effect is part of the action required to cast/manifest it, not that it necessarily happens in the instant you take the action, with most rays, the effect is still being artificially maintained for the entire time it takes to go from caster/manifester to target, the best arguement that crystal shard is still being manipulated is that theoreticly, a ray can be fired through one creature at another one, assuming you can still see the target creature also, someone mentioned that a AMF/NPF is intended to stop rays, where does it mention that? It stops magic/psionics, not a type of attack that happens to generally be magic/psionic in nature, if say I had some sort of feat that let me treat crossbow attacks as rays, an AMF/NPF would have zero effect on those crossbow bolts that attack as rays, this is the same basic arguement used for crystal shard, the power seems to imply that the shard is created and then propelled, the speeding crytal would then be the result of the effects of a power, not the active effect of a power, the fact that it is a ray does not mean that it must exist along the entirity of the ray at the same exact point in time, it just must traverse that ray within a fraction of the action used to manifest and apply the effects/results of the power one should also note that the query of this thread was intended to surmise the RAW (Rules As Written) outcome of the aforementioned situation, and what the developers intended the results of the rules to be, or RAI, so the conclusions should either be that the power works as written, or the power fails to penetrate the AMF/NPF, converting the power into a ranged attack is beyond the current scope of the written rules, therefore it is not an "official" option, though it is a very good compromise houserule for those that believe the power is still acting on the shard also, it appears that since the shard is ectoplasmic in nature, the instant it hits, its form is destabilized and it would then begin to rapidly (within a round or less) evaporate back to the Astral Plane |
| calronmoonflower04-18-07, 01:13 AM | I don’t have a clue what RAW stands for so I’m not going to touch that one. RAW Rules As Written |
| BloodSpill04-18-07, 07:42 AM | As I've mentioned a few times, that's not completely true. An instantaneous creation can be negated during the instant that the power is in effect. As described in null psionics field, instantaneous creation powers only work because the power is already complete. For the instant in which the creation is forming, it is subject to negation. Yes, I apologise for my basic assumption that we were talking about a successfully manifested power. (and no I don't know if I'm being sarcastic anymore.) |
| Slagger the Chuul04-18-07, 09:03 AM | okay, the way I've always seen it is that ray describes the path taken by the effect, not the "area" of the effect The "effect" line of crystal shard says "ray", which means that for the purpose of game rules, the power's direct effect is a psionic ray, and thus anything that interrupts that ray interrupts the successful use of the power. the power seems to imply that the shard is created and then propelled, the speeding crytal would then be the result of the effects of a power, not the active effect of a power, the fact that it is a ray does not mean that it must exist along the entirity of the ray at the same exact point in time, it just must traverse that ray within a fraction of the action used to manifest and apply the effects/results of the power That is true in a certain sense, since the crystal is created (which we assume, even though the power never explicitly states that it createsa crystal, only that it propels one :) ) and then travels along the path of the ray. From the perspective of game rules, however, the traveling crystal is part of the ray and thus cannot be propelled into any area where the ray does not exist. It is a potentially valid interpretation of this possibility that you could create the crystal and launch it along the path of the ray, only to have it fall uselessly onto the ground inside the field where the ray runs out. The only important part is that the null psionics field interrupts the ray and thus stops the damaging effect of the power which is being aimed into it. The exact description of what happens is up to you. also, someone mentioned that a AMF/NPF is intended to stop rays, where does it mention that? It doesn't. Rays are stopped by null psionics field because they're the effect of a power. A nonpsionic ray could pass through unimpeded. also, it appears that since the shard is ectoplasmic in nature, the instant it hits, its form is destabilized and it would then begin to rapidly (within a round or less) evaporate back to the Astral Plane Although metacreativity powers in general are described as drawing upon astral ectoplasm for creation, this does not mean that items so created must be unstable, must collapse back into ectoplasm and evaporate when damaged, or even that they must still be considered ectoplasm after they are created. Instantaneous creations are formed by psionic power, but do not rely on it for their existence afterwards. The crystal created by crystal shard (if we assume that it does create crystal :D ) is exactly as solid and real as a similar crystal that you dig out of the ground. We are never told what the physical properties of this crystal are (it could be as hard as diamond or fragile as thin ice), but that's a completely different issue. |
