First Campaign with Psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

First Campaign with Psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cuindless
03-03-08, 08:08 PM I'm not sure if this belongs here or in the DMing forums, but since this is psionic-centric, I figured this is the right place.

I'm preparing a new campaign using the 3.5 rules. This campaign will take place in Eberron, which is very psionic heavy. None of my other campaigns have included psionics, so I'm a little leery. I've read the SRD. I have XPH and the new CP. I haven't purchased the two 3rd party sourcebooks that Tempest suggests, but I will.

What I'd like is for people to submit their #1 recommendation for running a campaign with psionics. It doesn't matter what it is. If I should do one thing right in this psionic campaign, what would it be in your opinion?
Lycanthromancer
03-03-08, 08:27 PM Understand the psionics rules. This is the #1 reason why people cry that 3.5 psionics is broken.

Primarily: you cannot spend more power points on a given power manifestation than your manifester level.

Beyond that, realize that magic doesn't have to be able to do everything that psionics can do, and vice-versa, and that psionics in general is considerably less powerful than magic in many areas, even including novas (which psionics is infamous for).
Anodai
03-03-08, 08:28 PM If you needed to do one thing right (besides following the rules {especially the above} and reading the psionic FAQ {stickied[by tempest stormwind]}) it would be to treat magic and psionics as compatible systems as the XPH suggests. making them incompatible as per the rules variant in the XPH is a big mistake. It makes things insanely overcomplicated for a system you haven't used before.
CrimsonDeath
03-03-08, 10:17 PM Do not let Psionic NPCs use all their PP in one encounter. If your players fight an enemy Psion, cut his PP in half before he puts up his all-day or half-day buffs. This represents the fact that he's holding some PP in reserve for later encounters. (As such, if he has any teleportation powers, it probably wouldn't be out of the question to let him use those after he "runs out" of PP allocated to that fight. But he should probably think of retreating before then.)
AntiDjinn
03-03-08, 10:35 PM Do not let Psionic NPCs use all their PP in one encounter. If your players fight an enemy Psion, cut his PP in half before he puts up his all-day or half-day buffs. This represents the fact that he's holding some PP in reserve for later encounters. (As such, if he has any teleportation powers, it probably wouldn't be out of the question to let him use those after he "runs out" of PP allocated to that fight. But he should probably think of retreating before then.)
Seconded. If you expect your PC's to manage their resources as though they will have to deal with multiple challenges throughout the day, then don't allow your NPC's the luxury of being fresh at the top of each battle and confident in the knowledge that they won't face any challenges beyond the party. Just because you, as the DM, know that you won't be throwing another encounter at the bad guy later in the day, does not mean the NPC knows this. For a mid-day encounter figure the opposition has been using his resources (to scry the oncoming party for example) so he will be short a few points, charges off items, etc. I do generally allow psionic NPC's to start an encounter focused unless there is some reason they shouldn't be (just woke up, just expended during a fight, etc.).
Many DMs have showed up to complain here about PC novas, but really players are more vulnerable to such tricks being used against them by the DM.
CrimsonDeath
03-04-08, 12:31 AM Just because you, as the DM, know that you won't be throwing another encounter at the bad guy later in the day, does not mean the NPC knows this.

