Flayerspawn Psychic help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Flayerspawn Psychic help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
zmanred01
01-12-08, 06:50 AM I'm going to surprise my NPCs with a Flayerspawn Psychic and was looking through CPH and noticed that the book stated a few times that you could augment Mind Blast for higher DCs, but nowhere did it mention the exact PP to DC ratio in the section for the Flayerspawn Psychic or the feat page with Illithid Blast (p61)

I am assuming that it would be 2 PP = +1 DC as a majority of psionics go? If anyone could confirm this it'd be quite helpful.

Thanks in advance
Fatalis_902
01-12-08, 10:31 AM How the deuce do you surprise NPCs? Everything you bring to the table has to go through your DM first, so his NPCs will not be terribly surprised. Alright, done mocking, and I can see you're new here, so I'll give you a break and assume you're the DM, and are planning to surprise your Players with this thing.

Now the advice part. Don't. Use. The. Flayerspawn. Psychic. It's horrid. It doesn't work, flavor or mechanics-wise, and is a sub-par choice. Illithid Blast doesn't work because of the way it's written, which you seem to have noticed. If you insist on using it, then your 2 PP/ +1 DCsounds reasonable, but you should assign a base cost for the ability. But there is no real way to confirm, so just go with what seems reasonable, which that does.
The_Mess
01-12-08, 11:37 AM I used the Flayerspawn psychic, reflavored as an experiment the Illithids were doing rather than "heritage", which makes no sense. They were trying to create a disease to turn villages into soldiers for their war with the Gith. It was pretty effective. One of the players caught it. Fun! It was an online game, though, and we played pretty fast and loose with the rules, so the fact that the rules as written don't work wasn't such a big disadvantage.

As far as fixing the feat goes, note that it says "You can channel pp into...", which is to say it has a base cost, not just an augment. I'd treat it as a psychic blast power and just add it to powers known like an Expanded Knowledge feat. (I think it's basically a stunning blast, I don't have the book in front of me.)
zmanred01
01-12-08, 03:45 PM How the deuce do you surprise NPCs? Everything you bring to the table has to go through your DM first, so his NPCs will not be terribly surprised.

Actually, I used Schism on myself and the two halves just aren't getting along and talking anymore, or could have just been that it was early in the morning when I posted :p Thanks for catching my mistake though lol

But I'm throwing this class in there just for a fun encounter. We have a Paladin of Freedom in our campaign so I highly doubt this NPC would get half of its powers off. More going to be used for plot progression to budge them towards the Underdark.
Fatalis_902
01-12-08, 07:14 PM Actually, I used Schism on myself and the two halves just aren't getting along and talking anymore, or could have just been that it was early in the morning when I posted :p Thanks for catching my mistake though lol

But I'm throwing this class in there just for a fun encounter. We have a Paladin of Freedom in our campaign so I highly doubt this NPC would get half of its powers off. More going to be used for plot progression to budge them towards the Underdark.

That makes sense on both counts. And don't be offended by the fact that I mock you. I mock everyone who makes a mistake.
AwsomeSauce
01-13-08, 04:53 PM As said above, don't use FSP. It's a piece of Chaos Beast dung.

You'd be better off teaching the NPC Ultrablast or something similar and giving him Illithid feats. One of my players has a lot of Illithid feats, and he kicks major drow butt.
Lia The Sun Elf Wizard
01-26-08, 01:06 PM To get the illithid blast feat you need to be at least at level 5 (as 3rd level powers, you need to be at level 5 too). So i'm almost sure the base power points you have to spend is 5 (another power which is similar to the illithid blast is the PSIONIC blast, im almost sure the author wanted to say PSIONIC blast instead of MIND blast, but in the description text of the psionic blast doesn't have an augmented effect to raise the DC by 1). BUT you can raise the DC by 1 of the most telepathic powers spending 2 more power points. So i think the correct would be base power point cost: 5 and raising the DC by 1 for each 2 another power points when you manifest the power (remembering you can't spend more power points than your manifester level.). So, the final DC would be: 10 + 1/2 of your HD + cha modifier + 1 for every 2 power points you spend when you manifest this power. If a moderator see this message, s/he could ask the author of the complete psionic to confirm my thought. Thanks!
jbsaff
01-26-08, 03:29 PM Mind Blast is a spell-like ability for the Mindflayer in the MM. The psionic mind flayer in the XPH provides some typical powers known to use instead of the sorceror, but does not list an alternative for mind blast.

The flayer-spawn psychic gets the Illithid Blast feat, which grants a mind blast like that of a mind flayer. It seems more likely that the authors simply left out the number of power points and augment options than for them to have gotten confused about what the mind flayer's signature disabling ability is.