| saidin011104-18-07, 11:47 AM | That is true in a certain sense, since the crystal is created (which we assume, even though the power never explicitly states that it createsa crystal, only that it propels one :) ) and then travels along the path of the ray. From the perspective of game rules, however, the traveling crystal is part of the ray and thus cannot be propelled into any area where the ray does not exist. Actually, the RAW states that any Metacreativity power with an instantaneous duration is unaffected by the field so long as it is manifested from outside the field, the only contention I can think of to this is arguing whether manifesting involves just the manifester, or includes the length of the ray as well It doesn't. Rays are stopped by null psionics field because they're the effect of a power. A nonpsionic ray could pass through unimpeded. yes, I did put an example in my post, but thanks for seconding the opinion Although metacreativity powers in general are described as drawing upon astral ectoplasm for creation, this does not mean that items so created must be unstable, must collapse back into ectoplasm and evaporate when damaged, or even that they must still be considered ectoplasm after they are created. Instantaneous creations are formed by psionic power, but do not rely on it for their existence afterwards. The crystal created by crystal shard (if we assume that it does create crystal :D ) is exactly as solid and real as a similar crystal that you dig out of the ground. We are never told what the physical properties of this crystal are (it could be as hard as diamond or fragile as thin ice), but that's a completely different issue. so, I would assume that if the crystal does stay around, it must be equivalent to common, unrefined crystals that would be pretty much valueless, though they could indeed have somewhat different physical properties, such as hardness, though nothing extreme enough to make them "valueable," otherwise, this power could turn into a fairly monotonous affair any time the party's psion thought they wanted some more gold, of course the crystal's properties and natural equivalent could be randomized each time the power is manifested, but that would simply be waaaaaaayyyyyyy too much work for the game to flow the way it's supposed to |
| Slagger the Chuul04-18-07, 10:59 PM | Actually, the RAW states that any Metacreativity power with an instantaneous duration is unaffected by the field so long as it is manifested from outside the field, the only contention I can think of to this is arguing whether manifesting involves just the manifester, or includes the length of the ray as well That's the question of whether or not the power is still in effect when the crystal enters the field. Since the ray enters the field and the crystal travels along the ray's path (and is the ray for game purposes), at least the ray component of the power must still be in effect, and can be blocked by a null psionics field, preventing successful delivery of the crystal. so, I would assume that if the crystal does stay around, it must be equivalent to common, unrefined crystals that would be pretty much valueless, though they could indeed have somewhat different physical properties, such as hardness, though nothing extreme enough to make them "valueable," otherwise, this power could turn into a fairly monotonous affair any time the party's psion thought they wanted some more gold, of course the crystal's properties and natural equivalent could be randomized each time the power is manifested, but that would simply be waaaaaaayyyyyyy too much work for the game to flow the way it's supposed to Without any further information, I'd assume (at least for my own games) that it has the physical properties of mundane crystal (page 182 of the Expanded Psionics Handbook), and isn't much more valuable than a common rock. |
| Lycanthromancer04-19-07, 07:41 PM | I'm taking the 'Ray' descriptor out of my revision. Bleh. Rule-suck-city. |
| Slagger the Chuul04-19-07, 11:09 PM | It's not exactly related to that, but now I'm wondering if psionics should have a "Telekinetic" descriptor for all the effects that use telekinesis. "Metacreativity (Creation)" doesn't really describe what this power does very well, since half the power is propelling the crystal at the target. |
| BloodSpill04-19-07, 11:16 PM | Telekinesis? Nah I'm just creating this shard in a different frame of reference. |
| itwasntme04-19-07, 11:44 PM | i know this was mentioned kinda early but Tower Shield grants you Cover yes ... But you can ignore that cover ... It Grants it From Ranged Attacks and says you must use an action to plant it from giveing you cover in Said Direction meaning person could just go *takes 5 ft step over hear* haha im out of said Shild direction i attack! ... Its good agest Ranged Attacks not melee you can counter it with Melee attacks though its nice still at times ... Melee+Range are useoly the better ways to go |