But who says the NPC doesn't face another encounter later that day? Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It just isn't the focus of the game.
AntiDjinn
03-04-08, 01:05 AM You mean the NPC might face an encounter that is completely unknown to the DM? A hypothetical encounter may or may not ever happen: If the DM has no further use for that NPC then it basically ceases to exist after the PC encounter, if the party even leaves it alive. The DM rarely sits and rolls dice for all encounters that are happening with every NPC over the entire world. But it is unfair of the DM to play his NPCs as though they are aware of this fact and taking it into account.
The DM knows that the power points the NPC would have remaining will be of no further use, but supposedly the NPC does not know this and should not reasonably be thinking that way. No NPC or monster should be attacking the party and thinking: "I am a one-shot. No point in having points or charges left over."
All the balancing factors that keep player novas in check only temper the DM's actions if he chooses to play fair with his party. The PC's can't choose to force 4 to 5 encounters per day on each manifesting NPC the way the DM can to PCs. So the DM has to make a conscious effort to balance each encounter as reasonable for its CR and make his NPCs act and react like characters who live in the world instead of like MOBs who just spawned.
CrimsonDeath
03-04-08, 07:42 AM You mean the NPC might face an encounter that is completely unknown to the DM?
Essentially, that's what I'm saying. The DM only knows about things the PCs might eventually have to deal with. If they fight a guy, he escapes, and then that guy happens to fight a band of Dwarves later, but he can win without much trouble (because he has about half his PP left), the PCs don't need to know about that particular fight, so the DM doesn't need to know about it either.
The_Shaman
03-04-08, 10:31 AM Do not let Psionic NPCs use all their PP in one encounter. If your players fight an enemy Psion, cut his PP in half before he puts up his all-day or half-day buffs. This represents the fact that he's holding some PP in reserve for later encounters. (As such, if he has any teleportation powers, it probably wouldn't be out of the question to let him use those after he "runs out" of PP allocated to that fight. But he should probably think of retreating before then.)

I understand the idea, but I think it would be the same for mage NPCs. After all, they also shine best if they can blow their entire arsenal on one single encounter.
AntiDjinn
03-04-08, 10:41 AM I understand the idea, but I think it would be the same for mage NPCs. After all, they also shine best if they can blow their entire arsenal on one single encounter.
The prep work is a little different. If the PCs are raiding the tower of a wizard who has been home puttering in his basement all day, it is relatively unlikely he has already cast his Meteor Swarm or Time Stop. He may have used a few lower level slots. You may alter the spells he has memorized if he was just planning on a day of research. You just need to make choices about what spells he took, which metamagics he applied, and what he has already cast. With a manifester all powers remain available, the only questions are how many points has he already used, how many will he want to hold back for anticipated use, and is he focused when the encounter starts. If the character is an erudite, you also need to decide how many unique power slots he has already allocated and for which specific powers. If you throw a mid or late-day encounter manifester who has a full power pool, has used no charges off his items, has not used any unique powers, is focused, and throws everything he has got at the party (without reason for a suicide charge) then you are using an encounter that will be more difficult than its CR would suggest.
hogarth
03-04-08, 01:09 PM I understand the idea, but I think it would be the same for mage NPCs. After all, they also shine best if they can blow their entire arsenal on one single encounter.
Just to give a concrete example, a level 8 psion (24 int, 86 pp) with the feat Overchannel can use his "best power" (a 10 pp overchanneled power) 8.6 times before being completely exhausted of power points. On the other hand, a level 8 sorcerer (24 cha; more similar to a psion than a wizard, IMO) can use his best spell 4 times, but then he can use his second-best spell 7 times, his third-best spell 8 times and his fourth-best spell 8 times. So if you have an NPC who you don't expect to last more than 8 rounds, it's easy to have the psion blow his entire arsenal and it's just about impossible for the sorcerer to do the same.
CrimsonDeath
03-08-08, 12:14 PM I understand the idea, but I think it would be the same for mage NPCs. After all, they also shine best if they can blow their entire arsenal on one single encounter.