That being said, your point about using Psionic Blast as the base power is as good a solution as any I have seen. At least then the power's DC will improve as you level up.
Lia The Sun Elf Wizard
01-26-08, 03:44 PM If my memory is correct (though i'm NOT sure), in AD&D (2nd edition) the psionic blast was called psionic mind blast. Another fact is that you can just get the illithid blast feat in the 5th MANIFESTER level, if you notice some other feats, you can just get them when you can manifest them. So if 5th manifester level is the minimum level which you can manifest the power of this feat, the base cost is 5 (cause you can just spend 5 power points to manifest a power in the 5th manifester level.)
And all 3rd level powers (which you only get in the 5th manifester level) have the base cost 5. So i'm 99.9% sure the base cost of the illithid blast is 5.
CrimsonDeath
01-26-08, 04:47 PM If my memory is correct (though i'm NOT sure), in AD&D (2nd edition) the psionic blast was called psionic mind blast.
And there was a whole verision of psionics between then and now, with ample opportunity to get the names of things straightened out.

Another fact is that you can just get the illithid blast feat in the 5th MANIFESTER level, if you notice some other feats, you can just get them when you can manifest them.
But then, there are other feats that aren't quite so tidy. Characters can qualify for Metamorphic Transfer at level 5, but it's not actually usable until level 7 when Metamorphosis becomes available. On the other side, you can qualify for Power Specialization and Psionic Meditation at level 4, but no psionic class actually gets a feat then.

So i'm 99.9% sure the base cost of the illithid blast is 5.
But many of us are not.
jbsaff
01-26-08, 04:51 PM So i'm 99.9% sure the base cost of the illithid blast is 5.