Except that a Sorcerer or Wizard can't blow his entire arsenal in one encounter. If he really works at it, he can cast the top 1/3 of his spells (which is probably about as good-- although a lot of those spell slots will be spent generating extra actions). A Psion, without much effort, can drain his entire allotment of PP in well under a minute, probably under five rounds. Thanks to Temporal Acceleration, Schism, Quicken Power + Psionic Meditation, and a number of very useful powers which are Swift actions or become Swift actions with an augment, a mid-level Psion can toss out three powers per round, all at maximum strength (or better with Overchannel).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cuindless 03-03-08, 08:08 PM	I'm not sure if this belongs here or in the DMing forums, but since this is psionic-centric, I figured this is the right place. I'm preparing a new campaign using the 3.5 rules. This campaign will take place in Eberron, which is very psionic heavy. None of my other campaigns have included psionics, so I'm a little leery. I've read the SRD. I have XPH and the new CP. I haven't purchased the two 3rd party sourcebooks that Tempest suggests, but I will. What I'd like is for people to submit their #1 recommendation for running a campaign with psionics. It doesn't matter what it is. If I should do one thing right in this psionic campaign, what would it be in your opinion?
Lycanthromancer 03-03-08, 08:27 PM	Understand the psionics rules. This is the #1 reason why people cry that 3.5 psionics is broken. Primarily: you cannot spend more power points on a given power manifestation than your manifester level. Beyond that, realize that magic doesn't have to be able to do everything that psionics can do, and vice-versa, and that psionics in general is considerably less powerful than magic in many areas, even including novas (which psionics is infamous for).
Anodai 03-03-08, 08:28 PM	If you needed to do one thing right (besides following the rules {especially the above} and reading the psionic FAQ {stickied[by tempest stormwind]}) it would be to treat magic and psionics as compatible systems as the XPH suggests. making them incompatible as per the rules variant in the XPH is a big mistake. It makes things insanely overcomplicated for a system you haven't used before.
CrimsonDeath 03-03-08, 10:17 PM	Do not let Psionic NPCs use all their PP in one encounter. If your players fight an enemy Psion, cut his PP in half before he puts up his all-day or half-day buffs. This represents the fact that he's holding some PP in reserve for later encounters. (As such, if he has any teleportation powers, it probably wouldn't be out of the question to let him use those after he "runs out" of PP allocated to that fight. But he should probably think of retreating before then.)
AntiDjinn 03-03-08, 10:35 PM	Do not let Psionic NPCs use all their PP in one encounter. If your players fight an enemy Psion, cut his PP in half before he puts up his all-day or half-day buffs. This represents the fact that he's holding some PP in reserve for later encounters. (As such, if he has any teleportation powers, it probably wouldn't be out of the question to let him use those after he "runs out" of PP allocated to that fight. But he should probably think of retreating before then.) Seconded. If you expect your PC's to manage their resources as though they will have to deal with multiple challenges throughout the day, then don't allow your NPC's the luxury of being fresh at the top of each battle and confident in the knowledge that they won't face any challenges beyond the party. Just because you, as the DM, know that you won't be throwing another encounter at the bad guy later in the day, does not mean the NPC knows this. For a mid-day encounter figure the opposition has been using his resources (to scry the oncoming party for example) so he will be short a few points, charges off items, etc. I do generally allow psionic NPC's to start an encounter focused unless there is some reason they shouldn't be (just woke up, just expended during a fight, etc.). Many DMs have showed up to complain here about PC novas, but really players are more vulnerable to such tricks being used against them by the DM.
CrimsonDeath 03-04-08, 12:31 AM	Just because you, as the DM, know that you won't be throwing another encounter at the bad guy later in the day, does not mean the NPC knows this. But who says the NPC doesn't face another encounter later that day? Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It just isn't the focus of the game.
AntiDjinn 03-04-08, 01:05 AM	You mean the NPC might face an encounter that is completely unknown to the DM? A hypothetical encounter may or may not ever happen: If the DM has no further use for that NPC then it basically ceases to exist after the PC encounter, if the party even leaves it alive. The DM rarely sits and rolls dice for all encounters that are happening with every NPC over the entire world. But it is unfair of the DM to play his NPCs as though they are aware of this fact and taking it into account. The DM knows that the power points the NPC would have remaining will be of no further use, but supposedly the NPC does not know this and should not reasonably be thinking that way. No NPC or monster should be attacking the party and thinking: "I am a one-shot. No point in having points or charges left over." All the balancing factors that keep player novas in check only temper the DM's actions if he chooses to play fair with his party. The PC's can't choose to force 4 to 5 encounters per day on each manifesting NPC the way the DM can to PCs. So the DM has to make a conscious effort to balance each encounter as reasonable for its CR and make his NPCs act and react like characters who live in the world instead of like MOBs who just spawned.
CrimsonDeath 03-04-08, 07:42 AM	You mean the NPC might face an encounter that is completely unknown to the DM? Essentially, that's what I'm saying. The DM only knows about things the PCs might eventually have to deal with. If they fight a guy, he escapes, and then that guy happens to fight a band of Dwarves later, but he can win without much trouble (because he has about half his PP left), the PCs don't need to know about that particular fight, so the DM doesn't need to know about it either.
The_Shaman 03-04-08, 10:31 AM	Do not let Psionic NPCs use all their PP in one encounter. If your players fight an enemy Psion, cut his PP in half before he puts up his all-day or half-day buffs. This represents the fact that he's holding some PP in reserve for later encounters. (As such, if he has any teleportation powers, it probably wouldn't be out of the question to let him use those after he "runs out" of PP allocated to that fight. But he should probably think of retreating before then.) I understand the idea, but I think it would be the same for mage NPCs. After all, they also shine best if they can blow their entire arsenal on one single encounter.
AntiDjinn 03-04-08, 10:41 AM	I understand the idea, but I think it would be the same for mage NPCs. After all, they also shine best if they can blow their entire arsenal on one single encounter. The prep work is a little different. If the PCs are raiding the tower of a wizard who has been home puttering in his basement all day, it is relatively unlikely he has already cast his Meteor Swarm or Time Stop. He may have used a few lower level slots. You may alter the spells he has memorized if he was just planning on a day of research. You just need to make choices about what spells he took, which metamagics he applied, and what he has already cast. With a manifester all powers remain available, the only questions are how many points has he already used, how many will he want to hold back for anticipated use, and is he focused when the encounter starts. If the character is an erudite, you also need to decide how many unique power slots he has already allocated and for which specific powers. If you throw a mid or late-day encounter manifester who has a full power pool, has used no charges off his items, has not used any unique powers, is focused, and throws everything he has got at the party (without reason for a suicide charge) then you are using an encounter that will be more difficult than its CR would suggest.
hogarth 03-04-08, 01:09 PM	I understand the idea, but I think it would be the same for mage NPCs. After all, they also shine best if they can blow their entire arsenal on one single encounter. Just to give a concrete example, a level 8 psion (24 int, 86 pp) with the feat Overchannel can use his "best power" (a 10 pp overchanneled power) 8.6 times before being completely exhausted of power points. On the other hand, a level 8 sorcerer (24 cha; more similar to a psion than a wizard, IMO) can use his best spell 4 times, but then he can use his second-best spell 7 times, his third-best spell 8 times and his fourth-best spell 8 times. So if you have an NPC who you don't expect to last more than 8 rounds, it's easy to have the psion blow his entire arsenal and it's just about impossible for the sorcerer to do the same.
CrimsonDeath 03-08-08, 12:14 PM	I understand the idea, but I think it would be the same for mage NPCs. After all, they also shine best if they can blow their entire arsenal on one single encounter. Except that a Sorcerer or Wizard can't blow his entire arsenal in one encounter. If he really works at it, he can cast the top 1/3 of his spells (which is probably about as good-- although a lot of those spell slots will be spent generating extra actions). A Psion, without much effort, can drain his entire allotment of PP in well under a minute, probably under five rounds. Thanks to Temporal Acceleration, Schism, Quicken Power + Psionic Meditation, and a number of very useful powers which are Swift actions or become Swift actions with an augment, a mid-level Psion can toss out three powers per round, all at maximum strength (or better with Overchannel).