Unfortunately, that doesn't answer the question of how many power points can be channeled into the mind blast. Are the channeled power points used to get the base effect, or does it have augments? DC raises or additional rounds of stun? Nobody knows for sure. And given that attention has turned to the new edition, it seems unlikely that anyone will worry too much about giving an official response.
Lia The Sun Elf Wizard
01-26-08, 05:12 PM Well, i play here spending 5 power points as base cost and adding 2 more power points for each DC you want to increase, it's perfectly balanced. About the how many power points you can spend... the complete psionic says it's always best to use the most you can, so there's not a limit of how many you can spend (remembering that you can't spend more points than your manifester level). So, a Illithid blast manifested with 15 power points (you must be a manifester of 15th level for it) would have a DC of 10 + 1/2 half of your HD + cha modifier + 5. Try to play that in practice and you will see the final DC is perfect balanced for a 15th level story (another fact is that a 15th story won't make you a 15th manifester, since there are levels you don't advance as manifester when you get the FlayerSpawn prestige class.) And no, you can't augment this blast to get extra rounds, the book doesn't say you can spend them to do this effect. Try to play like that and you'll see it's completely balanced.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zmanred01 01-12-08, 06:50 AM	I'm going to surprise my NPCs with a Flayerspawn Psychic and was looking through CPH and noticed that the book stated a few times that you could augment Mind Blast for higher DCs, but nowhere did it mention the exact PP to DC ratio in the section for the Flayerspawn Psychic or the feat page with Illithid Blast (p61) I am assuming that it would be 2 PP = +1 DC as a majority of psionics go? If anyone could confirm this it'd be quite helpful. Thanks in advance
Fatalis_902 01-12-08, 10:31 AM	How the deuce do you surprise NPCs? Everything you bring to the table has to go through your DM first, so his NPCs will not be terribly surprised. Alright, done mocking, and I can see you're new here, so I'll give you a break and assume you're the DM, and are planning to surprise your Players with this thing. Now the advice part. Don't. Use. The. Flayerspawn. Psychic. It's horrid. It doesn't work, flavor or mechanics-wise, and is a sub-par choice. Illithid Blast doesn't work because of the way it's written, which you seem to have noticed. If you insist on using it, then your 2 PP/ +1 DCsounds reasonable, but you should assign a base cost for the ability. But there is no real way to confirm, so just go with what seems reasonable, which that does.
The_Mess 01-12-08, 11:37 AM	I used the Flayerspawn psychic, reflavored as an experiment the Illithids were doing rather than "heritage", which makes no sense. They were trying to create a disease to turn villages into soldiers for their war with the Gith. It was pretty effective. One of the players caught it. Fun! It was an online game, though, and we played pretty fast and loose with the rules, so the fact that the rules as written don't work wasn't such a big disadvantage. As far as fixing the feat goes, note that it says "You can channel pp into...", which is to say it has a base cost, not just an augment. I'd treat it as a psychic blast power and just add it to powers known like an Expanded Knowledge feat. (I think it's basically a stunning blast, I don't have the book in front of me.)
zmanred01 01-12-08, 03:45 PM	How the deuce do you surprise NPCs? Everything you bring to the table has to go through your DM first, so his NPCs will not be terribly surprised. Actually, I used Schism on myself and the two halves just aren't getting along and talking anymore, or could have just been that it was early in the morning when I posted :p Thanks for catching my mistake though lol But I'm throwing this class in there just for a fun encounter. We have a Paladin of Freedom in our campaign so I highly doubt this NPC would get half of its powers off. More going to be used for plot progression to budge them towards the Underdark.
Fatalis_902 01-12-08, 07:14 PM	Actually, I used Schism on myself and the two halves just aren't getting along and talking anymore, or could have just been that it was early in the morning when I posted :p Thanks for catching my mistake though lol But I'm throwing this class in there just for a fun encounter. We have a Paladin of Freedom in our campaign so I highly doubt this NPC would get half of its powers off. More going to be used for plot progression to budge them towards the Underdark. That makes sense on both counts. And don't be offended by the fact that I mock you. I mock everyone who makes a mistake.
AwsomeSauce 01-13-08, 04:53 PM	As said above, don't use FSP. It's a piece of Chaos Beast dung. You'd be better off teaching the NPC Ultrablast or something similar and giving him Illithid feats. One of my players has a lot of Illithid feats, and he kicks major drow butt.
Lia The Sun Elf Wizard 01-26-08, 01:06 PM	To get the illithid blast feat you need to be at least at level 5 (as 3rd level powers, you need to be at level 5 too). So i'm almost sure the base power points you have to spend is 5 (another power which is similar to the illithid blast is the PSIONIC blast, im almost sure the author wanted to say PSIONIC blast instead of MIND blast, but in the description text of the psionic blast doesn't have an augmented effect to raise the DC by 1). BUT you can raise the DC by 1 of the most telepathic powers spending 2 more power points. So i think the correct would be base power point cost: 5 and raising the DC by 1 for each 2 another power points when you manifest the power (remembering you can't spend more power points than your manifester level.). So, the final DC would be: 10 + 1/2 of your HD + cha modifier + 1 for every 2 power points you spend when you manifest this power. If a moderator see this message, s/he could ask the author of the complete psionic to confirm my thought. Thanks!
jbsaff 01-26-08, 03:29 PM	Mind Blast is a spell-like ability for the Mindflayer in the MM. The psionic mind flayer in the XPH provides some typical powers known to use instead of the sorceror, but does not list an alternative for mind blast. The flayer-spawn psychic gets the Illithid Blast feat, which grants a mind blast like that of a mind flayer. It seems more likely that the authors simply left out the number of power points and augment options than for them to have gotten confused about what the mind flayer's signature disabling ability is. That being said, your point about using Psionic Blast as the base power is as good a solution as any I have seen. At least then the power's DC will improve as you level up.
Lia The Sun Elf Wizard 01-26-08, 03:44 PM	If my memory is correct (though i'm NOT sure), in AD&D (2nd edition) the psionic blast was called psionic mind blast. Another fact is that you can just get the illithid blast feat in the 5th MANIFESTER level, if you notice some other feats, you can just get them when you can manifest them. So if 5th manifester level is the minimum level which you can manifest the power of this feat, the base cost is 5 (cause you can just spend 5 power points to manifest a power in the 5th manifester level.) And all 3rd level powers (which you only get in the 5th manifester level) have the base cost 5. So i'm 99.9% sure the base cost of the illithid blast is 5.
CrimsonDeath 01-26-08, 04:47 PM	If my memory is correct (though i'm NOT sure), in AD&D (2nd edition) the psionic blast was called psionic mind blast. And there was a whole verision of psionics between then and now, with ample opportunity to get the names of things straightened out. Another fact is that you can just get the illithid blast feat in the 5th MANIFESTER level, if you notice some other feats, you can just get them when you can manifest them. But then, there are other feats that aren't quite so tidy. Characters can qualify for Metamorphic Transfer at level 5, but it's not actually usable until level 7 when Metamorphosis becomes available. On the other side, you can qualify for Power Specialization and Psionic Meditation at level 4, but no psionic class actually gets a feat then. So i'm 99.9% sure the base cost of the illithid blast is 5. But many of us are not.
jbsaff 01-26-08, 04:51 PM	So i'm 99.9% sure the base cost of the illithid blast is 5. Unfortunately, that doesn't answer the question of how many power points can be channeled into the mind blast. Are the channeled power points used to get the base effect, or does it have augments? DC raises or additional rounds of stun? Nobody knows for sure. And given that attention has turned to the new edition, it seems unlikely that anyone will worry too much about giving an official response.
Lia The Sun Elf Wizard 01-26-08, 05:12 PM	Well, i play here spending 5 power points as base cost and adding 2 more power points for each DC you want to increase, it's perfectly balanced. About the how many power points you can spend... the complete psionic says it's always best to use the most you can, so there's not a limit of how many you can spend (remembering that you can't spend more points than your manifester level). So, a Illithid blast manifested with 15 power points (you must be a manifester of 15th level for it) would have a DC of 10 + 1/2 half of your HD + cha modifier + 5. Try to play that in practice and you will see the final DC is perfect balanced for a 15th level story (another fact is that a 15th story won't make you a 15th manifester, since there are levels you don't advance as manifester when you get the FlayerSpawn prestige class.) And no, you can't augment this blast to get extra rounds, the book doesn't say you can spend them to do this effect. Try to play like that and you'll see it's completely balanced.